Do players really think most people sit in fleet and do nothing?

[Evensong]

I play every day and I spend in Fleet maybe 5 minutes a day/shrug

[RexxThundarr]

I can personally guarantee that there is a thing how then but who derp LOUD NOISES

 

There is no debate about server populations, far as I know. TORstatus provides stats. And, the number of people on Fleet is usually indicative of the total # of people on that server at that time. it's not rocket science.

 

And, if you're lvl 50, there's not much point being anywhere but Fleet, esp now that Ilum is dead. I know, maybe I'll go explore the entire map of Taris to pick up a few more XP!!!

[Sandtrooper]

Does it have to do with the fleet not being instanced? Planets/OPs/FPs are instanced/sharded.

 

 

Sand

[ferroz]

I am wondering this because I see a lot of people citing fleet all the time and how many people are there. Why would this be any measure of anything. I hit fleet get what I need done and move on. I spend most of my time in my ship actually or questing. So why would anyone base their opinions on how many people are afk in fleet?

No, in general players really think that most people don't log into the game... they're not even bothering to log into fleet and sit there doing nothing.

[-Dench]

It's impossible to do, you'd have to take the population count inside wzs, fps, ops, and people's ships; as well as the fact that it all has to be done simultaneously and numerous times over a given time period. Simple rule of thumb with trendlines, the more data points the smoother the curve. Not to mention outliers and rolling averages, true statistical analysis is not something you can just do on your own in this game with any meaningful accuracy.

 

I used 25+ locations to get my general idea from, which is significantly more than the ones that dulfy used, I think.

 

I did all the WZ's, all the major FPs and OPs, and all the worlds. The only places I skipped where ships, which I accounted for with a generous estimate.

 

Sure, my numbers are not near perfect, but they provide me with a general baseline to keep track of server population trends.

 

I have no other way to tell the numbers, except doing the work myself. BW wont say, thats for sure.

Edited May 4, 2012 by -Dench

[Biggrich]

I guarantee that there are at least 5-1 people out playing the game as opposed to sitting in fleet afk.

 

I could take a dump in a box and label it GUARANTEED, but all I sold you was a guaranteed piece of ****.

 

Fleet is the central hub, just like Stormwind or Orgrimmar in WOW. As has already been stated, restated and beaten to death; it's a good indication of the overall population of a server / faction. Most of us know that it's not the full population, but when you see 30 people on Fleet you can be pretty damn sure your server is light on players.

 

Even using your 5:1 mathematically proven ratio, if there are 30 people on Fleet then there would be 150 people total. Divide that by 15 planets, 4 WZs, and 12 or so FPs and figure out how good the chances are of finding a group to do anything with.

[Darkulous]

Just sad that people pay to play a game just so they can sit in fleet. I guarantee that there are at least 5-1 people out playing the game as opposed to sitting in fleet afk.

 

But if the 5, represented by your ratio, is spread across all the planets than the fleet would still have the highest population.

[Nighthawked]

Whether the people on the fleet are afk or not, the amount of people on the fleet at one time is a good indication of server population, when used in comparison with other servers.

 

No it is not. I was in fleet on my server and there were 10 people. Last night, I went to Illum and there was 7, Belsavis had 28, Corellia had 6, and Tatooine had 58

[Revelationjp]

This is a rather silly discussion really. All the evidence that we can gather and present as players is anecdotal at best, and fabricated at worst. I'm sure we can all agree that we'd all like to have more players in game so it's easier to group and PVP. So why argue about whether fleet is representative of population? Well I guess it is the internet...

[mokkh]

I used 25+ locations to get my general idea from, which is significantly more than the ones that dulfy used, I think.

 

I did all the WZ's, all the major FPs and OPs, and all the worlds. The only places I skipped where ships, which I accounted for with a generous estimate.

 

Sure, my numbers are not near perfect, but they provide me with a general baseline to keep track of server population trends.

 

I have no other way to tell the numbers, except doing the work myself. BW wont say, thats for sure.

