To all the healers crying about 1.2

[Scoloplastic]

According to the people in this forum - one dps on a healer should never be able to kill him. That's usually what happens in WoW - you can't really kill a pvp geared healer alone, unless you manage to run him out of mana.

 

Well - there are 2 differences between WoW and this:

1. Resources here are much harder to run out of. True it's been balanced a bit in 1.2 but still nowhere near where it is in WoW.

2. WoW didn't have guard! Seriously - if one DPS can't put enough pressure and hopefully kill one solo healer (good healers, especially Operative healers, are still very hard to kill) - what will DPS do against guarded healers?

 

Currently healers with guard are extremely difficult to kill, I've seen 3 and 4 dps hammering down on one guarded healer and not managing to dps him down - if a good, tank specced and geared player is guarding them, between all the taunts and CC, and healer taking 50% less damage - it takes a tremendous effort to kill them.

 

As long as guard is in the game, healer survivability should be balanced around that - otherwise, they'll be gods when guarded - and they will be guarded 100% of the time in ranked pvp. in actuality i feel a tank-healer combo is too durable even at the moment, but the time for that discussion will come when real ranked pvp arrives.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Scoloplastic

[Ancard]

According to the people in this forum - one dps on a healer should never be able to kill him. That's usually what happens in WoW - you can't really kill a pvp geared healer alone, unless you manage to run him out of mana.

 

Well - there are 2 differences between WoW and this:

1. Resources here are much harder to run out of. True it's been balanced a bit in 1.2 but still nowhere near where it is in WoW.

2. WoW didn't have guard! Seriously - if one DPS can't put enough pressure and hopefully kill one solo healer (good healers, especially Operative healers, are still very hard to kill) - what will DPS do against guarded healers?

 

Currently healers with guard are extremely difficult to kill, I've seen 3 and 4 dps hammering down on one guarded healer and not managing to dps him down - if a good, tank specced and geared player is guarding them, between all the taunts and CC, and healer taking 50% less damage - it takes a tremendous effort to kill them.

 

As long as guard is in the game, healer survivability should be balanced around that - otherwise, they'll be gods when guarded - and they will be guarded 100% of the time in ranked pvp. in actuality i feel a tank-healer combo is too durable even at the moment, but the time for that discussion will come when real ranked pvp arrives.

 

I have no problems 1 v 1 healers in wow on any of my dps toons. I think the bigger problem is the player base just isn't that good here so they feel healing has to be nerfed.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Ancard

[Karizza]

According to the people in this forum - one dps on a healer should never be able to kill him. That's usually what happens in WoW - you can't really kill a pvp geared healer alone, unless you manage to run him out of mana.

 

Well - there are 2 differences between WoW and this:

1. Resources here are much harder to run out of. True it's been balanced a bit in 1.2 but still nowhere near where it is in WoW.

2. WoW didn't have guard! Seriously - if one DPS can't put enough pressure and hopefully kill one solo healer (good healers, especially Operative healers, are still very hard to kill) - what will DPS do against guarded healers?

 

Currently healers with guard are extremely difficult to kill, I've seen 3 and 4 dps hammering down on one guarded healer and not managing to dps him down - if a good, tank specced and geared player is guarding them, between all the taunts and CC, and healer taking 50% less damage - it takes a tremendous effort to kill them.

 

As long as guard is in the game, healer survivability should be balanced around that - otherwise, they'll be gods when guarded - and they will be guarded 100% of the time in ranked pvp. in actuality i feel a tank-healer combo is too durable even at the moment, but the time for that discussion will come when real ranked pvp arrives.

 

I could care less about WoW. When did people start balancing SWtor play with WoW? Most people here know WoW stunk, was stale, etc and came here to play looking for a change.

 

The game was perfectly balanced for healer/dps prior to 1.2 and is now broken. True statement. If you want a WoW type of balance go back and play WoW please, and leave us SWtor players to play this game as it was tested and released.

[Gibbzter]

According to the people in this forum - one dps on a healer should never be able to kill him. That's usually what happens in WoW - you can't really kill a pvp geared healer alone, unless you manage to run him out of mana.

 

Well - there are 2 differences between WoW and this:

1. Resources here are much harder to run out of. True it's been balanced a bit in 1.2 but still nowhere near where it is in WoW.

2. WoW didn't have guard! Seriously - if one DPS can't put enough pressure and hopefully kill one solo healer (good healers, especially Operative healers, are still very hard to kill) - what will DPS do against guarded healers?

 

Currently healers with guard are extremely difficult to kill, I've seen 3 and 4 dps hammering down on one guarded healer and not managing to dps him down - if a good, tank specced and geared player is guarding them, between all the taunts and CC, and healer taking 50% less damage - it takes a tremendous effort to kill them.

