Can I have my Trooper back?

[Redcorn]

I love people bad mouthing a class/ac/spec that they know little of, and evidently never learned how to fight against. A gunny commando is a fixed target with his only instant abilities having long cool downs that depend on a long cast ability (grav round) to proc. The gunny commando is easily evaded by LOS, easily neutered by interrupts, easily killed with melee and ranged attacks, and surprisingly easy to kill even with heavy armor and good HP.

 

Our rotation has not changed with the advent of 1.2. We now die much more easily than before, and our damage output has been hurt. Do we still put out damage? Certainly, but other DPS builds/classes do much more. Who do you focus on to kill in a WZ after the healers? Who do you run from in a WZ?

 

Was 1.2 and 1.2.0c an appropriate nerf for the trooper, especially the commando? Well the stated goal was to make the rotation more complicated to achieve the same results. That goal was not met. The rotation is the same and the results are less. If that was the goal then BW succeeded.

 

In the end it is what it is. Eventually other classes/AC/builds will be nerfed and gunny commandos will be buffed as BW plays chase the tail on the donkey trying to min/max balance in a PVE/PVP environment. This is one reason MMORPGs are not enjoyable for me. I like knowing the rules of the game. I don't like spending hours building a character and then that character being changed in a whim or through community whining. But this is just me as I know most love this sort of thing. Well love it until the nerf bat hits their character.

[Redcorn]

Customer QQ does not lead to buffs or nerfs, sorry. Never has in any game and never will. Customer QQ may sometimes have a solid basis and therefore align with future changes but any and all changes have always been based on the raw physical data collected every time anybody presses any ability or does any content.

.

 

I must respectfully disagree. Blizzard is known for its pandering to the community of QQ. This involved everything from design of the raids, content, and class abilities. Very often it was the loudest QQ that got its way. It is my experience that the loudest in the WoW community were the PVP players, then the casual player, followed closely by the hard core raider.

 

I did not see this much in EQ1, but I was a young mmorpg player then and never pvp'd.

[thomasgallant]

You do realize (at least through 1.1) that Storm did the EXACT same thing as Force Leap right?

 

Edit: Though with use of Force Push you can re-use Force Leap, but there are bosses that are immune and it's threat generation can be made up for by other abilities.

 

ya i am aware:P i jut dont like the play style

[Bulldogs_Rule]

ya i am aware:P i jut dont like the play style

 

Fair enough, I only said that since you cited Force Leap.

[JLapp]

Spammers will still spam cos they don't know any better, but at least they won't do as much damage as they did before :-). But yeah, the rotation for commandos who actually knew what they were doing hasn't changed.

 

Rotation hasn't changed but damage has taken a pretty massive hit.

[SeloDaoC]

Bad players that didnt know how to coutner Gunnery Commandos whined about it on forums, the class was quite weak before 1.2 and lost 1v1 to everyone that actually knew how to interupt/stun and LoS them. The damage was lower then most classes even before 1.2, grav round didnt kill anyone alone.

 

After 1.2 They got even more nerfed in survivability, grav round gott nerfed 10%, demo got buffed 10% then nerfed 25%

 

Nothing was changed to the rotation, you use FA maybe 10% more.

 

At the same time the most op classes got buffed, while commandos still have no escape abilities, lack of cc, no interupt immunity, no roots, no snares, no interupt and the lowest survivabilty

[Qoojo]

Edited April 24, 2012 by Qoojo
not getting involved

[Regault]

 

At the same time the most op classes got buffed, while commandos still have no escape abilities, lack of cc, no interupt immunity, no roots, no snares, no interupt and the lowest survivabilty

 

Concussion charge doesn't count as an escape ability? Concussive round and cryo-grenade aren't CCs? Concussive Force doesn't essentially make Stockstrike an interrupt? Combat shield doesn't grant interrupt immunity? You can't somehow use any of your other abilities for the four seconds an interrupt lasts and then not worry about getting interrupted because interrupts in this game are terrible compared to other games? Sweltering Heat and Cover Fire don't turn abilities you would use anyway into snares? You don't have just as much armor as a dps guardian or vanguard and can engage your enemy from triple the distance away?

