Griefing: Everyone's Problem

[Dralanna]

From Support:

 

Those are rules for joining groups.... they didn't add you to their group against your will, did they?

[Elhanan]

Those are rules for joining groups.... they didn't add you to their group against your will, did they?

 

Thay included me in their Mission objectives, like some of the other bonus quests. Except, as another Player, I am supposed to grant permission. Note:

 

Forming/Joining a Group

 

To create or join a group, a player either invites one or more character into a party or receives a group invite. If you are sent a group invite, you have the option to accept or decline the invitation. The player who sends out the initial invite is designated the group leader. There are two ways to invite a player to join your group.

 

Chat Window: Type /invite followed by the player’s name in the Chat Window.

 

Social Window: Right-click any player's name in the Social Window and select INVITE TO GROUP.

 

Player's Portrait: A button appears next to another players portrait in the game. Clicking that button will send an grouping invitation to that player.

 

Again, this is about following the rules; not Griefing. It could be, but that has been debated.

[Dralanna]

Thay included me in their Mission objectives, like some of the other bonus quests. Except, as another Player, I am supposed to grant permission. Note:

 

 

 

Again, this is about following the rules; not Griefing. It could be, but that has been debated.

 

Using you to complete mission objectives has nothing to do with grouping, and therefore the rule you stated is not applicable.

[Romiz]

Sorry but that was not griefing.

[mathisk]

Thay included me in their Mission objectives, like some of the other bonus quests. Except, as another Player, I am supposed to grant permission. Note:

 

Again, this is about following the rules; not Griefing. It could be, but that has been debated.

 

Wait... So you're saying that you were "griefed" simply because someone got a "point" for infecting you with the Rakghoul disease without your prior approval? Ok. There's making a point. There's overdoing a point. And then there's this.

 

I hope you got permission slips from all those mobs you killed while you were leveling your alts. Otherwise you're guilty of griefing them, since they counted toward your quest completion.

[JediElf]

For some people it wasn't one death. They were corpse camped at the medic droid. It's a stupid bug and the same people who believe that exploiting a bug on a PVE server is ok, are likey the same people who thought heck why not after exploiting a bug and pvp flagging the guy corpse camp him at the rez spawn... Until he logs out in frustration.

 

I don't want people who think that way to be able to impact my gaming experience. I'm not here arguing that there shouldn't be PvP servers, heck, make a server where it is completely open PvP even on your same faction, that way all these people who get off on it can all congregate there. There's no reason however that people who elect to play on PVE servers should be corpse camped at the rez spawn for something they did NOT consent to.

 

Pretty much this.

 

Why is this a debate? Why is this even a discussion?

 

If you want to PVP then play on the PVP server, that's what they are for. If you use AOE or Mob tagging to flag someone, then kill them, on a PVE server, then it's not really PVP now is it.

 

It's not that hard to understand.

 

The AOE/MobTag/Disease PVP tag explosion thing needs to be fixed, so that players who are on PVE servers can be free from any non-consented PVP.

 

That's all there is to it.

 

If it ever gets out of hand, and they begin to lose subscriptions over this, then yes, it really will be everyone's problem.

 

...and that's my 2 copper on the matter, I'm outta this one.

Edited April 26, 2012 by JediElf

[Qilue]

No, QQ is complaining, crying. Usually with many many posts on the subject.

 

Originates from a Japanese emoticon using single byte characters (p.q) which evolved into QQ.

 

http://www.japaneseemoticons.net/sad-or-crying-emoticons/

[DevonDs]

And video game 'tough guys' who are too afraid of their own shadows to face those who choose to play PvP are what make MMOs unpleasant for those who desire a cooperative immersive gaming experience.

 

See what I did there?

 

Yes I do. You insulted all of us who choose to not play pvp....you were slighted by one person so you insulted me and many others who did not insult you or people who pvp......

So yes... I see exactly what you did there....

[Darkulous]

BW just needs to make PvE (Safe Mode) servers. Obviously the PvE servers we have now are too hardcore for some. Edited April 26, 2012 by Darkulous

[HeavensAgent]

I agree that I cannot know the intent of the other Player in my own personal example. My ex could be the first to testify I cannot read minds.

 

However, I am willing to go forward with the circumstantial evidence that when someone detonates in a crowd of the Cantina area of the Fleet, probably had access to the known intel of the workings of the infection (ie; Mission and any Codex entries), and could have gotten aid at prior Med and Stim shops before reaching the Fleet (ie; seemingly only Origin worlds seem to lack serum), that it is likely their intent was not benevolant.

You might be willing to base action on circumstantial evidence, but Bioware isn't. Nor should the y be.

