Premades are responsible for failed MMOs

[Ghamsar]

People want to play with other people in an MMO? Imagine that!

 

trolls...MMO is playing with others

 

pick a class, play that class....shouldn't matter what other classes are grouped with you.

[Draflorin]

yes you can. find 3 others that are the class or spec you want to team with and join up with them.

 

this is probably my last response in this thread. At this point you are either trolling hard or really just too stubborn to try to play the game as intended. If you don't like the idea of teamwork, then **** and play a single player game. Like you mentioned in your original post, maybe FPS's suit you better, but teams tend to do better in those as well. I'd recommend chess but you have to "exploit" your pieces with strategy that involves different types of pieces - you can't win with just your pawns. Maybe checkers? is that simplified enough for you?

 

im calling either trolling hard - or not equipped to understand. in the case of the former - good troll you got 18 pages and probably later on more GGTrololololol

[ChickenWangs]

You need to play a more recent MMO. Groups are where the best players come from. So what if you removed the abilities that give buffs? People still have coordination on their side. Get in a guild and stop complaining to the forums.

[kryptaaz]

dude its a online role playing game if you arent able to group up with other skilled players and learn continually how to improve your gameplay, i think you are rahter lost in a mmorp.

[Obtena]

trolls...MMO is playing with others

 

pick a class, play that class....shouldn't matter what other classes are grouped with you.

 

That's right, it doesn't ... so why is it so hard for you to accept that fact for people are grouping with each other for PVP? You complain about premades co-operating and owning you, then you make a statement like this. That's two-faced. Sounds to me like you have zero clue about what your issue actually is. Bottom line ... you can't cry about people outplaying you by grouping ... the most simple and accepted concept in an MMO.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Obtena

[Draflorin]

You need to play a more recent MMO. Groups are where the best players come from. So what if you removed the abilities that give buffs? People still have coordination on their side. Get in a guild and stop complaining to the forums.

 

im developing a theory on why hes not in a guild or doesn't have anyone to group with...

[Ghamsar]

Explain how evaluating your skill tree and making a few changes to compensate for current conditions = selling your soul?

.

 

I expect people to play the AC tree that they are most comfortable with and spend money respec'in til they find their build...Not re-roll or play a class that is OP on purpose(check fleet populations for comparison....should be 12.5% of each AC....anything more or less than that shows bias....Saber envy or AC OP/UP...there's a reason for the bias.

 

I do not want to chase viable ACs and utilize exploits to be a "player"....I want a game that is balanced(still don't know why people are against this) which each and every AC is equally viable.

 

The Devs make mistakes, Premades are the people who abuse those mistakes....and therefore ruin the game.

[Rhizoprionodon]

which means that people "HAVE TO" Group....to even have a chance...so IYO BW should remove "SOLO QUE" because those people are just wastes of space. Do you see how the reverse thinking Sucks?

 

I "solo que" often and don't have a problem. Sometimes my team doesn't get it together and we lose. Sometimes we manage to integrate our efforts and we win. Part of the fun of solo queing is the challenge of organizing your group. It's like you're thrown into an event and you either sink or swim. I have plenty of comms, am geared for PvP as I wish, and have fun rolling the tank or dps classes (haven't rolled others yet).

Edited May 3, 2012 by Rhizoprionodon
grammer

[Obtena]

I do not want to chase viable ACs and utilize exploits to be a "player"....I want a game that is balanced(still don't know why people are against this) which each and every AC is equally viable.

 

That's good, because you don't have to do that ... you just need to utilize your ability to team people to compete with other teams ... it's got nothing to do with what class you play.

[Antipodes]

The best part of MMOs is the teamwork. Otherwise the game mechanics are too simple. This game already gives classes too many solo tools so the skill cap is fairly low. Removing synergies will dumb down the game even more.

 

Honest question: have you tried more solo-oriented games like RTS/fighting games? These games are actually balanced for solo play and many are adopting a ELO system which will match you against the appropriate skill.

[Ghamsar]

That's good, because you don't have to do that ... you just need to utilize your ability to team people to compete with other teams ... it's got nothing to do with what class you play.

