[Sage] Healing feels pointless.

[Tathais]

Hey all. I'm going to preface this thread with something... if you find you can't get past it, stop reading and move along. This is a hefty dose of personal experience and opinion since 1.2 launched. I've held off posting until now to give it a try and these are my thoughts. I'm sure this won't stop the flamers but what can you do?

 

THE THING: I'm currently level 45. Yes, I'm not level 50. *gasp* I kno rite? Well you see, us non 50's are people too, and PvP is available to use for 40 whole levels, so my thinking is that it should be reasonably balanced or disallowed. Furthermore, from what I read I have a pretty big gear grind ahead of me when I get to level 50 and even at the end of it, it's not gonna get much better.

 

Anyhoo, moving right along. I'm one of those Sages who, post 1.2, tried to stick with it. Iv'e continued to try to heal and be effective in Warzones but it just seems as though I can't. My numbers seem good but frankly, it's all I can do to keep myself alive through a single dps. Two and I'm done for extremely quickly... I can't even hold out for help. I've also noticed that DPS have started to ignore me and just burn down targets because my healing is so laughable that it can be ignored. Know what else is funny? My healing done in a WZ is actually reasonably close to what it was pre-patch. I do spend considerably more time healing myself but when I flat out spam heals on a person I just can't seem to keep them alive. I've also noticed that the best I can do is an extremely lucky 4k healing trance (4x 1k ticks) whereas I seem to be taking a lot of hits in very quick succession adding up to 5k or more. Heck a marauder crit me for 4.7k the other day which is a good 40% of my life. Consider that this 4.7k crit was immediately preceded by several other high damaging abilities. Maybe DPS went up across the board outside the expertise bonus, I don't know... the bottom line is, I just can't keep up.

 

I'm a reasonably good healer. I've been doing it in other MMOs for many years and flashpoints aren't very much challenge. I know all my abilities and buttons, I keep myself shielded, I interrupt and cc where possible. I gear myself appropriately. I just can't seem to keep myself and others alive. So my question is, what's the point of healing at all? I've spec'd DPS a few times "just to see" and have found myself to be way more effective. Things die, we do better. You'd think providing heals as a support role for my team would add value, but so far as I can tell if one DPS can beat me easily then I'm not adding anything. I'm actually subtracting value because not only am I not able to heal, I'm taking away from a DPS spot.

 

So here's what I'm asking for, Bioware. Announce your intentions. If you want healing to be a viable part of PvP in this game, say so and give us a hint that you'e working on it. Otherwise, tell us that you want PvP to be DPS and tank only. Honestly, it's your game so you tell us... my subscription is just one in a bucket but I know that I want to play one of those types of games and don't want to play the other. If you go with the one I don't want to play I'll move on, no harm done.

 

(As mentioned above, I've heard it's not much better at 50. Give me hope, SWTOR community. Tell me it will get better and maybe it'll be a bit easier to bear. That said, it shouldn't be so much to ask to balance things a bit more in the levelling brackets. It's not like they couldn't make changes to that bracket only and leave level 50 alone.)

 

Signed,

An extremely frustrated healer.

[Ahhmyface]

Healing wins games. If you're healing correctly and it's not working, it's probably not you, it's probably your team failing to taunt, cc, and protect their members.

 

Try to get a pocket tank to help you out, and make your groupmates aware you need protection.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Ahhmyface

[Kellour]

The fact remains that Bioware has a problem on their hands: Necessary or not, the changes to TTK in PVP have some, if not many healers feeling like their role is no longer fun. When a game stops being fun, people will move on to something that is. I am not saying that changes and balances to healers wasn't needed, just that the perception/feeling held by many right now is that Healing is a lot less fun across the board and thats a problem only Bioware can fix. Edited May 1, 2012 by Kellour
typos

[Racter]

Bad teammates most likely. There are many games for me where my healer keeps me up 2v5 and I keep her alive the whole match. I honestly think having a pocket tank is probably less useful overall than having a pocket DPS. I can't count the number of times I get ignored and they try and burn my healer. By the time she even needs to worry about her health I've killed all of them 9/10.

 

Unfortunately when it goes the other way and they ignore her to burn me, it doesn't always work out so well. Depends what CDs I have up mostly.

[Draequin]

I feel your pain. I'm a level 50 sage fully specc'ed to heal. Prior to 1.2 I had 50% champ/50% battlemaster gear and considered myself to be a good healer. Not the best-but far from the worst. Sage is the only class I've played even being a part of beta for 3 months so think I know the class pretty well as far as cc'ing, running when necessary and of course healing multiples without aoe heal bomb.

