Marauders your days are numbered and u know it :)

[V-Serp]

What really really baffles me in all of this, besides the absurd level of fail it must take in order to call for constant nerfing to classes instead of learning to play (but I digress), is how 'joyful' people seem to be at both the idea of another class getting nerfed or when a class actually does get nerfed. Is this just the ******e factor rearing it's head again or what?

 

Mara's are not OP. They never were. For that matter Sorc's weren't OP either (broken because of a bug, but that's a different matter) yet people were so happy about them getting nerfed. Tracer spam wasn't OP, just stupid so that's a good fix (really who the hell was happy spamming the same attack for 90% of their combat). Still that's different than being OP. Op's were fine after the surge nerf and such, but people still call for nerfs constantly. Why are people both so bad that they must plead for unwarranted nerfing and so damned happy if and when it happens?

 

Dude I totally agree with you, I loved the balance when everybody has things that are "OPed" because then the game is fun and it actually balances out. I hate this boring style, and right now Maras ARE stronger and while OPed is an extreme word, they are definitely currently the best class in the game. Georg likes the word "overtuned" so that's more apropos here.

 

But it's stupid because if they didn't nerf the **** out of everyone else, especially Sorc/Sage, good players could just balance it out. That's the problem with these nerfs, when you nerf everything and try to keep strong options from everyone, when a little thing slips through that little thing becomes huge and makes it stupid for everyone else.

 

I go even further than you on this, I LOVED Tracer Missile because it was something for me to have to watch out for. The most hilarious matches I've had in the past were opposing team taking mid and Tracer Missiling anybody that walked in all at once. At least it was fast.

 

The only people that whine with everyone having great options are crappy players that can't handle it. Good players can make more of an impact when you give them options, bad players can't take advantage of anything so they think by taking options away they won't lose. They still lose, it just happens in stupider ways and generally takes longer.

 

Current PVP the only fun class for me now is Mara. I can compete with the other ones but it's not really that fun and I think Mara is just better in every way. Since this dev team has shown they have no inclination of actually buffing classes up and instead insist on nerfing everyone, Mara/Sent is just going to get nerfed. I was happy with pre-1.2, I don't understand why instead of small tweaks they decided to make major wholesale changes. It's like this game got a sequel instead of just small tweaks and evolving.

 

Oh well what can you do. I doubt they'll figure it out next patch, if you roll Mara you're fine at least for a few months. The other classes will just bumble around for awhile until Mara gets nerfed too, then everybody can bungle around with 1 viable spec that probably can't burst at all and crappy defensive cooldowns.

[aesirize]

you do realize that assassins have more ranged attacks than melee right? That doesn't seem odd?

 

actually its closer to half. The class seems to be a mix of some melee and ranged. Marauder seems to be pure melee range (4m) with the exception of the finisher move that seems out of place.

although i think it's a bit humorous that everyone always compares the Marauders cool-downs with an Assassin-tank.

 

I'm on neither side of the 'debate.' marauders are an annoyance, with a few exceptions being a fun fight.

 

It is odd how you have so many defensive cool-downs and being a 'pure' dps class

Edited April 22, 2012 by aesirize

[hankart]

Lev 50 valor 68 Lightside Sentinal;

 

Where can I get a shot of the Uber Juice that everyone is drinking here? I feel a little stronger since 1.2, but Uber not. If I was Uber I would never die, I would always kill in the first 3 keystrokes, and I would wear a Crown instead of this dorky BM headgear I had to buy through blood sweat and tears. All the classes have their strengths and weaknesses. I think it should be scary to go toe to toe with a Sent/Mara, but people do it all the time and win. If my CDs aren't ready, if I don't go through my rotation properly, if I'm out of med packs which I don't use very often, I can go down hard just like anybody else. Since 1.2 everyone is dieing quicker. If they're not its because they fighting equaly experienced and geared players and they're banging heads. End Rant

 

P.S. Nerf away, your next LOL

[Xerain]

actually its closer to half. The class seems to be a mix of some melee and ranged. Marauder seems to be pure melee ranged (4m) with the exception of the finisher move that seems out of place.

although i think it's a bit humorous that everyone always compares the Marauders cool-downs with an Assassin-tank.

 

I'm on neither side of the 'debate.' marauders are an annoyance, with a few exceptions being a fun fight. It is odd how you have so many defensive cool-downs and being a 'pure' dps class'

 

Force Scream/Blade storm is 10m and so is the Heal Debuff throw. That's 3 things

 

And you're comparing them so it's a bit humorous you'd say that.

