ToEasy Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 They seemed to be pretty good at the genocide thing at the end of The Great Hyperspace War. Well I think that was just the republic military but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Alyria Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) They seemed to be pretty good at the genocide thing at the end of The Great Hyperspace War. You mean the War they would have lost had the Sith not been nice enough to stage a coup in the middle of the fighting giving the Republic the opportunity to sweep in and destroy the Sith ships that were shooting at each other instead of the Republic? I argue that the Sith almost succeeded in wiping themselves out due to their own thirst for power. Edited May 25, 2012 by Lady_Alyria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velaran Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 You mean the War they would have lost had the Sith not been nice enough to stage a coup in the middle of the fighting giving the Republic the opportunity to sweep in and destroy the Sith ships that were shooting at each other instead of the Republic? I argue that the Sith almost succeeded in wiping themselves out due to their own thirst for power. And I'd argue that, should the Republic have been more efficient, they would have wiped the Sith from the face of the galaxy, racially and culturally. Also, the only person to blame for the war and the coup was Naga Sadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordegrus Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 The point of sith culture is that conflict drives progress.Nowhere is mentioned that everyone is killing everyone just to prove something.There are laws that are againts murder of course. So you see there are restrictions of what you can do,sith are not mindless psychos that kill each other left and right all the time. Also conflict doesn't have to be connected with physical conflict that involves killing.There are many types of conflict. One example are the business practises of capitalism.Conflict is not nesseserily evil. Another major factor of sith culture is that the best rewards are those that you achieve yourself,which can look evil to some people = for example not helping a person in need,because if he is not strong enough to help himself,he deserves his condition.Sith belive that if you help him ,you will weaken him.That is not nesseserily evil. Sith do not take social darwinism to the extreme,but borrows some ideas. I am talking about the sith empire/nation in this era. Later,Rule of Two makes the sith into a secret religious order and the situtation is different there. This is very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Also, if Lord Praven is canonized as C, he would also be an exception. He's definitely not evil. Actually no... Because only Light Side actions are ever canonized by Lucas Arts, in the Jedi Knight storyline: Lord Praven becomes a Jedi Padawan and later a Knight. He's not a Light Side Sith, he's a Sith who turned from the Sith and became a Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Actually no... Because only Light Side actions are ever canonized by Lucas Arts, in the Jedi Knight storyline: Lord Praven becomes a Jedi Padawan and later a Knight. He's not a Light Side Sith, he's a Sith who turned from the Sith and became a Jedi. Fair enough. How about Ke'leth Ur from the Dark Temple? Any word on him in Canon yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Fair enough. How about Ke'leth Ur from the Dark Temple? Any word on him in Canon yet? Nope. No official word yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velaran Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) Nope. No official word yet. Erm... What? What do you mean "No offiicial word?" We have all the word we need in-game. Edited May 25, 2012 by Velaran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 His philosophy is much closer to Jedi philosophy than a Sith's. I think even living members of the Empire remember him as a heretic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elykw Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I myself have a sith jugernaught and i like to take the dark side options simply cause its fun. But I think only some sith are truly evil like darth baras or dark council members most are just slaves to the dark side such as asajj ventres or savage opress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmySpy Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I think this question is why I enjoy playing on the Empire so much. It is clear that there are many Sith individuals who are evil (Zhorrid, Jadus, Baras?) But there are also some who are less sadistic. I think that their culture really favors the behavior of the more menacing Sith; the strong rule the weak and the strongest can do whatever they want really. They are able to treat others as trash because to them they are not even people. I enhoy playing a Light Sided Sith, a person who strives for power and achievement, but feels that it is better to get there with the support of others instead of the fear of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordegrus Posted May 29, 2012 Author Share Posted May 29, 2012 I think this question is why I enjoy playing on the Empire so much. It is clear that there are many Sith individuals who are evil (Zhorrid, Jadus, Baras?) But there are also some who are less sadistic. I think that their culture really favors the behavior of the more menacing Sith; the strong rule the weak and the strongest can do whatever they want really. They are able to treat others as trash because to them they are not even people. I enhoy playing a Light Sided Sith, a person who strives for power and achievement, but feels that it is better to get there with the support of others instead of the fear of others. So it depends on the characteristics of the person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldisper Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) For those asking the question here are some quotes to discuss from episode 3 anakin/vader "from my point of view the Jedi are evil." obi-wan " then you truly are lost" I believe the answer the question whether sith are evil, as well as the redemption of vader at the end of episode six, is yes Edited May 31, 2012 by