 

After 1.2 there was definitely a reduction in everything for a sage meaning healing ability and survivability. Certain classes can chew me up in 3 to 4 hits while not one class am I a threat to 1 vs 1. However I do beleive this has actually made me a smarter player by forcing me to expand my style of play. I tend to make much better use of line of sight. I no longer run with the group-I run behind the group. Before a warzone starts I'll ask a tank where he's going and say im following him-this usually generates a guard bubble for me. All in all its just a matter of taking your talent to a higher level inorder to be that much more viable. Another thing I've noticed is there arent as many healers now in general (beleive this was stated above as well) so being one means your team appreciates your efforts that much more. Many matches now I find I am the sole healer where as before I could be one of four.

 

In summary I'd say hang in there, continue to progress with armor (it really does make all the difference) and Bioware will eventually get caught up with the healer spec's. Good luck to ya.

[ugig]

As a level 41 full heal spec sage, I know your situation. Some tips that I have found the hard way, start healing before you or your target gets below 90%, I find it easier to keep up a target longer that way, and the longer you keep the target up the better chance the ADD"HD adle brained dps will lose interest and leap to a new target. Stack your heals, by this i mean place your aoe heal, then HoT and bubble then channel healing trance, doing this can heal a lot of damage over the time that these things are up. I pretty much took the long cast big heal completely off of my bars.

 

My standard rotation Bubble (if you can) HoT, AoE heal, Healing Trance, HoT <rinse and repeat as CD's are up throw the fast cast heal when the rest are on CD> Doing this I can keep people up decently, but I do run out of force a lot.

[Tathais]

I appreciate the tips guys, I really do. I am doing these things though and it seems that it doesn't help. Some games are actually fine but those are the games where our team is topping DPS so I suspect that the other team isn't very well geared or doesn't know how to play very well. On teams where it's mixed, I quite literally get run over.

 

To the guy above who talked about adapting the way he plays. Kudos to you! I've done the same and feel I'm actually reasonably effective but it's still not enough. I certainly can't shake melee unless they're silly enough to stand beside a ledge so I can knock them off, but past that there's no escaping. For every escape I have, they have a gap closer. Which is fine, I'm actually ok with that, but I should be able to heal myself through it as well as throw some heals to my team.

 

As it is, one good dps is more than my heals can muster. Keep in mind that anybody worth their salt is interrupting. Pre 1.2 felt like a good balance, this feels like a waste of time and a detriment to my team. Despite the 250k - 300k healing I do every WZ, which is always top and more than I've seen anybody else do on either side. As I said, BW needs to decide what they want here. If their vision of their game does't align with what I like then say so, I'll move on. But I came here pre 1.2 and liked what I say, now it's been changed on me. At the very least, give me a heads up. If you say, "Yes, we know it's kinda iffy right now." I'll happily wait it out. But right now they haven't said anything so it sounds like they're fine with the state of healing.

 

Well, at least I have hutball...

[unixbomber]

My friend has played his sage daily since 1.2 dropped and hit 700k healing last night. He dies a lot. He doesn't cry or complain when he does die; from a team perspective his contribution is significantly noticeable. Having a vanguard with protection is also huge. Join a guild, make friends, embrace the teamwork aspect of an MMO. Diversity in group makeups is underrated. There have been a lot of solid games happening lately.

[Aluo]

Healing in this game is so unrewarding atm.

 

I really feel it is time to remove the -30% healing debuff in WZs

[Stongrel]

Healing in this game is so unrewarding atm.

 

I really feel it is time to remove the -30% healing debuff in WZs

Trauma is there for a valid reason, and needs to remain so. TTK needs to be reverted back to pre-1.2

[Antipodes]

Hate to break it to you, but surviving as a level 50 sage healer is a whole lot harder than at 45. Sage healing in the level 40 range is OP.

[Tathais]

Hate to break it to you, but surviving as a level 50 sage healer is a whole lot harder than at 45. Sage healing in the level 40 range is OP.

 

This does indeed scare me. If Sage healing in the 40 bracket is OP we must be useless in the 50 bracket.

[Odahviin]

Hey all. I'm going to preface this thread with something... if you find you can't get past it, stop reading and move along. This is a hefty dose of personal experience and opinion since 1.2 launched. I've held off posting until now to give it a try and these are my thoughts. I'm sure this won't stop the flamers but what can you do?

 

THE THING: I'm currently level 45. Yes, I'm not level 50. *gasp* I kno rite? Well you see, us non 50's are people too, and PvP is available to use for 40 whole levels, so my thinking is that it should be reasonably balanced or disallowed. Furthermore, from what I read I have a pretty big gear grind ahead of me when I get to level 50 and even at the end of it, it's not gonna get much better.