 

You're not accounting for people who log off/on, you're assuming a static population (okay, nobody move!) and only taking one point at one moment in time that has zero contiguity with anything else. You'd need software filters to eliminate double counting people... I have 6 different toons in 6 different places and when I flip crew missions I can log in and out with all 6 in a matter of minutes. What if you took your census while I was in between logging? I wouldn't be counted at all. What if you took your census and timed it as such (yes I know this is a stretch but its possible) so that your observation was in sync with me entering each separate zone? I'd be counted 6 times.

I could go on but I realize your mind is made up from the defensive tone of your response. The point is as you said,"I have no other way to tell the numbers" and the way you are using is flawed by your own admission. It may satisfy you, but as someone who has actually done things under scrutiny I can tell you it is not satisfactory.

 

What is your hard data? Post actual numbers... with time stamps. How many samples did you take from the population and over how long of a period? What days were you performing this on, and was it over an entire week one time, or a once a month from the beginning of launch?How do you take population samples from two separate populations (as in separate factions) at the same time? As I said before, a line is a series of contiguous points not just random data. You even stated 1/4 to 1/5 as a result, that's a 5% difference off the total right there and a pretty serious deviation by any standard.

 

Lastly, just because I'm curious why in the world would someone actually spend their gametime doing this in the first place?

 

I'm not going to argue with you further if you believe in your numbers then so be it, I disagree and it's not a big deal.

 

To get back on the topic of this thread I think that people's certainty over the status of their fleet as being an indication of overall server population is false. End of story.

Edited May 4, 2012 by mokkh

[asbalana]

PvP players hang out on fleet while waiting for their PvP queue to pop.

 

Players who want to find a flashpoint hang out on fleet while spamming LFG.

 

Players who are crafting hang out on fleet because it's the best place to access bank + mail + GTN + trainers.

 

Players who are leveling go to planets.

 

On RP servers, I imagine there is some number of role-players out on the planets too.

 

But, yeah, at any given time the majority of players will be on fleet. That's what BioWare designed fleet to be.

 

You have some good points. There is definitely a need for a central point for grouping and for crafting, GTN trading access, training, vendors, socializing, etc. Even people who are leveling have a reason to be in fleet for some time during their play. For example, I use the fleet as a meeting point when questing with another player. I wait unitl I finish a planet to turn in my commendations. There are times when you pop a level and do not rush to a trainer and at the end of a segment of play pop to fleet to train. After questing for a while, it would be nice to be able to go quickly back to fleet and put up the mats that I have gathered (and some nice drops) up for sale and empty my bags.

 

I am not a WOW fan and unsubbed a while before swtor launched. But when I think of SW + Goldshire (or Orig) and then compare it to fleet, I just shake my head. I don't think that BW just missed the boat in the design and concept of fleet and the ease of access thereto, but rather is not even aware that the boat has sailed.

 

In the end, I think that the fleet population is indeed indicitive of the health of the server and the health of the game. It is just my opinion, but I also think that a dynamic compelling central hub tends make the playing experience overall better which translates into more players. No, no one plays because the central hub is great but anything that contributes to overall enjoyment and satisfation must help player retention.

Edited May 4, 2012 by asbalana

[-Dench]

You're not accounting for people who log off/on, you're assuming a static population (okay, nobody move!) and only taking one point at one moment in time that has zero contiguity with anything else. You'd need software filters to eliminate double counting people... I have 6 different toons in 6 different places and when I flip crew missions I can log in and out with all 6 in a matter of minutes. What if you took your census while I was in between logging? I wouldn't be counted at all. What if you took your census and timed it as such (yes I know this is a stretch but its possible) so that your observation was in sync with me entering each separate zone? I'd be counted 6 times.

I could go on but I realize your mind is made up from the defensive tone of your response. The point is as you said,"I have no other way to tell the numbers" and the way you are using is flawed by your own admission. It may satisfy you, but as someone who has actually done things under scrutiny I can tell you it is not satisfactory.

 

What is your hard data? Post actual numbers... with time stamps. How many samples did you take from the population and over how long of a period? What days were you performing this on, and was it over an entire week one time, or a once a month from the beginning of launch?How do you take population samples from two separate populations (as in separate factions) at the same time? As I said before, a line is a series of contiguous points not just random data. You even stated 1/4 to 1/5 as a result, that's a 5% difference off the total right there and a pretty serious deviation by any standard.

