To the biased Sents/Maras defending their OP class

[EugeneYap]

Terrible players will never shut up and L2P. They will QQ/Whine/Cry till they pwn a mara/sent with their face rolling on the keyboard effortlessly with ease.

Becuz it's just easier for them to whine and cry rather using their brain to think. This loser has reach a stage of laziness that even thinking is too hard work for them.

Edited April 28, 2012 by EugeneYap

[PloGreen]

Wait so no class should be able to get 99% damage reduction and be able to hit you for the 5 seconds for full damage but every base class has a 4 second stun that you can hit people with and you get 100% damage reduction for those 4 seconds and you get to do 100% of your damage, how is that fair? And i say you get 4 seconds because a good player saves his CC break for full resolve or it's on cool down.

 

Take Undying Rage as a marauders form of stun.

 

Comparing a stun to a defensive cooldown comes off as a bit desperate.

[earthtoearl]

Why do people have to pick on the Sents. I don't see them at the top of the scoreboard more than some other classes I could mention.

 

As a Republic player I think ALL Empire classes should have ALL attacks and ALL defences reduced by 80%.

Edited April 28, 2012 by earthtoearl

[Zaranok]

This one is aimed at all the short-sighted Marauders/Sents that are fearful of a nerf, as that would mean they'd need to re-roll again (maybe to a PT as they seem to be doing quite well)

 

I've always said marauder/sent damage is fine, i want no changes to that, they are meant to dish out some hurt.....

What they do need is to lose the Undying rage/Guarded by the force as it is far, far too OP.

 

This is where all the biased Sents/Maras seem to completely miss the point, and they may say that "oh but thats been in the game since the start"......To this i say, yes it has, and it never should have been in the first place, it has no business being on any class, let alone a DPS one, but aside from that, the recent changes to expertise drastically lowering the TTK make this ability even more out of control.

5 seconds of complete damage immunity is stupid, especially given the amount of damage being thrown out now. You say the ability hasnt been changed, and maybe it hasnt theoretically, but its effectiveness has certainly increased with recent changes.

 

ill buy you a box of tissues

[Vetril]

Allow me to quote a smart guy:

 

If you cannot kill a marauder you are either:

 

A: Undergeared

 

B: A noob

 

 

Ajunta Pall players can kill marauders. Why cant the rest of you monkeys?

 

So which is it? A or B?

 

A or B?

[DirtyDiggler]

if you take the mard/sent defenses they will be worst DPS class period.

[jolleebindu]

To add more to my post, you're going to have to sit there and bang with them until they pop it. If you're going toe to toe with them it sounds counter intuitive to do that but as I mentioned before it's the only thing you can do. If they go into a ravage/MS, don't turn and run from them...run strait through them. So many times I see people try and soak that damage or back peddle. If you see that channel, run strait.

 

channeled abilities are associated with an auto face (once they begin casting). So unless the player is specifically turning their character away, that won't work.

Edited April 28, 2012 by jolleebindu
additional comment

[Dekai]

channeled abilities are associated with an auto face (once they begin casting). So unless the player is specifically turning their character away, that won't work.

 

There's no autoface in PvP with Ravage/Masterstrike as soon as you start to cast it. Run through them if they are not Carnage/Combat with the rooting talent.

[Odahviin]

if you take the mard/sent defenses they will be worst DPS class period.

 

that is the objective of the trolls. If they can't have it why should you?

 

surely YOU don't believe a pure dps AC with no other utility such as healing / tanking hybrid AC's should have any incentive to roll at all?

 

if this troll got his way you would never see a pure dps AC at all everyone would be running a hybrid tank / healer / stealth.

 

just like the sniper / gunslinger the mara / sent AC only has access to dmg talent trees. They can't access tanking medals or healing medals

 

The roll of dps is to dps and without the defensive talents this melee class has it would never be able to pvp effectively at all.

 

The op of this thread isn't arguing for balance, rather imbalance.

 

unfortunately it's an argument made since the dawn of time by children the world over.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Odahviin

[otherworlder]

The people defending why a sentinel/marauder 'needs' this unbelievably broken ability to pvp make me... almost startled at how ignorant and one-sided people's observations can be.

 

Go play a dps mercenary or commando to 50, pvp with him for a few months, then come back here and tell me why mara/sents need better on-demand burst, better mobility, a ton more cc, group utility AND not only more defensive CDs but some of the best in the game (including THE best). Ranged combat does not exist in this game unless you're playing against bad PvPers who let people freecast. Any melee pvper who cannot stay in range to attack a merc/commando is awful, simply put.