[Asavar]

No, deal with it. As a Ia/Op its nice to see others get stuff taken away.

 

People like you are what makes MMO communities ******. You're a bad player, ****.

[sensiblepoast]

You can only lol at the suggestion that concussion charge is an escape move.

[jedip_enguin]

It is not your complaint per say as much as it is what its basis is.

 

And as to you mocking my response, what else would you like us to say? You have given no real evidence of anything. Just "Don't you think they healed fine?"... There are so many circumstances and experiences in an MMO that you even asking that question is very telling. Based on how you presented your issue, the only conclusion that could possibly be drawn is that you read the notes, saw some numbers and assumed you knew what that would entail in game for the whole populous.

 

My OP made no mention of specific issues or area's I wanted buffed so there is no onus on me to provide 'evidence' as to their requirement.

 

My OP was a mild/jokey whine post, and the negativity it generated paint a bleak picture of our little electronic community.

 

I just asked for things to go back to the way they were (and acknowledged the unlikeliness of this immediatly after via the sad smiley), as, the across the board impact to the class has been a tad severe regarding our total dmg output and mitigation in my opinion.

 

Telling you to take some time and learn to play with the new changes is a legitimate answer.

 

No it's not, its a borderline troll, and you're more than intelligent enough to know it.

 

I've been playing this class (and nothing else except its mirror) since day 3 of early access and even dabbled with it in the Beta, I have as much experience with my spec as one can reasonably have.

 

And i'll say this once again for clarity...

The rotation for people who knew what they were doing before the patch has not changed one bit after the patch, the skill priority is still exactly the same. (and the same can be said for most of the other builds too)

 

So the patch has failed in its goal to encourage a more active rotation, and instead has made us less effective across the board.

 

It wont stop me playing my character, as I refuse to succumb to fair weather playing or flavour of the month'ing, but it will make it a little less enjoyable.

Edited April 25, 2012 by jedip_enguin

[mArchangel]

<sarcasm>Done deal if i get my "I win Tracer Missile" buttonsmash back. My operative also wants her acid blade, and my sorc needs more lightning..</sarcasm>

 

Nerfing classes/Buffing classes. It's an infinite loop. As my sith sorc would say " You just have to learn how to deal"

 

Yes but, BIIIIG but, what is the point in gang****** the trooper? On the one hand they say endgame content was too easy and then they add a FP and OPS that has a completely absurd difficulty. Sorry this is all wrong. Making the Commando ammo cost increase on heals and regen lower is not a nerf it's basically a complete strip of worth for this entire sub-class. I personally don't play a trooper but all our guild commandos lost all fun healing with that class and are all rerolling to Scoundrels. Is that really THE solution BioWare? *shaking head in disbelief*

[uziforyou]

No, deal with it. As a Ia/Op its nice to see others get stuff taken away.

 

It seems we have several 'Schadenfreude' in the trooper forums.

[BobaFaceroll]

The rotation for people who knew what they were doing before the patch has not changed one bit after the patch, the skill priority is still exactly the same. (and the same can be said for most of the other builds too)

 

So the patch has failed in its goal to encourage a more active rotation, and instead has made us less effective across the board.

 

This is the problem in a nutshell. People said this would be the case before the patch too, once they knew the details of how we were being encouraged to vary our skill rotation. I play the same as before as the skills themselves, and how they interact, has not changed in a game changing way. The only noticeable difference is more frequent Full Auto use, but that's a double edged sword. It does more damage, and that helps offset the GR and DR nerfs, but it costs more ammo so my resources dwindle faster.

 

The only change of significance is that I do quite a bit less damage than before with my Commando. I can easily outperform my Trooper with my Pyro PT, and the Pyro has worse gear. That's purely from a PvE perspective as well...