 

Lastly, just because I'm curious why in the world would someone actually spend their gametime doing this in the first place?

 

I'm not going to argue with you further if you believe in your numbers then so be it, I disagree and it's not a big deal.

 

To get back on the topic of this thread I think that people's certainty over the status of their fleet as being an indication of overall server population is false. End of story.

 

I can try to answer some of your questions.

 

To start, I am by no means an expert, or even have any type of experience at all really in gathering numbers, or statistics. So, please don't take me for anything other than just a person counting numbers.

 

There are a ton of variables, i'm probably only aware of about 10% of them I know that for sure.

 

Each survey I take lasts 4-5 mins. Sure, people are without a doubt moving around during this time, logging in and out and moving to and from locations I cant see. I know that. I know that my numbers are going to be off without a doubt. Even if i had a real background in this type of things, i think that my numbers would still be off.

 

I also only gather the Imperial side. I don't have any Republic toons, so I have no way of even viewing them. I simply "who" the location, and look at how many it pulls. Sometimes its bugged and will show zero, and I know that there are people there, so I will ask a person in my VOIP to who it, and usualy they come back with a number instead of a bugged zero.

 

Why am I doing it? good question. not for the public, to be honest. although i dont mind sharing what i do find with the forum. The reason why I am doing it is because I want to move my guild off the server I am on. I am going to attempt to keep metrics of the same locations, and in conjunction with torstatus, provide my work as examples of how my server is shrinking. My server, just by looking at torstatus graphs has been dropping steadily, so, in the spirit of wanting to play this game in a MMO setting, i am trying to gather data to attempt to show evidence of my point - that we need to move when allowed.

 

I'm not defensive, really. I don't particular mind if the general public on swtor doesn't like my numbers, my attempt at numbers or my reasoning. I would be bothered if my guild have me harsh push back, but i suspect that wont be the case. I know that people will defend swtor either blindly or with facts, and i know that people will attack swtor in the same way. I'm just trying to get some facts, and the only way i can do so is by doing it myself.

 

Its not really a big time sink. 5 mins per census at the start of the hour, and i try to take 3 per night during primetime to get a spread. I will most likely publish the thread in my severs sub forum here on swtor when im done, but that wont be towards the end of the month.

 

All the data is going into an excel sheet that i gather in order to keep track of it, and try to identify trends.

 

very, very unscientific, and done by me, like i said, who has no idea really whats hes doing. its a start, though.

 

if youre really curious, you can click on my guilds link oin my sig, go to the general forum and view the thread i put up about Ven Zallow dying, i put it up just about an hour ago. you can get your take there, and even post in it if you'd like.

Edited May 4, 2012 by -Dench

[Roccobb]

Not to mention most of the lvling fps are on the fleet wich if a server is healthy should be jumping with activity as any instance or main trade/quest hubs generaly does. So yea why it will in no way give an over all number of people on the server. It will give a fairly acurate indication of server health.

 

If they are leveling FP's.... Then wouldn't a healthy server show you that they are not on the fleet, but in the FP, which means not showing on fleet?

[Saurakk]

This is a rather silly discussion really. All the evidence that we can gather and present as players is anecdotal at best, and fabricated at worst. I'm sure we can all agree that we'd all like to have more players in game so it's easier to group and PVP. So why argue about whether fleet is representative of population? Well I guess it is the internet...

 

Yeah I am missing the point of this thread to be honest. No clue what the OP trying to show...

[FITorion]

I think ...

 

If I wanted to get a group for any flashpoint I would be forced to sit in fleet doing nothing for a few hours.

 

As I don't want to do that I don't... and thus don't do flashpoints. I'm out leveling my many characters. I haven't found any light hearted friendly guilds to join yet... All I see is hardcore scheduled event guilds.

[ShadowAxx]

What about joining a guild? If you did that you wouldnt have to sit in fleet looking for groups. They would be scheduled and you would know when you are running them. I just sit and smh thinking about people complaining #1 they cannot find groups yet refusing to join a guild where they could group all day and night.

 

Great idea. Oh wait, guilds are dying. Maybe it's natural guild consolidation.