 

 

Pretty much a lot of sent/maras, they're just annoying but you can shrug them off pretty easily. IT's sad that most the people that play the class are just straight bad.

 

It could be worse. marauders could have heavy armor, more gap closers and be dual wielding two 2handed swords that have stupid procs on them.

[nschlan]

Mara/Sent was never uber buffed. We had 2 specs fixed in 1.2 so that they were viable and had a few utility changes (some of which were nerfs). 95% of Sents are still awful and don't do **** in WZs. Only difference in 1.2 is everything else has been nerfed so hard that it feels like they buffed us to god mode. Maybe BW should STOP nerfing **** and start bringing classes back up to a good level.

[aesirize]

Force Scream/Blade storm is 10m and so is the Heal Debuff throw. That's 3 things

 

And you're comparing them so it's a bit humorous you'd say that.

 

 

Pretty much a lot of sent/maras, they're just annoying but you can shrug them off pretty easily. IT's sad that most the people that play the class are just straight bad.

 

It could be worse. marauders could have heavy armor, more gap closers and be dual wielding two 2handed swords that have stupid procs on them.

 

i stand corrected.

 

i merely made the comparison because you initiated the comparison to Assassin-tanks, i was more or less falling in line.

 

while i do not think the marauder is Overpowered, i do think they need some tweaks as their defensive cool-downs are a bit over the top for being a DPS class/spec.

 

just my 2 cents.

Edited April 22, 2012 by aesirize

[hankart]

Mara/Sent was never uber buffed. We had 2 specs fixed in 1.2 so that they were viable and had a few utility changes (some of which were nerfs). 95% of Sents are still awful and don't do **** in WZs. Only difference in 1.2 is everything else has been nerfed so hard that it feels like they buffed us to god mode. Maybe BW should STOP nerfing **** and start bringing classes back up to a good level.

 

But everyone is crying, nerf, nerf, nerf! But then again I see alot of crying about alot of things because the game needs to be perfected for their personal war! Oh yeah they win! Wait am I one of us or them? I need to look into this!

[nschlan]

But everyone is crying, nerf, nerf, nerf! But then again I see alot of crying about alot of things because the game needs to be perfected for their personal war! Oh yeah they win! Wait am I one of us or them? I need to look into this!

 

Really, class balance was alright before 1.2. Some things needed tweaking, but other than that it was well balanced...but alas, Bioware gave into the terribads.

[ZDProletariat]

The advantage of a ranged class is that they are capable of doing damage in a 30-35m radius improving their chances of doing more damage at the end of a WZ. So why is it that Sentinels can do more damage on average than a ranged? Don't pretend that they don't. They are melee yet can do as much damage at the end as a ranged.

[nschlan]

The advantage of a ranged class is that they are capable of doing damage in a 30-35m radius improving their chances of doing more damage at the end of a WZ. So why is it that Sentinels can do more damage on average than a ranged? Don't pretend that they don't. They are melee yet can do as much damage at the end as a ranged.

 

Because 90% of the players in this game suck? Because people don't know how to kite? Because if you fight on nodes and doors and such you greatly increase your uptime on the ranged as they can't move to that max range?

[Zbus]

Here is the simple reason heavy armor tank classes are complaining about mara damage mitigation skills

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/

 

real simple really if you remove the heavy armor from the equation due to its limit of white damage mitigation only and factor in the fact that yellow damge is 95% of the damage done in pvp all your left with is defensive cooldowns that mitigate damage. Now take a look at the Mara/Sent class and thier metric arse load of defensive CD's pretty clear problem if you ask me.

 

Ask most tanks why they dont wear the pvp tank gear provided for them in the game and you will get the answer from that link in one version or anouther. I dont want Mara's damage output touched but those Defensive Cool downs need to be made inactive for pvp that way the pve side does not suffer. And before you say that no other class has inactive skills in pvp go check gun slingers head shot its thier but cant be used in pvp so it is posible.

[nschlan]

Here is the simple reason heavy armor tank classes are complaining about mara damage mitigation skills

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/

 

real simple really if you remove the heavy armor from the equation due to its limit of white damage mitigation only and factor in the fact that yellow damge is 95% of the damage done in pvp all your left with is defensive cooldowns that mitigate damage. Now take a look at the Mara/Sent class and thier metric arse load of defensive CD's pretty clear problem if you ask me.

 

Ask most tanks why they dont wear the pvp tank gear provided for them in the game and you will get the answer from that link in one version or anouther. I dont want Mara's damage output touched but those Defensive Cool downs need to be made inactive for pvp that way the pve side does not suffer. And before you say that no other class has inactive skills in pvp go check gun slingers head shot its thier but cant be used in pvp so it is posible.

