Cross-Healing? 4 or 5 healers? INSTANT WIN! EPIC PVP!!!!!

[AndrewZue]

Assassin tanks, please ignore what follows. None of this concerns you and your naughty self heals.

 

I no longer enter a Warzone without a healer. As a Powertech in pure tank spec, it's nigh impossible to 1v1. However, with a healer my utility skyrockets far beyond pulling people into the fire in Huttball or holding a door in Voidstar while the rest of the group is waiting for the spawn timer. Find yourself a healer, but, you don't need 5. With that many healers, you're only effective against scatterbrained pugs and tanks. Unfortunately, since everyone has CC this game becomes rock, paper and scissors. (Tank, Healer and DPS) Except that most Powertechs have trouble beating most DPS classes. So it's more like paper loses to scissors, scissors lose to sharper scissors and rock hides a... rock and cries waiting for it to all be over.

[AltruisticRage]

I think it is possible for a class with Force Speed to always cap their own natural before any enemy can get there if you position yourself right so that they don't have LoS on you. But of course in this case both side can do this so the first person to cap their natural would be the Force Speed user with the fastest reflexes and there's absolutely no advantage to a heal heavy team there.

 

Sending 3 to cap theirs means if the other team knows how to defend you lose middle and they still cap their natural. Sending 1 guy to harass natural is okay, though again it's entirely possible for the enemy to cap their natural without you having a chance to do about it in certain situations. Having 2 on your natural is a no brainer (if no one attacks, that guy can go to middle and generally get the ranged/healer hiding in the back) but very few PUGs do this.

 

Rateds will change everything but in regular WZ queue the strat I suggested basically never loses as long as the mid can stall properly. But we regularly win 3v2, 3v3 when they send 2 or 3 to defend their natural.

 

Even if they cap we quickly overrun and cap-back with the strat we use.

Edited April 30, 2012 by AltruisticRage

[Astarica]

Rateds will change everything but in regular WZ queue the strat I suggested basically never loses as long as the mid can stall properly. But we regularly win 3v2, 3v3 when they send 2 or 3 to defend their natural.

 

How do you stall 3on6 or 3on7 assuming the enemy went with a pretty standard rush middle strat? I mean I know what you're talking about, what usually happens is your 3 gets wiped out and all 7 guys starts capping the turret, giving your side attackers plenty of time to mop up resistance and get the easy win. But really, you don't need 7 guys capping the turret at the same time. In fact, since you can see who's going to your side turret from middle (can't hide this at all), you should have your speedy classes just take the side ramps and jump down to reinforce your natural, and you'd arrive with a WZ buff on your side.

 

Of course, PUGs don't do this but PUGs are, well, PUGs.

[AltruisticRage]

How do you stall 3on6 or 3on7 assuming the enemy went with a pretty standard rush middle strat? I mean I know what you're talking about, what usually happens is your 3 gets wiped out and all 7 guys starts capping the turret, giving your side attackers plenty of time to mop up resistance and get the easy win. But really, you don't need 7 guys capping the turret at the same time. In fact, since you can see who's going to your side turret from middle (can't hide this at all), you should have your speedy classes just take the side ramps and jump down to reinforce your natural, and you'd arrive with a WZ buff on your side.

 

Of course, PUGs don't do this but PUGs are, well, PUGs.

 

In your case we would take their natural immediately because they can't defend 3v1 or 3v2 in most cases. This is part of DPS being too strong. All of this will change come rateds but this works without question right now in almost every match.

 

People usually send bad players to their natural and we send our best every time. We also send guildies (usually a tank and healer) to our natural. I am not saying this is the end-all strat. It just seems to work almost every match for us, even against Imp premades.

[anticept]

Too many healers. This is starting to be some sort of joke. I hate healing all together in

"RANDOM RANTING"

/thirdragepostfortoday

 

Yawn so you should be able to kill 1 person being healed by 4 person and him/herself... kthxbye

[DarthKhaos]

Then I am sorry, but, I am fairly sure you are bad. Guard = -50% damage; Taunt = -30% damage; CC = -100% damage.

 

If one healer cannot keep someone up 1 vs. 1 in a situation where said person has -80% damage on them for 6 yes SIX seconds... I feel sorry for them.

 

Cross healing has ALWAYS been a problem. People are only now figuring out that stacking Tanks/Healers is the efficient way to PvP.

Your math is a bit off. They will be doing -65% dmg.

[getdownsb]

Nerf Marauders!

 

Healing is broken!

 

I die in 2 hits!

 

Oh wait... what the... am I in the wrong forums? I thought this was the PvP section.