 

Anyhoo, moving right along. I'm one of those Sages who, post 1.2, tried to stick with it. Iv'e continued to try to heal and be effective in Warzones but it just seems as though I can't. My numbers seem good but frankly, it's all I can do to keep myself alive through a single dps. Two and I'm done for extremely quickly... I can't even hold out for help. I've also noticed that DPS have started to ignore me and just burn down targets because my healing is so laughable that it can be ignored. Know what else is funny? My healing done in a WZ is actually reasonably close to what it was pre-patch. I do spend considerably more time healing myself but when I flat out spam heals on a person I just can't seem to keep them alive. I've also noticed that the best I can do is an extremely lucky 4k healing trance (4x 1k ticks) whereas I seem to be taking a lot of hits in very quick succession adding up to 5k or more. Heck a marauder crit me for 4.7k the other day which is a good 40% of my life. Consider that this 4.7k crit was immediately preceded by several other high damaging abilities. Maybe DPS went up across the board outside the expertise bonus, I don't know... the bottom line is, I just can't keep up.

 

I'm a reasonably good healer. I've been doing it in other MMOs for many years and flashpoints aren't very much challenge. I know all my abilities and buttons, I keep myself shielded, I interrupt and cc where possible. I gear myself appropriately. I just can't seem to keep myself and others alive. So my question is, what's the point of healing at all? I've spec'd DPS a few times "just to see" and have found myself to be way more effective. Things die, we do better. You'd think providing heals as a support role for my team would add value, but so far as I can tell if one DPS can beat me easily then I'm not adding anything. I'm actually subtracting value because not only am I not able to heal, I'm taking away from a DPS spot.

 

So here's what I'm asking for, Bioware. Announce your intentions. If you want healing to be a viable part of PvP in this game, say so and give us a hint that you'e working on it. Otherwise, tell us that you want PvP to be DPS and tank only. Honestly, it's your game so you tell us... my subscription is just one in a bucket but I know that I want to play one of those types of games and don't want to play the other. If you go with the one I don't want to play I'll move on, no harm done.

 

(As mentioned above, I've heard it's not much better at 50. Give me hope, SWTOR community. Tell me it will get better and maybe it'll be a bit easier to bear. That said, it shouldn't be so much to ask to balance things a bit more in the levelling brackets. It's not like they couldn't make changes to that bracket only and leave level 50 alone.)

 

Signed,

An extremely frustrated healer.

 

I come across terrible healers who I can kill easily, I also come across really skilled healers in the sub 50 bracket who I just can't kill without a team mate or 2.

 

I mean what are these skilled healers doing? they have access to the same skill set as the rest of us.

 

You can't judge 1.2 by the previous patches, before we had it way too easy. On my sage I had absolutely no difficulty face tanking 3 dps almost indefinitely until help arrived. While it was enjoyable laughing at 3 dps players attempting to out dps my self heals it was also stupidly unbalanced.

 

I think it's fairly balanced in 1.2 there is now a greater emphasis on team play for healers. Further the future unassailable pvp premades are comprised of 2 main heals (sorc / sages) and 2 off heals (commando / mercenary) it has become a war of attrition in the higher brackets.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Odahviin

[Bluetickone]

try healing as a trooper or merc...its *********** in pvp....beyond lame. To the OP, if you cant kill a healer in this game post 1.2, just delete your toon. An untrained chimp could faceroll any healer cept maybe sawbones/IA. Edited May 2, 2012 by Sireene
use of retarded - PM'd

[Tathais]

try healing as a trooper or merc...its *********** in pvp....beyond lame. To the OP, if you cant kill a healer in this game post 1.2, just delete your toon. An untrained chimp could faceroll any healer cept maybe sawbones/IA.

 

Are you sure you meant me? I wasn't saying I couldn't kill a healer...

 

To the above guy, I haven't seen any effective healers in the sub-50 brackets... I'm usually the only dedicated healer on in any game I've ever been in and I'm usually at the top by a good margin. The other day someone came close to me, in that they were within 100k healing, but that's about it. So I feel like my output is ok, damage is just higher. I dump healing like a mad man but people still die. I should be able to outheal a single dps. I should be able to hold for a little while against two (assuming no interrupts).

 

There's got to be a better balance than this...

Edited May 2, 2012 by Sireene
quote of edited post

[Khoraji]

The fact remains that Bioware has a problem on their hands: Necessary or not, the changes to TTK in PVP have some, if not many healers feeling like their role is no longer fun. When a game stops being fun, people will move on to something that is. I am not saying that changes and balances to healers wasn't needed, just that the perception/feeling held by many right now is that Healing is a lot less fun across the board and thats a problem only Bioware can fix.

 

Only bad healers feel this way.

 

TTK is fine.

[Gorghte]

I personally think healing is pretty balanced atm. The only time I see where it could be frustrating is when people you are trying to heal are just smashing attacks and not playing their class fully by using CDs and CCs when they are getting focus fired. And imo, if you are focus fired 2v1 and 3v1 or more, you shouldn't last all that long with healing only able to draw it out unless you CC and run.

