Share the LS/DS gains that made you facepalm

[XenusParadox]

For me, the mission on Nar Shaddaa where you have the choice to either kill the

alien who's taken control of the Hutt network

or let him live was silly. Letting him live benefits you personally as well as the Empire, while killing him is honest and loyal to your Hutt allies. Yet the selfish action gives you LS points and the the noble one gives you DS points.

[TheBBP]

I did not facepalm, but I laughed. Last night as an Agent, I received 50 LS points AND the info I wanted for conning a woman into laying down by the fire for some good luvin.

[DarthTHC]

Once I read what the pattern / criteria were, I was never surprised again.

 

As it turns out, the Light side favors life.

[XenusParadox]

Once I read what the pattern / criteria were, I was never surprised again.

 

As it turns out, the Light side favors life.

 

So if you choose to, say, torture someone for months rather than killing them, you'd get LS points?

[terminova]

For me, the mission on Nar Shaddaa where you have the choice to either kill the

alien who's taken control of the Hutt network

or let him live was silly. Letting him live benefits you personally as well as the Empire, while killing him is honest and loyal to your Hutt allies. Yet the selfish action gives you LS points and the the noble one gives you DS points.

 

There's nothing selfish about letting the alien live, and very little that is noble about killing him. If you think it's noble to kill the alien to show loyalty to the Hutts, better not let the Empire learn where your true loyalties lie: they won't think twice about erasing you from the book of the living.

 

Once I read what the pattern / criteria were, I was never surprised again.

 

As it turns out, the Light side favors life.

 

That isn't true. In some cases, it is true, in other cases it is false. For example, in the Bounty Hunter storyline you are given a last minute choice: bring the target alive to the Hutts (DS) or kill them on the spot (LS). The reasons are obvious: let him live and be tortured by the Hutts (DS) or kill in quickly and cleanly (LS). The difference isn't in whether someone lives or dies, but why and how.

Edited May 11, 2012 by terminova

[Suromir]

One mission you save a baby fleshraider..

 

then you're off putting your foot through the eggs of unborn creatures...

 

that's the only one I remember right now..but there's a bunch of them that made me go "are you effin serious???"

 

a lot of them are stupid as can be

[amantheil]

Early on in the IA storyline (on Hutta), if you have a female character:

 

 

There's a Zabrak trying to blackmail you, and if you sleep with him to get him off your back you get LS points.

 

 

For Troopers on Nar Shadda:

 

 

If you withhold confidential military information from SIS you get DS points. A tad underhanded and political? Yes, but I'd hardly call it "Evil".

 

 

On Tython: where revealing that two young people are in love earns DS points. Honestly, I think trying to end their relationship should be the DS choice, not ratting on them to the Jedis.

 

That said, at least it's better than the half-*****ed implementation of LS/DS decisions in some of the flashpoints (Hammer Station, Athiss, etc.) , where there's just some big machine halfway through the instance that will either kill everyone or let them live. At least someone put some thought into those dialogue choices, even if they don't quite work out.

Edited May 11, 2012 by amantheil

[Pheroras]

beginners area of Ord Mantell you are presented with finding some medicine stolen from the Republican army.

You get light side points if you let the thief keep the medicine, but dark side points if you return it to the rightful owners. From that point on, during early access, I sensed that the game would be not quite on the up and up.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Pheroras

[terminova]

Early on in the IA storyline (on Hutta), if you have a female character:

 

 

There's a Zabrak trying to blackmail you, and if you sleep with him to get him off your back you get LS points.

 

 

For Troopers on Nar Shadda:

 

 

If you withhold confidential military information from SIS you get DS points. A tad underhanded and political? Yes, but I'd hardly call it "Evil".

 

 

On Tython: where revealing that two young people are in love earns DS points. Honestly, I think trying to end their relationship should be the DS choice, not ratting on them to the Jedis.

 

That said, at least it's better than the half-*****ed implementation of LS/DS decisions in some of the flashpoints (Hammer Station, Athiss, etc.) , where there's just some big machine halfway through the instance that will either kill everyone or let them live. At least someone put some thought into those dialogue choices, even if they don't quite work out.

 

Once again, it's not about something being "evil", and you really have to take those in the given context for them to make sense. If you remove them from the given context, of course they don't make sense.

[Blackavaar]

For me it was and still is the mission on Coruscant you do for The True Republic.

 

 

You know, where you have to intercept some information from a Delivery Droid to stop a corrupt senator. Vowing to take the senator down should not be the dark side choice. And allowing him to go should not be light side.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2012 by Blackavaar

[HelinCarnate]

Once I read what the pattern / criteria were, I was never surprised again.