 

We do have skills that are inactive in PvP. Sorry bro. Also, why should our defensive CDs be REMOVED? We have ONE defensive CD (out of 3) that we don't share with Guardians.

 

Go do some homework on the class, then try to make an argument.

Edited April 22, 2012 by nschlan

[Taerrik]

I'd be fine with ravage/master strike being so strong if it were interuptable

 

while were at it, make all sniper skills interuptable in cover also, also flamethrower (I play a Adv Proto PT atm)

 

Things that are uninteruptable take skill away from the game

[Draqsko]

um you realize your quoting an Assassin's finisher move, which is melee only. Yours is 10m range. a melee with a short ranged finisher doesnt seem odd?

 

Assassinate

 

or the fact that a marauders defensive cooldowns are on par, for the most part, with a tanks cooldowns?

 

HOLY CRAP.. if you want I'll trade you dispatch for that since you think it's all that great, you can have the 10 m range. I'll take a skill I can proc a 5k crit on reliably..

 

Dispatch

 

Compare, where my top end damage ends, your bottom end damage begins.. So hey if you want to trade range for a guaranteed kill, I'll do it.

 

I just realized something, OMG TANKSINS ARE OP'D, NERF TANKSINS!!QQQQ!!!!

[Zbus]

We do have skills that are inactive in PvP. Sorry bro. Also, why should our defensive CDs be REMOVED? We have ONE defensive CD (out of 3) that we don't share with Guardians.

 

Go do some homework on the class, then try to make an argument.

 

Oh im sorry I forgot vanguards and mercs are not tanks. Dont assume every argument is based around guardian and jugg tanks. But you might have gotten that had you read the link which is from the vanguard page and makes no mention of jugs or guardians /shrug

 

Simple answer for you if armor which effects squat except white damage which is proved by the simple fact tanks are wearing dps gear instead of pvp tank gear then that leaves defense based around skills that mitigate damage. As the number one DPS class in game you should not have 1.- more defensive CD's than a tank class and 2.- they should never exceed those of a tank class that 99% damage shield is a prime example. Again I have no problem with the damage just the damage mitigation skills.

[aesirize]

HOLY CRAP.. if you want I'll trade you dispatch for that since you think it's all that great, you can have the 10 m range. I'll take a skill I can proc a 5k crit on reliably..

 

Dispatch

 

Compare, where my top end damage ends, your bottom end damage begins.. So hey if you want to trade range for a guaranteed kill, I'll do it.

 

I just realized something, OMG TANKSINS ARE OP'D, NERF TANKSINS!!QQQQ!!!!

 

wow, take a break, calm down. and take a seat. i'm neither Marauder nor Assassin and never claimed to be either. someone already quoted me and corrected my mistake. Get over it.

[Phamish]

I'd be fine with ravage/master strike being so strong if it were interuptable

 

while were at it, make all sniper skills interuptable in cover also, also flamethrower (I play a Adv Proto PT atm)

 

Things that are uninteruptable take skill away from the game

 

Master Strike is actually interruptable with knockback or stun; unfortunately 95% of the playerbase doesn't seem to realise that. As a valor 72 sentinel, I've lost count of the amount of times that I've seen players BACKPEDAL away whilst I'm doing a masterstrike. Or watching a sorc continue to channel lightning rather than knockback/force speed away during a masterstrike. Or the Bounty Hunter that continues to spam tracer missile whilst eating masterstrike... seriously if I'm up against a marauder/sent/jugg/guardian, and I see that THREE SECOND CHANNEL coming, its either 1. STUN or 2. RUN AWAY. People seem to forget that activating masterstrike is essentially a 3 second root for the sent/marauder, and it's pretty easy to get away (the actual hit range is not all that great).

 

Also, defensive cooldowns are exactly that... COOLDOWNS. I don't understand why people continue to attack me when there are far squishier targets available around me whilst my CDs are up. Even if I'm the only target in the area, it'd still be far better to stun/root/kite me until my cds are down and then re-engage - sentinels are like tissue paper without our CDs. That's what I do if I end up in a 1v1 against a class with defensive CDs. The only reason to attack a target when CDs are up is if 1. They're capturing an important objective 2. Ball carrier 3. If you have no ability to get away. If the first two reasons are true, they won't be attacking you anyways which makes the point moot.

