Premades are responsible for failed MMOs

[angryca]

It is completely stupid to think the premade vs pug is a sensible way to build any sort of pvp. This game should have launched with cross server ques and a matchmaking system that worked instead of 10-15 people on each side queing against each other and tons of games against the same faction.

[Dratten]

It is completely stupid to think the premade vs pug is a sensible way to build any sort of pvp. This game should have launched with cross server ques and a matchmaking system that worked instead of 10-15 people on each side queing against each other and tons of games against the same faction.

 

Well, Bioware should promote premades.

 

The incentive to cooperate should be set higher than to play solo.

 

In the real world, do you think an individual has any chance of compeating against a large company?

 

Solution:

You get organized and you try to beat the competition. You dont whine about it being unfair. End of discussion!

[Orangerascal]

That is so short sighted lol.

 

Some of us work for our livings. Some of us have warm blooded women in our beds that we have reproduced with.

 

Not everyone lives in moms basement, not everyone works the bare minimum to keep the power and internet connection running and not everyone lives off TV dinners.

 

It's not as simple as finding friends. It's finding friends in the same time zone. Friends who want to play a particular role. Friends who have the same work schedule as you. Friends that can dedicate a set amount of time on a set date to play. That last factor alone is hard enough for the non 40 year old virgin types.

 

I know that you think achievements such as having a job, or getting a girl friend are a big deal, but the rest of us do it just fine and don't make a fuss about it. Not only that, but we can manage our diversion (fun time) as well as keep all our real life obligations.

 

Joining a premade is as simple as looking for people with the same interests (a guild), and spending 5 minutes in asking to join them.

[eelmac]

I've seen plenty of premades be the living stool out of pugs but I've also seen it happen the other way around... All you have to do is play as a team and stop going to the best possible score, work together

[unicornfive]

I've seen plenty of premades be the living stool out of pugs but I've also seen it happen the other way around... All you have to do is play as a team and stop going to the best possible score, work together

 

Premades are fun .

Just w8 to see ranked wzs. Marauders getting guarded by tankassins and having 3 healers in their premade...

Gonna be so fun. Subscriptions will drop to half in no time.

[Dratten]

I dont understand the reasoning behind the opinions that you want to limit the possibility to group.

 

So you want to remove premades and force all players to qeue solo? Just becaus you dont have the will to actually talk to the players around you and form your own premade? This is really stupid and it counters the meaning of playing PvP in an mmo..

[angryca]

Well, Bioware should promote premades.

 

The incentive to cooperate should be set higher than to play solo.

 

In the real world, do you think an individual has any chance of compeating against a large company?

 

Solution:

You get organized and you try to beat the competition. You dont whine about it being unfair. End of discussion!

 

They should not promote premades. They should not promote solo play. They should promote fun. They want people to purchase their product/service and the way you do that is by giving the customer what they want. If they want to give premades some sort of rewards so their is some incentive (beyond COMPETING) to do it great. Why should a solo player care?

 

Again - it is stupid to have premades fighting pugs.

Edited May 3, 2012 by angryca

[DuriZap]

Premades are fun .

Just w8 to see ranked wzs. Marauders getting guarded by tankassins and having 3 healers in their premade...

Gonna be so fun. Subscriptions will drop to half in no time.

 

At the time they introduce ranked WZ's, this game will be dead. Enjoy PvP as it is now, because it will not get better overall.

[mjackman]

I stopped reading when I reached that bit of the first post^.

 

You're either against 4 really, REALLY bad DPS players, or you're thinking pre 1.2 nerf of the Sorcerer Healers.

 

There's no chance in hell a single healer can keep any character alive while 4 DPS rain hell on him/her. Pre 1.2 I used to get maybe 12k+ healing done in about 4-5 seconds, assuming things were cooled down and proc'd. Post 1.2 I can probably only hit around 7-8k in the same amount of time - if I don't get interrupted and I'm left alone.

 

Couple either situation with, let's say, 4k crits from 2 of them, and 2k normals from the other 2, you're already negating the pre-1.2 healing with 4 DPS using 1 skill each (in a total of 2-3 seconds, whereas the healing takes longer).

 

Bad DPS = twisted views on healing/defense capabilities.

