1.2.0c Demolition Round Stealth nerv?

[Harridan]

Saw this on the DevTracker from Georg Zoeller:

 

"(b) In response to your feedback, we've re-tested all classes to ensure they are falling within our desired DPS targets and found one issue with Demo Round / Heatseeker Missile which was getting increased DPS, not just from other people's stacks but also from an unwanted interaction with other skills. That issue was corrected in the 1.2.0c patch this week."

 

So, looks like working as intended after 1.2c

[ArchangelLBC]

God if I didn't enjoy doing raids with my guild so much I would unsub now. This is getting just flat out retarded. Guess all I can do is keep doing my best and hope that BW eventually gets back to fixing us.

 

This is what happens when you introduce a bunch of changes at once BW.

 

 

To the other poster talking about someone getting up to 1800 DPS in raids. Link please?

[Aaoogaa]

There was an adjustment to the patch notes. Demo round was always giving a +50% buff to damage rather than a +25% buff. So they fixed it...without retesting overall viability of the class. So the numbers they based all their metrics on were skewed to be overinflated so 1.2 revamp being based on them was a nerf and now they are fixing the buffs that should have been fixed previous to 1.2. Ala a double whammy to an already struggling class.

[ArchangelLBC]

Like I said, that's what happens when you do a bunch of changes at once. If it had been a true rebalance they should have just fixed the tooltip. Nice to know they're incompetent as WELL as catering to the whiners.

 

Oh well, every day it becomes easier to roleplay as a stormtrooper.

[Hxxr]

Saw this on the DevTracker from Georg Zoeller:

 

"(b) In response to your feedback, we've re-tested all classes to ensure they are falling within our desired DPS targets and found one issue with Demo Round / Heatseeker Missile which was getting increased DPS, not just from other people's stacks but also from an unwanted interaction with other skills. That issue was corrected in the 1.2.0c patch this week."

 

So, looks like working as intended after 1.2c

 

Guess it's time to level some Marauders then. :>

[Kailmanson]

I scanned through some of your posts and noticed mentioning of your min / max dps of Demo Round. I am wondering if maybe you are doing something wrong. Naturally if you hit Demo Round everytime it is up and on targets that have no "grav round vortex" debuffs it wont do anything.

 

Pre 1.2 I was able to get Demo Round to hit for 4700 at the very max. That was my highest hit. Average hit was 3500-3800. The only time I would hit for around 2k was when I just wanted to finish someone off and not care about the high hit

 

After 1.2c I my highest hit is 4200. Every match I get at the least 2-3 4k hits. Average hit is 2800-3k even.

 

So not only did they nerf Grav Round by 10% when calculated out over crits and surge is about a 500-1k hit but they also nerfd Demo Round even though they said they were increasing the dmg by 10%

[Gyronamics]

To the other poster talking about someone getting up to 1800 DPS in raids. Link please?

 

This thread:

 

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1117292-Arsenal-Bounty-Hunter-Are-YOU-Doing-It-Right/page2

 

This screenshot:

 

http://i.imgur.com/yzfYO.png?1

 

That was what was possible before the stacking was removed.

[JustTray]

Tracer debuff is what is not working.

[Meshimashi]

Just started out as Commando from playing a powertech (i'm lvl 34) I'm playin' Gunnery at the moment and I don't really see the issue. Perhaps it's because I didnt see how Commandos were before 1.2 but our damage output is still pretty good, using "Full Auto" with 4-5 vortex up is heavy hitting! Although the survivability is kinda *****, no way to escape and the cast time and CD on the fast and slow healing probes are just not keeping me alive. About Demo and Grav round I don't understand why bioware decided to nerf them, I had no problems killing commandos before the 1.2patch and why didnt snipers/gunslingers get a smiliar nerf as commandos they even hit harder and have better survivability...

 

As a new Commando I'd like to see demo round hit for 6-7k critical and give us some damn chance to survive a melee Sith/Jedi. Demo Round should atleast hit harder than Juggernauts/Guardians highend abilities, isnt ranged supose to be able to compete with a melee at all or what's up?

[sensiblepoast]

our damage output is still pretty good, using "Full Auto" with 4-5 vortex up is heavy hitting! Although the survivability is kinda *****, no way to escape and the cast time and CD on the fast and slow healing probes are just not keeping me alive.

