Change to undying rage proposal

[Xerain]

how about we give everyone 30m ranged attacks, 4 second stuns, a knock back, a mez, a heal, heavy armor, taunts, guard, and a leap... Oh and take out the talent tree's.

 

Lets just make it fair.

[Bazzoong]

The only problem with undying rage is it`s strangely low cd when compared to other classes defensive cds, a talented vanish for sins and agents still has 1 min 30 sec.

 

So I agree with the just increase the cd opinion voiced here multiple times.

[Dacer]

I does have a 1m30s - but the set bonus of pvp gear takes 15 second off and rage maras have a talent that takes another 30s off , but it's not rage marauders that ppl complain about.

[swTTT]

grants a second cc breaker to your class. Considering the spec advanced prototype has to spec in pretty far to unlock a second cc breaker that also grants cc immunity, i think making this a base ability would not do anything to balance the game.

 

Its also important to note that undying rage isn't what makes marauders unbalanced.

 

What makes marauders unbalanced is that they have high burst and sustained dps, high survivability from a healthy reserve of cooldowns, excellent group buffs that can be speced to be even better, and a good gap closer that does not require talenting. Any of these things on their own is fine for a class, a combination of all of them makes the marauders and sentinels the number one desired mdps for warzones and ops. Anyone who points to powertechs as an alternative is simply thinking in terms of damage numbers, which the marauders can match while also providing life saving buffs and having more overall survivability during focus fire phases.

 

 

this^

[Bazzoong]

I does have a 1m30s - but the set bonus of pvp gear takes 15 second off and rage maras have a talent that takes another 30s off , but it's not rage marauders that ppl complain about.

 

That still means the base is 30 sec. shorter than the base for sins agents (the base there is 2 min, 30sec of that with the talent).

Edited April 30, 2012 by Bazzoong

[shirayuki]

How about this take it away and give them a stun. Since people always make a point 1v1 I will, intead of a 99% damage reduction only used at low hp they have say a 4 sec stun they can use when ever (in 1v1 thats basically 4 sec 100% damage reduction unless you blow a 1:30 min - 2 min cd to get out of stun).

[Cyronic]

Why not just have them auto-die after it's duration, but immune to all cc while it's going? Sent/Mara would pop to get off that extra burst, and hopefully get the kill, but they couldn't use it as a prelude to vanish to escape death.

[Bazzoong]

How about this take it away and give them a stun. Since people always make a point 1v1 I will, intead of a 99% damage reduction only used at low hp they have say a 4 sec stun they can use when ever (in 1v1 thats basically 4 sec 100% damage reduction unless you blow a 1:30 min - 2 min cd to get out of stun).

 

That would be a severe nerf to marauders in my opinion, while the stun would be awesome for them in 1v1, the 99% damage reduction is far superior in group fights, also I do not think marauders should get any stronger in 1v1.

 

I am not even sure about nerfing them at all to be honest, I just see a discrepancy with to short cds for marauders as compared to abilities with similar functions of most other classes which I find strange. And maybe reducing certain cds for other classes would be better for balance over all.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Bazzoong

[Dacer]

Why not just have them auto-die after it's duration, but immune to all cc while it's going? Sent/Mara would pop to get off that extra burst, and hopefully get the kill, but they couldn't use it as a prelude to vanish to escape death.

 

Hmm I think the socs bubble should consume 10 % of current health.

I think that force shroud should immobilize for 2 seconds after its duration.

I think that the trooper interrupt immunity should give them -50% debuff to self healing

[whatthefett]

Stop it. Undying Rage is not "god mode". Its a last ditch effort to lay a hit and is used in the last 15% of a Marauders life. Usually mine doesnt even proc due to server lag anyway. And usually the opposition has a 60% instant heal, a similar power, or in warzones you are getting multi-attacked anyway so its almost redundant except its the final "haha" before death.

 

It is fine the way it is and is one minor tool in the Maruader toolbox.

[shirayuki]

That would be a severe nerf to marauders in my opinion, while the stun would be awesome for them in 1v1, the 99% damage reduction is far superior in group fights, also I do not think marauders should get any stronger in 1v1.

 

I am not even sure about nerfing them at all to be honest, I just see a discrepancy with to short cds for marauders as compared to abilities with similar functions of most other classes which I find strange. And maybe reducing certain cds for other classes would be better for balance over all.

 

I agree just throwing it out there so hopefully people will realize undying rage is fine the way it is you just need to learn to deal with it

[HurricaneXXIV]

Unless you completely revamped medium armor this class would be toast without it. It's already extremely easy for 1 or 2 classes to train them into popping UR.