 

^^Yep.

[unicornfive]

I dont understand the reasoning behind the opinions that you want to limit the possibility to group.

 

So you want to remove premades and force all players to qeue solo? Just becaus you dont have the will to actually talk to the players around you and form your own premade? This is really stupid and it counters the meaning of playing PvP in an mmo..

 

Give us option to choose if we wanna compete vs solo ppl or vs premades...

And premade is not to ask random noobs with questionable skills to join you...

It has no difference than joining solo, cause the same ppl that u asked for wz, will end up in your team again.

[Skitlz]

"Well, bye!" I quit, Premades 1-Me 0

 

 

 

Is there no way to design a game where players can play with each other w/o OP benefits from the synergy between classes?

 

Guarding healers, chain stun locks, friendly pulling, group speed burst,tandem sleep darts,..etc,etc....exploited skills.

 

Is it that hard to see how PvE skills will be abused in PvP?

 

Maybe i should just play FPS's...head shot's kill..EVERYONE..but this Jug+healer taking on 4 dps...is IMO a completely broken and abused model.

 

Excuse me, but aren't more people playing Solo (solo WZ ques) than Group ques(premade)?

 

So PVP devs design PvP where group play trumps all? Seems Bass Ackwards.

 

 

How about tanks can only guard themselves? balance around take less dmg/do less dmg....take more dmg/do more dmg

 

Maybe Healers' Healing should come directly from their own HP...let them have 31 pt skills that give them +500 endurance or 20k HP, but every time that they Heal it comes directly from their pool and they only can heal others, only dmg they do replenishes their own HP. (just a thought)

 

In my view, PvP is broken if 8 random ACs =/= 8 other random ACs

 

I don't exactly know why people say that there shouldn't' be 1 vs 1 balance without synergies, besides their own bias...But I've got too little time to waste on FOTM builds and tag teaming stunlocks.

 

see yall around..for maybe 46 more days. but I don't want to see another 2Jug/2OP healers with 4 assassins or marauders picking up the slack....from the boards, I can see I am not alone. From the ques and quits, i can see that I am not alone.

 

So go ahead and make your snide comments, how everyone from 14 to 60 y/o should be playing in premades to have "fun", or whatever ridiculous justification you have concocted to justify broken. I don't care anymore, i'm out.

 

Sound like Forever ALone Guy

 

Do you honestly not have ANY Friends to play with?

[DarthKhaos]

Think about what you just put down

 

Tank/Sins and other DPSTanks are what exactly? They are manipulated exploits that the premades are specifically running to escalate imbalance.

 

So 2 players Heals+DPS/Tank become 2.5 or 3 players....a premade group running 2 Jugs in DPS gear with 4 marauders and 2 Operheals become like 12 players versus 8 due to the imbalances exploited.

 

That composition of 8 players is not = to a composition of 8 random classes (say 8 snipers)...showing that there is an imbalance within classes, synergies exploited, and premades purposefully do this which causes the problems of people getting fed up and quitting.

 

As another poster said " it's human nature" to min/max....maybe so. I guess MMOs are relegated to the lowest common denominator....is that the trash exploiters or is the the trash development with no foresight into how build will be exploited?

 

See the forums...am I the only one crying foul over certain builds? Why are we all picking on certain ACs?

Dude you got any idea what you're saying? Man I feel sorry for you. And FYI I've been in a huttball match against ONLY snipers and tracer missile mercs. Let's say no one was alive long enough to make a difference in the game.

 

You seem to think that having a Tanksin + heal or Juggy tank with DPS gear + Heals means a whole lot in this game.

 

2 Marauders or two Pyro PT's would kill both of those setups...

 

As for why people run Tanksins or Juggies, It really has zero to do with guarding a Healer, and entirely to do with one Match and One match alone, Huttball.

 

Those 2 classes are the best ball runners in the game..

This is a serious misconception. The best ball carrier is AIR. Meaning PASS THE BALL. Think about it. the teams that win the match isn't the team that has a super ball runner from mid to goal it's the team that gets the ball passes the ball gets the ball passes the ball. It's fast, avoids environmental hazards, can go up levels and can't be killed in transit. Only if you're knocked away or killed or the person makes a bad pass toy lose the ball.

