Problems with the Prequels

[Mordegrus]

Why would the Jedi discover it? It's a programmed order, put into their mind when they were made.

 

Can't the Jedi read the minds of people?

Edited May 19, 2012 by Mordegrus

[Captyellowbeard]

Well, it just means that LucasArts, impressively, ruined our hopes and dreams for the revalation of the child version of Darth Vader, and messed up three movies in a row (must be a World Record).

 

Go out and buy the adult novel books of star wars , there's lots i could post a link to give you all the names but all your answers are there.

[Slowpokeking]

Can't the Jedi read the minds of people?

 

Not always.

[Mordegrus]

If the Jedi could be brought down with cloned soldiers,

Why couldn't they be destroyed by the old Sith Empire?

[Captyellowbeard]

What Sidious could have done, was not make another Sith Empire, but get more Dark Side users to his side.

Wouldn't it be cool, if in Episode III, an army of Sith battles an army of Jedi.

Although the cinematic Deceived shows that, it would be more epic if there was one in the Star Wars Movies.

 

Oh and also the reason why you should go get the books sidious don't die his spirit lives on and he comes back from clones he made of himself that were lifeless , and i won't give it all away but luke goes to the dark side and the rest is in the books on how and why and what happens after hehe so enjoy.

[Captyellowbeard]

If the Jedi could be brought down with cloned soldiers,

Why couldn't they be destroyed by the old Sith Empire?

 

Deception divide and conquer , cause confusion among the ranks and have victory, that is why the clones came in handy due to they were desperate and had no army till they found the clones, their desperation blinded them causing there destruction.

[Slowpokeking]

If the Jedi could be brought down with cloned soldiers,

Why couldn't they be destroyed by the old Sith Empire?

 

Because the Sith never stop backstabbing and betray each other.

[Mordegrus]

Oh yeah...

[Mordegrus]

But can you all agree that the Prequels could have been better?

[Jaavik]

But it's not the real Movies!!

They are just the solutions to the problems made in the Prequels.

 

But it is all still considered canon. Lucas is writing the episodes. This is all officially part of the story.

[Jaavik]

Order 66 made no sense whatsoever.

1.They had an order to kill ALL Jedi, and the Jedi didn't discover it?

2.Ok, even if they didn't discover it, couldn't they sense that the Clones were targeting them, and couldn't the Jedi hear the Chancellor telling the Troopers to, "Execute Order 66."?

 

The clones were essentially "programmed". That was the purpose of having an army that was genetically engineered. They would obey, no matter what. I don't believe that the clone troopers were "plotting" against the Jedi. In TCW, they are very close with the Jedi. Order 66 was not a publicly known order, I believe that once the order is given, the clones, genetically engineered to follow orders, carried them out immediately. The Jedi wouldn't suspect anything.

 

Jedi are NOT indestructible. They aren't godlike. they aren't constantly walking around sensing what everyone feels about them at all times. Also, their ability to use the force is being hindered at this time. By the time they sensed that the clones were actually targeting them, it was too late, they were each separated from each other and surrounded by their own legions.

[Jaavik]

Can't the Jedi read the minds of people?

 

Jedi are more empathic than telepathic. They can feel emotions and how someone's reacting to them, but I can't think of any instance where someone pulled information out of someone's head without their cooperation (Luke calling Leia when he was hanging by the weathervane); In fact in Episode IV, Vader had to use drugs (The spherical droid with the hypo needle) to try to get information out of Leia as to where the Rebel Base was.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Jaavik

[Jaavik]

But can you all agree that the Prequels could have been better?

 

Absolutely, in the realm of acting, casting, etc, there is PLENTY to be upset about. Lucas is a better storyteller than director, in my opinion. "The Empire Strikes Back" was, hands down, the most popular of all the films. Lucas wrote the script and handed it off to someone else (Irvin Kirschner) and the results were fantastic!. Lucas only directed "A New Hope" and all of the prequels. Not a great director, but I think the actual story was fantastic.

 

I think in many cases, many of us don't realize that we are looking at the Prequels through a completely different prism than the Original Trilogy.