[Harukaze]

I'm confused by this thread. Does anybody who calls Gunnery a one-button class actually play Gunnery? Let's take the example of a boss fight, simple tank'n'spank, where I don't have to worry about healing or movement or defense. I have to Grav Round, naturally; Hammer Shot to keep my ammo up; Full Auto on cooldown - or better yet, on Curtain of Fire; Hi-Impact Bolt on cooldown once I have five stacks; and Demo Round once I have GRed somebody 3 times and on cooldown thereafter. That's five buttons. If I have to heal, either myself or someone else in an emergency, that's one or two more buttons [hopefully one - if I have to heal more often than AMP coming off cooldown we might be in trouble ]. If I have to defend myself on top of everything - say, when I'm soloing content, I need to add in my defensive cooldowns, which include Reactive Shield, Adrenaline Rush and [again, if solo, since I need a companion for this] Unity. That doesn't count my ammo-returning Recharge Cells, my free-ammo Reserve Powercell, my oh-crap-I-got-aggro Diverson... or any of the insane number of AoE abilities I have, each with a distinct flavor and use. As far as CC goes, I have a Concussive Round, a much-shorter-lived Cryo Grenade, or the ever-fun Sticky Grenade for normal mobs. And since I don't like mobs punching me, there's also Stockstrike and Concussive Charge.

 

Adding all the buttons I use on a regular basis, I'm counting fifteen. Seventeen, with my heals.

 

And has been said many times, my rotation hasn't changed one whit since the patch; my damage has gone down, but I can't use GR any less than I already did and still keep up stacks and fish for CoF procs. As it is, I already have situations where I need to quickly GR before I lose my stacks.

 

Now, my Gunnery Commando is only 45. But I don't see how my rotation will significantly change in the next five levels.

 

In contrast, my two Jedi are fairly simple creatures. I'm logged into the Commando now so I can't count their abilities, but I feel like I do much less to do much more - especially on my Watchman Sentinel. My Kinetic Shadow requires almost as much work as my Gunnery Commando, but that's because I'm tanking on him and thus have a much greater responsibility.

 

Gunnery Commandos are not one button monkeys and never have been. Anybody who says differently is wrong. There's really no two ways about this.

[Songwhistle]

K guys you need to realise vanguards are not the same as commandos. different trees and different damage please do not compare them it just goes to show you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

vanguards do 1k+ dps

commando gunnery spec 750 dps stable 1100 for 1 min burning all and is left with no real way to dps afterwards.

 

our guild has literally banned commandos from raid due to the nerfs and other guilds on server has done the same.

 

sorry but commando gunnery spec is now useless. so if not speaking about the actual commando dont bother replying cuz vanguards are fine - commandos are not.

[FromAbove]

I love people bad mouthing a class/ac/spec that they know little of, and evidently never learned how to fight against. A gunny commando is a fixed target with his only instant abilities having long cool downs that depend on a long cast ability (grav round) to proc. The gunny commando is easily evaded by LOS, easily neutered by interrupts, easily killed with melee and ranged attacks, and surprisingly easy to kill even with heavy armor and good HP.

 

This, except apply it to CMs too. Neither the buffs to DPS classes, particularly to Maras/Sents, nor the nerfs to commandos should be looked at in a vacuum. Healing Commandos almost entirely rely on charged abilities and therefore aren't as frequently in a position to be able to move for LOS-breaking or range purposes (without rendering themselves incapable of using their core abilities), which means that they're taking the changes much worse than other classes might. The "L2P" chorus certain people like to sing makes me want to bash my head into a wall. Break range, break LOS, use your knockback and instant stun as though they aren't on cooldowns-- are you kidding me?

 

I asked this before when the changes were still being proposed, but no one answered (which may just be because I write walls of text on the naive assumption that forum users have grown-up reading skills): If heavily-armored single-target healers aren't supposed to be survivable, then what are they supposed to be? This patch has been a farce. I'm still completely at a loss to understand how anyone thought it was a good idea to implement both the nerfs and the buffs in the same patch without at least feeling them out on the live servers.

 

Fortunately, I'd been working on a gunslinger before 1.2 came out. The completely inexplicable 5% damage increase to the slinger's core abilities came out the day I hit 50-- what a sweet present that was. It made picking a new main that much easier.

