Griefing: Everyone's Problem

[Veluthurk]

WoW actually put the zombified players into a separate faction the main factions could kill, and certain abilities of some of the healing classes could remove the infection debuff. Many players were actively doing that and killing off the zombies to the extreme ire of the players who were intentionally trying to zombify themselves because they wanted to wipe out the lowbie leveling areas. Yes, they were rather livid as some of the whispers they sent indicated. Because of that they decided to go to Shattrath where no one could attack them at all..

eh?

Some of our most epic fights were in Shat. I hated freekin Palis. Unfortunately with a HD crash I lost most of my screenies.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f85/Gnochance/_zombie/WoWScrnShot_102308_161223.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f85/Gnochance/_zombie/WoWScrnShot_102308_170702.jpg

 

BB was fun, too.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f85/Gnochance/_zombie/WoWScrnShot_102508_000253.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f85/Gnochance/_zombie/WoWScrnShot_102508_004011.jpg

[Quintan]

I didnt notice any griefing going on, and I play on a PVP server.

 

Lol that's cause most of us are on dead servers.

[Malastare]

First night, there was not a mass of glowing Green Gooey Griefers.

 

Infecting other players with the Rakghoul Plage is not griefing. Getting infected with the Rakghoul Plague is a standard effect caused by core game features. It is no different than getting Wamp Rat Fever against your desires.[1] Both infected players and Wamp Rats are part of the player environment and you don't get to be immune to either of them simply because you decide not to like the mechanism.

 

[ 1 ] : Except, of course, with Wamp Rat Fever, the debuff is more severe, and you get nothing if you die.

[JediElf]

If the Griefing and Griefers are allowed to continue unchallenged, and even some of their victims leave the game, then this would seem to lessenr the overall quality of the game. And tthen given time, what started as a small incident may grow into more typical behaviour, and the cycle continues.

 

I ask Bioware for some oractical Griefing bud nipping,

 

Agreed, this needs to be nipped in the bud, sooner than later.

 

We need a 'PVP Always Off' option.

[Elhanan]

This is not griefing.

 

Stop blowing even the tiniest discomfort out of proportions.

 

What was the worst thing that the disease could do?

 

You died a virtual death?

 

What exactly is not Griefing, for there appears to be at least some here that seem to agree that at least part of the examples are Griefing. Therefore, my asking to Bioware for further clarification.

 

You are welcome to your opinion; simply do not expect others to regard it as fact.

[Morbidheresy]

OP apparently had one incident that made him mad and now he wants an apology and back rub from bioware. get over it. i've played several hours a day since the plague and havent been griefed. havent heard of anybody who has.

[Elhanan]

Infecting other players with the Rakghoul Plage is not griefing. Getting infected with the Rakghoul Plague is a standard effect caused by core game features. It is no different than getting Wamp Rat Fever against your desires.[1] Both infected players and Wamp Rats are part of the player environment and you don't get to be immune to either of them simply because you decide not to like the mechanism.

 

[ 1 ] : Except, of course, with Wamp Rat Fever, the debuff is more severe, and you get nothing if you die.

 

If another Player is playing Wamp rats, then I might be as concerned. Instaed, some players choose to play as another form of vermin, and spoil and ruin play for others.

 

At least the PvE rats have my permission.

[Elhanan]

OP apparently had one incident that made him mad and now he wants an apology and back rub from bioware. get over it. i've played several hours a day since the plague and havent been griefed. havent heard of anybody who has.

 

Does sound pleasant, but I will settle for catching and possibly banning griefing from the game. But thanks anyway!

[CDSzafraniec]

For all of those complaining, I would reccomend you stop playing around every holiday, or you're just going to get annoyed. Events are implemented, untested, as fun things for the players. There will be some unintended consequences. That is just going to happen. And you may not be able to play as normal for the brief period of time that the event lasts. The actions taken during this time can hardly be classified as griefing, except in extreme cases.