 

As it turns out, the Light side favors life.

 

Imp quest on DK.

Poison a bunch of slaves causing them to suffer. Darkside points.

Poison them and kill them quickly. Lightside points.

 

You were saying?

 

There is no consistancy in the points.

 

Black Talon.

 

Kill the general. Darkside points.

Capture him knowing that the rest of his life will be spent being tortured. Lightside.

Edited May 11, 2012 by HelinCarnate

[Socialist]

Inquisitor DS choices usually are always like this: [shock him]

 

 

Mostly silly and brainless I must say.

[Altinar]

All of the LS/DS decisions make me facepalm. They're so thoughtless and arbitrary most of the time it's not even funny. As noted in a few other posts in this thread, letting the general in BT live is an LS decision, while killing him is DS...yet almost every other let live/kill quickly decision is DS/LS, respectively. Pretty humorous overall, and this is just one example of the laziness of whomever made the LS/DS decisions:

 

 

Killing Thana Vesh is dark side, while letting her live is light side. Ok, I'll let a psychopathic killer live and go on to torture and maim hundreds, maybe even thousands of other people, and as a result I'll be lauded as a morally upright person who betters the galaxy!

 

[erei]

Cademimu :

shooting the enemy fleet earn DS point. Yeah, I know, killing people is something bad, but we are at war, and war is about killing the other side...

I suppose there is something related to some diplomatic incident or something, but when you do the instance, it's just seems stupid.

 

Kaon :

the DS/LS choice for the soldier transforming into rakghoul are swapped according to your faction. The Empire choice is fine, but the Rep choice is stupid. You either let him live, suffer and transform into a rakghoul (LS choice) or be merciful and kill him before the transformation and the suffering (DS). This is just stupid.

 

Jedi Knight VS consular :

having a romance with your padawan as a JK earn DS points. Nothing wrong here, but, as a consular, having a romance with Iresso (don't know with the padawan) is fully neutral (no points earned).

[jgelling]

For me it was and still is the mission on Coruscant you do for The True Republic.

 

 

You know, where you have to intercept some information from a Delivery Droid to stop a corrupt senator. Vowing to take the senator down should not be the dark side choice. And allowing him to go should not be light side.

 

 

 

Both of those political decisions on Coruscant were very grey choices - not clear light/dark at all. The other one involved a Senator who raised campaign funds from a lower city gang on a promise to build more public housing, and who apparently has been a good Senator according to several people in-game compared to her corrupt opponent. Do you turn her in? It's a classic question of whether the ends justify the means, and not at all an easy light/dark side question.

 

For me, I would not turn a good politician in just for raising campaign funds illegally if they otherwise did nothing else wrong, and raising money from corrupt corporations was perfectly "legal." I don't see much moral difference between raising money from Czerka or a lower city crime gang in this game. The corporations in this game are guilty of enormous crimes on a galactic scale - slavery, murder, political intrigue, bribery, illegal arms dealing, etc.

 

Since the Senator didn't promise to do anything that in itself would be illegal for the crime gang, the morality of the situation is very difficult to judge - at least if you consider the greater consequences of turning her in.

Edited May 11, 2012 by jgelling

[PendragonPrime]

Tython as a Jedi Knight, I encounter two padawans in love. I can keep their secret (dark side) or tattle on them to their masters and get them thrown out of the order (light side).

 

If I'd understood how the game worked better, I'd have just abandoned the quest, as it is I pretend it never happened.

[jgelling]

Tython as a Jedi Knight, I encounter two padawans in love. I can keep their secret (dark side) or tattle on them to their masters and get them thrown out of the order (light side).

 

If I'd understood how the game worked better, I'd have just abandoned the quest, as it is I pretend it never happened.

 

Heh, I was fully prepared to take the dark side points on that quest - but really, those two were ANNOYING

 

They were about the worst caricature of a new couple I can imagine. I enjoyed turning them in, only regretting the light saber crystal I missed out on. But I'm sure it wasn't better than the improved crystal in the dark Jedi light saber you get from siding with the fallen apprentice.

Edited May 11, 2012 by jgelling

[Lt_Latency]

In this game ANY smart tactical designs leads to the dark side, I have no idea how the jedi ever win any wars. Edited May 12, 2012 by Lt_Latency

[Sandtrooper]

Inquisitor DS choices usually are always like this: [shock him]

 

 

Mostly silly and brainless I must say.

 

Naaah, that shock just NEVER gets old.

 

 

Sand

[Felioats]

LS points for leaving a sith holocron to teach force-sensitive Rakghouls to use the force, knowing it had been teaching them to draw power by abducting colonists and torturing them to death.