[Zbus]

Unless you completely revamped medium armor this class would be toast without it. It's already extremely easy for 1 or 2 classes to train them into popping UR.

 

And your point is what? every other class can get focus fired and die easy. Only a Mara or sent can delay his death and avoid it in alot of cases with 99% bubble and vanish. And no need to revamp med armor unless you plan on revamping heavy armor. Its been shown over and over again that heavy armor is no more effective than medium or light armor and yet you still harp on not haveing heavy armor as grounds for those OP CD on a dps class.

 

By the way alot of classes fight close up not just mara's and sents tactics vanguards for example I dont see them with a 99% damage bubble or vanish. This is some really silly stuff here pure DPS should at no time have better mitigation than pure tank specs who by the way spec for mitigation and pay for it in lowered dps output. You guys want the advantges with non of the negative side effects that simple really.

[shirayuki]

And your point is what? every other class can get focus fired and die easy. Only a Mara or sent can delay his death and avoid it in alot of cases with 99% bubble and vanish. And no need to revamp med armor unless you plan on revamping heavy armor. Its been shown over and over again that heavy armor is no more effective than medium or light armor and yet you still harp on not haveing heavy armor as grounds for those OP CD on a dps class.

 

By the way alot of classes fight close up not just mara's and sents tactics vanguards for example I dont see them with a 99% damage bubble or vanish. This is some really silly stuff here pure DPS should at no time have better mitigation than pure tank specs who by the way spec for mitigation and pay for it in lowered dps output. You guys want the advantges with non of the negative side effects that simple really.

 

the reason mara/sent have more def cd is the lack of stuns that every other class has heck their long term cc only works on droids

[Xerain]

How about Undying Rage auto activates when we're at like 15% health or even if a hit drops us from 5k-0 hp i drops us to 1 hp and we live 5 seconds longer if we don't get any heals?

[Xerain]

And your point is what? every other class can get focus fired and die easy. Only a Mara or sent can delay his death and avoid it in alot of cases with 99% bubble and vanish. And no need to revamp med armor unless you plan on revamping heavy armor. Its been shown over and over again that heavy armor is no more effective than medium or light armor and yet you still harp on not haveing heavy armor as grounds for those OP CD on a dps class.

 

By the way alot of classes fight close up not just mara's and sents tactics vanguards for example I dont see them with a 99% damage bubble or vanish. This is some really silly stuff here pure DPS should at no time have better mitigation than pure tank specs who by the way spec for mitigation and pay for it in lowered dps output. You guys want the advantges with non of the negative side effects that simple really.

 

no we just stay up 5 seconds longer, it doesn't make us completely avoid death we just get a few extra seconds.

 

 

Vanguards DON'T HAVE TO FIGHT CLOSE UP. You can stay 30m back and attack and run and kite if you want.

 

Pure tank specs have crazy stupid mitigation so stop your complaining, 20k+ hp, heavy armor that blocks 40+% of the damage they take, 40% shield chances, and who knows how much actual dodge/parry. So don't even say marauders have better mitigation when we don't.

[Zbus]

no we just stay up 5 seconds longer, it doesn't make us completely avoid death we just get a few extra seconds.

 

 

Vanguards DON'T HAVE TO FIGHT CLOSE UP. You can stay 30m back and attack and run and kite if you want.

 

Pure tank specs have crazy stupid mitigation so stop your complaining, 20k+ hp, heavy armor that blocks 40+% of the damage they take, 40% shield chances, and who knows how much actual dodge/parry. So don't even say marauders have better mitigation when we don't.

 

Umm yes tactics vanguards do have to fight up close skills like gut and stock strike plus stacking for cannon shots and being near the mass is essental for aoe damage. Your thinking assault spec vanguards both tanks and tactics fight in close.

 

Im not even going to respond to your heavy armor and shield comment other than to post this link againhttp://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/

 

for the 1000th time. You claiming its true does not meet the reality of the facts. Feel free to post any info to dispute this that is backed up dev info.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Zbus

[Dacer]

How about Undying Rage auto activates when we're at like 15% health or even if a hit drops us from 5k-0 hp i drops us to 1 hp and we live 5 seconds longer if we don't get any heals?

 

Sold for 2000 WZ comms.

 

That would be nice - against other premades pvpers I get stunned and focused when I'm at ~30% and don't get to use it anyway. I'll take the auto activation.

[Dacer]

no we just stay up 5 seconds longer, it doesn't make us completely avoid death we just get a few extra seconds.