 

That is so short sighted lol.

 

Some of us work for our livings. Some of us have warm blooded women in our beds that we have reproduced with.

 

Not everyone lives in moms basement, not everyone works the bare minimum to keep the power and internet connection running and not everyone lives off TV dinners.

 

It's not as simple as finding friends. It's finding friends in the same time zone. Friends who want to play a particular role. Friends who have the same work schedule as you. Friends that can dedicate a set amount of time on a set date to play. That last factor alone is hard enough for the non 40 year old virgin types.

Haha Sex. The ultimate premade.

Edited May 3, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[Brimmer]

Pre-mades should NEVER be with pugs; it's just stupid. That being sad; I stomp many pre-mades and I always pug; it's just an unfair advantage having team work vs a gamble to have a fail or a good team.

[Criosdh]

I have all of those things and so does many players in my guild and we always have a competetive premade or two running at most times.

 

I think it's time you stop blaiming everyone else and take a look at what you can do to improve your situation. If you can't find the time or lack the social skills to get a guild that's a good fit, then maybe you should'nt expect the game to cater to people like you.

 

Awesome, Clara from "The Guild" is on TOR now.

 

I know that you think achievements such as having a job, or getting a girl friend are a big deal, but the rest of us do it just fine and don't make a fuss about it. Not only that, but we can manage our diversion (fun time) as well as keep all our real life obligations.

 

Joining a premade is as simple as looking for people with the same interests (a guild), and spending 5 minutes in asking to join them.

 

Yeah I'm sure you have all that.

 

If any of you so called family and gaming jugglers who walk an hour to work and then back everyday while working 60 hours a week weren't really cold pizza eating virgins then you'd know simply having the left over time for gaming is not the same thing as having enough left over time that you can match your schedule with someone else and then play during that time UNINTERRUPTED.

 

If you super dads and moms know of someway to gurantee your child sleeps peacefully all the time or will go to bed at the same exact time every night, or that a girl or friend won't call needing something or you won't have to stay over from work late, etc then by all means let the rest of us amateurs know.

 

The problem with being in a pre-made is that you need to be dependable and consistent and persistent none of which is readily available in any capacity to someone with an engaging job, a family, friends and other responsibilities. If you can't meet at a certain time on certain days and play uninterrupted then it defeats the pre-made. You see, I haven't always had a family, etc.

 

So in short, stop talking out of your bungholes. If it inflates it ain't a girlfriend, if it goes into the microwave you didn't "make" dinner and if you had to paint it before it started running around in circles screaming "choo choo" then it isn't children. So spare me your horsepoop rebutles about how you're in the same situation as the rest of us. Because it's painfully obvious you're not and are just talking out of your azzes when you do it.

 

Is it possible to have enough time left over for gaming in our situation? YES. Is it possible to have ENOUGH spare time that you can match it up with someone else and do it regularly and uninterrupted on a set schedule? NO. So stop trying to blow that smoke up our buttz.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Criosdh

[bakedpotter]

See ya! Next time read about what playing a massively MULTIPLAYER game is all about.

That is if you can see well enough to read with all those tears and all.

[V-Serp]

This is a serious misconception. The best ball carrier is AIR. Meaning PASS THE BALL. Think about it. the teams that win the match isn't the team that has a super ball runner from mid to goal it's the team that gets the ball passes the ball gets the ball passes the ball. It's fast, avoids environmental hazards, can go up levels and can't be killed in transit. Only if you're knocked away or killed or the person makes a bad pass toy lose the ball.

 

No this is wrong. Guardian Leap is far better than passing because the range is longer, it's quicker, it provides a buff and you get perfect placement if you're doing it right. Passing is slower and does work but only against weaker teams that don't pay attention or you can easily overpower. The problem with passing also is that nobody really understands how the game rolls for who gets the pass in a crowd. It's too risky to throw a pass when there is an enemy, even stunned. But a Jugg/Guardian can just leap to the ally (or even the enemy if there is no ally!) and get the score.

 

Maras can also at least get the leap part, and then have defensive cooldowns that can get you across the goal line, especially if your resolve bar is up or high and if you have a CC breaker.