How do you what is an exploit, and what is intended? Saying that the the pve people being flagged was an exploit or unintended...how do you know? Especially when you log in that first day? How do you know that jumping off the rail to get rid of the buff wasn't an exploit? You should punish those that flagged people just as much as every person who jumped off the rail.

And I am terribly amused to think that people spent large amounts of time, running around in groups, hoping their random, unknown timer would go off while they happened to be chasing down one of the three people actually out questing on Hoth. And that that person hadn't noticed the big flag on their character. And didn't deflag themselves or take the readily available vaccine. This is a minor incident that is easily avoidable for the massive majority.

 

But im off topic. Events are untested. Stuff will happen. Try to enjoy the event, or take a break while they happen. Otherwise there will be no events. And a far greater number of people will get bored and leave than the minority who complain about their 45 minutes a week window to play being spoiled by what is a fun event for the vast majority.

[Malastare]

If another Player is playing Wamp rats, then I might be as concerned. Instaed, some players choose to play as another form of vermin, and spoil and ruin play for others.

 

At least the PvE rats have my permission.

 

Again: You don't get to choose which game mechanics you are subject to. Both Wamp Rat Fever and the Rakghoul Plague are effects caused by game mechanics. Again, you are complaining because one is caused by an NPC and one is caused by a player, regardless of the fact that the result is the same for you, and that both of them are working as designed.

 

Please explain to me how having an infection caused by an NPC doesn't spoil your play, but having an infection caused by a player does.

[Drakkip]

Please explain to me how having an infection caused by an NPC doesn't spoil your play, but having an infection caused by a player does.

 

When it also PvP flags you when being infected on a PVE server.

[GreySix]

Does sound pleasant, but I will settle for catching and possibly banning griefing from the game. But thanks anyway!

 

Seconded. Video game tough guys can be entertaining, but go flex your thumb muscles on PvP servers or areas and compete there, while those of us who want the immersive story without video game tough guys play against the environment and perhaps even cooperatively with other players.

Edited April 24, 2012 by GreySix

[Elhanan]

Again: You don't get to choose which game mechanics you are subject to. Both Wamp Rat Fever and the Rakghoul Plague are effects caused by game mechanics. Again, you are complaining because one is caused by an NPC and one is caused by a player, regardless of the fact that the result is the same for you, and that both of them are working as designed.

 

Please explain to me how having an infection caused by an NPC doesn't spoil your play, but having an infection caused by a player does.

 

Never had Wamp Fever; they do not hang around on the Fleet. I generally know where those vermin are to be found, and if I desire, may get a vaccine to prevent the disease.

 

OTOH, the other carriers wander, and not all worlds and Med Stations had (or may have) vaccine.

 

And Players are to ask before Joining Missions and PvP; received no such msg. Sorry if I expect the Players to be more courteous than AI driven rats.

[Malastare]

When it also PvP flags you when being infected on a PVE server.

 

We've already been over this. Everyone agrees that it was bad.

 

That's not what the OP is still arguing about: He continues to say that simply allowing any infection was griefing.

 

Is that what you believe? Is it griefing to infect someone with the Rakghoul Plague?

 

If it is, then why isn't it griefing to kill another player on a PvP server? In both cases, you are using a core game mechanic to impact another person's game experience in a way that they may later decide was unpleasant.

[Calsetes]

This is not griefing. Stop blowing even the tiniest discomfort out of proportions. What was the worst thing that the disease could do? You died a virtual death?

 

No, the worst that the disease did was flag you for PvP on a PvE server only to be killed by a horde of opposing faction players who are no less than twenty feet from where you're going to respawn, and they're a much higher level than you. Have fun with your repair bill and your ten-minute wait for your flag to go away while the guys who just killed you in nonconsensual PvP on a PvE server sit on your corpse and say inappropriate stuff to you.

 

Because, you know, how DARE you expect to not PvP on a PvE server. You should just, like, go back to Warcraft if you like PvE, despite never playing Warcraft before.

