The reason PvP failed is because its too easy and "balanced".

[limibeans]

I recently unsubbed. Main reason: PvP is too boring/frustrating/bad.

 

This game really has some of the worst players I have ever seen. I'm not saying that to be disparaging, but rather im just trying to be brutally honest. The fact is: I cannot escape these bad players and once I encounter them, I quit PvP for a few hours hoping the quit queuing. I'm tired of playing alt's, hoping and praying for more than 4 guildmates to get in the same WZ, dailies that promote failing, lack of any other PvP than WZ's, that its not even worth $15 a month.

 

-Bioware forced me to queue with these people with 4 people pre-mades.

-Bioware forced me to queue for "all" WZ's so I cant escape Hutball (worst WZ for bads)

-Bioware promotes this with a low skill cap game, FOTM classes, and vendor gear.

 

I dont mind waiting for long queues, except that this game has nothing to do other than dalies and waiting for companions. If this game had more stuff to do, long queues wouldnt be a big deal. The issue here is that long queues are long because there is nothing to entertain you while you wait other than alt tabbing and being on Facebook or w/e.

 

 

Right now people are all being forced into one big PvP group. This is terrible. Everyone loses. Just like PvE endgame, if you want PvP "content" you have to reroll. Playing your PvP main just doesnt have lasting power.

[DarkDruidSS]

I recently unsubbed. Main reason: PvP is too boring/frustrating/bad.

 

This game really has some of the worst players I have ever seen. I'm not saying that to be disparaging, but rather im just trying to be brutally honest. The fact is: I cannot escape these bad players and once I encounter them, I quit PvP for a few hours hoping the quit queuing. I'm tired of playing alt's, hoping and praying for more than 4 guildmates to get in the same WZ, dailies that promote failing, lack of any other PvP than WZ's, that its not even worth $15 a month.

 

-Bioware forced me to queue with these people with 4 people pre-mades.

-Bioware forced me to queue for "all" WZ's so I cant escape Hutball (worst WZ for bads)

-Bioware promotes this with a low skill cap game, FOTM classes, and vendor gear.

 

I dont mind waiting for long queues, except that this game has nothing to do other than dalies and waiting for companions. If this game had more stuff to do, long queues wouldnt be a big deal. The issue here is that long queues are long because there is nothing to entertain you while you wait other than alt tabbing and being on Facebook or w/e.

 

 

Right now people are all being forced into one big PvP group. This is terrible. Everyone loses. Just like PvE endgame, if you want PvP "content" you have to reroll. Playing your PvP main just doesnt have lasting power.

 

Starting to think that BW should just gut PvP entirely and focus on PvE. As a hardcore pvper that means I would leave, but I think its about the only shot they have of righting the sinking ship. BW makes good PvE.. it's what they are known for and clearly they don't know PvP. Time to stick to what you do best and keep doing it or risk everything for a subpar MMO that will be a blemish on their otherwise great track record.

[BCBull]

The simple and balanced part rings true. swtor original balance was amazing. That balance alone was impressive, but when you couple that with 31 point trees (why the hell did they make 31 point tress!?!?) The game becomes just too simple with no depth. Once you have a pvp "rotation" that's the way it's gonna be until the end of time.

 

Now if we had an ability wheel like TSW the 4 15 minute battle grounds would be ok.

[limibeans]

Some thoughts expanded:

 

New PvP players have not earned the right to PvP. Recruit gear should have a valor rank, legacy rank, or cost 10x as much so that only an established player can buy their way to "decency" immediately at 50. Right now, too many people are expecting to be able to roll everyone just because they have recruit gear. They have no understanding of the game because a lot of these people probably havnt even played for a month. I was in a WZ earlier where a guy asked me how to change your color crystal... guy was level 50 in recruit gear.

 

This MMO has a lot of new players who have no idea what they're doing. I still see people with valor rank 60+ doing the most careless things. Because of the "balance" you're imposing on us, these people really dont see anything wrong with what they're doing. This game makes the bads think that they're good. Most people will not push themselves to improve something if they think its good enough already.

