Kubernetic Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I don't remember the "highest" players really being out of reach in UO or SWG if you put enough effort in, EvE maybe.... but again I guess if you were prepared to dedicate your life to it and were cunning or rich enough you could. But what you're saying is not that you don't like sandbox game it's that you don't like capless skillbased games, the two are different things. Minecraft has levels for instance, but is still sandbox, and a themepark MMORPG with no upper level cap would be effectively impossible to catch up with giving a big enough head start. True, you are correct. I was referring to capless skill based games and not sandbox games. The most open sandbox game I know of is also a capless skill-based game, and I sometimes blend the two together. Good catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubernetic Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Just curious. Did you buy this game because it was "story-based" or Star Wars or both? Would you play this game if it weren't Star Wars? I play this game because it is Star Wars and for no other reason. I wouldn't play this game if it weren't Star Wars. I bought it because of what it was, a story-driven MMORPG. Star Wars Galaxies was Star Wars-based, but I never wanted to play that one. The Force Unleashed was Star Wars based, but I never wanted to play that one either. Whatever this new Star Wars Kinect game is is Star Wars based... also not interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMunny Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Rift is better than ToR on many points... ToR spent all of their money paying actors, while Trion spent it developing the game. Rift = WoW+GW and a few unique features ToR= WoW in space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaavik Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I still think Bioware has a pretty good chance at delivering, though. Yes, the game was released too soon. Very few companies and franchises get second chances. I'm pretty sure Bioware + Star Wars will be enough to get a large chunk of the lost subs back if Bioware listens to it's fan base. And I generally get the sense that yes, they are listening to us VERY carefully right now. I really want to believe this and I hope you're right! I love the game. I would play it every day if I had the time. I love creating alts and I just like playing with other people, no matter what we are doing. I think MUCH of the criticism of the game is valid, however, i think the expectations of the critics can be unreasonable and unnecessarily aggressive. People just like to act like twits in a forum. I guess it's supposed to be empowering in some way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 $200 Clicky The articles cite no actual source for the $200 million number, and one is referencing the other for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 This. I agree with about 90% of your post, original poster guy. You bring up some very real questions. It just further cements people's belief that Bioware was ruined (defiled is perhaps the better term) the minute EA bought them. I can't believe that, left alone to develop the game with no EA influence, this game would be in the state its in. No doubt, something major had to change that wasted tens of millions of dollars in time and early development. Sorry I don't buy that argument. It's the same ol'one that was used in SWG towards $OE. ........Both have something in common: LA LA wanted TOR The way it is. BioWare delivered it and they forgot to make it a polished MMO. EA is far from the culprit here. They were mostly signing the checks. It's easy to blame them but really EA sent roundly $200 millions dollars to BioWare to deliver the game. That's even a bigger budget than Tabula Rasa (that was rebooted before launch and finally shut down). They also agreed on giving them one more year of development to end with a time frame of 6 years. That's more than any other MMO had. So please before blaming EA (which I agree is far from perfect) look a bit towards BioWare and LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Sorry I don't buy that argument. It's the same ol'one that was used in SWG towards $OE. ........Both have something in common: LA LA wanted TOR The way it is. BioWare delivered it and they forgot to make it a polished MMO. EA is far from the culprit here. They were mostly signing the checks. It's easy to blame them but really EA sent roundly $200 millions dollars to BioWare to deliver the game. That's even a bigger budget than Tabula Rasa (that was rebooted before launch and finally shut down). They also agreed on giving them one more year of development to end with a time frame of 6 years. That's more than any other MMO had. So please before blaming EA (which I agree is far from perfect) look a bit towards BioWare and LA. You know, that's an interesting point about LucasArts. I don't believe BIoware 'forgot' to make it a polished MMO though. I could be wrong of course, but I just dont know how you spend 5-6 years on a game and not at least have plans for these features. I mean what were they doing for the first 3 years? Nothing? I wonder if perhaps it was Lucas Arts throwing them curveballs mid-development? They sure killed SWG. Or maybe there is some blame for Bioware for using a problematic game engine. If EA was truly, 99% hands off, they have to be PO'd. It just would be the first time ever. Plus, let's face it, Bioware's products since being bought by EA have gone gradually downhill. Coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 You know, that's an interesting point about LucasArts. I don't believe BIoware 'forgot' to make it a polished MMO though. I could be wrong of course, but I just dont know how you spend 5-6 years on a game and not at least have plans for these features. I mean what were they doing for the first 3 years? Nothing? I wonder if perhaps it was Lucas Arts throwing them curveballs mid-development? They sure killed SWG. Or maybe there is some blame for Bioware for using a problematic game engine. If EA was truly, 99% hands off, they have to be PO'd. It just would be the first time ever. Plus, let's face it, Bioware's products since being bought by EA have gone gradually downhill. Coincidence? Well you have some hints here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 True, you are correct. I was referring to capless skill based games and not sandbox games. The most open sandbox game I know of is also a capless skill-based game, and I sometimes blend the two together. Good catch. Thing is most people seem to only be able to see "sandbox" as say EvE (which is certainly an incarnation of a "sandbox", but by no means the only incanation). SWTOR could have a lot of sandbox features added, whilst still retaining it's current structure in most ways....... if done badly this would feel disjointed, but if done well it could only add to the depth and breadth of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CormacAlClian Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 ...ToR= WoW in space I hope so... If SWTOR would be like WoW, it be much better than now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiQuaeQuod Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 EA happened. /thread Took the words right off my keyboard/out of my metaphorical mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorZie Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) This is an interesting question, I recon something must've happened. It feels like there was something major wrong with the game half way through and they decided to change things around. However they had the time to create galactic history video's and a lot of things which had nothing to do with the game it self.It seems to me they were waiting for something. I can't image it has to do with the engine thou, since they decided