[MightyHalo]

And the OP is why MMO's have been dumbed down so badly. You can't even pull off an event without incessant tears.

[tehsaturn]

*opens thread*

*head meets keyboard*

 

The event's already over, we're still going on with this?

 

*headkeyboard*

 

I'm not even going to try to argue at this point.

 

Though I'm going to miss divebombing from the VIP Lounge.

[mathisk]

The only "real" problem with the plague event was the unwanted PvP plagging, if you were infected by someone who was flagged for PvP. And that was only a problem if you were out exploring the world where you might actually encounter a PvP situation. Becoming PvP flagged on the fleet space station isn't really an issue. "Oh no! I'm PvP flagged for 5 minutes. Guess I should go get a drink/snack/breath of fresh air and then come back and continue browsing the GTN."

[GreySix]

And the OP is why MMO's have been dumbed down so badly. You can't even pull off an event without incessant tears.

 

And video game 'tough guys' who are too afraid of their own shadows to face those who choose to play PvP are what make MMOs unpleasant for those who desire a cooperative immersive gaming experience.

 

See what I did there?

Edited April 24, 2012 by GreySix

[Elhanan]

And the OP is why MMO's have been dumbed down so badly. You can't even pull off an event without incessant tears.

 

No tears, and the Event is fine (now that it is over). Tis the ones that choose to spoil play for others I hope to see stopped.

 

Thanks for your insight!

[KangasCollective]

On PVE servers only, they probably shouldn't have let infection flag you the way it did. Other than that, I think the pvp lended an interesting (and designed in from the start) element. Those who were shut out at the end of the reward turn in by camping should take comfort that Moderators had already said the vendor would return in some form.

 

On our server Republic camped the vendor for hours until Empire got enough players together and were riled up enough to camp it the last couple hours of the event in retribution.

 

I wouldn't really mind if someone had the forethought to design it differently though.

 

For example a solution/compromise. Jawas are nomadic. Make him move to one of 3 pre-determined locations randomly every couple hours.

 

"The Jawa vendor packs up his things and moves on..."

 

This way you can not 100% camp the spot. You can try to station people in all three spots but boredom will set in and that plan will fall apart.

[Kotadiatu]

I didn't really see it as a major event. It's the first event they have done that is major and affects everyone. Consider it a Beta. Seeing though a lot of people were initially frustrated with the outcome of the event; that just means in future those sorts of things will certainly be avoided.

[Felioats]

Using the plague to flag others for PvP had to have been an exploit. A flagged person could explode by an unflagged person, and they would become flagged through no action of their own. Players who exploited that should be banned.

 

Other than that, infecting others was encouraged, so I don't think it was griefing.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Felioats

[CDSzafraniec]

If you're being hunted by mobs of the opposing faction...thank your lucky stars your on a populated server!

 

It was a LIMITED TIME EVENT that was not tested for every mechanic. You died a few times to people that noticed, for this brief period, that some people who weren't paying attention may be killable.

 

Its not griefing. Its just not. None of those players should be punished for taking advantage of a mechanic that Bioware put in the game. It didn't take any mods, or system exploits, or anything like that. All it required was that you got infected by someone with who flagged you, didn't let yourself unflag, and got killed.

 

Not a single one of those people should be punished.

[Elhanan]

The only "real" problem with the plague event was the unwanted PvP plagging, if you were infected by someone who was flagged for PvP. And that was only a problem if you were out exploring the world where you might actually encounter a PvP situation. Becoming PvP flagged on the fleet space station isn't really an issue. "Oh no! I'm PvP flagged for 5 minutes. Guess I should go get a drink/snack/breath of fresh air and then come back and continue browsing the GTN."

 

Thing is, it is not just one's idea of Griefing that is critical; it is Biowares. Maybe they do or do not see other forms of spoiled play as Griefing, but they need to be made aware that these folks do see their play as spoiled.

 

And if even a single form of Griefing is left unchecked, then it may become worse. And based on the incidents seen in this first Event, it likely will degrade even more.