 

Every player will have the best gear for PvP if given enough time. I dont see how its like this for PvP, but not for PvE. It's ok to give better players better gear in PvE, but not in PvP? Makes no sense.

 

Bioware has contributed to the failing PvP system by allowing bads to think they're good and punishes legitimate PvP'ers by offering only a color change of armor as a reward for being the best.

[alcek]

Too much elitism here. Way too much.

[Lunez]

I dont mind waiting for long queues, except that this game has nothing to do other than dalies and waiting for companions. If this game had more stuff to do, long queues wouldnt be a big deal.

 

Just like PvE endgame, if you want PvP "content" you have to reroll. Playing your PvP main just doesnt have lasting power.

 

Not to sound cynical here, but you could always try playing the game while you wait for PvP. HM's for gear, crafting for better gear and/or items, missions, etc.

 

I have incredible fun playing PvP endgame, but then again, I have an incredibly organized Guild, the strongest on our server. We're all PvP and PvE heavy and possess a strong sense of inner-rank leadership and teamwork. It makes the game really, really fun.

 

I suggest for you to find yourself a more respectable guild, or form one for yourself. Start rearing respectable minions with respectable gear, go on raids to gain better gear, form more than 1 set of 4-man groups in the queues. My guild often forms 1-3 four-man groups in the queue, sometimes formed together and sometimes against one another.

 

Starting to think that BW should just gut PvP entirely and focus on PvE.

 

Hogwash and crazy talk, I love PvP in this game.

 

The simple and balanced part rings true. swtor original balance was amazing. That balance alone was impressive, but when you couple that with 31 point trees (why the hell did they make 31 point tress!?!?) The game becomes just too simple with no depth. Once you have a pvp "rotation" that's the way it's gonna be until the end of time.

 

My guild's skill and teamwork will pwn your skill tree and rotations 95% of the time. Skill-abilities mean nothing without strategy. I think once the cross-server PvP is complete, and other servers have to start playing teams like mine, they're going to wish they still had newbies to play. I cannot wait for the competitions to begin. My server is dying for a few dozen competent guilds to wage war against.

 

New PvP players have not earned the right to PvP. Recruit gear should have a valor rank, legacy rank, or cost 10x as much so that only an established player can buy their way to "decency" immediately at 50. Right now, too many people are expecting to be able to roll everyone just because they have recruit gear. They have no understanding of the game because a lot of these people probably havnt even played for a month. I was in a WZ earlier where a guy asked me how to change your color crystal... guy was level 50 in recruit gear.

 

This MMO has a lot of new players who have no idea what they're doing. I still see people with valor rank 60+ doing the most careless things. Because of the "balance" you're imposing on us, these people really dont see anything wrong with what they're doing. This game makes the bads think that they're good. Most people will not push themselves to improve something if they think its good enough already.

 

Every player will have the best gear for PvP if given enough time. I dont see how its like this for PvP, but not for PvE. It's ok to give better players better gear in PvE, but not in PvP? Makes no sense.

 

Amen brotha. The rights of passage must be earned, less the passage be a floodgate for complacency and dilution.

[FlyinSpaghetti]

New PvP players have not earned the right to PvP..

 

Wait a sec, are you complaining because players aren't as good as you or are you complaining because bad players are pwnin' your @ss?

 

Seems to me the latter otherwise I fail to see the problem.

[Staalker]

Some thoughts expanded:

 

New PvP players have not earned the right to PvP. Recruit gear should have a valor rank, legacy rank, or cost 10x as much so that only an established player can buy their way to "decency" immediately at 50. Right now, too many people are expecting to be able to roll everyone just because they have recruit gear. They have no understanding of the game because a lot of these people probably havnt even played for a month. I was in a WZ earlier where a guy asked me how to change your color crystal... guy was level 50 in recruit gear.

 

This MMO has a lot of new players who have no idea what they're doing. I still see people with valor rank 60+ doing the most careless things. Because of the "balance" you're imposing on us, these people really dont see anything wrong with what they're doing. This game makes the bads think that they're good. Most people will not push themselves to improve something if they think its good enough already.