 

As long as guard is in the game, healer survivability should be balanced around that - otherwise, they'll be gods when guarded - and they will be guarded 100% of the time in ranked pvp. in actuality i feel a tank-healer combo is too durable even at the moment, but the time for that discussion will come when real ranked pvp arrives.

 

Except there are lots of moron tank hybrids that would put Guard on a marauder instead of the heals (on my server anyway). To rely on tanks to Guard your healer for the 1.2 changes to even out is asking alot.

[Roccobb]

I could care less about WoW. When did people start balancing SWtor play with WoW? Most people here know WoW stunk, was stale, etc and came here to play looking for a change.

 

The game was perfectly balanced for healer/dps prior to 1.2 and is now broken. True statement. If you want a WoW type of balance go back and play WoW please, and leave us SWtor players to play this game as it was tested and released.

 

It was not balanced before. As a sage healer, I could survive against 2 dps by myself for at least a minute, until help arrived. Now, I can't even survive 1 v 1, unless someone does give me guard. (Happened 3 times so far in pugs)

[Delrusant]

I do not know why healers are crying, they may be more focused, but they are still qui hard to kill 1 on 1 except for classes with enough interrupt.

 

Maybe the crying healers are those going with PvE gear into PvP? If theyr are light armor character they loose 50% damage reduction compared to PvP geared healers (full rakata versus full battlemaster).

[Banicks]

Guys it goes from two extremes.

 

#1: I'm solo with no guard. I don't last more than 10 seconds in full BM gear and complete heal spec 1v1. Why? Heals were nerfed, and DPS was buffed.

 

#2: I'm guarded with one of my Sin tank spec. Invincible almost. We're both geared well and know our classes, on Novare Coast we 'duo' held 2v6 west point for 2 minutes.

 

I find sorc healers are now in PvP what warriors were in WoW. Warriors needed a pocket healer to be effective, sorc healers need a pocket tank to be effective.

 

As a result of this, I've quit PvP because it is just a pure zerg fest and my heals in solo queue are a wasted slot when my heals dont even negate the DPS my target is receiving unless theyre tank spec with mitigation.

 

Boss fights hit for less and including board heals, PvE is now 10 times easier to heal even with nerfs than PvP.

 

I know Ops got buffed, but stuffed if Im going to reroll just because prior to 1.2 DPS were crying that we could outheal 3v1 on us. I'll just wait for the next round of buffs/nerfs.

 

PS. Our heals are mostly always interupted now as well, to the point it should fill resolve and a full resolve ignores interupts.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Banicks

[Ravashakk]

According to the people in this forum - one dps on a healer should never be able to kill him. That's usually what happens in WoW - you can't really kill a pvp geared healer alone, unless you manage to run him out of mana.

 

Well - there are 2 differences between WoW and this:

1. Resources here are much harder to run out of. True it's been balanced a bit in 1.2 but still nowhere near where it is in WoW.

2. WoW didn't have guard! Seriously - if one DPS can't put enough pressure and hopefully kill one solo healer (good healers, especially Operative healers, are still very hard to kill) - what will DPS do against guarded healers?

 

Currently healers with guard are extremely difficult to kill, I've seen 3 and 4 dps hammering down on one guarded healer and not managing to dps him down - if a good, tank specced and geared player is guarding them, between all the taunts and CC, and healer taking 50% less damage - it takes a tremendous effort to kill them.

 

As long as guard is in the game, healer survivability should be balanced around that - otherwise, they'll be gods when guarded - and they will be guarded 100% of the time in ranked pvp. in actuality i feel a tank-healer combo is too durable even at the moment, but the time for that discussion will come when real ranked pvp arrives.

 

I'll play along with your analogy having played wow for 6 years, all of which included pvp as heals for 90% of it. I was pretty damn good on my resto druid, holy pally and resto shaman in battlegrounds and kind of in arenas (never had the patience). I could hold my ground against most every dps 1v1, but no matter how good I was, some really good dps with time could eventually kill me. Some had to run me out of mana, some didn't. BUT, none of them bursted me down in 5 secs or w/e like this game does.

 

So you use guard as a reason for healers being easy 1v1 because they are strong when another player protects them. This is very flawed, because I spend way more time without guard on me (and in range) than I do with it. I agree a healer with guard on, and a tank actually protecting them is a strong combo, but just like anything else a coordinated team will still rip them apart with enough focus fire. The problem you are encountering is you spend all your time beating on the healer instead of beating on the tank. It is way quicker to cc/interrupt the healer and focus the tank, then worry about the healer once the tank dies. A good dps will keep the healer just trying to keep himself up, and the few heals he does get off on his tank will be outdpsed. I'm not going to sit here and suggest that this combo will die in seconds....but they shouldn't.