Edited April 25, 2012 by FromAbove

[GySgtKerr]

short answer No. Trooper in general is a class that is being currently hated by everyone, particularly due to pvp and people who have no idea how to counter it. While I can't comment much on the gunnery commando build, I've never actually played it. The Assault Spec in the commando tree, while very interesting to play, is by far the worst dps in game. Its very gear heavy reliant, and ever with Rakata gear it's so so.

 

My CM, the tree I play the most, is dying breed. Since 1.2 there's been less and less of us. We're not wanted in pve content because we can't do much vs aoe dmg, and even when we try, we simply run out of ammo and then stand looking pretty until our ammo regens. Its really came to the point that on my server I get "lols" when someone is shouting for a healer for a pug flashpoint or an ops.

 

As for pvp, well, we simply melt.

[LukeStormstout]

I love the way I say 'trooper' and everybody hears 'Grav round spamming gunnery commando' its an interesting insight into the mindset of the butthurt.

 

The irony is that they did nothing to counter Grav Round spam, I still need to use it exactly as many times as I used to (ie as often as required to keep a 5 stack of the debuff or for something to do when everything else is on cooldown) and the spammers still spam cos they dont know any better.

 

As I mentioned above, its all the other stuff that got messed up along the way that I object to...

 

The armor reduction debuff is not working. If they fix that alone I will be happy. I use it a lot less now because there is no point to using it as much as before. The 5 stack debuff is just needed for the finishers that is all.

[Dayrun]

Grav round was nerfed about 25%. I guess no one cares that Bioware cant do math. Demo round still not right since 1.21c. And something is different with armor.

 

I dont care if you are a trooper or not. Everyone should be very concerned with the seemed stealth changes that are I am sure happening with every class.

[republicrookie]

deal fellow commando:sy_havoc:

[ehryk]

short answer No. Trooper in general is a class that is being currently hated by everyone, particularly due to pvp and people who have no idea how to counter it. While I can't comment much on the gunnery commando build, I've never actually played it. The Assault Spec in the commando tree, while very interesting to play, is by far the worst dps in game. Its very gear heavy reliant, and ever with Rakata gear it's so so.

 

My CM, the tree I play the most, is dying breed. Since 1.2 there's been less and less of us. We're not wanted in pve content because we can't do much vs aoe dmg, and even when we try, we simply run out of ammo and then stand looking pretty until our ammo regens. Its really came to the point that on my server I get "lols" when someone is shouting for a healer for a pug flashpoint or an ops.

 

As for pvp, well, we simply melt.

 

100% agreed. I am also CM spec. We got all of the armor nerfs, all of the damage nerfs, all of the ammo usage nerfs AND heal nerfs on top of that. My CM is my only toon and now I only log him in when a bud needs a new weapon. Thats it. He is no fun to play anymore. The heals are much smaller, damage is near nil and the (not so)heavy armor just doesn't protect anymore. Lets face it, as soon as an imp sees my hand go to my ear, I am dead. Even after popping shield, adrenalin, no retreat, knockback and cryo, I am pretty much toast. I used to have ONE timered ability that allowed me to heal through interupts, but yep, that was nerfed too.

 

Now, I have been playing some type of healer since Ultima Online beta (yeah baby! Old School! lol). I know a good group will kill healers first. It's just smart play. But come on, nerfing one archtype for balance should not effect another so badly. When playing a healer, a 4 second CC is death to the group, I have to purge it off in a heated focus fight knowing there is most likely an 8 sec mez to follow. If I have positioned myself right, I catch damage from an AoE and I am good almost instantly. If not... oops, meet up at respawn lol. One thing I will do is pop cryo on their healer knowing he has to purge it then I hit him with my 8 second mez immediatly after the purge. If he doesnt purge cryo, I ignore him and go back to heals and call him out for next target or call for a target change if possible.

 

I have been looking at doing disguises, heavy Jedi armor modded up for CM trooper and a blaster rifle instead of the monstrocity cannon to make myself stick out less. Maybe it will work, maybe not. That hand to the head during heals is just a dead giveaway (pun intended). I think some of the nerfs need to be reverted, just not all. Also, in PvP, damage overall needs to be slowed down. Time to kill is just wayyyyyyy too fast now. I want fights to be battles, not facerolls. But thats just me.