 

so group min/maxers are recruiting all ACs equally then?

 

Can't wait to get home and take screen shots....but of course that won't prove anything, and people will just make an excuse for it or say "so what! it's their choice" L2P

[Ghamsar]

Honest question: have you tried more solo-oriented games like RTS/fighting games? These games are actually balanced for solo play and many are adopting a ELO system which will match you against the appropriate skill.

 

no I haven't, seems boring...very boring. I'd be more for FPS even though I want the D&D lore story skill types and not just spraying bullets(even though that's even).

 

My ideal game would be character creation based on a Briggs-Meyers type personality test where actual decisions and kill styles made during the leveling process decided your end-game skill sets. You couldn't decide in advance what you wanted to be and just adjust pts accordingly. So similar to a SWTOR/KOTOR decision based game just where those desicions actually create your character and his/her respective abilities.....no re-rolling

[Draflorin]

I expect people to play the AC tree that they are most comfortable with and spend money respec'in til they find their build...Not re-roll or play a class that is OP on purpose(check fleet populations for comparison....should be 12.5% of each AC....anything more or less than that shows bias....Saber envy or AC OP/UP...there's a reason for the bias.

 

I do not want to chase viable ACs and utilize exploits to be a "player"....I want a game that is balanced(still don't know why people are against this) which each and every AC is equally viable.

 

The Devs make mistakes, Premades are the people who abuse those mistakes....and therefore ruin the game.

 

AHHH I SEE THE PROBLEM..... You have unrealistic expectations.... and flawed logic. you have an incorrect definition of Exploit (using the game mechanics legitimately is not exploiting)

 

Premades are for people who like organisation - team play - team strategy and cooperation and of course winning.

 

PUGs are for people who have no mates and don't want to work together for a desired end, thus failing hard...

 

If Charlie Sheen played SWTOR He would play in a premade - after all he is BI_WINNING!!!

 

Seriously though... do you really expect any skill tree profile to be equally viable in PVP?

Edited May 3, 2012 by Draflorin

[Ghamsar]

Seriously though... do you really expect any skill tree profile to be equally viable in PVP?

 

yeah, I do...

can be parsed balanced.... dmg/mitigation/heal....burst vs sustained (sustained higher over long run obviously)

stuns about the same with just differ animations

different conditions (slow/exhaustions/accuracy debuff/armor debuff)

 

but the balance in PVP iis the counters, interupts, and other not neccessarily dmg'ing abilities, but more pvp skill negations, timed blocks, reversals.

 

Tanks should have a "type" dmg mitigation ie +80% mitigation of Tech/force dmg, but in exchange takes +80% weapon dmg, but have the ability to quick switch the mitigation.

 

Heals...small dots are instant, all other direct heals are interuptable....healers passively group heal through the dmg they do(so they have to stay active in fights and not just Kite/burst heal/kite burst heal)

 

Debuffs of guards/shields...more about countering PvE abilities

 

AOEs hit way harder than other skills...and no one just sits in them...(more about interrupting rotations)

 

basically...how you counter someone else's abilities...determines how you do in PVP....not who has the best gear, not who's running unstoppable build duos.

 

Kinda Like in GW1:

Hit a tank with Scourge Healing...anyone healing the Tank would take a big chunk of dmg...which counters the trinity in PVP...easy things like this to keep group play in check.

 

and for example of that Gunslingers 3 trees are as follows:

 

MM tree would have the guard bubble remover

Sab has harder hitting AOE spell to make people move

DF has the scourge healing probe that goes onto enemy and when a heal is received shoots a lightning bolt to the healer dmging them for as much as they heal.

 

which is more important to you....is your decision but they are unique yet equally destructive/constructive.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Ghamsar

[Lugh]

I love this...yeah "better".

 

Dual stationary healers, healing though dmg....."better" :sigh:

 

Separate healer and tank kill tank while healer is interrupted/cc'd, then smash healer. It really is that simple.