[Astarica]

In your case we would take their natural immediately because they can't defend 3v1 or 3v2 in most cases. This is part of DPS being too strong. All of this will change come rateds but this works without question right now in almost every match.

 

People usually send bad players to their natural and we send our best every time. We also send guildies (usually a tank and healer) to our natural. I am not saying this is the end-all strat. It just seems to work almost every match for us, even against Imp premades.

 

Um... the guy from the middle jumping off the middle ramp arrives the same time as the opposing attacker does since they have a shorter path to the turret.

 

Just because most teams are too stupid to realize this doesn't mean there's any kind of strategic advantage to what you're doing. You'll be at a huge disadvantage if the enemy simply have their fastest characters jump off the ramp because they'll have the WZ adrenal and that the fastest characters are also the strongest characters in the game (Marauder/Tankasins). In fact, only those two classes can get on the ramp and jump off before the guys in the middle intercept them due to a combination of speed + stealth.

[bakedpotter]

LOL i thought it was Mar/Sents ruining pvp? Or Shadow Tanks? Or too many lightning sorcs? or too many powertechs with their INSANE burst? or Sniper/ GS pwning? or Commandos impossible to kill? or BW's dev team? or Ilum? or WZs? or the INSANE gear grind? or etc.....

[Gerinth]

I will says that I've only seen this once. I was in a VS match, and there was 4 healers on the other team (we had 1). They won easily, and at the end of the match I looked through the stats and we had 0 kills. It was sad.

 

In fairness, our team was a really bad pug, and we were up against a premade, but ouch. I kept marking healers, then I thought maybe I had marked the wrong ones b/c I kept seeing new ones. You'd try to focus a guy down, but he'd just get heals from the other 3. It was brutal. Like I said, though, we were a bad pug and would've gotten mopped up by any premade regardless of comp. 0 kills though...it was jaw dropping.

[dardack]

Then I am sorry, but, I am fairly sure you are bad. Guard = -50% damage; Taunt = -30% damage; CC = -100% damage.

 

If one healer cannot keep someone up 1 vs. 1 in a situation where said person has -80% damage on them for 6 yes SIX seconds... I feel sorry for them.

 

Cross healing has ALWAYS been a problem. People are only now figuring out that stacking Tanks/Healers is the efficient way to PvP.

 

Um I find stacking 8 DPS in BM/WH gear (who are compentent) vs tanks/healers is better.

 

Why? Cause heals are so nerfed in PvP. Heals/tanks can't take anything, by the time they kill someone, we've respawned and gotten back, whereas if we focus 1 at a time we blow em up faster then they can heal through it. I love when i see multiple healers on the other team, unless I've solo q'd and my team is a bunch of scrubs in pve/recruit gear.

 

Had a few VS/CW/NC's today where the opp team had 3 healers 2 tanks, and we had 7 dps 1 heals (and a bad heals at that TBH) and blew them up consitently. They are all in BM gear on both sides.

[Astarica]

Um I find stacking 8 DPS in BM/WH gear (who are compentent) vs tanks/healers is better.

 

Why? Cause heals are so nerfed in PvP. Heals/tanks can't take anything, by the time they kill someone, we've respawned and gotten back, whereas if we focus 1 at a time we blow em up faster then they can heal through it. I love when i see multiple healers on the other team, unless I've solo q'd and my team is a bunch of scrubs in pve/recruit gear.

 

Had a few VS/CW/NC's today where the opp team had 3 healers 2 tanks, and we had 7 dps 1 heals (and a bad heals at that TBH) and blew them up consitently. They are all in BM gear on both sides.

 

The only WZ heavy DPS (especially if it means no healer) would suck at is Huttball. It's still pretty hard to score if you got no heals, though if anyone with a healing spell just heal the ball carrier for a bit (doesn't have to be a healer speced) it's usually enough.

 

Voidstar actually greatly favors heavy DPS because heals are not needed for the attack round, and as long as less than 7 guys die per respawn cycle you can still defend just fine. If your heavy DPS team is loaded with characters with amazing defensive CDs (Mara/Sin) then you almost always will have someone up to stop the cap.

[HoosierDuke]

I think this post slipped through a time tunnel from before 1.2..

 

LMAO aint that the truth ... 4-5 healers in a single match? LOL on our server, post 1.2, you are lucky if there is 1 healer in the match, let alone 4.

[Sith_Cho]

I've been in matches where 4-5 healers on the opposite team wouldn't die but couldn't cap nodes/door either.