 

Play that gimp class for a few months and you'll be back here apologizing, shame-faced. You have no idea how bad some classes have it in pvp right now or how good you have it. Play multiple classes before assuming you understand them all top to bottom. Then maybe you'll grasp how helpless many of them are against your class right now and how your get out of jail free card is far, far too over the top compared to what others get.

[Junebugs]

The people defending why a sentinel/marauder 'needs' this unbelievably broken ability to pvp make me... almost startled at how ignorant and one-sided people's observations can be.

 

Go play a dps mercenary or commando to 50, pvp with him for a few months, then come back here and tell me why mara/sents need better on-demand burst, better mobility, a ton more cc, group utility AND not only more defensive CDs but some of the best in the game (including THE best). Ranged combat does not exist in this game unless you're playing against bad PvPers who let people freecast. Any melee pvper who cannot stay in range to attack a merc/commando is awful, simply put.

 

Play that gimp class for a few months and you'll be back here apologizing, shame-faced. You have no idea how bad some classes have it in pvp right now or how good you have it. Play multiple classes before assuming you understand them all top to bottom. Then maybe you'll grasp how helpless many of them are against your class right now and how your get out of jail free card is far, far too over the top compared to what others get.

 

Seems like you are just raging.. My first character was mara and TBH with you what ever it is making this vase amount of people roll them I will give up I dont even want to play my main anymore because the huge jumps in numbers of them since this patch.

[otherworlder]

Seems like you are just raging.. My first character was mara and TBH with you what ever it is making this vase amount of people roll them I will give up I dont even want to play my main anymore because the huge jumps in numbers of them since this patch.

 

Not raging at all, just astonished. My suggestion is an honest one. People will never have a balanced viewpoint on any issue until they try both sides for themselves. I rarely play my merc anymore so my frustration can be kept to a minimum, I just use my juggernaut because he does literally everything better.

 

A vast amount of people are rolling your class these days for a reason. It's not a mystery. Anyone who fights your class on a regular basis knows why. I'm willing to bet most of you do also.

[Junebugs]

Not raging at all, just astonished. My suggestion is an honest one. People will never have a balanced viewpoint on any issue until they try both sides for themselves. I rarely play my merc anymore so my frustration can be kept to a minimum, I just use my juggernaut because he does literally everything better.

 

A vast amount of people are rolling your class these days for a reason. It's not a mystery. Anyone who fights your class on a regular basis knows why. I'm willing to bet most of you do also.

 

Really the way im thinking about it is plz nerf us because looking around you and seeing maras EVERYWHERE is not fun i hate feeling like im part of this fail flavor of the month crap

[otherworlder]

Really the way im thinking about it is plz nerf us because looking around you and seeing maras EVERYWHERE is not fun i hate feeling like im part of this fail flavor of the month crap

 

I agree with you completely. You could remove this skill completely and good mara/sents would still be a serious threat. It is simply not needed, and is encouraging many players (including a ton of bad ones) to reroll because it trumps every other defense in the game while doing sick burst damage. Those few seconds of immunity in the present insanely fast TTK environment are too much.

 

I'm tired of seeing nothing but lightsabers in WZs, but I completely understand why it's that way. Switching from my merc to my juggy feels like climbing out of a garbage truck and into a porsche. It's like two completely different games.

[Raansu]

I agree with you completely. You could remove this skill completely and good mara/sents would still be a serious threat. It is simply not needed, and is encouraging many players (including a ton of bad ones) to reroll because it trumps every other defense in the game while doing sick burst damage. Those few seconds of immunity in the present insanely fast TTK environment are too much.

 

I'm tired of seeing nothing but lightsabers in WZs, but I completely understand why it's that way. Switching from my merc to my juggy feels like climbing out of a garbage truck and into a porsche. It's like two completely different games.

 

Newsflash: Gamers are strangely surprised to see people using lightsaber wielding classes in a game titled STAR WARS! More at 11.

[Junebugs]

I agree with you completely. You could remove this skill completely and good mara/sents would still be a serious threat. It is simply not needed, and is encouraging many players (including a ton of bad ones) to reroll because it trumps every other defense in the game while doing sick burst damage. Those few seconds of immunity in the present insanely fast TTK environment are too much.