 

For the record, there is this geared healer on my server that no one likes, that we focus all the time (pre1.2). He'll have guard on, and we still burst him down in less than 10 secs with 3-4 of us on him. That's 3v2, and he still dies in short order with the all powerful guard on. Why? Because we know how to play our class. You can't balance pvp around the premise that you want ppl that don't know their class to succeed at everything. Those players need to overcome their shortcomings, and not penalize those of us that know how to play.

 

My idea, as I stated in another thread, should be this.

 

1. Get rid of trauma, because punishing healers for being healers is just stupid....especially since it requires no thought to make healing less effective on the other players' part.

2. Give all classes a -healing debuff for 25% that stacks universally with others, but every application past the first adds 10% up to like 75%. The stacks are cleansable.

 

This does a number of things. Like I said, it stops auto punishing healers for no reason in pvp. Now it puts skill back into fighting healers and some powerful combos they can be with more healers/guard. Now healers will have to cleanse more than just trying to heal through everything. Although personally I am guilty of this intentionally due to the fact that sometimes you can't cleanse when someone is dying so quickly. I think this should also come with a better debuff detection system on the UI (character bar changes color if you can cleanse something off them). The last thing that I can think of is it will also bring in debuff stacking to protect your healing debuff stack from cleanse. Sometimes putting pointless debuffs up is smart when guarding more important debuffs on the focus target.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Ravashakk

[Totgug]

According to the people in this forum - one dps on a healer should never be able to kill him. That's usually what happens in WoW - you can't really kill a pvp geared healer alone, unless you manage to run him out of mana.

 

Well - there are 2 differences between WoW and this:

1. Resources here are much harder to run out of. True it's been balanced a bit in 1.2 but still nowhere near where it is in WoW.

2. WoW didn't have guard! Seriously - if one DPS can't put enough pressure and hopefully kill one solo healer (good healers, especially Operative healers, are still very hard to kill) - what will DPS do against guarded healers?

 

Currently healers with guard are extremely difficult to kill, I've seen 3 and 4 dps hammering down on one guarded healer and not managing to dps him down - if a good, tank specced and geared player is guarding them, between all the taunts and CC, and healer taking 50% less damage - it takes a tremendous effort to kill them.

 

As long as guard is in the game, healer survivability should be balanced around that - otherwise, they'll be gods when guarded - and they will be guarded 100% of the time in ranked pvp. in actuality i feel a tank-healer combo is too durable even at the moment, but the time for that discussion will come when real ranked pvp arrives.

 

THIS ISNT WOW. STOP COMPARING WOW TO SWTOR. All you WOW girls need to go back to WOW if all you do is talk about it. WOW was a CRAP game for little girls to pve.

[mikegr]

If healers were really all powerful before 1.2, most people would be playing healers. For some reason, there has always been a shortage of healers on our server. The fact remains that it is a slow leveling and slow killing class that takes more skill to play correctly. All things being equal, if a healer is full heal spec and does nothing but heal, a dps in full dps spec should not be able to kill them. In fact, they should not be able to kill each other - that is called balance. What true balance does is make the outcome of each fight decided by gear and skill and puts it in the hands of each individual player. Currently the outcome of each fight containing a healer is decided by the devs and that takes the fun out of the game for the healer anyway. I have never played an mmo where the healers have absolutely no chance solo and are dps'd down in a few seconds, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out. Meanwhile, I'll be watching from the sidelines!

[germil]

Yes guard is one of the most biggest issue regarding healer balancing.

 

The two situations (without/with guard) are too far appart, and it is not possible to find a fair compromise.

 

Rigth now, healer, and burst in general, seems to be balanced with guard in mind. It is fine maybe in corrdinated full premades, but it makes healer life in pugs very not enjoyable : very easy to shut down, and too high burst. All classes should be viable in all contexts (i.e. premades/pugs).

 

Stuff like healing debuff and guard should not define the whole balance situation. Typically make guard 20%, healing debuff 10%, and rebalance involved classes accordingly (so that for example full tank still have a strong purpose).

 

Still such lower pourcentages have a meaning, and encourage classe synergies; but don't over penalise healers (and tanks in a way) if the complementary classe is not available (or don't want/know to teamplay)

[Taunque]

As a pvp Vanguard, I am VERY reluctant to put guard on healers now. The healer will still die under focused fire and I wind up half-dead because he's too busy trying to keep himself alive to keep me topped off. I'm almost better off NOT guarding the healer because at least I'll be at full health when he goes down.

