Roccobb Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Have they said they didn't intend for the flagging to happen? Seems they have not fixed everything else that will get you flagged, before or after the event, so I don't know what they intend. The only official stuff I have seen or heard from dev's was the Mos Eisley radio interview, and the lead game designer said the event was created to increase PVP. That comment also hints to me what it is they may or may not intend. I am sorry. I do want a dev to speak about what it is they intend, or what they don't intend. Even if I love this game, if they intend to keep it going down a path I don't like as a player, then I want to be able to make the choice on if the game is right for me or not. Right now, I would say I was 70% happy with the game. If the developers keep pushing out forced content that I don't like, then that number will go down. If they say hey, this was a mistake. A bug. A exploit, then that number would go up. I just want to know what they envision in their heads on where this game needs to go, so I know if I want to follow the same path or take a separate one. Ok, maybe this is just me putting on a tin foil hat, but I thought of another reason these are not exploits. An exploit is defined as repeating a bug, correct? What do they do when you post in the forums how to do a exploit? They delete the post. How many posts and threads have you seen that spell out all the ways to make somebody flag? Nine are deleted. If it was a bug, and therefore an exploit, they would be deleted. It is what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheroras Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 only General Grievous would be offended by the title of this thread:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightsOn Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 (edited) Have they said they didn't intend for the flagging to happen? Seems they have not fixed everything else that will get you flagged, before or after the event, so I don't know what they intend. The only official stuff I have seen or heard from dev's was the Mos Eisley radio interview, and the lead game designer said the event was created to increase PVP. That comment also hints to me what it is they may or may not intend. I am sorry. I do want a dev to speak about what it is they intend, or what they don't intend. Even if I love this game, if they intend to keep it going down a path I don't like as a player, then I want to be able to make the choice on if the game is right for me or not. Right now, I would say I was 70% happy with the game. If the developers keep pushing out forced content that I don't like, then that number will go down. If they say hey, this was a mistake. A bug. A exploit, then that number would go up. I just want to know what they envision in their heads on where this game needs to go, so I know if I want to follow the same path or take a separate one. I put a question on the topic of PVP/PVE/PVE-Pure in the Q&A Thread. http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=4180488&postcount=135 My chats with Customer Support indicated they have no answer about the direction BW will be taking on this. So I voted with my $$ and stopped my 2 subs. My purpose in playing this game is to have FUN. I am not here to provide LOLs to others only for myself. If the game is changing from what it was advertised at the beginning or my understanding of the game, then this may not be The Right Game for me. So I voted with my $$. IF BW can respond to the overall issues being expressed in a way that promotes tolerance for all play styles, I will ra-affirm my support with $$ again. But for now, I am not interested in Open World PVP and Forced PVP Events. I play PVE-Pure - and that has nothing to do with PVP at all. Edited April 29, 2012 by LightsOn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I put a question on the topic of PVP/PVE/PVE-Pure in the Q&A Thread. http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=4180488&postcount=135 My chats with Customer Support indicated they have no answer about the direction BW will be taking on this. So I voted with my $$ and stopped my 2 subs. My purpose in playing this game is to have FUN. I am not here to provide LOLs to others only for myself. If the game is changing from what it was advertised at the beginning or my understanding of the game, then this may not be The Right Game for me. So I voted with my $$. IF BW can respond to the overall issues being expressed in a way that promotes tolerance for all play styles, I will ra-affirm my support with $$ again. But for now, I am not interested in Open World PVP and Forced PVP Events. I play PVE-Pure - and that has nothing to do with PVP at all. Cannot say I blame you. That is the best way for a paying customer to vote on something. But I would give them some more time. Somethings do take time to change or implement. Not a lot of time tho...in my case..they have until my sub runs out this Aug. For me...that is more than enough time for them to make the right changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roccobb Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Cannot say I blame you. That is the best way for a paying customer to vote on something. But I would give them some more time. Somethings do take time to change or implement. Not a lot of time tho...in my case..they have until my sub runs out this Aug. For me...that is more than enough time for them to make the right changes. Lol, if they refuse to tell us what they actually intend, how much time is appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Lol, if they refuse to tell us what they actually intend, how much time is appropriate. For me...until Aug 16th. I guess the amount of time would vary with the player. I can understand the flustration tho. I donot think BioWare has done a very good job on addressing a lot of the concerns posted on the forums. I mean you can go to say WoW's and you will see Blizz moderators, developers posting often in threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deyjarl Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I would pay any amount of money for a dev to come in and say OP wasn't griefed and that it was working as intended. He would still say he was griefed. OP = The boy who cried Grief. Devs have already said the event was bugged. And have said a long time ago exploiting to force people to be flagged is a TOS violation and can be reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roccobb Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Devs have already said the event was bugged. And have said a long time ago exploiting to force people to be flagged is a TOS violation and can be reported. Where did they say that? I read every dev tracker post, have every dev I know of on twitter. Read every article I can find. I have yet to see them acknowledge this. Please share with the rest of us where it was stated. I may have missed it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dralanna Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Where did they say that? I read every dev tracker post, have every dev I know of on twitter. Read every article I can find. I have yet to see them acknowledge this. Please share with the rest of us where it was stated. I may have missed it... This is true.... while I think it likely that it was a bug, I have not seen anything from BW confirming it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatebomb Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Devs have already said the event was bugged. And have said a long time ago exploiting to force people to be flagged is a TOS violation and can be reported. Great however that's not what happened to OP. he didn't get flagged he got infected in the fleet with his level 10. He says he was griefed becuase he was forced to spend all his money for a cure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterBurst Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 There was an issue where you could be flagged accidently for PVP when a person from the opposing faction who was PVP exploded. Also if someone who exploded on a PVP flagged person can also become flagged for PVP. But this is not griefing because this was caused by an unintention bug in the game, not by someone intentionly trying to flag a player for pvp. The big thing to remember is that griefing is an intental harrassment or iritation cause by a player onto another player. Examples of griefing is spawn camping players, calling players slanderous names, stealing out of guild banks, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roccobb Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 There was an issue where you could be flagged accidently for PVP when a person from the opposing faction who was PVP exploded. Also if someone who exploded on a PVP flagged person can also become flagged for PVP. But this is not griefing because this was caused by an unintention bug in the game, not by someone intentionly trying to flag a player for pvp. The big thing to remember is that griefing is an intental harrassment or iritation cause by a player onto another player. Examples of griefing is spawn camping players, calling players slanderous names, stealing out of guild banks, etc... All I have been saying the last few pages is, they have not acknowledged it was a bug. If it was a bug, and people exploited it to make me or anyone flag, then it becomes an exploit. If it was a bug, and therefore an exploit, yet have they not deleted any posts saying how to use this exploit, or any of the other ways of getting a player to flag? If those ways are not a bug, and are intentionally in the game, I would like to hear that from them as well, so I can decide if this is the game for me. Somebody said they said it was a bug. I ask for a reference. None has been produced yet. A dev comment would save a lot of heartache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elhanan Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Where did they say that? I read every dev tracker post, have every dev I know of on twitter. Read every article I can find. I have yet to see them acknowledge this. Please share with the rest of us where it was stated. I may have missed it... Found this, though it may not be the droid we are seeking: Staavis Republic@StaavisRepublic · Open @Rockjaw I'm curious, why the immediate fix for the exploit, but no immediate fix for the plague which won't go away? 12:36 PM - 27 Apr 12via web · Details Stephen Reid@Rockjaw @StaavisRepublic An exploit can have serious long-term repercussions on the game. The plague's a bug (being fixed) but not as serious. Staavis Republic@StaavisRepublic · Open @Rockjaw Ok, was just curious. Any timeframe when the plague might be gone for good? Stephen Reid@Rockjaw @StaavisRepublic Should be after next week's maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatebomb Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 All I have been saying the last few pages is, they have not acknowledged it was a bug. If it was a bug, and people exploited it to make me or anyone flag, then it becomes an exploit. If it was a bug, and therefore an exploit, yet have they not deleted any posts saying how to use this exploit, or any of the other ways of getting a player to flag? If those ways are not a bug, and are intentionally in the game, I would like to hear that from them as well, so I can decide if this is the game for me. Somebody said they said it was a bug. I ask for a reference. None has been produced yet. A dev comment would save a lot of heartache. I don't believe it was a bug I believe it was an unintended thing that happened but not an exploit per se do no bans or deleted posts about it. But if BW would simply say one way or the other it would at least give OP some peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDeanOU Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Clearly you do not play PVP. Your arguments do not hold up there. The plague caused the player to become stunned during times when a few seconds means life