 

I'm tired of seeing nothing but lightsabers in WZs, but I completely understand why it's that way. Switching from my merc to my juggy feels like climbing out of a garbage truck and into a porsche. It's like two completely different games.

 

I dont find it to be OP but i also dont see it as something i NEED.. I just hope this mara fab dies down soon so i can enjoy my main >.<

[otherworlder]

Newsflash: Gamers are strangely surprised to see people using lightsaber wielding classes in a game titled STAR WARS! More at 11.

 

You seem to have missed the "nothing but" part of my statement. You should read things thoroughly before commenting, to avoid making yourself look foolish.

 

Lightsabers have a place in Star Wars. But so do blasters. I'd like to see them equally represented. Jango and Boba and all those clone troops may have died like chumps the moment a jedi entered the fray, but in an MMO class balance shouldn't be based on lore (those with the blasters exist to be killed by those with the lightsabers).

[Smuglebunny]

I agree with Odahviin 100%.

 

Guarded by the force is not OP cuz you can just stun the person or knockback and run away.

 

But the inq/cons bubble that cant be taken down and absorbs most damage is not OP somehow?

 

The ability for certain classes to just exit combat completely stealth for 10 seconds is not OP?

 

But being invulnerable for 4 seconds is OP? When you can just stun me? or even just run.

 

You nerfers are grasping at straws and going from one thing to the next when you get debunked.

 

First they do too much damge, then its Guarded/undying rage or saber ward. Its nothing sents arent OP. I hardly even use GBTF.

 

Remember the thread where the guy wanted to trade a stun for GBTF? Remember all the threads saying mara/sent is way too weak?

 

We have been nerfed since then. Our stealth is only 4 sec and has 50% damage reduction, used to be 100%

 

The only difference is that the OTHER classes, most notably the range classes have been balanced. Everything is where it should be now, other than the highly OP cons/inqs class. That has not been altered as far as dps or mitigation.

 

So eveyone rolled sent or mara and now there are so many of them you got lots of people getting killed by one and crying to the forum.

 

Case closed.

[Razuache]

This one is aimed at all the short-sighted Marauders/Sents that are fearful of a nerf, as that would mean they'd need to re-roll again (maybe to a PT as they seem to be doing quite well)

 

I've always said marauder/sent damage is fine, i want no changes to that, they are meant to dish out some hurt.....

What they do need is to lose the Undying rage/Guarded by the force as it is far, far too OP.

 

This is where all the biased Sents/Maras seem to completely miss the point, and they may say that "oh but thats been in the game since the start"......To this i say, yes it has, and it never should have been in the first place, it has no business being on any class, let alone a DPS one, but aside from that, the recent changes to expertise drastically lowering the TTK make this ability even more out of control.

5 seconds of complete damage immunity is stupid, especially given the amount of damage being thrown out now. You say the ability hasnt been changed, and maybe it hasnt theoretically, but its effectiveness has certainly increased with recent changes.

 

yet sorceres bounty hunters and operative sall have there own bubbles and they are ranged? the reason you get owned by sents is the sabre ward tbf guarded by the force is only 5 seconds if u die in 5 seconds and your not playing a mrauder who has no ccs then you suck basically just cc them

[Exilim]

I read most of this thread and it kind of turned into arguing about which of the current imba classes are more imba. Shadows sentinels assassin and marauders are over-tuned, need some longer cooldowns.

 

Hey where's Xerain? Haven't your <Bleed> premades been 3 marauders 2 tank assassins and then healers. Well one of the merc healers respec to dps which threw me off a bit last time I saw them. Not sure how permanent that is. Wouldn't it suck if these classes got nerfed.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Exilim

[Balor]

Well the argument of "just CC them" implies that there is always a CC cooldown up or that CC abilities have no cooldown. This is the same argument Scound/Ops made when they were killing people outright during the knockdown at launch (see CC breaker). Therefore is null and void.

 

I like that they can do serious damage now in Carnage spec (imply sent tree as well), Whilst I disagree with their rage tree being equalized/doing more damage then their tank counterparts.

 

 

Somethings to consider that cannot be argued against because they are proven facts:

The difference between heavy armor and medium in PVP is miniscule.

All tanks in the game (except Shadow/sin) have way too few defensive cooldowns.

When comparing to amount of tank cooldowns (Shadow/sin excluded) and the amount marauders/sents get, add in the fact the armor difference is near moot, they have way too many def cooldowns to themselves.