eldisper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane_Ren Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Evil is all about motive, doing something bad because its instinct or simply because you dont know any better isnt evil. Knowing your motives are bad and directing it through knowledge and intent IS evil. Sith are well aware they are evil, their power source requires it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACLucius Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 If there is one thing I believe in, it is that of logic. Logically, as our entire universe is made up of opposites to create a balance, there must be absolute good and evil. Everything is either good or evil, though to varying degrees. I am an absolutist, but I do not think we know yet what those absolutes are. So, maybe the Sith are evil, or maybe they are good. Either way, we do not know until we find out what those absolutes are, which will probably never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Alyria Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 If there is one thing I believe in, it is that of logic. Logically, as our entire universe is made up of opposites to create a balance, there must be absolute good and evil. Everything is either good or evil, though to varying degrees. I am an absolutist, but I do not think we know yet what those absolutes are. So, maybe the Sith are evil, or maybe they are good. Either way, we do not know until we find out what those absolutes are, which will probably never happen. No way are the Sith good, even if there are an absolute good and evil that exist outside of human perception (which I don't believe to be true) the words "good" and "evil" are man-made, and they are made to describe certain abstract concepts. Even if there was a "true good" it would not fall under what we consider evil because we are the ones that make the phrasing. "Absolute evil" would still be what we call evil even if we were able to understand the concept perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratty Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 It's not only Star Wars where this conflict occurs. I was reading this thread and it actually made me think about Babylon 5: the conflict between the Shadows and the Vorlons. Both of those empires believed in their own opposing philosophies. The Shadows believed that conflict and aggression pushed people to strive to become stronger and by fighting and surviving the ones who survived would be able to build a strong civilisation that would weed out the weak. The Vorlons believed that wisdom and enlightenment were the path to attaining the strength to build a strong civilisation. In the end, there is good and evil, light and dark everywhere including within ourselves. Most people have their limits and if the appropriate situations and stimuli presents itself could easily make people act in a different manner. It's all a matter of follwing a path you believe in. In a world of complete openness and equality at the end of the day people will still be people and attrocities will still happen. For some, they believe that in order to control the people and make sure they tow the line they must be subjugated and forced to live a certain way. Do the ends justify the means? Sometimes people may perceive it as necessary to utilise fear as a tool for good. Take an example of police forces. There are times when people feel it's ok to act in a certain manner on the streets in certain situations such as during riots or protests that involve hurting others because they don't perceive the police forces as a threat due to the fact that police forces have to work within the constraints of laws and regulations while those attempting to face off against police choose not to abide by such things. The police forces have to use reasonable force in extreme situations and for some people they are allowed to get away with performing criminal activities without an adequate punishment as the police are simply forced to stand for lengths of time having things thrown at them. If more extreme measures were used by police then those people attempting to do criminal behaviour could potentially become more hesitant if they knew that causing trouble could easily lead to them getting shot or maybe they wouldn't care. This could potentially be seen as a means to an end that is beneficial for people if it encourages people to not commit crimes out of fear but, at the same time, it's also possible that innocents may get caught in the middle just like in any other war but this could also be seen potentially as a beneficial sacrifice by some for the greater good of the collective. It's all about the mind set you want to create within people. Sometimes it may be evident that using fear as a tool to inspire people to act in a certain way could potentially be perceived as a good thing. If the Sith want to build a strong empire by utilising fear to control and manipulate others then surely it could be seen as beneficial to people to have a strong empire. This sort of question could lead to going round in circles in many ways because we all have qualities that can be perceived as inherently evil or inherently good. We've probably all done things that we could categorise in to each category even if it was only something extremely minor. But it also leads to questions rising about the Jedi. Annakin is a great example of how Jedi teachings can turn people away. Annakin was a good person but because he felt a sense of conflict between his feelings and the Jedi teachings, which the Jedi offered no real help, support or understanding of it beyond "That's not the Jedi way" it's hardly surprising he was so easily manipulated in to joining the Dark Side. Even playing my Sith Assassin, I had a dialogue with Ashara, where she actually agreed that peace was a lie like the Jedi code says because the Jedi are so focused on big picture stuff that they lose sight of the subtle machinations going on under their noses that others would feel obliged to act upon if they were aware of it. Even in KOTOR 2, I loved playing the exiled Jedi who went to war because he felt it was the right thing to do to follow Revan in to war. He wanted to act where the Jedi decided it was not in their interests to act. Because of it many Jedi followed Revan because they believed that it would be a good thing to fight in order to protect others. Yet the Jedi classified them all as