 

Every player will have the best gear for PvP if given enough time. I dont see how its like this for PvP, but not for PvE. It's ok to give better players better gear in PvE, but not in PvP? Makes no sense.

 

Bioware has contributed to the failing PvP system by allowing bads to think they're good and punishes legitimate PvP'ers by offering only a color change of armor as a reward for being the best.

 

Wow. Hope you don't bump your head on something sharp...

 

New players haven't earned the right to PvP? Really? You mean they didn't pay $15 bucks to play....just like you did?

 

How can these new players ever be good enough if they don't get to play? In fact, what you say is actually the opposite of what would determine a players skill.

 

You say they don't deserve recruit gear, but if you are so skilled...why don't you give them your gear and use Recruit. See who wins.

 

The biggest issue is the difference in gear. If you are experienced, you are going to beat a new player. Or at least you should. The issue is, new players are also in the worst gear. So, they aren't really learning to play. Instead, they are trying to figure out why you just rolled them so fast. They cry imbalance, but the issue is they have inferior gear. When they reach the point they have the same gear, they haven't learned much...simply because even if they were doing it right they were still going to lose.

 

So, the whole time they are in recruit gear working to get BM gear, they are getting beat up and knocked around. They try various things to see what works, but nothing works. One, because they haven't learned the ins and outs and two because they have the lesser gear. Gear makes a difference. They end up in a full set of BM gear, but playing like a new player because they haven't had an equal footing to learn what they are doing.

 

They might ask, how to you counter "blank". Then they say, "i have tried that."

 

They did try it, back when they had inferior gear. So, it didn't work. But it would work now because they are on an equal footing.

 

What you are suggesting is, they don't let the new players have anything. Line them up so you can go and butcher them and laugh about it. And then they quit. Then who do you butcher? It's people like you that is wrong with the game. Not new players.

 

People like you would rather insult and dismiss than try to educate and mentor. You take the whole game personally. Like a loss is going on your criminal record to be forever held against you.

 

What you should be doing is contacting these people after the match. Give them friendly advice, and try to help them be better players. This way it would improve for not only them, but for you as well because you'd have people to play with who know what they are doing.

 

That kind of things would spread. That person you helped would be helping new players one day. And so on and so on. But then again...the way you wrote this. You'd probably send them a message where you insult them and call them names, then remark that no one ever listens. You'd force them to be worse players because they would do the opposite of what you said to do.

 

Don't tell. Teach. And if you aren't willing to do that, shut up. It's easy to sit back and complain. It takes a skilled person to try and change things.

[Krakov]

I recently unsubbed. Main reason: PvP is too boring/frustrating/bad.

 

This game really has some of the worst players I have ever seen. I'm not saying that to be disparaging, but rather im just trying to be brutally honest. The fact is: I cannot escape these bad players and once I encounter them, I quit PvP for a few hours hoping the quit queuing. I'm tired of playing alt's, hoping and praying for more than 4 guildmates to get in the same WZ, dailies that promote failing, lack of any other PvP than WZ's, that its not even worth $15 a month.

 

.

 

This game has the worst PvP system to date out of every MMO I've ever played...period...end of story.

[MrXen]

Too much elitism here. Way too much.

 

Lol yeah...whats funny is its the hypocritical kind. I prefer not to call players bad, because this is an mmo where skill is little involved rather than intelligence, which most can agree is very lacking on the internet as a whole.

 

Just look at this guy...

Some thoughts expanded:

 

New PvP players have not earned the right to PvP. Recruit gear should have a valor rank, legacy rank, or cost 10x as much so that only an established player can buy their way to "decency" immediately at 50. Right now, too many people are expecting to be able to roll everyone just because they have recruit gear. They have no understanding of the game because a lot of these people probably havnt even played for a month. I was in a WZ earlier where a guy asked me how to change your color crystal... guy was level 50 in recruit gear.

 

This MMO has a lot of new players who have no idea what they're doing. I still see people with valor rank 60+ doing the most careless things. Because of the "balance" you're imposing on us, these people really dont see anything wrong with what they're doing. This game makes the bads think that they're good. Most people will not push themselves to improve something if they think its good enough already.