on that very early on (2005) according to the maker of the Hero Engine. http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/ There's something else which is a bit funny about SWTOR and that is the planet Quesh. Its like half a planet compared to any of the others and its commendations can't be traded on the fleets. Thats kinda weird donchu think? Edited May 12, 2012 by GorZie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rantank Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I don't know if it was EA or LA that happened, but I too, feel that something knocked this game off the rails. I get the feeling they tried to make this game too much the same as the mass effect franchise just with LA IP. After all, they didn't know much about the MMO genre and any specialists they brought in were outsiders. They figured no-one would care about missing MMO things and if something turned out to be important they could add it later. They should have listened to the MMO specialists who told them that some things are crucial and that the majority of cancelled subs don't return for any length of time. Speaking of which, I've cancelled and am taking a break from MMOs for now. SWTOR kind of dulled my interest in them. I'll play diablo when it lands and then if I miss an MMO I might drop in on Rift again. Terra don't want my money as I live in the wrong part of the world to be able to play on an English server with a decent ping. But who knows.. maybe a few weeks without an MMO and I won't want to install another massive time sink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I hope so... If SWTOR would be like WoW, it be much better than now... Yeah, seriously. Its like they made a WoW clone (the guts are the same), but then decided their game was too good to need to quality of life features WoW had. Not the brightest idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubernetic Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Yeah, seriously. Its like they made a WoW clone (the guts are the same), but then decided their game was too good to need to quality of life features WoW had. Not the brightest idea. Actually it's not a bad idea. From several viewpoints, it could easily be argued that it's better to release the core game functionality, get real users using it in a production mode, and then see which extra QOL features they want the most, then assigning development teams to make that happen. The other method is to determine in advance what those "desires" are, assign the teams, and quite possibly waste lots of development cycles on functions most users wouldn't use in the first place. One method is much more wasteful than the other. The only caveat is that the less wasteful method requires a somewhat patient and mature player base. In that respect, they may have miscalculated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guajolote Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 One method is much more wasteful than the other. The only caveat is that the less wasteful method requires a somewhat patient and mature player base. In that respect, they may have miscalculated. Lower your expectations and keep paying full price to be happy is what you're saying. I'll stick with my unsubscribe plan til they update their game to 2008 levels, thanks. /immatureimpatient off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueFromMoon Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) Dont give 100+ mill to idiots thats what happened. I simply find it amazing they can blow this kind of game, but its REALLY happening. Amateurs! Elder Scroll Online is my next hope of a good game to play years. Edited May 13, 2012 by BlueFromMoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Dont give 100+ mill to idiots thats what happened. I simply find it amazing they can blow this kind of game, but its REALLY happening. Amateurs! Elder Scroll Online is my next hope of a good game to play years. Prepare to be disappointed, they are going with the zero, err hero engine, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueFromMoon Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Prepare to be disappointed, they are going with the zero, err hero engine, Theres already cool ideas to add co-op for example and let me say that 3 faction PVP is going to blow you away, its Warhammer's PVP on Steroids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darka Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 ESO will be a solid game but being that its hyped as the next Messiah, its going to to struggle to live up to fan built hype and expectations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueFromMoon Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 ESO will be a solid game but being that its hyped as the next Messiah, its going to to struggle to live up to fan built hype and expectations Elder Scroll Online's fans arent psychos like you Star Wars guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guajolote Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 If there's one thing Elder Scrolls games do right, it's SANDBOX. Hopefully they maintain that huge open world feeling. If they go the linear rollercoaster route, I could see the game flopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectreclees Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Wait until the contract with EA is up. Until then enjoy sub-par gaming, I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agrik Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Wait until the contract with EA is up. Until then enjoy sub-par gaming, I guess? EA kills everything they touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I agree that Bioware dropped the ball on some basic MMO 101 stuff like a global chat....... But if I was to compare Rift to SWTOR, I would say SWTOR is the better MMO.... Rift ""dynamic content"" was nothing more then static spawn rifts that spawn mobs that ran to the exact same position each time, each Rift more or less played out the same with the 4-5 stages and then poof.... Rinse and Repeat a million times..... Is it more dynamic then what SWTOR offers? Yes but it still falls extremely short of what dynamic content is IMO... If you look up the word Dynamic you would find "Characterized by continuous change" Rift did not have this... There dynamic content was static in nature... meaning the rifts always spawned in the same static locations and the same mobs ran the same preset course.... There was no continuous change... If you ranked it from 1 (linear) to 10 (dynamic) I would give SWTOR a 1 and Rift a 3 As far as Rift being open, I have to chuckle to myself because Rift was extremely linear just like SWTOR.... it sent you from quest hub to quest hub and the zones were very small and narrow just like SWTOR... And what was even more annoying about Rift was how heavily populated mobs were, even among the travel paths so you had to constantly fight your way to get anywhere... that got old fast.... Story was dismal in Rift and I read everything I could but found myself falling asleep while reading most of the quest text.... SWTOR definitely wins this one hands down.... Although I still felt that all the writing for SWTOR was done in a way that was to safe and a bit boring, they didn't really take any risks and try to keep everything within a G to PG rating which lead to some rather boring class stories.... And removing the consequence system hurt SWTOR choice system because no matter what you decided the outcome had no consequences.. Anyways I do believe SWTOR is the better game but neither of them are all that great... With a severe population issue which makes finding groups impossible and when your at end game and can't find people to do stuff with, well your going to get bored and quit.... That's the problem SWTOR faces right now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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