I've also been in a PUG team where we had 4 healers and a 7 Maurader/1 Sniper team decimated us by pure melee training - no c.c.ing whatsoever with taunts on the entire group of them. The TTK is at a faster pace so reaction time + casting time doesn't save the focus target.

 

I feel a good balance is still a 2-3 healer max team to win. I still don't see much of a need for a pure tank in pvp, hybrids with guard is enough for any WZ.

 

I wish the queue would match healer = healer and dps = dps for each team so it starts equal but I can see low pop servers never getting a queue up because of it.

[rizBRAH]

Think healers have finally found the only counter to mele dps, 4 other healers healing them

[mmaize]

WTB whatever server you are on.

 

What he said...well for the Republic side any way. While I do agree with the OP that when you do see that situation it is pretty much ridiclous and for the most part a guaranteed win. It's even worse than a Marauder with a pocket healer...at least then you can kill the healer and deal with the mara (unless your on Sword of Ajunta Pall where the failure of the Republic there is of epic proportions...and they just keep running after the mara wondering why he isn't going down...I kid you not.) But you get a three healers all healing each other...and then some of them are guarded as well...look I don't want to seem like a QQ'er but seriously it's not right.

 

But considering the imbalance on my server of Imps to Republic it's not surprising to see them pull this off where we're lucky just to have a healer in any particular wz let alone 3. And usually that healer is a failure anyway.

[DarthKhaos]

LMAO aint that the truth ... 4-5 healers in a single match? LOL on our server, post 1.2, you are lucky if there is 1 healer in the match, let alone 4.

I would agree with you if I didn't see it myself in an alderaan & voidstar match. The key is co-ordination. It throws em off when one of theirs is yanked away and jacked while they are knocked back away from him (pref with a root/slow to go with said knockback).

[Digtahk]

The only way to fix this dire healing problem would be to buff marauders.....and perhaps nerf dps operatives....

 

simples

[Kyhren]

When they nerfed healing like they did (through direct and indirect nerfs) this was inevitable. You either run a boatload of healers or none.

 

100% this, at least this is what is also happening on my server. Before 2-3 healers sufficed, not there's at least 4 to every premade.

 

Until more people are in Warhero gear, or at least most are on par gear wise, I suspect this will be the norm.

[HunDigz]

(unless your on Sword of Ajunta Pall where the failure of the Republic there is of epic proportions...and they just keep running after the mara wondering why he isn't going down...I kid you not.)

 

A fellow SoAP Rep player I share your repeated head smacking desk moments every single day...

 

But I still want to believe that the creator of this thread is NOT serious, I read the post and thought "well duh" - its a fact of ANY game where you have 4-5 healers in a group cross-healing each other, it happens in WoW, Guild Wars (not Guild Wars 2) and other MMO's.

 

The only way you'll solve this is by restricting the amount of healers that are allowed into any one WZ (or party) at a time, which is stupid and should never happen - people need to stop whining and creating threads like this because its influencing others in the community to become cry babies who want nerfs for everything apart from their classes and their crafting skill sets.

 

By all means express your views, but posts like this are just nonsensical.

[Khoraji]

100% this, at least this is what is also happening on my server. Before 2-3 healers sufficed, not there's at least 4 to every premade.

 

Until more people are in Warhero gear, or at least most are on par gear wise, I suspect this will be the norm.

 

This is only true if you are facing an organized team, and you have no tanks.

 

With tanks, 2 healers and 2 tanks with 4 DPS who know how to focus is more than enough.

[dazednconfuzed]

Cross Healing works because it's HARD to focus down someone when they are getting heals from FOUR sources. This is why HEALING on PLAYERS needs restrictions. Especially in a game where almost EVERY single FOTMer is playing a class that has sometype of heal in it's tree.

 

Yes, because the only reason anyone plays a class is because it is the FOTM...

 

I play a healer spec Sorc and have done all the way through levelling my character, and am new to PvP in TOR, having just started it at the weekend. So far, I have to say it's rather fun. My heals don't seem to be at all overpowered, and if I am lucky, there will be one other healer on the board, so I'm not trying to heal everyone.

 

My recommendation to defeat cross-healing as you post here is to try a spot of cross-killing. Gang up on their healers first. Once they are dealt with, there is no more cross-healing.

 

The REASON cross healing is ruining Warzones is because we can't kill anyone at a point. Especially for PUGS. My server Republic side has been losing games non stop for a week because it's ALWAYS the same teams filled with cross healing players. And people are complaining about DPS?

 

People SHOULDN'T be getting carried through games by healers.

 

Healers are too squishy to carry anyone through a PvP match. All it takes is a little concerted effort on your team's part. once the healers start to drop, they are screwed.