 

Unfortunately, like many other posters mentioned before, the majority of the playerbase is terrible and rather than learn to play their class and utilise their strengths, they run around complaining that <insert class> needs a nerf because I lost to them in a 1v1. Or they see a class with a high dmg score in a warzone and DAMN THAT CLASS NEEDS A NERF. PVP is about winning the warzone ie. controlling/winning objectives. 1v1s are irrelevant - I've lost count of the number of dps players I've seen forget to defend nodes/objectives after engaging in some "tunnel vision 1v1 duel" leading to a team loss - hell give me a displacement move (knockback/push/pull etc) and I'd happily give up some of my dps and defensive abilities; I'd take winning a WZ in 3 min and having 50k dmg rather than doing 300k+ and losing, but it seems the majority of players don't seem to think that way - it's all about the e-peen scoreboard numbers.

 

/Rant over

 

PS: Just to reinforce my point, an analogy on my tankasin is watching people pump force abilities into me whilst my force immunity is up and wondering why they end the fight on 0% and I'm on 80%... bad players are just bad.

[RoyFokker]

The class is going to be nerfed hard, deal with it. I bet you were one of the people claiming Sorc is OP and making the same arguments against them that you're making now in defense of Mara, except Sorc was never this bad.

 

It's kind of funny to watch the same Maras that whined about Sorc turn around and swear Maras are fine but Sorc is OP.

 

Sorc was op for chain casting lightning and being able to heal ridiculously when they weren't deep into the heal tree. That got balanced. I killed Sent/Mara before the patch, I do so now. Once again: L2P.

 

So you can't sneak up and ninja a node with it, an ability that is not needed..

 

It is needed, it allows you to break target momentarily which gives us a shot to reposition when getting surprised or needing to evade long enough to put some distance.

 

Yes the strongest dps, most utilized and i'll give you second on surviability behind a assassin, should get an ability help reset the fight in their favor.

 

So what you're saying is that they do have self heals, and most will out heal an assassin in prolonged fights.

 

No they won't, Anni/Watch will never out-heal an Assassin.

 

As stated ive never played an assassin, besides 3% healing on their lighting spam they must get another super heal that ive never noticed. So if i'm wrong on that point, i apolgize and recant,

 

And I know quite a few huttball carriers that would take jump over pull, you may no pull into fire but you sure can jump and stun people crossing pits.

 

You mean when they leap and then get pushed back unable to do anything to get back to where they were or keep their target from getting out of range?

Guy steps on fire pad, you jump, he's rooted, you choke he dies in a firey agony. It's not like you couldn't also hit your invicibility and stand in the fire for 5 secs while watching him burn.

 

Melee means melee. Unless you need a insta gib ability.

 

A melee character, throwing a melee weapon. Imagine that.

 

Yes a melee who can take 25% of a clothies health out with a ranged attack is cool. Just make sure to give mercs the same treatment on rocket punch. Of course rocket punch hits for half of what that does and has a longer cooldown.

 

I should have mentioned it for when someone is about to kill a mara, and the mara doesnt want to die, my bad.

 

Building stacks is pretty quick, sure its not instant, but when you need to move or group to move to defend a node, no other class can do it better.

 

Unless you have it talented up, it takes much longer than you think.

Thankfully they gave you another get out of jail free card and you have a 3ish min cooldown too do just that.

 

You will usually wait until the second rotation of dots are rolling and then group heal it up. Its not very hard building a stack of 30 when your demolishing peeps.

 

The heals are still meh, they buy you a couple seconds.

They are meh, but i have seen maras with the 75k healing medal since 1.2

 

 

Nope I'm assuming your ann spec, because rage is a gimmich and carnage is ok. I totally forgot about a 30% healing debuff. Thanks for the post.

Rage/Focus is a gimmick how? It takes planning and timing to be useful. If you're just wanting to spam useless damage on a target it's easy, but otherwise you have to work for it. Carnage/Combat has possibilities, but I haven't tried it since beta. Crippling Throw is a 20% debuff.

 

I agree spamming damage on 1 target is easy. But useless damage comes from a class that hits 5k smashes and then kinda waits for his next jump to come off cooldown. Wheres as Ann will take a sorc or bh healer down in about 8 secs.

 

 

Back to my original point, not trying to say sentinal/mara are better than tankasins. I'm saying both are too good in utility/damage/survivability.

 

Ugh, learn to quote.

1) Why shouldn't they get 4 seconds of target loss and repositioning? It's never stopped me from killing one I wanted dead, and it's nothing compared to classes that constantly fade out of a fight for extended periods. It buys you a breather.

 

2) Except for if it's the ball carrier, the chance of him not having a full resolve bar for your Stasis/Choke to actually stop him are virtually nil. The park from a leap is very short even after pointing it up. You better be dead on with your timing and hope someone follows it up with another snare or they're walking out of that fire. If they're a push class, good luck getting repositioned before you get knocked flying. It better be on cooldown.

