Anosa Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Ive had repeated games where teams of stacked sents and knights seem to be grabbing the ball and literally do 2-3 leaps across the map to friendly players and score. its a blow out everytime. is this intended?? its literally game breaking if u have a team of other classes doing this... u cant kill them fast enough before they get that second gap to leap to the other player Edited May 9, 2012 by Anosa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerokTalram Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) As far as I know Sent can't or at least shouldn't be able to leap to friendly players. Normally as a sent if I am going to leap it's too an enemy player. Though I have been pulled by friendly players in hullball. Not sure how that worked. So maybe you can leap as well. Edited May 9, 2012 by JerokTalram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I think its been magnified lately since they made force push reset force leap. i play a guardian and i like the change but i really cant justify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codyr Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 As far as I know Sent can't or at least shouldn't be able to leap to friendly players. Normally as a sent if I am going to leap it's too an enemy player. Though I have been pulled by friendly players in hullball. Not sure how that worked. So maybe you can leap as well. sages can pull friendlies. guardians can leap to friendlies. as to the OP, it may be that a bunch of knights have practiced this enough that they're good at it, but i don't think this is a surefire way to win every time, and worse, if they didn't get Huttball on their random queue, having an entire team of knights is FTL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_of_Mu Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Ive had repeated games where teams of stacked sents and knights seem to be grabbing the ball and literally do 2-3 leaps across the map to friendly players and score. its a blow out everytime. is this intended?? its literally game breaking if u have a team of other classes doing this... u cant kill them fast enough before they get that second gap to leap to the other player They might be using guardian leap but that is a guardian ability, not a sentinel. Also did you take note of the class they were leaping to? There is a good chance that a few sages were simply using rescue to pull the ball carrier across the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfVey Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 It can be difficult to fight against in a pug, but you can greatly reduce its effectiveness by having your team be aware of positioning to not make themselves desirable leap targets. It's one of those things that's really effective for the enemy when you first fight against it, then loses effectiveness as you get more experience playing against such teams and become more aware of your defensive positioning. Ideally, you want to remove any members of the enemy team from ledges that provide a friendly leap target for their ball carriers, then remove yourself from the area as well before you are lept to. Assassins/Powertechs with pull abilities are useful here. If you try to just pull a leaping ball carrier into the fire, they might just leap right back out. It is often more desirable to use the pull abilities to remove enemy players that the carrier can leap/pass to instead. When the carriers have problems finding people ahead of them to leap to, their effectiveness is greatly diminished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasheria Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 It works both ways. You can also leap and pull players. As a Sorc, I use extricate on my team mates to help score This make players (on your side) need to keep an eye on where other people are and push them off the ledges or places where "friendly" might be pull TO or LEAP to. The key thing that MANY players don't realize is that if someone is going to score (either side) someone NEED to be in the middle to pick up the ball. I ALWAYS notice that when the enemy is about to score EVERYONE (except me) goes to the middle and try to grab the ball and end up getting jumped cause the other team play smart and grab the ball again and score. Many players have short term stun and should use it wisely (i.e. use it on hazards to max damage or combo with stun and PUSH them INTO a hazard) instead of using it willy nilly and make player become temp immune to it. Also don't stun and then Overload. (it won't work) you need to overload FIRST then stun. I usually overload (aoe knockback) into a hazard and stun them works everytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatB Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Can't speak for Sent/marauders, but Guardians (can) have 2 different jump to enemies, 1 of which is refreshed by a push, and a jump to an ally. 4 jumps total. (though one of them is only 10m, IIRC) The jump to enemy is presumably easy to neutralize just by better positioning your own forces. (i.e. don't stand near the goal to guard it) The jump to ally is trickier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I think its been magnified lately since they made force push reset force leap. i play a guardian and i like the change but i really cant justify it. Push has always reset leap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatthefett Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 sages can pull friendlies. guardians can leap to friendlies. as to the OP, it may be that a bunch of knights have practiced this enough that they're good at it, but i don't think this