Nerfing Muraders/Sents is not the answer....

[Individual]

I agree that these guys are op right now, but I don't think a nerf is going to fix it. People are just going to reroll the flavor of the month. I really think bioware should buff up the DPS classes they just nerfed imo. Why? Look what happened after the nerfs. Everyone is rerolling muraas/sents now. People were more happy with the classes before. Heck I even thought muras/sents were op before the nerfs, now their godlike due lack of DPS from the other classes.

 

I don't think some of the classes need to put back all way to where they were at before 1.2, but some of them need a jolt or something. Something needs to change though. It's gross seeing all the mura/sents in the warzones now.

[Darth_Philar]

If they simply removed/nerfed the Defensive CDs available to them then most of the problems would go away. They get insane burst, which is fine in my opinion, but they should actually take increased damage while doing the burst, not be immune or highly resistant to damage.

[unixbomber]

If they simply removed/nerfed the Defensive CDs available to them then most of the problems would go away.

It's true they would be dead the majority of time after being stunlocked. Problem resolved.

[cycao]

It's true they would be dead the majority of time after being stunlocked. Problem resolved.

 

Yeah I mean without the cooldowns they would be as squishy as deception/infiltration dps.

[Stongrel]

I agree that these guys are op right now, but I don't think a nerf is going to fix it.

Stopped reading right there. The "buff other classes instead" argument is pure fantasy.

[Darth_Philar]

It's true they would be dead the majority of time after being stunlocked. Problem resolved.

 

So on par with everyone else then? Sounds good to me.

[unixbomber]

Yeah I mean without the cooldowns they would be as squishy as deception/infiltration dps.

 

Make them as powerful as a hybrid tank specced assassin (who easily puts up higher damage when using appropriate gear - not to mention utility such as taunts, guard, etc.) and I don't think you'll have a single complaint from any marauder or sentinel.

So on par with everyone else then? Sounds good to me.

 

Denial's a river in Egypt.

Edited May 3, 2012 by unixbomber

[TheOpf]

It's true they would be dead the majority of time after being stunlocked. Problem resolved.

 

haha, I was thinking the same thing, but I do think their defensive God Modes should come with a damage penalty.

 

A well-geared good marauder will farm alot of people. I ran into the best Anni Marauder on my server. Full WH gear, I have a few pieces of WH gear. He killed me faster than I have ever died in this game ever. I fought him 5 times. He killed me every time. Best I could do was get him to halfway. I am a Powertech. I have two stuns, and I know how to kill a Marauder, but the great ones are nearly impossible. At least with other classes you feel like you have a shot, As a powertech the only guy we almost always get destroyed by are Snipers/Slingers. Freaking stun machines!

[Aetou]

It's true they would be dead the majority of time after being stunlocked. Problem resolved.

 

Like pretty much everyone else then? 4s is enough to kill almost anyone if you have 3dps focusing on them. Everyone else* has to deal with a low ttk, why should the strongest damage class not also have the same survivability issues?

 

*with the exception of Shadow Tanks in DPS gear.

[Twor]

You forget the PvE part of the game. If you buff all classes you have to readjust the complete game. Than another class gets buffed a little more than the rest so the rest must be buffed again etc etc.

Also try to imagine the ttk in WZs if all classes got a buff.

[vimm]

haha, I was thinking the same thing, but I do think their defensive God Modes should come with a damage penalty.

 

A well-geared good marauder will farm alot of people. I ran into the best Anni Marauder on my server. Full WH gear, I have a few pieces of WH gear. He killed me faster than I have ever died in this game ever. I fought him 5 times. He killed me every time. Best I could do was get him to halfway. I am a Powertech. I have two stuns, and I know how to kill a Marauder, but the great ones are nearly impossible. At least with other classes you feel like you have a shot, As a powertech the only guy we almost always get destroyed by are Snipers/Slingers. Freaking stun machines!

 

Stun machines? You mean that one melee stun?

[JediDuckling]

I agree that these guys are op right now, but I don't think a nerf is going to fix it. People are just going to reroll the flavor of the month. I really think bioware should buff up the DPS classes they just nerfed imo. Why? Look what happened after the nerfs. Everyone is rerolling muraas/sents now. People were more happy with the classes before. Heck I even thought muras/sents were op before the nerfs, now their godlike due lack of DPS from the other classes.

 

I don't think some of the classes need to put back all way to where they were at before 1.2, but some of them need a jolt or something. Something needs to change though. It's gross seeing all the mura/sents in the warzones now.

 

nerfing something thats overpowerd is the answer the only alternative would be to buff everything else.

[unixbomber]

haha, I was thinking the same thing, but I do think their defensive God Modes should come with a damage penalty.

 

A well-geared good marauder will farm alot of people. I ran into the best Anni Marauder on my server. Full WH gear, I have a few pieces of WH gear. He killed me faster than I have ever died in this game ever. I fought him 5 times. He killed me every time. Best I could do was get him to halfway. I am a Powertech. I have two stuns, and I know how to kill a Marauder, but the great ones are nearly impossible. At least with other classes you feel like you have a shot, As a powertech the only guy we almost always get destroyed by are Snipers/Slingers. Freaking stun machines!