[Criosdh]

People who think mmo's should reward soloing more than grouping are why mmos are failing. Is it really to hard to make one or 2 friends? "but I don't wanna" isn't a valid reason when asking for game changing design by the way. If you want to be rambo, play fps, otherwise teamplay matters. Oh and I personally solo queue about 5-10 games a day depending on schedule before you accuse me of being a premade user.

 

That is so short sighted lol.

 

Some of us work for our livings. Some of us have warm blooded women in our beds that we have reproduced with.

 

Not everyone lives in moms basement, not everyone works the bare minimum to keep the power and internet connection running and not everyone lives off TV dinners.

 

It's not as simple as finding friends. It's finding friends in the same time zone. Friends who want to play a particular role. Friends who have the same work schedule as you. Friends that can dedicate a set amount of time on a set date to play. That last factor alone is hard enough for the non 40 year old virgin types.

[Criosdh]

Yeah, the Horror , I mean it's MMO right, you are supposed to work "together"

 

Anyone play RIFT when they instituted "Group Ques"? And all your "premades" decided it was better to synchronize solo ques so that they could "premade" vs PUG again?

 

Yeah.....appears that the "premades" are FULL OF S....they don't want competition, they want to be GODS...and they "work together"...more like scheme/cheat together to roll others.

 

Don't believe me? All the Hacks="solo players"?

 

This is the funniest thing to me...you cheats.....If I google SWTOR Hacks....what is the name of the site that tops the page? ELITE PVPS

 

This right there tells you of the mindset of Premades, it's not competetion...its the desire to make it NO COMPETITION!

 

Oh now I'm going to hear..."yes, maybe some.....but I and my group"....just shut up. You want to be Gods...and will strive to be in situations where your dreams come to fruition. Cheat,scheme...all fair in your minds.

 

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH..........

 

Why do I laugh?

 

Because I love this post. It is exactly the same situation as with DAoC and the Rift example is a perfect example of what so many of these premade guild jerks are truly made of. In DAoC there were a bunch of 40 year old virgins running around in their "premades" claiming to have mad skillz because they could run down and kill stragglers between battle objectives. They didn't mind zerging down solo'ers and stragglers but when their premade got rolled by a larger force they wanted to whine and fuss and cry about the "zerg".

 

So Mythic gave them this one island set up perfectly for premades to roll around and have their group vs group combat. Guess where you rarely ever found a premade? On the island lol. I used to follow some of these premades around on my minstrel and I wish I had a penny for every time two "skilled" premades ran up on each other, dropped speed warp and ran in the opposite direction.

 

Guild gankers and their scheduled premades are some of the biggest whiners in the MMO industry. They're also the majority of the cheaters as well. These are also the losers that sit around in Illum like they did in Warhammer farming each other over and over to gear up faster.

 

They talk alot of smack about "skill" yet their entire strategy for winning is having some kind of advantage that isn't available to the others, whether it's farming each other to gear up better/faster, ventrilo for faster communication, or grouping up to stack abilities synergies. If getting a friend to come with you to a fight so he can hit your opponent from behind with a shovel every time you get knocked down is skill then well lol....................

 

I always thought the purpose of drug testing for the Olympics was to make sure the competition was done on a level playing field so it would be an actual test of SKILL.

 

 

people obviously must have never ran pve content that much.voice chat doesnt really make anything better

 

not to mention,i would quit this game day 1 of bioware implementing some voice chat system in there game.unless i didnt have to hear a bunch of mouthbreathers everytime i pvp'd

 

 

LMAO whaaaaaat? If people "ran more pve content" they'd see voice chat doesn't really make anything better lol? Yeah because being able to move around and activate skills while I take 2 seconds or less to say "west door" isn't any better than having to stop and not being able to activate skills while I type it out in chat and hope people read it in time. Because they are trying to focus on resources, enemies, etc, not reading.

 

Wow I like can't even believe you said it. Let me guess, you're to shy to talk in vent and that's why it's a stupid idea?

Edited May 3, 2012 by Criosdh

[Cormacus]

That is so short sighted lol.

 

Some of us work for our livings. Some of us have warm blooded women in our beds that we have reproduced with.