 

 

Things I would suggest for Bioware, moving forward:

 

A. Have armor rating/amount also add a modifier (/increase) the amount of damage reduction granted per expertise, to obviously only effect PVP.

 

B. Reduce Undying rage health cost to 40%, but have it reset resolve bar on use (making them CC'able no matter what)

 

C. Have more D.o.T based abilities in Vanguard/PT specs have talents that cause adverse effects on dispel (like what lethality got).

 

D. Only Allow Warzone adrenals (health and exp) be used in warzones. Do not allow relics/Biochem adrenals.

At the same time (as to not screw Biochem), make all stat buff stims also grant some expertise (% based but small). (if relics are useable, have all PVP relics just buff expertise slightly and only allow PVP relics to be useable)

 

E. Give healers their own unique ability (requiring high tier talent speccing into healing), that works like a reverse taunt. Something along the lines of:

Duration 5 seconds

Cooldown 30 seconds

Causes all healing done by the target to be reduced by 15% unless the target is themself.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Balor

[Diddley]

Newsflash: Gamers are strangely surprised to see people using lightsaber wielding classes in a game titled STAR WARS! More at 11.

 

This is really the dumbest excuse I've heard from the fotm anti-nerf crowd, and keep hearing, just ahead of "L2P" and expertise scaling.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Diddley

[Raansu]

You seem to have missed the "nothing but" part of my statement. You should read things thoroughly before commenting, to avoid making yourself look foolish.

 

Lightsabers have a place in Star Wars. But so do blasters. I'd like to see them equally represented. Jango and Boba and all those clone troops may have died like chumps the moment a jedi entered the fray, but in an MMO class balance shouldn't be based on lore (those with the blasters exist to be killed by those with the lightsabers).

 

You completely missed my point but whatever.

[hyuplee]

Well the argument of "just CC them" implies that there is always a CC cooldown up or that CC abilities have no cooldown. This is the same argument Scound/Ops made when they were killing people outright during the knockdown at launch (see CC breaker). Therefore is null and void.

 

I like that they can do serious damage now in Carnage spec (imply sent tree as well), Whilst I disagree with their rage tree being equalized/doing more damage then their tank counterparts.

 

 

Somethings to consider that cannot be argued against because they are proven facts:

The difference between heavy armor and medium in PVP is miniscule.

All tanks in the game (except Shadow/sin) have way too few defensive cooldowns.

When comparing to amount of tank cooldowns (Shadow/sin excluded) and the amount marauders/sents get, add in the fact the armor difference is near moot, they have way too many def cooldowns to themselves.

 

 

Things I would suggest for Bioware, moving forward:

 

A. Have armor rating/amount also add a modifier (/increase) the amount of damage reduction granted per expertise, to obviously only effect PVP.

 

B. Reduce Undying rage health cost to 40%, but have it reset resolve bar on use (making them CC'able no matter what)

 

C. Have more D.o.T based abilities in Vanguard/PT specs have talents that cause adverse effects on dispel (like what lethality got).

 

D. Only Allow Warzone adrenals (health and exp) be used in warzones. Do not allow relics/Biochem adrenals.

At the same time (as to not screw Biochem), make all stat buff stims also grant some expertise (% based but small). (if relics are useable, have all PVP relics just buff expertise slightly and only allow PVP relics to be useable)

 

E. Give healers their own unique ability (requiring high tier talent speccing into healing), that works like a reverse taunt. Something along the lines of:

Duration 5 seconds

Cooldown 30 seconds

Causes all healing done by the target to be reduced by 15% unless the target is themself.

 

While I really dont agree with the majority of your post, I am however completely fine with what you have done to undying rage. Because?

 

Because Undying rage has never been the reason why people are crying so hard now. Pre- 1.2 there are actually only a few people who think mara are overpowered. Not many whined about undying rage/guarded by the force back then because our dmg weren't as high.

 

So really this whole thread is completely misguided in my opinion.

Instead we should be looking at nerfing global TTK as well as expertise returns because that's whats making mara more dangerous than ever.

Edited April 28, 2012 by hyuplee

[Exiled-Phoenix]

stealth isn't a gap closer? It doesn't give the ability for you to get ontop of your target as needed and start dps'ing them huh?

 

Stealth is a ****** gap closer, as an assassin i'll gladly trade in my stealth for a lunge in pvp.

Lets not forget the OPness of lunge in huttball...