 

In most Warzones everything is TIMED based.

 

The type of PvP this game has is DISCOURAGING new people from playing and DEMORALIZING.

 

There is nothing fun about it except to the people who think they are "skilled" by getting carried by healers.

 

/thirdragepostfortoday

 

As someone who only just got started in PvP in TOR, I have to completely disagree with you here. I like the fact that they are time or objective based. A 15 minute Huttball game, while still the worst type of PvP match in TOR, is still fun. If it wasn't timed, it would just be like another Capture the Flag type warzone, and that got really boring in WoW, especially with evenly-matched teams. They could go on for hours.

 

So, from a new-to-PvP player, I find TOR's PvP neither discouraging or demoralizing, and as a healer, I really do feel I do not carry anyone through a warzone.

 

I would agree with you if I didn't see it myself in an alderaan & voidstar match. The key is co-ordination. It throws em off when one of theirs is yanked away and jacked while they are knocked back away from him (pref with a root/slow to go with said knockback).

 

See, this guy gets it.

Edited May 1, 2012 by dazednconfuzed

[Igaduma]

I had a battle against 5-6 healers in Voidstar and they all stayed on top of each other for aoe healing, we only had 1 healer. We lost easily.

 

take the other door?

[WmongerCZ]

take the other door?

 

maybe nice joke but not in this case

[kickinhead]

Too many healers. This is starting to be some sort of joke. I hate healing all together in PvP but I dealt with it in most MMOs but...but...this...

 

I have never, ever ever ever seen this type of "crap" in any MMO ever.

 

Sure, you had people who brought healers, but when half the team is healing causing ?

 

WAY too many and it's being abused? I don't care what "nerf" they got. It didn't seem to help as healing is much worse than it's ever been. Every game, its always 4-5 people cross healing over and over. We didn't even WIN a game until our guild also made a premade with four healers. And even then it took forever for each side to take something. And I know it's the healers because when the healers AREN'T there we can progress instead of chasing around ONE character with healing, sheilds and knockbacks until help arrives.

 

This is exactly why TANKS are almost useless. When almost EVERY class can technically tank and do everything a normal tank can do.

 

Before 1.2 I had never seen this so it's very strange how so many healers complain about the nerf yet I only see empire healbots. Usually all Sorcs.

 

Cross Healing works because it's HARD to focus down someone when they are getting heals from FOUR sources. This is why HEALING on PLAYERS needs restrictions. Especially in a game where almost EVERY single FOTMer is playing a class that has sometype of heal in it's tree.

 

The REASON cross healing is ruining Warzones is because we can't kill anyone at a point. Especially for PUGS. My server Republic side has been losing games non stop for a week because it's ALWAYS the same teams filled with cross healing players. And people are complaining about DPS?

 

People SHOULDN'T be getting carried through games by healers.

 

In most Warzones everything is TIMED based.

 

The type of PvP this game has is DISCOURAGING new people from playing and DEMORALIZING.

 

There is nothing fun about it except to the people who think they are "skilled" by getting carried by healers.

 

/thirdragepostfortoday

 

Are you kidding me?

 

First of all, this sort of Problem will always exist in PuG's, have you never played HoN or DotA, where in every PuG, all the players pick a carry and no1 support?

 

Secondly, having a lot of healers obviously gives you certain advantages, but it also has huge deficits: We recently had a Game on Voidstar where we nearly went insane cuz we couldn't open a door against 2 Fullhealers and 2-3 Offhealers, well, we opened one at least and thought - this is gonna be a loss for sure, but hey: The didn't even come close to opening one door, cuz more healing equals less DMG. In most Maps, this stuff tends to balance itself out quite good: on VS, they'll hold easier, but they won't open doors, on Novare/Alderaan, they can def points easily, but they won't be able to recap a point that easy and in Huttball, they might be able to heal up a ballcarrier better, but they won't be able to kill yours.

 

Another point is, that often ppl think that there are 3-4 Healers, when actually, a majority of the healers are offhealers/hybrids. Many Hybrid-specs and Offhealers don't even have the reduced drawback to casting when healing, so simply attacking them will reduce their Heal-output heavily. Also, Offhealers have less effective heal and often more points in DMG, so if they heal, they are less effective than when they are dealing DMG. The third point is, that they have pretty bad mana-management when healing, so if you keep adding enough pressure, they will run out of mana soon.

 

And about Tanks being useless..... yeah, for sure....

 

Just another whinethread by sm1 who doesn't understand the game....

Edited May 1, 2012 by kickinhead