 

Back to Fleet and running with PUGs I guess. Wait, fleet populations appear to be back at pre 1.2 levels and it's hard to find groups for HM FP/OP missions again. Maybe it's natural server population consolidation.

 

I'm on Swiftsure and it's tough. Can't imagine what it's like on other less populated servers.

[Vonb]

I suspect that those who spend the most time at the fleet are people who have what they consider to be an impressive speeder and they just pretend to be afk to show off while sitting in a strategic point (mailboxes seem to be popular)

 

I make a point of ignoring them of course

[kelarn]

yes

 

 

5millionchartothe10thpower

[Adderdin]

I am wondering this because I see a lot of people citing fleet all the time and how many people are there. Why would this be any measure of anything. I hit fleet get what I need done and move on. I spend most of my time in my ship actually or questing. So why would anyone base their opinions on how many people are afk in fleet?

 

Oh leggomy you rascal! Everyone knows that most of the time you spend on forums and not in the game, it has been like that in december, january, febuary, alot less in march, but you came back to the forums in april.

 

Still doing healthy 50 or more posts per day, and lets pretend that it takes few minutes to make a post, to write it, check spelling, rethink and then press the post button lets round it up to 4 minutes per post, thats according to your posting statistics aka last 500 posts from your forum account.

 

So you spend atleast 3 to 4 hours per day on forums. I am sorry, but I just do not see how you could still have time to play the game.

 

And what others said - If fleet is empty, server is dead.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Adderdin

[Leggomy]

Great idea. Oh wait, guilds are dying. Maybe it's natural guild consolidation.

 

Back to Fleet and running with PUGs I guess. Wait, fleet populations appear to be back at pre 1.2 levels and it's hard to find groups for HM FP/OP missions again. Maybe it's natural server population consolidation.

 

I'm on Swiftsure and it's tough. Can't imagine what it's like on other less populated servers.

 

If you always run PUGs then yes it will be difficult. Joining a good guild will fix that for you tho.

[Leggomy]

I suspect that those who spend the most time at the fleet are people who have what they consider to be an impressive speeder and they just pretend to be afk to show off while sitting in a strategic point (mailboxes seem to be popular)

 

I make a point of ignoring them of course

 

I honestly do not get why you would sit there for any length of time. I like to craft on my ship. I queue for pvp in my ship. I only go there if a quest makes me or I want to do a fp or something there. Then I am only there long enough to get where I am going.

[Goretzu]

Oh leggomy you rascal! Everyone knows that most of the time you spend on forums and not in the game, it has been like that in december, january, febuary, alot less in march, but you came back to the forums in april.

 

Still doing healthy 50 or more posts per day, and lets pretend that it takes few minutes to make a post, to write it, check spelling, rethink and then press the post button lets round it up to 4 minutes per post, thats according to your posting statistics aka last 500 posts from your forum account.

 

So you spend atleast 3 to 4 hours per day on forums. I am sorry, but I just do not see how you could still have time to play the game.

 

And what others said - If fleet is empty, server is dead.

 

 

 

It's a conspiracy!

 

 

 

 

 

I dunno why people sit around on the fleet, I usually do something else whilst queuing for WZs.... having said that if you're just trade skilling whilst watching TV then the fleet is probably the best place to do it (until AH on ship is properly implemented anyway).

[Saurakk]

I suspect that those who spend the most time at the fleet are people who have what they consider to be an impressive speeder and they just pretend to be afk to show off while sitting in a strategic point (mailboxes seem to be popular)

 

I make a point of ignoring them of course

 

I look so sexy on my space moped that people cannot help but check out my l33tness when idling on the fleet.

[Goretzu]

Plus if you're queuing for WZ you don't want to be on say Correllia inbetween matches, because you'll spend 50% of your time staring at a loading screen.

[Nyjin]

On my server, at least 1/3 of the current population (at least Republic side) will be on the Fleet, at any given time.

 

The planets average about 10-20 people per planet (which is pretty low) at normal times.

 

There will be about 80 people on the Fleet at close to peak times.

 

Also, for those who que for Warzones, the Fleet allows the quickest access to the PVP Vendor, quests, the GTN, Flashpoints, and Operations.

 

And, the quickest load times.