 

Come back to this post when you hit 50 and see how good your damage looks like. Play a gunslinger and see how good your commando damage looks like. Play a sage and see how good your commando damage looks like.

[rsomazzi]

Saw this on the DevTracker from Georg Zoeller:

 

"(b) In response to your feedback, we've re-tested all classes to ensure they are falling within our desired DPS targets and found one issue with Demo Round / Heatseeker Missile which was getting increased DPS, not just from other people's stacks but also from an unwanted interaction with other skills. That issue was corrected in the 1.2.0c patch this week."

 

So, looks like working as intended after 1.2c

 

Working as intended, except the part where they intentionally neglect putting their BS nerf into the patch notes. I've been watching my Demo Rounds hit for **** compared to before. I am lucky to see 3k. VR 80, 2 pc WH, rest BM.

 

I am done with this game. Riding the free month and cancelling. Not going to put up with BW's brain damage. They screwed with the class that needed the help while bumping up classes that were already strong. I am sick of WZs being tanks and healers and zero fun. What's all the work and time invested in WH and good gear when all Commandos are getting is kicked over and over?

 

Not putting their garbage changes in the patch notes was the last straw. I'm done.

[MasterRodimus]

Working as intended, except the part where they intentionally neglect putting their BS nerf into the patch notes. I've been watching my Demo Rounds hit for **** compared to before. I am lucky to see 3k. VR 80, 2 pc WH, rest BM.

 

I am done with this game. Riding the free month and cancelling. Not going to put up with BW's brain damage. They screwed with the class that needed the help while bumping up classes that were already strong. I am sick of WZs being tanks and healers and zero fun. What's all the work and time invested in WH and good gear when all Commandos are getting is kicked over and over?

 

Not putting their garbage changes in the patch notes was the last straw. I'm done.

 

Another bites the dust, you can't even re-learn to play your class, maybe try another spec or go augmented gear or have full war hero PVP gear. Ill be honest with you Gunnery pre1.2 was easy mode to play just spam spam Grav Rounds then Demo Round. Honestly I play assault spec and I have a funner time playing commmando and I still get high dps as I did pre 1.2 in a full length warzone.

So please dont re-roll just re-learn your roll and class.

[rsomazzi]

So please dont re-roll just re-learn your roll and class.

 

I'll wait here for a vid from you where you decimate all the other classes 1v1 or otherwise with your Assault Commando. And don't film the ones in Recruit, I'd like to see equal gear. What better way for me to "re-learn my role" than to watch an expert like you?

 

Let me know when you post it, I'll definitely watch it.

 

thanks!

[jedip_enguin]

They told us Demo round would get a 10% buff (Yay!)

 

Then 2 bugs that were the only reason the skill did decent dmg to start with got fixed (Boo!!)

 

Net result a noticeable nerf, well played sirs

 

And as a nice side effect, all the whiners can complain that DR is still OP and didn't need buffed, oh the hilarity

[Yurie]

No, what happened is more like:

 

People whined about commando's grav round, cried like babies on the forums, and bam... We lose a good 20% sustained dmg output; however, if people were stupid enough to let us ramp up or dmg, we could burst them pretty hard.

 

Well, apparantly people are pretty darn stupid, cause they let us get through a full PVE rotation in PVP then complain when we bust them down. It was pretty evident on the forums, people immediately complaining about HSM or Demo Round..

 

So they cut our burst dmg..

 

Why? Forum whiners who suck at pvp, that's why, no other reason.

 

This, this is what happened. They nerfed us based on wrong data (with bugged grav vortexes) and after that they fixed the bugs and now we cant kill anything. Yes we were 1 of the best dps classes before but and a very big but is that most of the time we need to stand still to shoot and most of our talents are interuttable. That compined to the lack of defensive CD's (yay 25% shield) made us easy targets in PvP. Now we still are easy targets and we cant even do damage.

 

I have now unsubbed and with the free 30 days gametime they have 2 months to come up with some fixes that will make my main class viable in PvP again otherwise I will be saying goodbye to you all, wich is a shame.

[Sotaudi]

This would be because there is a talent which grants TWO stacks of heatsigs/grav vortex per tracer or grav round shot... that wasnt/isnt a bug...