 

Not everyone lives in moms basement, not everyone works the bare minimum to keep the power and internet connection running and not everyone lives off TV dinners.

 

It's not as simple as finding friends. It's finding friends in the same time zone. Friends who want to play a particular role. Friends who have the same work schedule as you. Friends that can dedicate a set amount of time on a set date to play. That last factor alone is hard enough for the non 40 year old virgin types.

 

You sir, are my hero. Well put!

 

I belong to a healthy active guild for people over 30. I love PvP but myself like all our members have normal lives and getting a PvP premade going is very difficult. We manage to run scheduled operations twice a week but organizing more than that is just not possible. PUG PvP is what I have to do if I want to do any PvP, it suits my hours better as I can just login and queue up. Sometimes there are 1 or 2 guild members that I queue up which is great but most of the time I have do solo.

 

From my experience the people who do have time to dedicate majority of their day to Pre-mades are exactly the people described above. It's a minority of players who ruin the game for the majority. A small elitist group who often are the worst losers, the people who have a total fit if you do happen to win over them or god-forgive kill them in a match and will then always make a point of griefing you when they see you. Funny enough on our server it's also the same people who will only play the most favoured classes, switching whenever a new class is favoured more than another.

 

They must separate pre-mades from PUG's. It's not a fair playing field otherwise.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Cormacus

[Dratten]

I am amazed by all the QQ:ers that complain about the benefits of cooperating with your allies?

 

What are you thinking?

 

This game is a MULTIPLAYER GAME! A game based on the fact that cooperating should pay off! The fact that you can queu solo is good but it shouldnt be the goal that all players should qeue solo. That would be very stupid.

 

I am struggeling to keep calm because frankly your post is very naive.

 

If you want to play solo, nobody's stopping you! But you will never reap the benefits of cooperating with your teammates.

 

My advice for you is:

 

1. join a guild

2. find people within that guild that suits your playtimes and playstyle.

3. enjoy the cooperative gameplay.

 

And Bioware:

You have made a MMO, try to keep it that way. There is no shame in giving benefits to those who cooperate. In fact it should be promoted by incentives.

 

I still dont understand what the problem is with allowing full premades (8-man)? The incentive should be to cooperate with other players as much as you can. If solo qeue-ing results in losses, it will force players to group up with others. Nothing else! If you dont like playing with others then either qeue solo and accept the consequences or go play a solo-player game!

[Cormacus]

I am amazed by all the QQ:ers that complain about the benefits of cooperating with your allies?

 

What are you thinking?

 

This game is a MULTIPLAYER GAME! A game based on the fact that cooperating should pay off! The fact that you can queu solo is good but it shouldnt be the goal that all players should qeue solo. That would be very stupid.

 

I am struggeling to keep calm because frankly your post is very naive.

 

If you want to play solo, nobody's stopping you! But you will never reap the benefits of cooperating with your teammates.

 

My advice for you is:

 

1. join a guild

2. find people within that guild that suits your playtimes and playstyle.

3. enjoy the cooperative gameplay.

 

And Bioware:

You have made a MMO, try to keep it that way. There is no shame in giving benefits to those who cooperate. In fact it should be promoted by incentives.

 

I still dont understand what the problem is with allowing full premades (8-man)? The incentive should be to cooperate with other players as much as you can. If solo qeue-ing results in losses, it will force players to group up with others. Nothing else! If you dont like playing with others then either qeue solo and accept the consequences or go play a solo-player game!

 

You clearly belong to that elitist minority who can't cope with playing against other pre-mades because you will end up losing more. Where is the real sport or accomplishment in facing a PUG group with your pre-made? Do you think it's a fair and even game when your pre-made team face a PUG made up with all types of classes and possibly without any healer?

 

There is nothing wrong with pre-mades as long as they face other pre-made teams. Your argument makes no sense at all. No matter if it's a PUG or pre-made we're still cooperating towards winning a match together with other players, i.e. MMO.