 

We're talking about an instance where the producer or distributor is disciplining the customer. It's a very sticky situation of role reversal. If the individual that receives punishment was in fact acting with the intent to harass another player, Bioware would be applauded. If a guilty individual is let off the hook, if he or she does not receive punishment, a few might complain. In the worse case scenario a handful of subscriptions are lost. Not a big deal in the scheme of things.

 

If Bioware acts against a customer that is innocent of wrongdoing, the event could potentially break the entire company. Best case scenario in such situations results in a private apology to the wronged customer and perhaps some monetary compensation of some kind. The typical response, however, is a public outcry. A public apology has to be issued, a review and alteration of corporate and/or management policy must be performed, jobs might be lost, and some form of reparation must still be given. Regardless, Bioware would lose the trust of a significant portion of the community; players reevaluate their investments in the game, considering what they would lose should they be the victim of false action. Sizable chunks of active subscriptions are often lost in such incidents as players decide that the game isn't worth the hassle of potential moderation and loss of time or money.

 

The third situation, though probably the least common, is also the most damaging. Taking moderator action against an innocent individual is, essentially, taking someone's money for a service and then denying access after payment is made. it's theft, pure and simple. If there is sufficient evidence that Bioware did not perform their due diligence in determining the intent of the subscriber before action was taken, they could face legal repercussions. As we mentioned before, it is nearly impossible to determine intent unless that intent is demonstrated by action, which in turn means that should things progress to this point Bioware would have no defense to the charges.

 

So in short, yes, it does stink and yes, it is a real pain to deal with. That said, Bioware has to give offending players the benefit of the doubt in such situations. Failure to do so in this industry has historically proven disastrous on more than one occasion.

 

And if it ain't Griefing, it is still a violation of the rules to include me in a Mission without permission on a PvE server; be it a PvP action or one of Joining for a Group, I believe.

No such rule exists. Especially in the situation generated as a result of the event. Edited April 26, 2012 by HeavensAgent

[CrisG]

I am glad to see people caring about keeping the game fun and clean...and it is clear who is griefing and who is not. They know they are and we can see they are. It is simple and the fix is simple too. I am sure Bioware will make changes to help keep things fun. Thanks for all the great comments here, and I am happy to see those who still can't see the truth are a small minority.

 

This is a game and intended to be fun.

[Drakkip]

BW just needs to make PvE (Safe Mode) servers. Obviously the PvE servers we have now are too hardcore for some.

 

Someone posted they were flagged through the bug then corpse camped at the medical droid on a PVE server. It has nothing to do with being "hard core" In fact I don't know if this happens on PvP servers but at the stage where someone is killed back to their rez point and then corpse camped and cannot participate in the game, something is very wrong with the game mechanics.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Drakkip

[Elhanan]

Wait... So you're saying that you were "griefed" simply because someone got a "point" for infecting you with the Rakghoul disease without your prior approval? Ok. There's making a point. There's overdoing a point. And then there's this.

 

I hope you got permission slips from all those mobs you killed while you were leveling your alts. Otherwise you're guilty of griefing them, since they counted toward your quest completion.

 

Not at all; replying to someone that does not believe that infecting = attacking, so I offer another policy puzzle.

 

I do believe that infevting someone with a disease that kills is attacking. Silly me.....

[TalkingDinosaur]

All Bioware had to do is have some Elite Containment Soldiers patrol the Space Station and take out anyone who is infected.... This would of kept the Space Station free of the disease and discourage players from camping on the station and provide a safe zone....

 

Their other mistake was they should of made the serum free instead of charging 2k credits.....

 

Pretty simple solution but as usually over looked by Bioware....

Another prodigy speaks holy words.*

 

* /Sarcasm

[Elhanan]

BW just needs to make PvE (Safe Mode) servers. Obviously the PvE servers we have now are too hardcore for some.

 

Agreed. Too much Griefing for me. Happy?

 

Ironically, if you are a 'Care Bear' and wish to avoid Griefing: -----> PvP

[Dralanna]

Not at all; replying to someone that does not believe that infecting = attacking, so I offer another policy puzzle.

 

I do believe that infevting someone with a disease that kills is attacking. Silly me.....

 

Yes, it is silly. As I pointed out in the prior thread, you can actually find a definition of attacking (combat actually) in the New Player Guide that you often like to quote. It states that to attack you left click or press the corresponding key for the ability you want to use. You do neither with the rakghoul disease. You cannot trigger it, you cannot direct it, unless you manually time it you have no idea when it's going to occur, when you're about to explode, you cannot move. If BW meant it to be an attack, thats about the worst "weapon" even developed.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Dralanna

[Bhaers]

BW just needs to make PvE (Safe Mode) servers. Obviously the PvE servers we have now are too hardcore for some.

 

Complete with swords made of foam. No sharp edges to cut themselves on.

/cry

[Elhanan]

Complete with swords made of foam. No sharp edges to cut themselves on.