 

You are referring the fact that Grav Round can apply two Gravity Vortexes per shot when so spec'd. He was not talking about how the stacks are accumulated. I cannot attest to his premise, but, instead, he is saying that the buff to Demo round (+5% damage per Gravity Vortex) was being counted twice for your stacks. That is, he is saying that instead of being buffed 25% by your 5 stacks of Gravity Vortexes, it was being buffed 50% by counting the stack twice.

[MasterRodimus]

I'll wait here for a vid from you where you decimate all the other classes 1v1 or otherwise with your Assault Commando. And don't film the ones in Recruit, I'd like to see equal gear. What better way for me to "re-learn my role" than to watch an expert like you?

 

Let me know when you post it, I'll definitely watch it.

 

thanks!

 

Listen, Commandos are not great 1v1 I never said that. Im not an elite player either. Im a good team player.

I would say I won about 65% of my warzone matches due to team play not because I can kill this guy once 1v1.

Be honest, I would always take a warzone win over saying I have uber high dps vote for me, stuff like that.

More Comms faster I be gettiing my war hero gear. =D

Some of you guys think small and not the big picture.

Lastly, I'm not going to be filming stuff, but I do have screenshots of 600 vs 0 in Aldareen WZ win twice, if that helps you any.

[rsomazzi]

Listen, Commandos are not great 1v1 I never said that. Im not an elite player either. Im a good team player.

I would say I won about 65% of my warzone matches due to team play not because I can kill this guy once 1v1.

Be honest, I would always take a warzone win over saying I have uber high dps vote for me, stuff like that.

More Comms faster I be gettiing my war hero gear. =D

Some of you guys think small and not the big picture.

Lastly, I'm not going to be filming stuff, but I do have screenshots of 600 vs 0 in Aldareen WZ win twice, if that helps you any.

 

I'll settle for a handful of screenshots (not cherry picked by you, but the next actual 5 or so matches no matter how well you did) between you and a Marauder or Jugg with similar gear. Nothing fixed or rigged, just your average fight with things being as equal as possible. Remember my problem is not with team play, you're not getting my point. The problem is class balance between individuals. Not gear, the class itself. With 1.2, BW relegated my Medic spec to 2nd or 3rd class citizen over the heal spec'd Sage. Why? I understand the nerf because in PvP it was way OP to get a healer down, but what about PvE? You don't have knock the class down in PvE to make it fit into PvP, they've already shown abilities that are PvE only, so why the changes? Second, Commandos are dps focused, with obvious weaknesses in damage mitigation, interrupts, and overall longevity. When BW keeps gouging your main role, what is left? What happens to balance when they take an already strong melee class and make them even stronger? What sense does that make?

 

When I fight a class 1v1 or even in a team setting, I'd like some weaknesses to exploit, since my own class has some pretty glaring ones. I exploit his weaknesses, he exploits mine. It comes down to a close fight, and the loser tries again. That's the basic expectation anyone would have. Anyone getting rolled is due to 1. lack of skill 2. lack of gear 3. lack of balance. When my class lacks any real breaks, explain to me, given how long and numerous the stuns melee classes have, how am I supposed to perform my class's primary role (dps)? Hmm? I use Tenacity, then promptly get put into another stun. I knock him back, he leaps back. I freeze him, he breaks. Rarely have I been in any fight with a melee where they are not in my face, and I've expended ALL abilities to the contrary. Tenacity, Concussion Charge, Cryo grenade, Concussion Round. Whether its leap or ranged saber throws, they get all the tools in the chest. When just damage mitigation isn't enough, BW hands them a DPS silvered spoon on a platter so not only can they magically mitigate damage, but they deal it in amounts greater than my own. Please explain to me how that is balance. Please show me some shots or vids that show what you specifically do when facing melee to decimate them, and from there, I'll have a better idea what to do myself. Because I've run the gamut of my Commando's abilities and I've yet to find a viable way.

[Fight]

Listen, Commandos are not great 1v1 I never said that. Im not an elite player either. Im a good team player.

I would say I won about 65% of my warzone matches due to team play not because I can kill this guy once 1v1.

Be honest, I would always take a warzone win over saying I have uber high dps vote for me, stuff like that.

More Comms faster I be gettiing my war hero gear. =D

Some of you guys think small and not the big picture.

Lastly, I'm not going to be filming stuff, but I do have screenshots of 600 vs 0 in Aldareen WZ win twice, if that helps you any.