 

3) So light armor wearers that are geared have 12k hp at best? News to me. It low balls more often than you think.

 

4) 3 minute cooldown unless you spec it and you have to be in close proximity for it to affect anything other than yourself and even then it's not guaranteed. Untalented, you have to use 15 force spenders to get a full stack. It's not forever nor is it a constant on ability.

 

5) 75k in healing as a Watch/Anni spec is for a full 15 minute match. Most dots do more damage per tick than that heal does and you also need to realize that those heals come from him healing everyone nearby when Zen/Beserk is rolling.

 

6) Actually, Focus/Rage is a much better healer killer than Watch/Anni if done right and can burn down healers in less than 8 seconds. It's all dependent on what is going on, if anyone interrupts or stuns, positioning. If a Focus/Rage gets a clear run at a light armor wearer, things can be over quickly. FYI, Focus/Rage has other abilities than it's Leaps/Charges and Sweep/Smash and I'm not talking about Master Strike/Ravage.

 

Only bads ever thought maras/sents were gimp. They've always been the "secret" in the hands of a good player. Now with all the buffs, even the bads can go on killing sprees with them. My baby marauder is already winning 2v1s easily.

 

You're playing against idiots then.

[Xerain]

Here is the simple reason heavy armor tank classes are complaining about mara damage mitigation skills

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/

 

real simple really if you remove the heavy armor from the equation due to its limit of white damage mitigation only and factor in the fact that yellow damge is 95% of the damage done in pvp all your left with is defensive cooldowns that mitigate damage. Now take a look at the Mara/Sent class and thier metric arse load of defensive CD's pretty clear problem if you ask me.

 

Ask most tanks why they dont wear the pvp tank gear provided for them in the game and you will get the answer from that link in one version or anouther. I dont want Mara's damage output touched but those Defensive Cool downs need to be made inactive for pvp that way the pve side does not suffer. And before you say that no other class has inactive skills in pvp go check gun slingers head shot its thier but cant be used in pvp so it is posible.

 

You do realize both those cool downs are for pvp right?

[me_unknown]

Lev 50 valor 68 Lightside Sentinal;

 

Where can I get a shot of the Uber Juice that everyone is drinking here? I feel a little stronger since 1.2, but Uber not. If I was Uber I would never die,

 

this logic failes. no one claimed your class is so uber that you can win 1vs 8. so you are supposed to day even being uber.

 

p.s. again, this is not to be understood as including my opinion on the matter of overpowered or not. i just hate absurd "arguments" and failed logic.

[Pantallika]

Anyone posting this in defense of Warrior or Jedi Knight classes obviously play one. Bioware has a testing team, lets see how long its takes them to realize they're mistake.

[RoyFokker]

Anyone posting this in defense of Warrior or Jedi Knight classes obviously play one. Bioware has a testing team, lets see how long its takes them to realize they're mistake.

 

It wasn't a mistake.

[Xerain]

Anyone posting this in defense of Warrior or Jedi Knight classes obviously play one. Bioware has a testing team, lets see how long its takes them to realize they're mistake.

 

with our survivability drop comes a damage drop.

[Niil]

It wasn't a mistake.

 

That's a subjective assessment. Healers thought they were fine pre-patch too.

[CaptainInsano]

I find Assassins better than Marauders but people will probably say I'm biased. Darkness Assassins certainly kick the crap out of any class 1v1 and nobody has yet to convince me that doesn't translate into a WZ match with all the utility they bring (stealth, pull, speed, knockback, guard, taunt, basically every form of utility in the game). But if the community demands that Marauders are next up on the chopping block, so be it. I'm sure Assassins won't be far behind. The only thing is I haven't seen anyone convincingly state what specifically is OP about Marauders and what should be nerfed to make them balanced (i.e. not worthless). People talk about all these magical defensive cooldowns but there are 3. 1 is shared by the Warrior class on a 3 minute cooldown, and mirrored by the Assassin class. One is on a 1 minute cooldown and essentially gives heavy armor to the Marauder if he's attacked. The other is 5 seconds of damage immunity for 50% of health. The Marauder can still be CC'd for the duration. Keep in mind this is a medium armor melee class without real stealth and no way to absorb damage from teammates like the Assassin/Juggernaut. Also, it doesn't do any more damage than the other DPS specced classes. Please state how this class is imbalanced compared to the other melee classes, keeping in mind all of their abilities. Edited April 22, 2012 by CaptainInsano