[RyIke]

Well I have been a Gunnery Commando for awhile and yes i use Grav Round (along with Charged Bolts). That is not to say all i do is spam grav round but yes i get 5 stacks of the armor debuff and then proceed to use my other skills. Now before the 1.2 patch we did have it easy, a good armor buff, and our grav round was OP as some would say. Now since the patch you cant just spam grav round and hope to win. I see that some people are mad about the changes but if you learn to work your rotation you can keep your ammo up and have good DPS. Maybe before you could just spam skills and not have to do anything else now you have to actually know what you are doing to keep your ammo supply up and have constant damage going.

 

TLDR: Learn to use your class correctly. You can now practice your rotation on the training dummies on the fleet.

Edited April 28, 2012 by RyIke

[Senscith]

TLDR: Learn to use your class correctly. You can now practice your rotation on the training dummies on the fleet.

 

I can use my class correctly, in Ops me and another Gunnery mando are always fighting for top DPS against a Sentinel and a Gunslinger, and we're all normally within 1% of each other for damage for PvE.

 

PvP is a whole other beast. On my server almost the entire empire is either a Tank Assassin, Annihilation Marauder, or a smuggler healer with the occasional Powertech thrown in there. As Gunnery I can barely get off a cast without getting interrupted or having a Assassin pop their, "Lol all your skills but Hammer Shot, Charged Bolts, and Full Auto are useless and btw your stacks of Grav Round and any DoTs are gone," skill. When they then proceed to interrupt any cast attack I use. Marauders just eat anything they touch alive and hole and even if you do manage to keep them at range and get their health down they have 2 separate "Get of of Jail Free" cards where they just stop taking damage or they cloak and run away/re-engage when its good for them. Not to mention that Gunnery's lovely armor penetration skills don't work on tech attacks atm, so if you get 5 stack of Grav Round you get nothing except for a small boost to Full Auto, Charged Bolts, and Hammer Shot.

 

TL;DR, Gunnery is the bottom rung on the PvP totem pole atm.

[RyIke]

I can use my class correctly, in Ops me and another Gunnery mando are always fighting for top DPS against a Sentinel and a Gunslinger, and we're all normally within 1% of each other for damage for PvE.

 

PvP is a whole other beast. On my server almost the entire empire is either a Tank Assassin, Annihilation Marauder, or a smuggler healer with the occasional Powertech thrown in there. As Gunnery I can barely get off a cast without getting interrupted or having a Assassin pop their, "Lol all your skills but Hammer Shot, Charged Bolts, and Full Auto are useless and btw your stacks of Grav Round and any DoTs are gone," skill. When they then proceed to interrupt any cast attack I use. Marauders just eat anything they touch alive and hole and even if you do manage to keep them at range and get their health down they have 2 separate "Get of of Jail Free" cards where they just stop taking damage or they cloak and run away/re-engage when its good for them. Not to mention that Gunnery's lovely armor penetration skills don't work on tech attacks atm, so if you get 5 stack of Grav Round you get nothing except for a small boost to Full Auto, Charged Bolts, and Hammer Shot.

 

TL;DR, Gunnery is the bottom rung on the PvP totem pole atm.

 

I have to agree with you on our survivability we cannot take sustained amounts of damage for long, we do have some defense abilities but it is not enough mainly when facing a marauder they just rip right through you. Now in Raids yes our guild still uses commandos, DPS at that and i am one of them i am also on par with other DPS users. PvP now you are right, I dont normally do as much damage as a marauder but i am still close. But again i think its our survivability that hurts us the most we cannot take constant damage and hope to stay alive. Ah and the interrupts yes those are very annoying and can destroy your rotation if you keep getting interrupted.

 

And since the patch you know they reduced our defensive ability we gain by using charged bolts and grav round so yeah that does not help when we are trying to stay alive either.

Edited April 28, 2012 by RyIke