 

The scariest WZs for me is when I am the top healer on my team in the 50s bracket. Because I am a level 50 scrapper spec'd Scoundrel. (10/31/0).

Edited May 2, 2012 by Gorghte
spelling error

[Kawiki]

Sage healing at 50 can be very frustrating since 1.2.

 

I can keep myself alive if I am at the very top of my game. However, the only person I am healing is myself. The instant you stop kiting or healing yourself you are dead. You can kite and bubble other people and throw out your HoT but this has limited effectivness.

 

Basically any single bad melee can make you ineffective/kill you.

 

On a good team your surviability/usefullness goes way up. That being said why any team would take a Sage healer into rateds (once they are out) is beyond me as keeping the healer alive takes too much away from actually going for the objectives.

 

You are are going to hear a lot of this post is just QQing but its simply the truth of how things are in PvP at 50 for Sage (and sorc) healers.

 

Edit to add: I will say the actual healing number are fine if you can heal, but your low surviability causes you too kite, which in turn takes away your 2 best heals.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Kawiki

[madtycoon]

Edit to add: I will say the actual healing number are fine if you can heal, but your low surviability causes you too kite, which in turn takes away your 2 best heals.

 

This is pretty spot on

 

When you hit 50, you're going to need a lot of peels and protection to stay alive. You're going to be very reliant on your teammates. Healers usually are very reliant, but in this game you're going to notice even more of a dependency on others. However, when you can freecast and get some distance, you'll be able to keep people alive, not as effectively as in other games but you can be productive. When you're getting focused, you aren't going to be able to do much other than heal yourself.

 

Learn the other classes inside and out and learn how to survive against them. I recommend dueling a lot. Use line of sight and know when and what to fake cast with. You can be productive, it's just not going to be easy.

[DarthScruffy]

Healing wins games. If you're healing correctly and it's not working, it's probably not you, it's probably your team failing to taunt, cc, and protect their members.

 

Try to get a pocket tank to help you out, and make your groupmates aware you need protection.

 

^this

 

However, I do feel that the "6-2" that at least the Repubs on my server like to run doesn't help matters. Meeting larger group with larger group just exacerbates the balance problems and makes it very likely that I get hit with an interrupt or that 3-4 people nuke me. I honestly think that the 6-2 is a terrible strategy and yet if you started a debate on it in the WZ, people wouldn't take kindly to it.

[Metalmac]

Healing in this game is so unrewarding atm.

 

I really feel it is time to remove the -30% healing debuff in WZs

 

Yep after 1.2 I totally stopped healing as Bio Ware just sucked the fun out of healing.

 

No fun means do not heal. Get that Bio Ware?

[mjohnsonfhk]

Yep after 1.2 I totally stopped healing as Bio Ware just sucked the fun out of healing.

 

No fun means do not heal. Get that Bio Ware?

 

You are like most healers that play in this game. It was fun when it was easy and you could heal through 3 people dpsing you. Now you actually have to think about positioning and is your tank in range for your guard.

 

There are definitely less healers after 1.2. But most of the garbage ones are gone at least.

 

Every WZ i play, some healer is turning the tide of the battle. Its just not you.

[Caeliux]

This is pretty spot on

 

When you hit 50, you're going to need a lot of peels and protection to stay alive. You're going to be very reliant on your teammates. Healers usually are very reliant, but in this game you're going to notice even more of a dependency on others. However, when you can freecast and get some distance, you'll be able to keep people alive, not as effectively as in other games but you can be productive. When you're getting focused, you aren't going to be able to do much other than heal yourself.

 

Learn the other classes inside and out and learn how to survive against them. I recommend dueling a lot. Use line of sight and know when and what to fake cast with. You can be productive, it's just not going to be easy.

 

^

 

Full of win.

[Astarica]

Because healing is generally weak, a healer will inevitably die to a good DPS regardless of the protection involved.

 

However, good healers will die with their team winning because he brought them enough time, while a bad healer will not.

 

Basically healing is most exemplified in Huttball. Unless you totally overstack healing you'll never be able to keep the ball carrier alive the whole time, but you just have to keep him alive long enough. The fact you're even healing means you're likely to peel 2 DPS off a ball carrier (since they'll try to stop you) which gives him more breathing room. The healer is NOT the most important guy in the game. It is just as valid to have a healer as bit compared to anyone else. Yes if your healer is your only bait it'd probably fail, but sometimes you got to expose your healer to gain an advnatage elsewhere.

[furiousferret]

Maybe I'm missing something, but one of our guildies does 700-850k a game on a fairly regular basis.

 

I hear a ton of crying about Sorcs \ Sages, yet I still see 600k damage and 800k healing fairly common. I dont see the problem. Maybe the skill cap has been increased, maybe its gearing but from an outsiders perspective they seem pretty balanced.