Tank Assassins (and Shadows) are ruining PvP.

[Dee-Jay]

There are ways to beat shadow tanks and tank assassines, one has just to figure out how to beat them, just doing your rotations don't work, you have to watch whet the shadow or assassine is doing and react to it.

 

Again you talk alot without actually having anything to say.

 

DPSing through Force Shroud with white-damage still doesn't ensure you a win. Tank Assassins have enough survivability to come out on top even if you do counter it.

 

And nowhere did I mention that this was about anything but Tank Assassins. I have no strong feelings either way when it comes to the other specs because everyone and their mother is rolling tank-spec anyway. For good reason.

 

Because it wins games.

[MrXen]

Again you talk alot without actually having anything to say.

 

DPSing through Force Shroud with white-damage still doesn't ensure you a win. Tank Assassins have enough survivability to come out on top even if you do counter it.

 

And nowhere did I mention that this was about anything but Tank Assassins. I have no strong feelings either way when it comes to the other specs because everyone and their mother is rolling tank-spec anyway. For good reason.

 

Because it wins games.

 

Interrupt their force lightning with knockback/stun/disappearing/line of sighting them and you win. Game over you win. Next cry thread please.

[oskzzo]

Among the current FotMs, Tank Assassins (and their mirrors) are undoubtedly the grossest imbalance.

 

Yet unlike Marauders with their insane damage or Powertechs with their crazy burst, Tank Assassins actually break the game to an extent.

 

Why may you ask is a tank Assassin game-breaking?

 

1. They beat any class in a 1v1, most of the time it's not even close.

 

2. That means you have to commit at least 2 players towards taking a node guarded by a tank Assassin. But even with 2 players the Assassin will survive long enough for reinforcements to arrive before a cap. 3 Players are enough to ensure a rapid kill, if the Assassin doesn't opt to vanish in order to prolong the fight.

 

3. They also have Stealth, meaning more often than not, there'll be an extra Assassin hiding in the shadows which would also need to be killed.

 

There''s just no feasible counter to that class aside from committing half your team towards finishing them off. If the enemy team has multiple tank Assassins....well good luck with anything.

 

4. They make the best ball carriers against good players (bad players get charged by Juggers), able to speed through fire while taking negligible damage, their Stealth allows them to wait anywhere and their survivability ensures that by the time they get near the enemy goal-line, their resolve bar will be full, making them immune to any CC.

 

5. Should for some reason a group of Assassins tanks ever find itself on the defensive, no problem. Just pull that pesky ball carrier into the nearest fire and lol as you grab the ball for a quick counter.

 

6. Mentioning Guard and all the other crap they have just seems unnecessary at this point.

 

While (most) other classes have to make choices, Tank Assassins have it all.

 

/rant

 

 

After reading all this gripping about tank shadows/assassins i have one question what class are you using to fight them? because this will better explain why you lose to them and why would you want to fight one solo? plus if you would look we are tanks so negating damage is our thing just like all tanks out there. as for damage i have seen hyb tank/dps jugs take down tank assassin with easy. plus in this you argue about WZ well as an assassin yes i stealth and as for surviving that all depends on if a healer is keeping me up or not. now as for one on one duels it depends on the player, class, and gear. and in PvP it is mostly player and gear.

[Astarica]

Me (Pyro) 560k damage Tanksin 650k damage (Voidstar 1 hour ago). If this is not OP thaen what is? Im a DPS and that is a tank with better survivability and lots of defensive cooldowns and the ability to guard. I will only mention that the tanksin would have broken 700k damage, but he was allways taunted by me (74k protection only by using taunts).

I'm not saing nerf but I am saing change a bit the way they work.

 

Of course it is overpowered but even there his damage is not double of yours, and yet his survivality is definitely at least double of most DPS class's.

 

This means each time you killed a Tankasin, you could've killed a DPS twice and this would lead to a better drop on the enemy's performance.

 

As good as the offensive power of the Tankasin is, their true strength is still in their defense. No DPS class even comes close to their survivality, so each time you killed them, a lot of other DPS got away with their deaths. That's what kills you in a competitive game.

[Astarica]

they can taunt and more importantly guard, if you ignore them, they can simply soak up damage for other players. meaning you have to effectively kill them anyway.

 

The Tankasin still takes way more damage from the shared damage compared to what you could've hit him with. Let's say you just have 2 DPS versus DPS + Tankasin. You do X damage to DPS, and 0.75X to Tankasin due to his mitigation. If you focus on the Tankasin, he takes 1.5X damage, except he can use all of his cooldowns that negate most of your burst DPS. If you focus on the DPS, then the DPS takes X damage and so does the Tankasin, for a total of 2X damage, which is considerably more than the 1.5X the Tankasin would've taken if you focused him. More importantly, all the damage you do to the Tankasin bypasses all his cooldowns and this is huge, because Force Shroud is indeed one of the most powerful defensive CDs in the game, and yet the shared damage allows you to actually hit through that unless the Tankasin breaks the guard.

[Zeaza]

Among the current FotMs, Tank Assassins (and their mirrors) are undoubtedly the grossest imbalance.

 

Yet unlike Marauders with their insane damage or Powertechs with their crazy burst, Tank Assassins actually break the game to an extent.

 

Why may you ask is a tank Assassin game-breaking?