 

On average using undying rage is going to give a marauder, factoring in GCD's, around two attacks (assuming 5 second duration with 1.5s GCD's) they may or may not have been able to get off before dying. I'm not disputing the fact you lost or that you know how to beat a marauder or that annihilation spec + undying rage isn't powerful but for marauders that do trait the other lines; they are in fact very squishy outside of their cooldowns. You can't take a 1v1 scenario and balance every aspect of the game. When I play my tank I protect the healer and I taunt the sents/maras and the lion becomes a kitten. I assure you I make them earn every second of that cooldown. Warzones and PvP in general are team focused currently and just because people don't utilize counters or traits available to them it isn't an indication the sky is falling. This isn't at you specifically but so many threads and comments I see are from people who clearly have no idea how to counter scenarios, ended up on a bad teams, made mistakes, whatever.

 

Like pretty much everyone else then? 4s is enough to kill almost anyone if you have 3dps focusing on them. Everyone else* has to deal with a low ttk, why should the strongest damage class not also have the same survivability issues?

 

*with the exception of Shadow Tanks in DPS gear.

 

Disappearing every 2 minutes with increased crowd control compared to damage reduction, at base every 90 seconds, with minimal crowd control and temporary stealth on my operative seems fair. I also heal and remove their dots and slows (on my sorc as well) - what class do you specifically have issues with? Having a channeled heal on a sin unable to be interrupted when used in conjuction with a 45s cooldown to prevent stuns/knockbacks seems rough to deal with. I challenge you to contribute feedback to the community, devs, mods, whoever on aspects of specific classes you find lacking over saying such and such needs to be removed or blanket "pretty much" everyone else is weak and somehow one skill saved the whales and won a warzone in under 5 seconds as seems to be the opinion of some.

Edited May 3, 2012 by unixbomber

[TheOpf]

On average using undying rage is going to give a marauder, factoring in GCD's, around two attacks (assuming 5 second duration with 1.5s GCD's) they may or may not have been able to get off before dying. I'm not disputing the fact you lost or that you know how to beat a marauder or that annihilation spec + undying rage isn't powerful but for marauders that do trait the other lines; they are in fact very squishy outside of their cooldowns. You can't take a 1v1 scenario and balance every aspect of the game. When I play my tank I protect the healer and I taunt the sents/maras and the lion becomes a kitten. I assure you I make them earn every second of that cooldown. Warzones and PvP in general are team focused currently and just because people don't utilize counters or traits available to them it isn't an indication the sky is falling. This isn't at you specifically but so many threads and comments I see are from people who clearly have no idea how to counter scenarios, ended up on a bad teams, made mistakes, whatever.

 

You must play a bunch of horrible Marauders. You have three times the defensive cooldowns as any PT and you do a bit more damage.

 

The Powertech is the only class that you should compare yourself too. You do comparable damage over the same time. The Powertech as two CC's both are broken pretty much immediately on contact, has a single defensive cooldown that mitigates 25 percent of damage and is on a 2 minute CD. TO get more cooldowns you must spec into the tank tree and give up damage. The Powertech has no self heals, and no method of avoiding a fight or escaping a fight at all.

 

Essentially you have all the damage of a Powertech with the defensive Cooldowns of a tank - that is the definition of overpowered. Powertechs are not ranged, they have Rail shot, rapid shots, and unload. Unload is channeled and worthless for Powertechs. Rapid shots is really weak, and rail shot is on a 15 sec CD.

 

So let's compare,

 

Powertechs have a gap closer on 45 second cd unless speccing to lose damage. Marauders have 2 gap closers - sprint and whatever the jump is.

 

Powertechs have no heals - you have 1 and 2 if specced.

 

Powertechs have one defensive Cooldown unless specced and lose significant damage- you have 3 and one is significantly better than Powertechs.

 

 

Powertechs have 2 CC's both break on damage - you have 1 CC and it deals damage.

 

They both do comparable damage.

 

Can you see the imbalance?

 

No one says Powertechs are overpowered. They say they are powerful but killable.

[ekimmak]

If they simply removed/nerfed the Defensive CDs available to them

 

Then Sentinels would cease to be viable in PVE.

[GrandMike]

It is the answer to bringing class in line with other classes.

 

Its the mess they created on their own, balance was much better pre 1,2, and needed few tweaks and small nerfs (like undying rage) and it would be fine.

 

But nooooo. BW:

"Hey lets imbalance the heck out of game"

"YEAH, that sounds like FUN!"

And thus 1,2 was born

[Niil]

Then Sentinels would cease to be viable in PVE.

 

Sorry I about spit on my keyboard. If every defensive cooldown was removed from marauders they'd still be overpowered in pve because they do significantly more damage than other damage dealers. Are you talking about class quests while leveling? Cause I can't fathom what you mean if you're not talking class quests. Even then, they wouldn't "cease to be viable".