 

Remember, only one tank can guard a healer but there's no limit to the zerg. Once a healer is marked, there's nothing I can do to keep a him alive against 4-5 Marauders that instantly jump him.

[noladev]

According to the people in this forum - one dps on a healer should never be able to kill him. That's usually what happens in WoW - you can't really kill a pvp geared healer alone, unless you manage to run him out of mana.

 

Well - there are 2 differences between WoW and this:

1. Resources here are much harder to run out of. True it's been balanced a bit in 1.2 but still nowhere near where it is in WoW.

2. WoW didn't have guard! Seriously - if one DPS can't put enough pressure and hopefully kill one solo healer (good healers, especially Operative healers, are still very hard to kill) - what will DPS do against guarded healers?

 

Currently healers with guard are extremely difficult to kill, I've seen 3 and 4 dps hammering down on one guarded healer and not managing to dps him down - if a good, tank specced and geared player is guarding them, between all the taunts and CC, and healer taking 50% less damage - it takes a tremendous effort to kill them.

 

As long as guard is in the game, healer survivability should be balanced around that - otherwise, they'll be gods when guarded - and they will be guarded 100% of the time in ranked pvp. in actuality i feel a tank-healer combo is too durable even at the moment, but the time for that discussion will come when real ranked pvp arrives.

 

Yea because we deserved to be the only class that requires a pocket tank to be effective.

 

You do realize that they made PUGing as a healer a gut wrenching experience right? Unsubbed the first time I spent an entire WZ in the respawn against a 5 marauder team.

[germil]

Remember, only one tank can guard a healer but there's no limit to the zerg.

 

Thats part of the problem as well. With guard set to 20% (again with relevent buffs to tanks) and by allowing it to stack, maybe it would solve some of the issues

[Kyaa]

I do not know why healers are crying, they may be more focused, but they are still qui hard to kill 1 on 1 except for classes with enough interrupt.

 

Maybe the crying healers are those going with PvE gear into PvP? If theyr are light armor character they loose 50% damage reduction compared to PvP geared healers (full rakata versus full battlemaster).

 

What game are you playing ? The simple fact that you're measuring a class strength by saying they are now killable 1v1 (how hard depends on skills) demonstrates you are not a real pvp player, you are a casual duelist.

 

I remember to YOU that sages have "won" 1 more second casting time on the only useful single heal they had so my little chiwawa is now able to put them out of the fight very easily. And if you weren't the duelist you are, you should know that an alive healer healing himself is one less enemy on the ground for the team..

[Achyllis]

You should focus fire on healers so no complaint there. Light sabers should hit hard so no complaint there. Playing with a pug against eight OP force users is not a lot of fun. How about we limit the team makeup?

 

For example in unranked WZs no more than 5 force users on a team. No further need for nerfs just balance the team through queue mechanics.

[Amien]

You should focus fire on healers so no complaint there. Light sabers should hit hard so no complaint there. Playing with a pug against eight OP force users is not a lot of fun. How about we limit the team makeup?

 

For example in unranked WZs no more than 5 force users on a team. No further need for nerfs just balance the team through queue mechanics.

 

Force users aren't stronger than non0force users.... This isn't SWG.

[Achyllis]

Force users aren't stronger than non0force users.... This isn't SWG.

 

While I cannot document my original assertion with parsing, anecdotal evidence from WZs shows your comment is absurd.

 

You really don't think Assassins and Marauders and their mirrors are ridiculously OP in PvP?

Edited April 22, 2012 by Achyllis

[Easpeak]

According to the people in this forum - one dps on a healer should never be able to kill him. That's usually what happens in WoW - you can't really kill a pvp geared healer alone, unless you manage to run him out of mana.

 

Well - there are 2 differences between WoW and this:

1. Resources here are much harder to run out of. True it's been balanced a bit in 1.2 but still nowhere near where it is in WoW.

2. WoW didn't have guard! Seriously - if one DPS can't put enough pressure and hopefully kill one solo healer (good healers, especially Operative healers, are still very hard to kill) - what will DPS do against guarded healers?

 

Currently healers with guard are extremely difficult to kill, I've seen 3 and 4 dps hammering down on one guarded healer and not managing to dps him down - if a good, tank specced and geared player is guarding them, between all the taunts and CC, and healer taking 50% less damage - it takes a tremendous effort to kill them.

 

As long as guard is in the game, healer survivability should be balanced around that - otherwise, they'll be gods when guarded - and they will be guarded 100% of the time in ranked pvp. in actuality i feel a tank-healer combo is too durable even at the moment, but the time for that discussion will come when real ranked pvp arrives.