[Odahviin]

Awesome, Clara from "The Guild" is on TOR now.

 

 

 

Yeah I'm sure you have all that.

 

If any of you so called family and gaming jugglers who walk an hour to work and then back everyday while working 60 hours a week weren't really cold pizza eating virgins then you'd know simply having the left over time for gaming is not the same thing as having enough left over time that you can match your schedule with someone else and then play during that time UNINTERRUPTED.

 

If you super dads and moms know of someway to gurantee your child sleeps peacefully all the time or will go to bed at the same exact time every night, or that a girl or friend won't call needing something or you won't have to stay over from work late, etc then by all means let the rest of us amateurs know.

 

The problem with being in a pre-made is that you need to be dependable and consistent and persistent none of which is readily available in any capacity to someone with an engaging job, a family, friends and other responsibilities. If you can't meet at a certain time on certain days and play uninterrupted then it defeats the pre-made. You see, I haven't always had a family, etc.

 

So in short, stop talking out of your bungholes. If it inflates it ain't a girlfriend, if it goes into the microwave you didn't "make" dinner and if you had to paint it before it started running around in circles screaming "choo choo" then it isn't children. So spare me your horsepoop rebutles about how you're in the same situation as the rest of us. Because it's painfully obvious you're not and are just talking out of your azzes when you do it.

 

Is it possible to have enough time left over for gaming in our situation? YES. Is it possible to have ENOUGH spare time that you can match it up with someone else and do it regularly and uninterrupted on a set schedule? NO. So stop trying to blow that smoke up our buttz.

 

ummm just because you have difficulties finding the time to premade doesn't mean everyone does. You should save some of vitriol in your post for someone in your RL.

 

It's a game dude.

 

I premade with fellow guildies - we are by no means hardcore we all have lives famlies and friends. What brings us all together is voice comms. We have an open chat room which people can pop into anytime. There are no constraints or requirements and i like to think we are all good pvpers.

 

I enjoy swtor pvp so much more because of it and i can only suggest you attempt to make the time to give it a try. If not thats fine but give the rest of us a break.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Odahviin

[Ghamsar]

Premades are fun .

Just w8 to see ranked wzs. Marauders getting guarded by tankassins and having 3 healers in their premade...

Gonna be so fun. Subscriptions will drop to half in no time.

 

1. Does anyone believe that there are more premades than PUGS? So all this talking down to people who don't group is basically bashing the majority of the player base...right?

 

2. The "fun" part of premades is winning. If a premade group losses a few "ranked" WZs...will those "friends" continue to want to work as a team? If they do, they will just synchronize solo ques to pre vs pug again. I promise you this will happen.

 

3. So I'm supposed to see a group of people pwning a WZ and then say "Can i be your friend?" ...No I say "Can yall wait til Ranked? Go do some FPs or something."..they usually have some choice words for me or I am on their ignore list.

[Tathais]

For what it's worth, FPS games aren't any better if a group of people join the same team and communicate over VoIP. The only thing that can counter coordination is better coordination.

[Ghamsar]

For what it's worth, FPS games aren't any better if a group of people join the same team and communicate over VoIP. The only thing that can counter coordination is better coordination.

 

well one nade can wipe group movers

 

these premades that Hug healers.....what can you do by yourself? I try to circle to clump melee, flash bang...then pop everything and burn healer....if anyone has their CC breaker, the plan doesn't work.....I die regardless, but I love taking out the healer before I go..which does happen 1 out of 8 times I bust a group.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Ghamsar

[DarthKhaos]

No this is wrong. Guardian Leap is far better than passing because the range is longer, it's quicker, it provides a buff and you get perfect placement if you're doing it right. Passing is slower and does work but only against weaker teams that don't pay attention or you can easily overpower. The problem with passing also is that nobody really understands how the game rolls for who gets the pass in a crowd. It's too risky to throw a pass when there is an enemy, even stunned. But a Jugg/Guardian can just leap to the ally (or even the enemy if there is no ally!) and get the score.

 

Maras can also at least get the leap part, and then have defensive cooldowns that can get you across the goal line, especially if your resolve bar is up or high and if you have a CC breaker.