 

Every player will have the best gear for PvP if given enough time. I dont see how its like this for PvP, but not for PvE. It's ok to give better players better gear in PvE, but not in PvP? Makes no sense.

 

Bioware has contributed to the failing PvP system by allowing bads to think they're good and punishes legitimate PvP'ers by offering only a color change of armor as a reward for being the best.

 

I should have just highlighted everything he typed as being wrong, pompous, or retarded...but those red highlights really stood out in a painfully funny kind of way.

 

 

 

 

FYI: in any game, when you fight other players, the only disparity should be with the individual players' experience, intelligence, cunning (and not the stat), skill level, and maybe ingenuity. MMO's crash and burn at an amazing pace (as we all see) because they resort to copying WoW (a poor model to start with that is only successful due to its population attained from its initial lucky timing and branding). In this model players in PVP generally end up with gear advantage (my sword hits harder syndrome), premade vs pug advantage (real team verse random people shoved in a group), and various other forms of "I played longer so I deserve to have my class abilities hit harder than your same class abilities and be more effective at each button press for 'balance'..."

 

 

Longer time played means more >real life< experience with the game and what is going on, which should already BE the advantage. If you have been playing a game for 2 years, and some guy who has played for 3 weeks can beat you in equal gear then whose fault is that? How is this a hard concept to understand? Why is unequal footing "required" in MMOs? You figure it out, I unsubbed from the MMO community, its full of the worst kind of people.

 

 

Long and short: Take my war hero gear away any day of the week and give everyone recruit gear with no grind required to get it and no other tier of gear to "earn"; I prefer to fight people fairly and win through my own means rather than have victory given to me like it is now, a trade I'd gladly make.

[Staalker]

Lol yeah...whats funny is its the hypocritical kind. I prefer not to call players bad, because this is an mmo where skill is little involved rather than intelligence, which most can agree is very lacking on the internet as a whole.

 

Just look at this guy...

 

 

I should have just highlighted everything he typed as being wrong, pompous, or retarded...but those red highlights really stood out in a painfully funny kind of way.

 

 

 

 

FYI: in any game, when you fight other players, the only disparity should be with the individual players' experience, intelligence, cunning (and not the stat), skill level, and maybe ingenuity. MMO's crash and burn at an amazing pace (as we all see) because they resort to copying WoW (a poor model to start with that is only successful due to its population attained from its initial lucky timing and branding). In this model players in PVP generally end up with gear advantage (my sword hits harder syndrome), premade vs pug advantage (real team verse random people shoved in a group), and various other forms of "I played longer so I deserve to have my class abilities hit harder than your same class abilities and be more effective at each button press for 'balance'..."

 

 

Longer time played means more >real life< experience with the game and what is going on, which should already BE the advantage. If you have been playing a game for 2 years, and some guy who has played for 3 weeks can beat you in equal gear then whose fault is that? How is this a hard concept to understand? Why is unequal footing "required" in MMOs? You figure it out, I unsubbed from the MMO community, its full of the worst kind of people.

 

 

Long and short: Take my war hero gear away any day of the week and give everyone recruit gear with no grind required to get it and no other tier of gear to "earn"; I prefer to fight people fairly and win through my own means rather than have victory given to me like it is now, a trade I'd gladly make.

 

Same things I said.

[limibeans]

Too much elitism here. Way too much.

 

It's hardly eliteism when a single bad player can prevent you from winning your game. It's incredibly hard to carry people in PvP. Worst part about it, you're stuck doing it. I would never queue for Hutball without an 8 man premade because one bad can turn a 1-0 winning game, into a 1-2 loss, or even a 1-1 loss.

 

Wait a sec, are you complaining because players aren't as good as you or are you complaining because bad players are pwnin' your @ss?

 

Seems to me the latter otherwise I fail to see the problem.

 

I'm complaining because there isnt enough reward for being good, and it costs everyone too much for someone being bad. I can have the best gear and the highest skill ever, and lose to two valor level 20's in recruit gear if they are the right class.