is a surefire way to win every time, and worse, if they didn't get Huttball on their random queue, having an entire team of knights is FTL. I have seen teams with this strategy. It usually blows out my pugs and everyone on my team winds up standing in the middle 1v1. It's a 6-0 loss in these situations and I just have to get my medals before time runs out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Rammstein Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Push has always reset leap no it hasn't, it was implemented in a patch some time after launch because they felt the jugg/guardian didn't have enough defensive abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gidoru Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Ive had repeated games where teams of stacked sents and knights seem to be grabbing the ball and literally do 2-3 leaps across the map to friendly players and score. its a blow out everytime. is this intended?? its literally game breaking if u have a team of other classes doing this... u cant kill them fast enough before they get that second gap to leap to the other player I submitted a question regarding this for this week's Q&A, we will see if it gets answered. But ya, i think Huttball is the least fun Warzone by far when the opposing team has Sith Warrior or Jedi Knight ball carriers. Not mention if you add a bunch of Sorc into the mix, between 3 possible leaps in about 5 secs with force push and a pull it gets pretty dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) no it hasn't, it was implemented in a patch some time after launch because they felt the jugg/guardian didn't have enough defensive abilities. You're correct it was implemented less than 1 month after release Which in my book is as good as having it from launch Also leaping the ball only works against Players that have no idea about positioning If you're not controling mid and all stacked at your goal line It doesn't matter who's running that ball the other team will win Edited May 10, 2012 by denpic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeSLX Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 And the difference between passing and leaping is....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilikaa Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Force leaping is fine, as long as you DON'T have the ball. Force Leap should not be usable with the ball. I can't cloak on my Shadow with ball. If I do I lose it. If you leap with the ball then you should also lose it. using the leap ability to score is nonsense. If I can't cloak and try to score then people shouldn't be allowed to jump and score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Force leaping is fine, as long as you DON'T have the ball. Force Leap should not be usable with the ball. I can't cloak on my Shadow with ball. If I do I lose it. If you leap with the ball then you should also lose it. using the leap ability to score is nonsense. If I can't cloak and try to score then people shouldn't be allowed to jump and score. But you can cloak at the other teams goal or Ledge near pit and magically appear for a Pass... is that fair? Also with cloak you and traverse the entire field Only desteathing as Needed allowing for unhindered positioning Edited May 10, 2012 by denpic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperI Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Setting up a leap/pull chain is absolutely an intended mechanic. If it weren't, it would have been changed a long time ago as this happened in beta and everyone knew about it. Heck, I think I pulled it off at PAX Prime last year for all to see. The thing is, it's a strategic move that takes skill and practice and a little bit of derps from the opposition. If you see the other team setting up on your catwalks with sages/sorcs getting ready to pull their teammates to them, you need to focus on them and use KBs to knock them off. If you see that a JK/SW is carrying the ball, don't be a derp when you're coming out of the spawn and let him leap to you. If you give him a target, it's your own fault for losing. Force leaping is fine, as long as you DON'T have the ball. Force Leap should not be usable with the ball. I can't cloak on my Shadow with ball. If I do I lose it. If you leap with the ball then you should also lose it. using the leap ability to score is nonsense. If I can't cloak and try to score then people shouldn't be allowed to jump and score. Two completely different things. Stealth makes you unable to be targeted so you can't be damaged except by the rare welll placed AOE. A JK/SW with leap is still vulnerable to any attack, including grapples. There is your counter to force leap right there. You see him leap, you get your vanguards and powertechs to pull him back. I see it happen all the time. Force Leap also requires an enemy target. Pay attention to your surroundings and don't give him a target. Stop being bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kronomandar Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Force leaping is fine, as long as you DON'T have the ball. Force Leap should not be usable with the ball. I can't cloak on my Shadow with ball. If I do I lose it. If you leap with the ball then you should also lose it. using the leap ability to score is nonsense. If I can't cloak and try to score then people shouldn't be allowed to jump and score. but you can sprint with the ball. and use other abilities. stealthing is a completely different mechanic to leaping as the leaper remains visible and attackable the entire time. my main is a jugernaught, however i've set that aside and have been leveling an assassin. of the two, i would consider the assassin the more powefull