 

The issue here is not whether you are viable in a team, the issue is how viable you are versus another class. Why are you taking up a spot of a player who can decimate others while still protecting points/capping doors/less deaths/more kills/more damage/more healing and so on...

 

Our class is broken, naive people here "accepting" all the nerfs while saying thank you Bioware are the real issue. We are bad, we need to speak up or re-roll to be viable again.

[rsomazzi]

The issue here is not whether you are viable in a team, the issue is how viable you are versus another class. Why are you taking up a spot of a player who can decimate others while still protecting points/capping doors/less deaths/more kills/more damage/more healing and so on...

 

Our class is broken, naive people here "accepting" all the nerfs while saying thank you Bioware are the real issue. We are bad, we need to speak up or re-roll to be viable again.

 

I have to agree, without going into details. The one thing I know, above all the numbers and parsing of combat logs, is that my Commando, my only character I have consistently played since early release and now VR 80, is no longer fun to play. And I am not willing to roll a FOTM class to compensate, not going to happen. I invested sweat and time into my Commando and instead of it paying off in added fun, BW decides to gouge my damage once again while neglecting to put the changes in the 1.0.2c patch notes. I won't tolerate that, so it's time to cancel. No worries, though, there are alternatives, and SWTOR is just another MMO.

[Songwhistle]

for the peeps playing gunnery - its useless for denova HM. On the first boss max dps 769 with mox and raid sync'ed.

 

they literally nerfed my dps output by roughly 400 dps since the day 1.2 came out. I was told either do 1k dps or re-roll to another class since we have buff from vanguard. So we now got melee debuffing boss and i am no longer useful.

 

so now im healing which im just getting used to however the word was in short - commandos are useless in HM.

 

So in the long run im prolly just closing subscription because i want a mmo i can actually do OPS in and actually be viable.

[ZHRGG]

for the peeps playing gunnery - its useless for denova HM. On the first boss max dps 769 with mox and raid sync'ed.

 

they literally nerfed my dps output by roughly 400 dps since the day 1.2 came out. I was told either do 1k dps or re-roll to another class since we have buff from vanguard. So we now got melee debuffing boss and i am no longer useful.

 

so now im healing which im just getting used to however the word was in short - commandos are useless in HM.

 

So in the long run im prolly just closing subscription because i want a mmo i can actually do OPS in and actually be viable.

 

Have you considered the possibility (just a possibility) that you're... terrible at Gunnery?

 

Log from Monday night:

http://www.torparse.com/a/16843?q=MXwxNjg0M3gxMjc0NDk5ODRhMTI3NDUxMDgyeDE=

 

1157-ish DPS, dealt about maybe 23% of total damage. I'm not exactly the star player in my team, since I have to raid lead and call out commands on TS. My rotation is far from perfect since I'm constantly distracted. Sure, I was still doing ~1700 DPS on the Tatooine world boss after 1.2 and now seldom break 1200 DPS while raid leading, but player skill and environmental awareness goes a LONG way to keeping your damage up. If you're "useless" to your team, maybe it's because you weren't a very good DPS in the first place.

Edited April 25, 2012 by ZHRGG

[MasterRodimus]

I had to run several story mode Denova to get black hole comms to get black hole gear.

That was inorder to get better gear to incease my DPS in hard mode.

Yes the first boss is very DPS intensive in HARD MODE. But our team can down the first boss with ease with two commandos DPS.

Maybe its you that is having the issue.

[Arzoo]

We have 3 Gunnery dps in our op (and one sage). On storymode the only dps race that isn't laughable is the bombers on Kephess (but they were still very doable).

 

On hardmode we haved downed Toth/Zorn without seeing enrage. Still wiping on the two tank fight before we see enrages.

 

 

I am moderately certain that the only problem with Gunnery dps in an op is that you're not a Sentinel. A problem everyone seems to share.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Arzoo

[TUXs]

The issue here is not whether you are viable in a team, the issue is how viable you are versus another class. Why are you taking up a spot of a player who can decimate others while still protecting points/capping doors/less deaths/more kills/more damage/more healing and so on...

 

Our class is broken, naive people here "accepting" all the nerfs while saying thank you Bioware are the real issue. We are bad, we need to speak up or re-roll to be viable again.

 

Well said. Kinda sad tbh...