[kweassa]

I agree that these guys are op right now, but I don't think a nerf is going to fix it. People are just going to reroll the flavor of the month. I really think bioware should buff up the DPS classes they just nerfed imo. Why? Look what happened after the nerfs. Everyone is rerolling muraas/sents now. People were more happy with the classes before. Heck I even thought muras/sents were op before the nerfs, now their godlike due lack of DPS from the other classes.

 

I don't think some of the classes need to put back all way to where they were at before 1.2, but some of them need a jolt or something. Something needs to change though. It's gross seeing all the mura/sents in the warzones now.

 

The basic principle of game balancing is to bring the sole Op back in line, rather than buff all the rest, since "buff all the rest to same levels" drags in a very messy power inflation crisis to the game.... not to mention that changing the relative balance of one class compared to others is a lot more reasonable and easy, rather than changing ALL other classes in comparison to that one OP class, which is bound to bring out individual balance problems for ALL classes now, instead of just one.

Edited May 4, 2012 by kweassa

[Odahviin]

Yeah I mean without the cooldowns they would be as squishy as deception/infiltration dps.

 

umm no, you get an invulnerable ablity that removes all effects and prevents knock backs cc or stuns. Plus you can stealth at will indefinitely and have more control over an opponent.

[Odahviin]

haha, I was thinking the same thing, but I do think their defensive God Modes should come with a damage penalty.

 

A well-geared good marauder will farm alot of people. I ran into the best Anni Marauder on my server. Full WH gear, I have a few pieces of WH gear. He killed me faster than I have ever died in this game ever. I fought him 5 times. He killed me every time. Best I could do was get him to halfway. I am a Powertech. I have two stuns, and I know how to kill a Marauder, but the great ones are nearly impossible. At least with other classes you feel like you have a shot, As a powertech the only guy we almost always get destroyed by are Snipers/Slingers. Freaking stun machines!

 

His defensive cooldown does come with a damage penalty, he has to sacrifice 50% of his health.

[RenegadeSLX]

Yeah I mean without the cooldowns they would be as squishy as deception/infiltration dps.

 

Mara/Sents can open from stealth so its all good.

 

Were never getting nerfed

 

Deal with it.

Edited May 4, 2012 by RenegadeSLX

[ShredderStatus]

Just because one tree (Focus) is unbalanced the entire class does not need to be nerfed and I have the same damage output as any other dps alt........ you guys are rediculous. Quit huttling in groups and I wont have to sweep you all away.

[unixbomber]

You must play a bunch of horrible Marauders. You have three times the defensive cooldowns as any PT and you do a bit more damage.

 

The Powertech is the only class that you should compare yourself too. You do comparable damage over the same time. The Powertech as two CC's both are broken pretty much immediately on contact, has a single defensive cooldown that mitigates 25 percent of damage and is on a 2 minute CD. TO get more cooldowns you must spec into the tank tree and give up damage. The Powertech has no self heals, and no method of avoiding a fight or escaping a fight at all.

 

Essentially you have all the damage of a Powertech with the defensive Cooldowns of a tank - that is the definition of overpowered. Powertechs are not ranged, they have Rail shot, rapid shots, and unload. Unload is channeled and worthless for Powertechs. Rapid shots is really weak, and rail shot is on a 15 sec CD.

 

So let's compare,

 

Powertechs have a gap closer on 45 second cd unless speccing to lose damage. Marauders have 2 gap closers - sprint and whatever the jump is.

 

Powertechs have no heals - you have 1 and 2 if specced.

 

Powertechs have one defensive Cooldown unless specced and lose significant damage- you have 3 and one is significantly better than Powertechs.

 

 

Powertechs have 2 CC's both break on damage - you have 1 CC and it deals damage.

 

They both do comparable damage.

 

Can you see the imbalance?

 

No one says Powertechs are overpowered.

They say they are powerful but killable.

 

Taunts and teamwork work equally well against both good and bad marauders. The powertech is the only class I should compare the marauder too? ...What? Powertech is a tank class with the ability to also trait for damage; the only class that can both trait to pull and leap to targets- I personally look at marauders the same way I do snipers. They can trait for damage, damage, or additionally damage. As marauders are melee damage with minimal cc, if they had no cooldowns they would be nuked and stunned from range before they could be of any use and this still can occur even with those skills. Likewise, as ranged damage, being able to be lept to while in cover on a sniper or not having skills like entrench would make snipers worthless. I had a powertech protecting me last night as I was healing and would have been dead several times without his help. Just because you can do damage doesn't necessarily mean its the best option for your team. It's funny how that kind of balance can work. I say marauders are powerful but killable.

[criminalheretic]

If they simply removed/nerfed the Defensive CDs available to them then most of the problems would go away. They get insane burst, which is fine in my opinion, but they should actually take increased damage while doing the burst, not be immune or highly resistant to damage.

 

Yeah remove the defensive CDs from a class with no real stuns, healing, knockbacks, cover, ranged attacks, or heavy armor. That would be super balanced...

[Schwiggiddy]

His defensive cooldown does come with a damage penalty, he has to sacrifice 50% of his health.

 

Dude a damage penalty is a Penalty to damage, like if the ability said "you deal 50% less damage for the duration." Losing half health is a cost, but that is a completely different thing from a damage penalty.