 

You cannot leave a bad player unattended in any of the WZ's or else you risk losing the entire match.

 

Problem? I dont want to be forced to carry people when I get no rewards other than a slightly faster gear grind.

[DarthTrader]

Wow. Hope you don't bump your head on something sharp...

 

New players haven't earned the right to PvP? Really? You mean they didn't pay $15 bucks to play....just like you did?

 

How can these new players ever be good enough if they don't get to play? In fact, what you say is actually the opposite of what would determine a players skill.

 

You say they don't deserve recruit gear, but if you are so skilled...why don't you give them your gear and use Recruit. See who wins.

 

The biggest issue is the difference in gear. If you are experienced, you are going to beat a new player. Or at least you should. The issue is, new players are also in the worst gear. So, they aren't really learning to play. Instead, they are trying to figure out why you just rolled them so fast. They cry imbalance, but the issue is they have inferior gear. When they reach the point they have the same gear, they haven't learned much...simply because even if they were doing it right they were still going to lose.

 

So, the whole time they are in recruit gear working to get BM gear, they are getting beat up and knocked around. They try various things to see what works, but nothing works. One, because they haven't learned the ins and outs and two because they have the lesser gear. Gear makes a difference. They end up in a full set of BM gear, but playing like a new player because they haven't had an equal footing to learn what they are doing.

 

They might ask, how to you counter "blank". Then they say, "i have tried that."

 

They did try it, back when they had inferior gear. So, it didn't work. But it would work now because they are on an equal footing.

 

What you are suggesting is, they don't let the new players have anything. Line them up so you can go and butcher them and laugh about it. And then they quit. Then who do you butcher? It's people like you that is wrong with the game. Not new players.

 

People like you would rather insult and dismiss than try to educate and mentor. You take the whole game personally. Like a loss is going on your criminal record to be forever held against you.

 

What you should be doing is contacting these people after the match. Give them friendly advice, and try to help them be better players. This way it would improve for not only them, but for you as well because you'd have people to play with who know what they are doing.

 

That kind of things would spread. That person you helped would be helping new players one day. And so on and so on. But then again...the way you wrote this. You'd probably send them a message where you insult them and call them names, then remark that no one ever listens. You'd force them to be worse players because they would do the opposite of what you said to do.

 

Don't tell. Teach. And if you aren't willing to do that, shut up. It's easy to sit back and complain. It takes a skilled person to try and change things.

 

Couldn't agree more.. well said

[limibeans]

Wow. Hope you don't bump your head on something sharp...

 

New players haven't earned the right to PvP? Really? You mean they didn't pay $15 bucks to play....just like you did?

 

There are no tiers for PvP content like there are for PvE. A new 50 should not be able to do KP HM or w/e, unless a group consents to carry that player. In PvP, I dont consent to carry idiots, and there are no tiers (rated WZ's slightly qualify) but even in rated WZ's you can still have unrated players playing in the same WZ as you... nothing like risking a 2200 rating on someone who just hit 50, queued for unrated, with 10k hp.

 

How can these new players ever be good enough if they don't get to play? In fact, what you say is actually the opposite of what would determine a players skill.

 

The common sense elements can be figured out by the time you're level 20. You dont need to be level 50 to know not to make simple mistakes like fighting away from nodes/doors, or worse.

 

You say they don't deserve recruit gear, but if you are so skilled...why don't you give them your gear and use Recruit. See who wins.

 

Just nonsense. Then why even make gear? Why not just have a naked MMO?

 

The biggest issue is the difference in gear. If you are experienced, you are going to beat a new player. Or at least you should. The issue is, new players are also in the worst gear. So, they aren't really learning to play. Instead, they are trying to figure out why you just rolled them so fast. They cry imbalance, but the issue is they have inferior gear. When they reach the point they have the same gear, they haven't learned much...simply because even if they were doing it right they were still going to lose.

 

The biggest issue are fresh 50's who are queued up with me (with and against) who have no idea what they're doing but expect to be decent because they have recruit gear which they just bought.