/cry

 

Aye; to match the wits of our foes....

 

Read a little that some are still infecting others; anyone get locations?

[Tatebomb]

To all the Forum lawyers that don't believe anything:

 

Hello everyone! James Ohlen, Game Director for Star Wars: The Old Republic, is looking for your feedback on the game's development once again. This week, with the Rakghoul Plague finally contained, he's looking for feedback on in-game events.

 

James takes feedback directly via his Twitter account (@JamesOhlen), but if you're not on Twitter, his question is below and you can give your feedback here which will be passed on to him.

 

As always, we ask you to limit your feedback to the question at hand and keep your feedback constructive as well as on-topic!

 

Here is James' question for this week:

 

"The Rakghoul Plague was a very popular event. You’re going to see more surprises like it in the future.

 

I want to hear your thoughts on why you thought the Rakghoul plague was fun. Also, what kind of stuff would you like to see in the future?"

 

As a reminder, you can follow James on Twitter @JamesOhlen. You can also follow our main account @SWTOR.

 

The Game director says it was a popular event. Can we at least agree on that now?

[Tatebomb]

Aye; to match the wits of our foes....

 

Read a little that some are still infecting others; anyone get locations?

 

REPORT THEM!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek: Oh wait vaccines are still around. Anyone too poor on Jedi Covenant give me a shout I'll buy you 20 of em.

[Elhanan]

Yes, it is silly. As I pointed out in the prior thread, you can actually find a definition of attacking (combat actually) in the New Player Guide that you often like to quote. It states that to attack you left click or press the corresponding key for the ability you want to use. You do neither with the rakghoul disease. You cannot trigger it, you cannot direct it, unless you manually time it you have no idea when it's going to occur, when you're about to explode, you cannot move. If BW meant it to be an attack, thats about the worst "weapon" even developed.

 

You make it sound a bit like a Proton terpedo; silly thing blocks reg missles in the tubes and has limited targets. Still, it is classified as a weapon upgrade, I believe; be it a poor one or not.....

[Elhanan]

REPORT THEM!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek: Oh wait vaccines are still around. Anyone too poor on Jedi Covenant give me a shout I'll buy you 20 of em.

 

Could use some extras on Taris; chances of Plague seem real enough, and the serum still costs 2k.

 

However, be aware that it may glitch the Mission in which you test the serum for a doctor on the ground. It seems to be rather hard to become infected while this batch offers Immunity. Oh well; prevention was a priority!

 

Thankfully, the majority of characters encountered ny myself are polite; wait in line and do not steal loot spawns, kills, etc. Maybe they can place all the reported Griefers on one server during these transfers, let them feast off their own for a while.

[Bhaers]

Thankfully, the majority of characters encountered ny myself are polite; wait in line and do not steal loot spawns, kills, etc. Maybe they can place all the reported Griefers on one server during these transfers, let them feast off their own for a while.

 

Only if you are put with them so that you stop harping on about this. The event is no more! It has ceased to be! The event's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed it to the perch it'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! It's off the twig! kicked the bucket, shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-EVENT!!

 

Seriously: dead horse, wooden stick, flies over the corpse levels of beating a dead horse.

 

Let it go.

[Thornsbane]

You make it sound a bit like a Proton terpedo; silly thing blocks reg missles in the tubes and has limited targets. Still, it is classified as a weapon upgrade, I believe; be it a poor one or not.....

 

You still have a Proton Torpedo in the tube if its blocking normal missiles, even if it says zero are left.

 

If your saying that infecting other players is attacking and trying to have it removed, or tweaked for PvE servers, then you need to lighten up.

It seems to me in this case you have fallen into the bracket of people that have a horrible emotional experience (ie, getting killed by other players a few times in a MMO) then go on the forums and whinge and cry about it and demand BW do something about it because they are valued customers (of a whopping $15/month).

 

Sure, maybe on a PvE server you should never, never, EVER be forced to combat another live person, but it seems to me that since its only happened a few times during this one event, going on and on about it is technically called whinging.

 

Why cant you just go "Well those guys totally found a way to kill me, and it kinda sucked for 20mins.".....and move on?

[LightsOn]

Opt Out Flag means OPT OUT.

 

Those that want in, turn on your PVP flag. Those who do not want to PVP in an event or otherwise turn on OPT OUT which would prevent PVP flag from being enabled auto-magically.

 

Everywhere on The Fleet should be IMMUNE for ALL players. L10s come in from the noob planets and others come in who are in transit to the GTN or other planets and are not the target audience for these events.

 

If you want to PVP fine. If I don't want to PVP, I don't want to be griefed into PVP mode standing at the GTN for the yucks. Anything that FORCES me to participate and then have to PAY MY CREDITS to get it fixed is griefing.