 

1. It's a completely different story with completely different characters in a completely different era. It's not Han and Leia, Chewie and C-3PO; Luke and R2... there are completely different relationships and dynamics.

 

2. Vader wasn't going to be Vader as a child. People always complain about not caring to see what Vader was like as a child and that he was all whiny. I challenge them to go back and watch Episodes IV and V again. Luke is whiny as hell - it runs in the family. Anakin was described in the original trilogy as someone who "still had good in him", so he had to be good at some point. The purpose of the prequels was to tell how Anakin became a great Jedi and fell to the dark side.

 

3. We're older than we were when we saw the Original Trilogy. Ask most kids today and they'll tell you they like the new ones better than the old ones. Someone posted earlier that their child thinks the original Star Wars is boring. When we were older, we were expecting the story to grow up with us and be more adult (similar to how the Harry Potter stories gradually became darker and much more serious). To a point, it did... the prequels are MUCH more political. Politics played a very small role in the OT. I think the story was much more complex as well (as you can tell by this thread and people asking questions about things they didn't understand.

 

4. If you weren't able to tap into that kid you were when you fell in love with the Original trilogy when you watched the prequels, you couldn't enjoy them the same way. Let me give an example. As a child or young teen, you don't look at a movie and complain about the character dynamics, story flaws, the overuse of special effects, etc. (Those are the primary complaints of people who hated the prequels) what you normally care about was lots of action, cool special effects, cool heroes and evil baddies doing battle and if parts of it made you laugh.

 

Think about it, if "The Empire Strikes Back" came out today, how much would we be complaining about the ridiculous way Yoda talks, with putting all his prepositional phrases first? Now think about how many people complained about the way Jar Jar talked...

Edited May 19, 2012 by Jaavik

[Slowpokeking]

I think Hayden was very good in EP III.

 

PT's acting is overall good. Especially Palpatine's portrayal is amazing.

[Jaavik]

I think Hayden was very good in EP III.

 

PT's acting is overall good. Especially Palpatine's portrayal is amazing.

 

I agree. And I really liked the part when he was telling Padme what he did to the Sandpeople in Episode II. For a change, I actually believed Anakin's emotion. Hayden got a reputation for being very wooden. I would partially blame that on Lucas's directing. It's the director's responsibility to get the performance he wants out of the actor. I've seen Hayden in other movies and he's much better.

 

Who is PT?

Edited May 19, 2012 by Jaavik

[Slowpokeking]

I agree. And I really liked the part when he was telling Padme what he did to the Sandpeople in Episode II. For a change, I actually believed Anakin's emotion. Hayden got a reputation for being very wooden. I would partially blame that on Lucas's directing. It's the director's responsibility to get the performance he wants out of the actor. I've seen Hayden in other movies and he's much better.

 

Who is PT?

 

The Prequel Trilogy, I mean most of the actors.

[Rayla_Felana]

Order 66 made no sense whatsoever.

1.They had an order to kill ALL Jedi, and the Jedi didn't discover it?

2.Ok, even if they didn't discover it, couldn't they sense that the Clones were targeting them, and couldn't the Jedi hear the Chancellor telling the Troopers to, "Execute Order 66."?

 

Not trying to start a personal argument, but I can't help but feel you are seriously nitpicking.

 

But to answer your question: They had hundreds of orders imprinted into their mentality, the Jedi had no idea they even existed and the Jedi grew to trust the Clones completely, they just barely figured it out and even then a seasoned master such as Ki-Adi Mundi was no match for the overwhelming firepower and training and considering the actual sound comes from inside their helmets I highly doubt that.

[Mordegrus]

Yeah, I am kind of picking at the details of the Prequels...

Sorry if it made anyone offended.

[Jaavik]

Yeah, I am kind of picking at the details of the Prequels...

Sorry if it made anyone offended.

 

Nah.. I have a blast talking about this stuff. Probably the most fun I've had in these forums. Thank you.

[Eillack]

Order 66 made no sense whatsoever.

1.They had an order to kill ALL Jedi, and the Jedi didn't discover it?

2.Ok, even if they didn't discover it, couldn't they sense that the Clones were targeting them, and couldn't the Jedi hear the Chancellor telling the Troopers to, "Execute Order 66."?