 

So, the whole time they are in recruit gear working to get BM gear, they are getting beat up and knocked around. They try various things to see what works, but nothing works. One, because they haven't learned the ins and outs and two because they have the lesser gear. Gear makes a difference. They end up in a full set of BM gear, but playing like a new player because they haven't had an equal footing to learn what they are doing.

 

They might ask, how to you counter "blank". Then they say, "i have tried that."

 

They did try it, back when they had inferior gear. So, it didn't work. But it would work now because they are on an equal footing.

 

Have you ever heard of a "gear check"? If not, you have probably never end-gamed anything. PvP does not have a gear check like many PvE encounters. If there are gear checks in PvE, why not put them in PvP? Or at least allow me to not queue with these people?

 

What you are suggesting is, they don't let the new players have anything. Line them up so you can go and butcher them and laugh about it. And then they quit. Then who do you butcher? It's people like you that is wrong with the game. Not new players.

 

What I am suggesting is that new players have no idea *** they are doing and should not be given gear just because they hit 50. You're fixated on the gear, its about the bads. The bads + the gear = they think they're good. My gear is decent and im not complaining about it at all. I have a few WH pieces, and rest full BM. I'm in no rush, either.

 

People like you would rather insult and dismiss than try to educate and mentor. You take the whole game personally. Like a loss is going on your criminal record to be forever held against you.

 

Personal insult. And yes, losses do mean something to me. You realize WH is a joke.

 

9000 W / 1000 L = WH

0000 W / 10000 L = WH

 

lol? I'm competitive. I want to play with people of my caliber and competitiveness and im not even that good, I just look like a genius because the quality of players in this game is terribly low. If 1500 rating was "average" in WoW, this games players have to be sub 1000 on average. Not talking trash, just calling it like I see it.

 

What you should be doing is contacting these people after the match. Give them friendly advice, and try to help them be better players. This way it would improve for not only them, but for you as well because you'd have people to play with who know what they are doing.

 

Really? The things I yell at people for in WZ's are actually things that are common sense. If we lose, thats fine, I accept that, as long as we lost with a good reason. If we lose because someone tries to be a hero and score when possession will do the trick and blows the game for everyone, of course ill rage.

 

I'm a tennis coach. I yell at my players only if they make bad mistakes. You do realize that there are such things as good mistakes and bad mistakes right?

 

That kind of things would spread. That person you helped would be helping new players one day. And so on and so on. But then again...the way you wrote this. You'd probably send them a message where you insult them and call them names, then remark that no one ever listens. You'd force them to be worse players because they would do the opposite of what you said to do.

 

I cant help someone who cant apply common sense. I dont want them to be forced on me either. I want to let them do their own thing if they could only let me do mine.

 

I mean... how am I supposed to help someone play Huttball when they cant even use keybinds?

 

Don't tell. Teach. And if you aren't willing to do that, shut up. It's easy to sit back and complain. It takes a skilled person to try and change things.

 

This isnt Sunday school or the special needs class and students shouldnt be forced on me. I dont have to teach anyone anything. Sometimes, I just want to play a high level of PvP, with both teams being good or better. I can only count a hand full of WZ's where I won/lost and had a great match.

 

You must realize it gets extremely tiring telling people... "WATCH LOS" and the guy runs right to the edge allowing a force jumper to score while we all watch from the dead box.

[sharkfinsix]

Some thoughts expanded:

 

New PvP players have not earned the right to PvP.

 

They paid for the game just like you did. That earns them the "right"

[Sookster]

Bioware claiming to have an experienced pvp dev team from Mythic, so far has made tons of mistakes and things that players and even devs don't like (Ilum fiasco), the RNG bag system was dumb to begin with, the 10-50 mixing together wasn't very good, the gear gap, the amount of CC and now lowered TTK, are just a few to name. During beta, the devs were warned about how strong operative/scounderal were and dev completely ignored it and waited until it was too late.

 

I have no hope in pvp with this game getting any better anytime soon, what's done is done. I have my 30 days free sub right now, I like to pvp in most games I play and I'll keep pvping in TOR til the sub runs out, I still play City of Heroes and Recluse's Victory pvp zone is still hopping with pvp so I may go back to that fulltime.