Know what makes passing better? No cooldown, points towards medals, forces the enemy to change target which sometimes can be quite a pain esp if the person was stealthed before and appears @ the moment of the pass, ALL classes can do it and did I mention no cooldown?

[Ghamsar]

Know what makes passing better? No cooldown, points towards medals, forces the enemy to change target which sometimes can be quite a pain esp if the person was stealthed before and appears @ the moment of the pass, ALL classes can do it and did I mention no cooldown?

 

but you can be stunned, chain stunned, grappled, pushed, pulled, knocked back

 

you can pass, but the guy runs away from the ball(wasn't looking)

 

 

its just better to pop whatever you need to pop.....run superfast through fire, immune to CCs, leap up, leap down, score.

 

Psssht....why do things the hard way when you can group exploit? You FAIL

[Blloodbane]

I can understand the frustration of premades when you pug, and not everyone is in a guild (nor wants to leave their guild) that PVP's a lot. I had it happen to me last night, a particular republic premade group comes in and just owns most of the time. Because their side has a lighter population this is what you see most of the time and the imps are more populated and since 1.2 there is a **** load of new people in pvp... beyond gear, most are clueless about the post 50 PVP game and dont know the maps nor the place in the WZ and huge learning curve. So PUGS lose against them a lot...

 

With that said, I just log and take a break if I get too frustrated, but most of the time even against them I am still getting 7 to 10 medals and 60 to 80+ comms, so in the long run it doesnt really matter.

 

Personally, premades IMHO should only be allowed in rated WZ's, but like i said earlier, the Pub side is light so they would probably still end up mostly forming together anyway.

[Tathais]

well one nade can wipe group movers

 

these premades that Hug healers.....what can you do by yourself? I try to circle to clump melee, flash bang...then pop everything and burn healer....if anyone has their CC breaker, the plan doesn't work.....I die regardless, but I love taking out the healer before I go..which does happen 1 out of 8 times I bust a group.

 

It doesn't sound like a very smart group (in an FPS) that stands together

 

As I said, it comes down to strategy. The bottom line is, in almost any game you can face organization and unless you have it yourself, you can't win. One person against 4 is just not possible (I don't think you can group up with 8 right now, can you?).

 

The best you can do in a pug is try to do useful things. In SWTOR, that means interrupting heals, messing up DPS, breaking captures, etc... If the entire team is hugging a healer and your team is off doing god knows what, there's not much you can do about it period. But if your team is in the mix doing stuff, just in an uncoordinated way, look for opportunities.

 

The alternative is look for common people in your games and ask if they want to step it up a bit. I've added a few people to my friends list doing just this. You may not be top notch and will still lose to the hardcore groups, but you'll have a lot better experience. Keep in mind the alternative isn't much better. WoW is a game where they have a high enough population and good group matching so that if you queue solo, you'll likely end up in a game with no groups on the opposite team. Those games tend to be unorganized messes.... kinda like herding cats. Nobody watches objectives and they all tend to chase someone all over the map trying (and failing) to get that kill. Honestly, I find a 20 minute match full of 10 year olds with ADD a lot more frustrating than a 4 minute match where I get stomped by a premade.

 

Personal preference though.

[DarthKhaos]

I can understand the frustration of premades when you pug, and not everyone is in a guild (nor wants to leave their guild) that PVP's a lot. I had it happen to me last night, a particular republic premade group comes in and just owns most of the time. Because their side has a lighter population this is what you see most of the time and the imps are more populated and since 1.2 there is a **** load of new people in pvp... beyond gear, most are clueless about the post 50 PVP game and dont know the maps nor the place in the WZ and huge learning curve. So PUGS lose against them a lot...

 

With that said, I just log and take a break if I get too frustrated, but most of the time even against them I am still getting 7 to 10 medals and 60 to 80+ comms, so in the long run it doesnt really matter.

 

Personally, premades IMHO should only be allowed in rated WZ's, but like i said earlier, the Pub side is light so they would probably still end up mostly forming together anyway.

But you don't need to be in a guild to be a part of a premade. Most of the "premades" (which is a partial premade because you can't assemble a full 8 man premade yet) I've been in is not with my guild mates. Friends is one way to go, people you've noticed in PvP matches with you previously or even General Chat are sources of people to party with to queue up.