 

Because with no one to teach them, they'd stick with the dark side for sure.

 

Yes, really. Consular storyline.

[GnatB]

For me it was and still is the mission on Coruscant you do for The True Republic.

 

 

You know, where you have to intercept some information from a Delivery Droid to stop a corrupt senator. Vowing to take the senator down should not be the dark side choice. And allowing him to go should not be light side.

 

 

 

Actually, from what I remember, that issue seemed fairly clear cut.

 

 

The senator in question wasn't corrupt (that we know). He simply wanted to break ties with the jedi and side with the sith He (or at least his page) didn't appear to make any pretense at anything else. People are entitled to their views. He's entitled to his. Now, how'd he get elected with those views? No clue. Maybe he managed to keep them secret. Certainly doesn't seem to be keeping them secret anymore. Maybe his constituents happen to have the same views? We have no idea what was in the diplomatic parcel. For all we know it's pictures of him in womens lingerie he was sending to his kinky wife that would be used to blackmail him to keep silent/resign. Seems skirting the democratic (or republic) process like that would be pretty darkside.

 

[jgelling]

Actually, from what I remember, that issue seemed fairly clear cut.

 

 

The senator in question wasn't corrupt (that we know). He simply wanted to break ties with the jedi and side with the sith He (or at least his page) didn't appear to make any pretense at anything else. People are entitled to their views. He's entitled to his. Now, how'd he get elected with those views? No clue. Maybe he managed to keep them secret. Certainly doesn't seem to be keeping them secret anymore. Maybe his constituents happen to have the same views? We have no idea what was in the diplomatic parcel. For all we know it's pictures of him in womens lingerie he was sending to his kinky wife that would be used to blackmail him to keep silent/resign. Seems skirting the democratic (or republic) process like that would be pretty darkside.

 

There's nothing even remotely clear cut about political morality - there are good arguments on the other side:

 

 

As with the other political controversy the game involves you in, the real question is whether morality is found in the nature of the act - a Senator accepting illegal campaign donations in the first case, interfering in the democratic political process in the second - or the consequences of those acts - protecting an effective, if ill-funded Senator with good intentions in the former, protecting the Republic/Jedi from a Senator who's naive and almost certainly wrong in his views in the latter.

 

The light side has you turn in the progressive Senator who's effective and apparently well-liked for illegally accepting campaign donations from a criminal gang (on a promise of more public housing). The light side also has you lie about a diplomatic parcel you claim to have retrieved from a pro-Imperial and anti-Jedi Senator, in order to protect that Senator from knowledge about his secret negotiations - presumably with the Sith Empire.

 

Both issues come down to whether the ends justify the means. If you're a consequentialist/utilitarian (only the end result matters), then you are probably going to get dark side points, since the game leads you to believe that both dark side options are in the best long-term interests of the Republic, even if you have to break the rules.

 

If you're a Kantian/deontologist (there's something inherent in the nature of an act that makes it good/bad, regardless of consequences), then you do the "right thing" (something like the Golden Rule) and are assigned light side points - since lying, bribery and political trickery is "bad" - whatever the consequences may be, which of course, you can't really know at the time.

 

But the issue isn't very clear - there are two sets of moralities and neither one is good/evil or light/dark - just very different perspectives on the nature of morality. Besides that, the dark side is usually a matter of selfishness or lust for power, and in these quests it's possible to make either choice without any selfish motivation - to legitimately believe you're doing the right thing for noble reasons. That's what makes both political issues tough moral choices.

Edited May 12, 2012 by jgelling

[Ranadiel_Marius]

*reads thread* So many errors. x_x Correcting every misremembered fact would take a freaking hour. I'm just going to go and cry in the corner instead now.

[LeeC]

Jedi Knight VS consular :

having a romance with your padawan as a JK earn DS points. Nothing wrong here, but, as a consular, having a romance with Iresso (don't know with the padawan) is fully neutral (no points earned).

I never got any DS points for my Romance with Kira. I guess you have to do it at the right time

 

 

Flirt with her AFTER you kill her brother for good results.

 

Edited May 12, 2012 by LeeC

[Hyfy]

Heh, I was fully prepared to take the dark side points on that quest - but really, those two were ANNOYING

 

They were about the worst caricature of a new couple I can imagine. I enjoyed turning them in, only regretting the light saber crystal I missed out on. But I'm sure it wasn't better than the improved crystal in the dark Jedi light saber you get from siding with the fallen apprentice.

 

There is a couple form the smuggler arc on Coruscant that is equally as bad. Those two, the one on Tython and the one on Coruscant are just absurdly ridiculous.