[limibeans]

They paid for the game just like you did. That earns them the "right"

 

Paying for the game gives them access to the same game that I have access too. That doesnt mean we should experience the same content. This argument is so old and stale.

 

This game is an MMORPG, not a BluRay DVD of Star Wars.

[Briq]

Just nonsense. Then why even make gear? Why not just have a naked MMO?

 

that would make the best pvp game.. where gear doesn't matter and you're fighting with and for pure skill.. but I'd bet you don't want that much of a level playing field now would ya?

 

 

Have you ever heard of a "gear check"? If not, you have probably never end-gamed anything. PvP does not have a gear check like many PvE encounters. If there are gear checks in PvE, why not put them in PvP? Or at least allow me to not queue with these people?

 

both pvp and pve have a gear check... there is nothing in PVE that stops you from trying it regardless of gear level. you'll try and you'll get your butt whipped until you get more gear.. hmmm sounds EXACTLY like pvp in this game LOL.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Qishari
insults

[ShadowOfVey]

Some thoughts expanded:

 

New PvP players have not earned the right to PvP. Recruit gear should have a valor rank, legacy rank, or cost 10x as much so that only an established player can buy their way to "decency" immediately at 50. Right now, too many people are expecting to be able to roll everyone just because they have recruit gear. They have no understanding of the game because a lot of these people probably havnt even played for a month. I was in a WZ earlier where a guy asked me how to change your color crystal... guy was level 50 in recruit gear.

 

This MMO has a lot of new players who have no idea what they're doing. I still see people with valor rank 60+ doing the most careless things. Because of the "balance" you're imposing on us, these people really dont see anything wrong with what they're doing. This game makes the bads think that they're good. Most people will not push themselves to improve something if they think its good enough already.

 

Every player will have the best gear for PvP if given enough time. I dont see how its like this for PvP, but not for PvE. It's ok to give better players better gear in PvE, but not in PvP? Makes no sense.

 

Bioware has contributed to the failing PvP system by allowing bads to think they're good and punishes legitimate PvP'ers by offering only a color change of armor as a reward for being the best.

 

As someone who has 9 pieces of war hero gear on their main (just throwing that out there in case anyone thinks I don't want to put in effort to gear) I really disagree with the idea of having to earn recruit gear.

 

It isn't as though recruit gear is particularly good, it just allows you to play without getting instagibbed. I'm fine with having a gear treadmill to improve once you get involved, but having recruit gear just removes a barrier to entry allowing new people/alts to queue. It can only mean more people to play with which is a good thing.

 

Earning the right to wear the best gear? That's a good thing and is what we do right now already. Earning the right to simply participate? That's not good for the WZ queues and why they added recruit gear to begin with. In the case of recruit gear, I'd actually prefer that just in this case, it be completely free...just so everyone can jump in immediately if they feel like it. They certainly won't dominate in recruit gear, but maybe they'll be able to hold up enough that they decide to join in with us pvping on a regular basis in order to do better.

 

and hell, even if you're an elitist and don't care about others at all, it'll mean more people for your premade to run over. Without people that want to pvp, you don't have anyone left to kill.

Edited May 15, 2012 by ShadowOfVey

[limibeans]

that would make the best pvp game.. where gear doesn't matter and you're fighting with and for pure skill.. but I'd bet you don't want that much of a level playing field now would ya?

 

This is an MMO, not an RTS or an FPS.

 

In an MMO there has to be a sense of progression. This game has none as far as PvP is concerned.

 

both pvp and pve have a gear check... there is nothing in PVE that stops you from trying it regardless of gear level. you'll try and you'll get your butt whipped until you get more gear.. hmmm sounds EXACTLY like pvp in this game LOL.