 

 

Vanguards DON'T HAVE TO FIGHT CLOSE UP. You can stay 30m back and attack and run and kite if you want.

 

Pure tank specs have crazy stupid mitigation so stop your complaining, 20k+ hp, heavy armor that blocks 40+% of the damage they take, 40% shield chances, and who knows how much actual dodge/parry. So don't even say marauders have better mitigation when we don't.

 

I have 24% mitigation I my marauder. 31% in rage spec. Full BM with WH weapons.

My guarding lvl 34 gaurdian rage spec has 29% mitigate in greens raging from lvl28-34.

 

 

But heavy armor doesn't mean anything I guess - just that a badly geared character 16 lvl below my BM geared main has only. A ~1-2% mitigation difference.

[LeonGrand]

Just wanted to throw it out there if it hasn't been said yet. Guardians/Juggernaunts have Guardian Leap, which can be used defensively, as well as offensively. But it obviously requires an ally nearby. Getting that out of the way, I use Guardian Leap to escape sticky situations about as much as I use it to defend my allies. So, with that being on a 20 second cooldown, it can be used quite often, and is very effective in the hands of good player who is geared for the pvp set bonus (8% total health healed each use).

 

Back to the point at hand though. There was a post earlier that I read, and am too lazy to go back and quote. It proposed a potential balance change which suggested that while under the effects of Undying Rage, the user's damage be reduced by 'X'%. This is a great idea, and makes the most sense. A small healing reduction penalty could even be added as well... but nothing above 25% would be balanced after some minor considerations. Perhaps it could be something like, damage reduced by 50%, and healing received reduced by 25% with a duration of 4 seconds.

[cashogy]

marauder is the best offensive class in pvp when played and specd properly.

 

marauder also has 3 of the best defensive cooldowns in the game.

 

that is the crux of the problem. marauders have too much independent survivability. every other dps class has 1, maybe 2 defensive cooldowns. the best offensive class cannot also have the best independent defense.

[Seravis]

Not sure why Undying Rage is complained about more than Force Shroud.

 

Force shroud is an undying rage that completely gives Assassins immunity to 90% of the damage in the game, A complete cleanse and immunity to all forms of CC and debuffs for 5 seconds. And it doesn't cost 50% of their life to do, and its on half the cooldown of undying rage. I would trade undying rage for force shroud if I could. Complete cleanse of Dots and CC immunity alone would be amazing.

 

So is force shroud an overpowered ability? Nope. These "bubbles" are the only thing that keep melee classes from exploding instantly when they do their job and charge into the middle of the enemy team.

[Bazzoong]

Not sure why Undying Rage is complained about more than Force Shroud.

 

Force shroud is an undying rage that completely gives Assassins immunity to 90% of the damage in the game, A complete cleanse and immunity to all forms of CC and debuffs for 5 seconds. And it doesn't cost 50% of their life to do, and its on half the cooldown of undying rage. I would trade undying rage for force shroud if I could. Complete cleanse of Dots and CC immunity alone would be amazing.

 

So is force shroud an overpowered ability? Nope. These "bubbles" are the only thing that keep melee classes from exploding instantly when they do their job and charge into the middle of the enemy team.

 

The difference is while you use force shroud you will still take damage from attacks that are not tech or force and there are classes where force shroud is a lot less effective (like snipers). Undying Rage however is universal, and will allow you to live no matter how many players are focusing you.

Undying rage is the single best defensive cd in the game, that does not necessarily make it op but the cd is very low when compared to the base cd of other classes abilities like cloak screen.

Force shroud should be compared to force camo, and undying rage to the cloak. If it comes to base cds.

[ReQu-]

not even going to bother reading any of the useless posts above me "there the same as the last 50 threads"

OMG A MELEE DPS CLASS IS STRONGER THEN MY RANGED QQ

 

BW got it right and all you who hate it need to L2P

 

For those of you still in denial about this please go read the marauder defensive buffs

and learn how to get around them oppose to QQ fest on forums calling for a nerf that should never exist

 

5 Second's of 99% dmg reduction is not game breaking ...

"your lack of a stun or knock back when this happens is it's causing a lot of useless banter about nerfing and crazy game breaking buffs that are non existent"

[Maxipad]

50% damage reduction while it is up with the same mechanic would be the way forward IMHO, atm sent/mara defence is far too high, 5 defensive cooldowns: AOE knockdown, Saberward, Cloak of Pain, 99% damage reduction for half current health, Vanish and then throw in the choke that dont break from dots is just way OTT.

 

Far too many Mara/Sent dont nurf me posts, clue up!