and death. It changes the outcomes of matches. The vaccine does not persist through death but the plague does. I can not afford to spend 2k per death in PVP. The costs are prohibitively expensive. The plague does not persist through death. Sorry, but you strike out on this complaint as well. In PVP you die far too quickly for the plague to matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDeanOU Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Ok, maybe this is just me putting on a tin foil hat, but I thought of another reason these are not exploits. An exploit is defined as repeating a bug, correct? What do they do when you post in the forums how to do a exploit? They delete the post. How many posts and threads have you seen that spell out all the ways to make somebody flag? Nine are deleted. If it was a bug, and therefore an exploit, they would be deleted. It is what they do. Check the patch notes for 2-24-2012. You will find this quote. Using abilities with indirect targeting (such as area of effect abilities) will no longer cause players to be flagged for PvP if a PvP-flagged player from the opposing faction is within the ability's range, and the ability will have no effect on the PvP-flagged player. This bug where the Plague explosions caused PVP flagging if it spread to a player of the opposite faction is very obviously a recurrence of this bug. It has the exact same characteristics as the original bug that they fixed with this patch. Since they didn't test the event in order to keep it a surprise they had no opportunity to catch the bug before it went live and there wasn't much of an opportunity to fix the bug given the limited duration of the event. It was obviously and clearly a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavensAgent Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 The big thing to remember is that griefing is an intental harrassment or iritation cause by a player onto another player. Examples of griefing is spawn camping players, calling players slanderous names, stealing out of guild banks, etc...Except that none of these things are considered griefing by Bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerJBD Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 OP wasn't griefed, no matter how many times he complains that he was. People who were involuntarily flagged for PvP and then killed and in some cases corpse camped have a legitimate griefing complaint. OP wants a single player game but bought a massively multiplayer game. That is his problem. Not griefing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elhanan Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 OP wasn't griefed, no matter how many times he complains that he was. People who were involuntarily flagged for PvP and then killed and in some cases corpse camped have a legitimate griefing complaint. OP wants a single player game but bought a massively multiplayer game. That is his problem. Not griefing. You are correct that I wish this was a single player game; would remove all the Griefing, and I could use console commands to gain better gear. But until then, I must endure being less wealthy, and report the Griefers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollokdamus Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 The plague does not persist through death. The early stage of it does. The optimal solution would be to auto-remove the debuff upon entering a WZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elhanan Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Except that none of these things are considered griefing by Bioware. Perhaps it is: http://www.swtor.com/support/helpcenter/1880 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavensAgent Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Perhaps it is: http://www.swtor.com/support/helpcenter/1880Nope, all of the things listed can easily be avoided by the means offered in the game to do so. It's not considered griefing until someone acts to circumvent these methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elhanan Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Corpse camping, slander, and theft all have methods of prevention; Locks in place to aid against Griefing. This past Event illustrated that if a mechanism was provided, some folks would use it to Corpse Camp victims. And if slander bypasses the chosen methods of prevention used by the victims, that is harassment. And if the Guild prevention methods are bypassed for someone to steal funds, then theft has occured; a breaking of the RoC. If such actions are done to spoil and ruin play for others, it could be Griefing under the rules provided, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roccobb Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Corpse camping, slander, and theft all have methods of prevention; Locks in place to aid against Griefing. What is the method of preventing corpse camping? Med droids in the middle of no where have nothing around them to prevent such behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elhanan Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 (edited) What is the method of preventing corpse camping? Med droids in the middle of no where have nothing around them to prevent such behavior. As I understand, Corpse Camping typically occurs in PvP when a victim dies, and others do not allow them to respawn, or kill them in place repeatedly. Bioware has at least two methods to allow Respawning, so this part is restricted. And in many cases, there are two places to respawn, so Camping is made more difficult. Amd some stations do have guards, so this is also a preventive measure. And they made most PvE areas quite safe. But Griefers will find a way, and manage to PK someone they Flagged via Plague bug or other method, and chase the victim to the Med Station, and continue to kill them there repeatedly. As least, this seems like Griefing to me. Edited April 29, 2012 by Elhanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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