 

But most importantly, without us the majority of players who don't belong to a super-elitist-premade team you would soon face a very empty game with no future. Alienate us and you're precious game will be no more.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Cormacus

[Darth_Sookie]

That is so short sighted lol.

 

Some of us work for our livings. Some of us have warm blooded women in our beds that we have reproduced with.

 

Not everyone lives in moms basement, not everyone works the bare minimum to keep the power and internet connection running and not everyone lives off TV dinners.

 

It's not as simple as finding friends. It's finding friends in the same time zone. Friends who want to play a particular role. Friends who have the same work schedule as you. Friends that can dedicate a set amount of time on a set date to play. That last factor alone is hard enough for the non 40 year old virgin types.

 

I have all of those things and so does many players in my guild and we always have a competetive premade or two running at most times.

 

I think it's time you stop blaiming everyone else and take a look at what you can do to improve your situation. If you can't find the time or lack the social skills to get a guild that's a good fit, then maybe you should'nt expect the game to cater to people like you.

[Seravis]

How can anyone possibly complain about how teams with teamwork triumphs over unorganized teams(can you even call them teams?)?

 

These forums are an absolute joke. I can only assume people are somehow running out of even remotely logical things to complain about, but they still want to complain about something.

[PloGreen]

That is so short sighted lol.

 

Some of us work for our livings. Some of us have warm blooded women in our beds that we have reproduced with.

 

Not everyone lives in moms basement, not everyone works the bare minimum to keep the power and internet connection running and not everyone lives off TV dinners.

 

It's not as simple as finding friends. It's finding friends in the same time zone. Friends who want to play a particular role. Friends who have the same work schedule as you. Friends that can dedicate a set amount of time on a set date to play. That last factor alone is hard enough for the non 40 year old virgin types.

 

What? So being that Iam married work 44 hours a week, and play in a band this somehow makes it impossible to make a group with people who enjoy the same game I do? That's a ludicrous thing to say. The problem rests with you and how you manage your time in and out of the game.

 

Calling people elitist because you are unable to make friends/form a group just makes you look foolish. If you don't have the time to play mmos don't be envious of those who use their brain and realise its a waste of their own time queing up with qqers.

Edited May 3, 2012 by PloGreen

[Dratten]

You clearly belong to that elitist minority who can't cope with playing against other pre-mades because you will end up losing more. Where is the real sport or accomplishment in facing a PUG group with your pre-made? Do you think it's a fair and even game when your pre-made team face a PUG made up with all types of classes and possibly without any healer?

 

There is nothing wrong with pre-mades as long as they face other pre-made teams. Your argument makes no sense at all. No matter if it's a PUG or pre-made we're still cooperating towards winning a match together with other players, i.e. MMO.

 

But most importantly, without us the majority of players who don't belong to a super-elitist-premade team you would soon face a very empty game with no future. Alienate us and you're precious game will be no more.

 

Well... stop pugging and start premading! What is the problem of playing the game as a multiplayer game?

[Dratten]

You clearly belong to that elitist minority who can't cope with playing against other pre-mades because you will end up losing more. Where is the real sport or accomplishment in facing a PUG group with your pre-made? Do you think it's a fair and even game when your pre-made team face a PUG made up with all types of classes and possibly without any healer?

 

There is nothing wrong with pre-mades as long as they face other pre-made teams. Your argument makes no sense at all. No matter if it's a PUG or pre-made we're still cooperating towards winning a match together with other players, i.e. MMO.

 

But most importantly, without us the majority of players who don't belong to a super-elitist-premade team you would soon face a very empty game with no future. Alienate us and you're precious game will be no more.

 

Your issue is clearly either:

 

1. you dont want to play organized with other players

or

2. You are one of those headless chickens running around in the warzones not knowing what to do!

 

Both cases can be fixed!

 

1. Stop playing PvP, because you do not understand what PvP is. It is about trying to beat the other team in as an efficiant way as possible. Being alone or in a premade is up to you! Both options have their benefits.

 

2. Play more and practice your rotations and tactics. It s true. IF you would know anything about your character you would have been invited to premades by now. So untill you know how to play, go play more!