 

You really lack the understanding of PROGRAMMING.

 

Your post is flawed. The Jedi are not a bunch of Professor X's being able to read one's mind. The Jedi are just good at sensing intentions / reading body language. The program built into the Clones would be 100% untracable until an order was given out.

 

Also...it's not like Palpatine was on a huge monitor on every world saying "KILL ALL THE JEDI!!!!!!!" He was on small holopads to only a select amount of clones that were behind the Jedi in the thick of loud battles.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Eillack

[Mordegrus]

You really lack the understanding of PROGRAMMING.

 

Your post is flawed. The Jedi are not a bunch of Professor X's being able to read one's mind. The Jedi are just good at sensing intentions / ready body language. The program built into the Clones would be 100% untracable until an order was given out.

 

Also...it's not like Palpatine was on a huge monitor on every world saying "KILL ALL THE JEDI!!!!!!!" He was on small holopads to only a select amount of clones that were behind the Jedi in the thick of loud battles.

 

Good point.

[MaddenMan]

Order 66 made no sense whatsoever.

1.They had an order to kill ALL Jedi, and the Jedi didn't discover it?

2.Ok, even if they didn't discover it, couldn't they sense that the Clones were targeting them, and couldn't the Jedi hear the Chancellor telling the Troopers to, "Execute Order 66."?

 

Some of the Jedi figured it out in time, but remember Obi-Wan had to go to the temple and turn off the beacon to warn away other returning Jedi so they wouldn't get slaughtered.

 

Also the Jedi had the "dark side" looming over them, unbeknownst to them it was Palpatine in the senate but they might have felt something "off" and just attributed it to that same feeling.

 

At any rate, read the novel Order 66, it address a ton of these issues.

[Captain_Zone]

You really lack the understanding of PROGRAMMING.

 

Your post is flawed. The Jedi are not a bunch of Professor X's being able to read one's mind. The Jedi are just good at sensing intentions / reading body language. The program built into the Clones would be 100% untracable until an order was given out.

 

Also...it's not like Palpatine was on a huge monitor on every world saying "KILL ALL THE JEDI!!!!!!!" He was on small holopads to only a select amount of clones that were behind the Jedi in the thick of loud battles.

 

Not to mention that Yoda was a special case. He was the only one NOT out on patrol or in the middle of a battle when the Order was given. That gave him an advantage, as he could "feel" the switch click in their heads when Order 66 reprogrammed them.

 

And Obi-Wan was far enough away from his squad that he never took a direct hit.

[Arkerus]

Not trying to start a personal argument, but I can't help but feel you are seriously nitpicking.

 

But to answer your question: They had hundreds of orders imprinted into their mentality, the Jedi had no idea they even existed and the Jedi grew to trust the Clones completely, they just barely figured it out and even then a seasoned master such as Ki-Adi Mundi was no match for the overwhelming firepower and training and considering the actual sound comes from inside their helmets I highly doubt that.

 

Its not nitpicking. That line is stupid beyond belief. Its just as if GL needed a line...and he stuck that in there and thought "meeeeeh, good enough, its just a line".

 

Even if there was a plan for Order 66, why would everyone know about it except the Jedis? This is only one example of how lazy and redundant GL became in his older years. He lost everything he was good at in his younger years.

 

Then there's just the dialogue in general. Its...awful. There is no reason to care about or remember anyone...in the whole damn trilogy. They make Obi Wan out to be a bafoon and Anakin is twice as stupid and selfish. His "love" lines are about as believable as a bad soap opera. Hell, soap operas have better lines.

 

All three movies go like this:

 

CGI --> Couch Scene --> CGI -->Couch Scene --> CGI --> CGI --> Couch Scene --> WALKING DOWN A HALLWAY.

 

UGH! So awful. In fact, that was the reason George Lucas re-cut the entire first version of episode IV because the editing made it look like a lazy, poorly scripted film.

[Slowpokeking]

Yesterday I watched EP III again and I think I know the problem of Hayden.

 

His acting was pretty good in EP III, but his voice, especially when he was angry, don't let you feel convincing.