traitors for choosing to act in the interests of saving numerous lives. Could that be seen as evil that the Jedi in that situation chose not to act to help others? So many contradictions. In my opinion both sides have their pros and cons because both sides are extremes. As we see in real life what happens with extreme beliefs and philosophies where people from both sides of the extremes can become so focused on their own extreme ideals that they lose sight of everything else. By losing sight of what matters both Jedi and Sith can be doing more harm by constantly implying that their extreme ideals are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACLucius Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 No way are the Sith good, even if there are an absolute good and evil that exist outside of human perception (which I don't believe to be true) the words "good" and "evil" are man-made, and they are made to describe certain abstract concepts. Even if there was a "true good" it would not fall under what we consider evil because we are the ones that make the phrasing. "Absolute evil" would still be what we call evil even if we were able to understand the concept perfectly. You have to choose that either there are absolutes for good and evil (which you don't believe), or that good and evil are relative and therefore the Sith are good in their own right, just as the Jedi would be evil according to the same perspective. You can't have it both ways, saying there is no absolute good and evil but then calling someone evil, without creating a fallacy. As for the definitions, good and evil are simply, in the context this subject puts them in, defined as morally right and morally wrong, and those are the concepts being debated. So, unless you can define what is morally right or wrong with certainty, then you cannot say the Sith are not good. The only absolute that can be given is that in George Lucas' mind, they are evil. Again though, that requires that he knows the true definition of good and evil in order to make that judgement. Otherwise, it comes back to being relative to each individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluerodian Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Here's how my Sith views it: Good and evil are subjective words created by limited minds too scared to accept the necessities of enforcing order in the face of overwhelming chaos within the universe. If sacrifices must be made, then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velaran Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Here's how my Sith views it: Good and evil are subjective words created by limited minds too scared to accept the necessities of enforcing order in the face of overwhelming chaos within the universe. If sacrifices must be made, then so be it. Sooo.... Your Sith is pretty much Jacen then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Latency Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Yeah, there are evil. They are so bad, The had to make a rule that only 2 of them could exist in the whole universe or they would destroy themselves. Something is wrong with your group if you can't gather in mass without killing each other off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACLucius Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Yeah, there are evil. They are so bad, The had to make a rule that only 2 of them could exist in the whole universe or they would destroy themselves. Something is wrong with your group if you can't gather in mass without killing each other off. You have completely missed the point of the rule of two. The rule of two was created in the first place because what was always intended was for the apprentice to take the place of the master, proving he or she was stronger than the master. What instead would happen was several apprentices would team up to take down the master, then only to have one take the position of the master, but being much weaker than the master was. With the rule of two though, in order for the apprentice to become the master, he must surpass in power not only his own master, but the power of each master before, as the current master is going to be more powerful than all before. This fact is why Darth Sidious was the most powerful Sith to ever exist up to that point, he had to surpass the power of every master before himself in order to kill his own. This ensures that the Sith continue to grow more powerful rather than grow weaker, as they did when apprentices would unite to take down their master. The rule of two is Darwinism at it's best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZayneDraay Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Can we just say that it's up to your point of view? I do not think this topic will ever be settled by ANYBODY. The fact is SOME sith see themselves as doing good, others know they're doing evil. It's a case-by-case scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmthethird Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Can we just say that it's up to your point of view? I do not think this topic will ever be settled by ANYBODY. The fact is SOME sith see themselves as doing good, others know they're doing evil. It's a case-by-case scenario. many tyrants see them self as doing good. history sees them differently though, a sith might think ruling over the galaxy with a iron choke hold, keeps the civilians in check thus makes the galaxy a better place. but 2 points on this 1) there would be no rebellion, if the galaxy was really a better place 2) the end does not justify the means. its funny, ppl asking are the sith evil. yes yes yes. its like arguing that Mr punch is not a wife beater, and the crocodile didn't steal the sausages. if some1 had started an "is the empire evil" thread, that would have given something that is worth a good debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Yeah, there are evil. They are so bad, The had to make a rule that only 2 of them could exist in the whole universe or they would destroy themselves. Something is wrong with your group if you can't gather in mass without killing each other off. Okay. I can only say one thing in response to this. LULZ. You're right something is definitely WRONG with you if you keep trying to murder everyone. ROTFLMFAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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