 

 

The "gearcheck" in PvP is so minimal unless you're going from recruit to full WH with mods. In PvE, you can kick someone from your group if they're bad or undergeared or are just plain dumb. You cant do that in PvP. This is like forced grouping with no rewards for the people being forced.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Qishari
quoted/replied to insults

[DarthKhaos]

Some thoughts expanded:

 

New PvP players have not earned the right to PvP. Recruit gear should have a valor rank, legacy rank, or cost 10x as much so that only an established player can buy their way to "decency" immediately at 50. Right now, too many people are expecting to be able to roll everyone just because they have recruit gear. They have no understanding of the game because a lot of these people probably havnt even played for a month. I was in a WZ earlier where a guy asked me how to change your color crystal... guy was level 50 in recruit gear.

So according to you. Someone like me who leveled their PvP toon solely in Warzones have had their valor capped to my level and would be somewhere like Valor rank 80 by the time I hit level 50 and had to spend so many comms on medpacks and adrenals just so that the coms are not wasted because I couldn't buy level 50 stuff should just be given a full set of War Hero gear.

 

Sounds like a plan.

[BlueFromMoon]

Elder Scroll Online's PVP is alot better trust me.

[Journeyer]

What amazes me the most about the opinions I've read here, and across the forum, regarding PvP is that only one faction has bad players in it. Time and again, I hear the excuse that PvP in TOR is broken specifically because it's too hard to carry bad players on your team. It gets taken even further, too: Here and in other threads, I hear that it *isn't* bs elitism to say that you hate the PvP game on account of the players you get stuck being awful, because *they* completely paralyze your otherwise invincible team.

 

It's like...whoever you are playing against must not have to have the same kind of players or something, right? Or is it that the game is a fail because you have to play with other people, and you might not like them?

 

In my own limited experiences (started PvP @ 50, pre-recruit gear, rank 34 valor), I have seen good, organized teams win in spite of one truly lost player utterly failing to play, or several weakly-geared players failing over and over to defend an objective. And I've seen teams full of Battlemasters lose via the every-man-is-Rambo syndrome. And I've seen a whole heck of a lot in between.

 

Can't we all just agree on this: nobody should lose in PvP, and nobody should win. It ends up happening, and it's always unfair. But isn't that what we queue up again for?

Edited May 15, 2012 by Journeyer

[Rauthadog]

Skill-abilities mean nothing without strategy. I think once the cross-server PvP is complete, and other servers have to start playing teams like mine, they're going to wish they still had newbies to play. I cannot wait for the competitions to begin. My server is dying for a few dozen competent guilds to wage war against.

 

I think alot of players are going to be amazed at the level of team competition out there once we can get cross server ques, everyone is playing in isolation atm. When I hit 50, huttball on our server was dominated by an Imperial guild that basically formed a tight group and crawled the ball to the end zone. It only took 2-3 weeks and a handful of players passing/ quickly transitioning the ball up field to permanently break their strategy, now they rarely win huttball games and have had to adapt a faster passing/transition game. No doubt once they get more comfortable with it, the balance of power will shift back toward the middle and we'll all have to come up with new strategies. This will be happening all over soon

[Astarica]

What amazes me the most about the opinions I've read here, and across the forum, regarding PvP is that only one faction has bad players in it. Time and again, I hear the excuse that PvP in TOR is broken specifically because it's too hard to carry bad players on your team. It gets taken even further, too: Here and in other threads, I hear that it *isn't* bs elitism to say that you hate the PvP game because the players you get stuck with are awful because they completely paralyze your otherwise invincible team.

 

It's like...whoever you are playing against must not have to have the same kind of players or something, right? Or is it that the game is a fail because you have to play with other people, and you might not like them?

 

In my own limited experiences (started PvP @ 50, pre-recruit gear, rank 34 valor), I have seen good, organized teams win in spite of one truly lost player utterly failing to play, or several weakly-geared players failing over and over to defend an objective. And I've seen teams full of Battlemasters lose via the every-man-is-Rambo syndrome. And I've seen a whole heck of a lot in between.

 

Can't we all just agree on this: nobody should lose in PvP, and nobody should win. It ends up happening, and it's always unfair. But isn't that what we queue up again for?

 

Bioware secretly finds all the bad players in your server to be on your team to make sure you have a miserable experience, and the faction you're not on is the one that always wins.