 

What are you smoking?

[johnyangelo]

I died 16x on voidstar yesterday and I'm consider as a Immortal trooper healer by this topic with limitless mana (ammo).

[signahead]

According to the people in this forum - one dps on a healer should never be able to kill him. That's usually what happens in WoW - you can't really kill a pvp geared healer alone, unless you manage to run him out of mana.

 

Well - there are 2 differences between WoW and this:

1. Resources here are much harder to run out of. True it's been balanced a bit in 1.2 but still nowhere near where it is in WoW.

2. WoW didn't have guard! Seriously - if one DPS can't put enough pressure and hopefully kill one solo healer (good healers, especially Operative healers, are still very hard to kill) - what will DPS do against guarded healers?

 

Currently healers with guard are extremely difficult to kill, I've seen 3 and 4 dps hammering down on one guarded healer and not managing to dps him down - if a good, tank specced and geared player is guarding them, between all the taunts and CC, and healer taking 50% less damage - it takes a tremendous effort to kill them.

 

As long as guard is in the game, healer survivability should be balanced around that - otherwise, they'll be gods when guarded - and they will be guarded 100% of the time in ranked pvp. in actuality i feel a tank-healer combo is too durable even at the moment, but the time for that discussion will come when real ranked pvp arrives.

 

Who exactly are "the people" on this forum? We have hundreds of posters with a wide range of viewpoints. Heck, we have individual people who can't agree with themselves on some topics.

 

Sure there are people who believe that healers should survive indefinitely in 1v1, but there are plenty of people who don't. I know you feel aggrieved, but you aren't an oppressed minority or a daring iconoclast with the courage to stand up against overwhelming opposition. Pretending you are sounds petulant and self-important, and it ignores all of the people who actually agree with what you're saying.

[gwrtheyn]

-avg healer has more overall heal, than a dps has overall dmg(warzone)

-respawn rates very high(so healers are faster back than you can kill em)(think of DAoC where a respawn could take up to 20min to be back @ the keep)

-guard doubles the ttk of a healer,taunts stack to it(30% less dmg)

-trauma is there only to offset pve -> pvp

-dmg can be clensed,CDed,avoided sometimes even shielded,nothing vs heal like this

 

i would say healers are ok the way they are

-give some dds skills to remove hots etc

-sniper heal debuff 2(mara and sniper heal debuff 50%)

-guard reduces the healing/shielding of the guarded target too,so always guard the heal is not the best way

Edited April 22, 2012 by gwrtheyn

[DweezillKagemand]

1 DPS should never be able to kill a healer - a healer should be able to effectively tank that 1 DPS and still heal his team.

 

ATM, when you have a DPS on you - it makes it exceptionally hard to heal, harder than it should be. And due to the tiny amount of effective healing skills a healer is offered, interrupts play a bigger role. In this game, healers have 1 main heal - the heal they spam and you mainly use the other heals only when needed - such as AOE heals or to proc an additive effect on the main heal. E.g. Rapid Scan/Medical Probe, Deliverance/Dark Infusion and Kolto Injection and Underworld medicine. In other games, you could just turn to other heals - you had more than 1 casted heal that featured an effective resource:healing.

 

Therefore, healers in this game - due to having a smaller toolbox than healers in most other MMOs, should be given higher survivability.

 

For example, in Rift nearly my entire toolbar was fulled with heals, here you have like 4 healing spells at max.

 

Inb4 fanboys come with the you can't compare rubbish.

[Drudenfusz]

As a pvp Vanguard, I am VERY reluctant to put guard on healers now. The healer will still die under focused fire and I wind up half-dead because he's too busy trying to keep himself alive to keep me topped off. I'm almost better off NOT guarding the healer because at least I'll be at full health when he goes down.

 

Remember, only one tank can guard a healer but there's no limit to the zerg. Once a healer is marked, there's nothing I can do to keep a him alive against 4-5 Marauders that instantly jump him.

But without your guarding the healer will just go more quickly down... Sure, sometimes you will die protecting the healers, but there are more options to reduce damage on the healer than just your guard (I make plenty use of CCs and my other tank abilities).

[hypnosys]

I could care less about WoW. When did people start balancing SWtor play with WoW? Most people here know WoW stunk, was stale, etc and came here to play looking for a change.

 

The game was perfectly balanced for healer/dps prior to 1.2 and is now broken. True statement. If you want a WoW type of balance go back and play WoW please, and leave us SWtor players to play this game as it was tested and released.

 

News flash...people already left!