and flexible class. an assassin is perfectly capable of scoring in huttball. better over short distances, but far harder to stop when using sprint with defensive cooldowns. if specced to have force pull is far better than a jug in stopping an enemy scoring. to hinder a jug scoring, you need to deny him targets to leap too, both friendly and enemy. this comes down to your battlefield awareness and your teams positioning skills. a sorc/sage on the far side of a fire, friendly or enemy, is bad news for you and good news for the jug. do something about it before the jug does. sometimes, the ball carrier is not the best target for you to be hitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsch Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Force leaping is fine, as long as you DON'T have the ball. Force Leap should not be usable with the ball. I can't cloak on my Shadow with ball. If I do I lose it. If you leap with the ball then you should also lose it. using the leap ability to score is nonsense. If I can't cloak and try to score then people shouldn't be allowed to jump and score. You can stealth for a final pass. You can sprint. You can render yourself immune to any CC and force attacks for 5 seconds. Take all of those things and make them unable to use (also you can't catch a ball 10 seconds after uncloaking). Make carriers immune to friendly or enemy pulls aswell as guard. Disable the marauder-bubble. Then we might talk again about disabling charge and intervention while carrying the ball. I personally love charging, especially with the charge-reset that got implemented with 1.1 (in january). If you're skilled you don't even need anyone pulling you - . Takes a little positioning skill (aswell as luck because of *********** serverlags) but it's the only viable thing against all of those freaking knockbacks. Shadows or Assassins are the ones who really shouldn't complain since they are literally unstoppable after you made your way past the first fire pit. And they do not rely on enemy making mistakes / the team getting into position. Edited May 10, 2012 by Mitsch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesmindassassin Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) My main gripe with the TS's post and several of the posts in this thread is that they are listing Sentinels/Marauders and the vague Jedi Knights/Sith Warriors when Sentinels/Marauders don't have Intercede (leaping to allies) or Force Push (displacement/knockback + knockdown that resets Force Charge). Sentinels/Marauders only have one Force Charge unless they spec into Focus/Rage then they get a 10 meter range leap (very short distance, can't leap across the battlefield) that Guardians/Juggernauts have access to as well anyway. So yeah, please leave Sentinels/Marauders out of this conversation as they don't have "2-3 leaps." I'd honestly consider this thread and most posts in it void since they don't even know what classes have the abilities they are QQing about. Edited May 10, 2012 by Eyesmindassassin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBSIP Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 My main gripe with the TS's post and several of the posts in this thread is that they are listing Sentinels/Marauders and the vague Jedi Knights/Sith Warriors when Sentinels/Marauders don't have Intercede (leaping to allies) or Force Push (displacement/knockback + knockdown that resets Force Charge. Sentinels/Marauders only have one Force Charge unless they spec into Focus/Rage then they get a 10 meter range leap (very short distance, can't leap across the battlefield) that Guardians/Juggernauts have access to as well anyway. So yeah, please leave Sentinels/Marauders out of this conversation as they don't have "2-3 leaps." I'd honestly consider this thread and most posts in it void since they don't even know what classes have the abilities they are QQing about. barely anyone has talked about sentinels here, in fact most of it has focused on juggernaut capability. The cynic that is me smells someone who is so afraid of sentinel/mara nerfs that they are getting reactionary to any discussion of mechanics that can be considered giving mara/sents an "unfair" advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerikFox Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I have seen teams with this strategy. It usually blows out my pugs and everyone on my team winds up standing in the middle 1v1. It's a 6-0 loss in these situations and I just have to get my medals before time runs out. I've lost 6-0 in about 2min before. Less I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerfAvari Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 working as intended, no need for a discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinrei Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) The only way for a Jugg to leap from mid to cap is for nubs to be on the platform edges and letting enemies sit on platforms ready to be interceded too. Huttball is all about awareness and positioning. If you can't get your head around those two things leave Huttball when you get it. You can shutdown a Juggs ability to do this if you play smart, ofc if hes a smart jugg he can also find ways around it to try and win. Huttball isn't a WZ for the lazy minded players. It actually takes some thought to win. Edited May 10, 2012 by Sinrei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proppa Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 It's also important to keep an eye on the resolve bar. Don't just fill it up with unnecessary stuns/snares etc. Use it for Knockbacks / Pulls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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