 

1. They beat any class in a 1v1, most of the time it's not even close.

 

2. That means you have to commit at least 2 players towards taking a node guarded by a tank Assassin. But even with 2 players the Assassin will survive long enough for reinforcements to arrive before a cap. 3 Players are enough to ensure a rapid kill, if the Assassin doesn't opt to vanish in order to prolong the fight.

 

3. They also have Stealth, meaning more often than not, there'll be an extra Assassin hiding in the shadows which would also need to be killed.

 

There''s just no feasible counter to that class aside from committing half your team towards finishing them off. If the enemy team has multiple tank Assassins....well good luck with anything.

 

4. They make the best ball carriers against good players (bad players get charged by Juggers), able to speed through fire while taking negligible damage, their Stealth allows them to wait anywhere and their survivability ensures that by the time they get near the enemy goal-line, their resolve bar will be full, making them immune to any CC.

 

5. Should for some reason a group of Assassins tanks ever find itself on the defensive, no problem. Just pull that pesky ball carrier into the nearest fire and lol as you grab the ball for a quick counter.

 

6. Mentioning Guard and all the other crap they have just seems unnecessary at this point.

 

While (most) other classes have to make choices, Tank Assassins have it all.

 

/rant

 

I would trade my full bm takasin for a full bm maruder any day...

I'm part of a pre made group consisting on Healer agent, healer merc, maruader and me (tankasin)

and the marauder usually do around 450-650k while im at 200-400k, mostly around 200k because as a tankasin your more focused on defends, guarding nodes and doors in stealth etc..

 

the tankasin is not OP you just need to push the right buttons at the right timing to kill it, get some skills.

[Britneyfears]

Me (Pyro) 560k damage Tanksin 650k damage (Voidstar 1 hour ago). If this is not OP thaen what is? Im a DPS and that is a tank with better survivability and lots of defensive cooldowns and the ability to guard. I will only mention that the tanksin would have broken 700k damage, but he was allways taunted by me (74k protection only by using taunts).

I'm not saing nerf but I am saing change a bit the way they work.

 

Most of the tankassin damage comes from AoE damage, you know, multiple targets at once since alot of games people pack up so it's easy to throw alot of withers in for example. Seeing so many people looking at the endchart of a game and drawing these crazy conclusions, makes me a sad panda.

 

Besides, so many other factors are in play when it comes to doing alot of DPS, like staying alive! Seeing dps classes run into the enemy, getting hammered and die like a fly, everytime... Surprise, you won't do alot of damage. Bad positioning, bad timing, not (ab)using LoS, blowing every cd on enemies defensive cd's., keyboardturning, clicking, backpeddaling, mega slow reaction speed, not being in range to be able to do damage because of earlier mentioned reasons, not looking at the enemy's buffs, procs to react accordingly, going solo (since that is what I mostly read here on the forums...1v1, while WZ's are TEAM based games, maybe treat it as such).

 

I could go on and on what people do and don't do and not being able to stay alive/doing enough damage.

 

I have a jug guildie who did 1 million damage in Alderaan. Big deal! Heck, all my guildies are old multi glads, rank 1, hero of the alliance etc. players, including myself. We all play multiple classes/specs (all BM geared), and tankassins are the least of our problems.

[Ishly]

shadow have amazing sustain with focus

2-3-4 people cant kill him if he use all his cooldown (and cd on save abilities around 1min)

on all wz its amazing power - prevent chekong bombs, towers etc

huttbal its just joke...

[Archaar]

There were 3 full BM well known sin tanks and 1 I've never seen in a recent voidstar. We won pretty handily. Not sure what the problem is. My premade was: 1 vig guardian (me), 1 shadow tank, 1 scoundrel healer, 1 DPS sage.

 

You need to snare them (I use freezing force) and then just focus on white damage attacks. Whenever one pops resilience I use sundering strike > master strike > overhead slash. By then I can continue hitting normally.

 

You also need to stun force lightning. If you keep them slowed and stun their self heals they are not as powerful as everyone thinks, although they have insane survivability for the burst they get compared to infiltration speccd assassin.

 

If you stun their force lightning all their other attacks can easily be healed through, even particle accelerated lightnings / projects.

 

THIS. Most of the time it's a learn to play issue, I have Sorcs on my server call me OP, these are the same Sorcs that make no attempt to slow me or kite, that keep firing abilities at me when I pop resilience and will literally stand in front of me spamming Force Lightning. Take note of the above, it's a learn to play issue I'm afraid. I also don't understand why people are still focussing on Shadows/Sins when Marauders and Sentinels do more dps than us, provide more utility and have better defensive cooldowns.

 

Oh and btw, I have a Recruit PvP geared Sage (Running the good old hybrid spec), I can kill BM / Warhero Tankassasins with very little trouble, knockback, slow, kite, keep at max range. Aside from deflection and resiliance they don't have a lot more in defense, considering most are running DPS gear instead of Tank Gear, they are not that difficult to kill, I just know how to counter that class. A decent marauder though, will kill me in 3-5 seconds, no matter how hard I try to kite/avoid them.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Archaar

[da_krall]

 

3. They also have Stealth, meaning more often than not, there'll be an extra Assassin hiding in the shadows which would also need to be killed.

 

Arh the old "this class is OP because i cant beat them 1v2 arguement". Nice one.

[tspev]

Why do shadow/ sin tanks insist they are fine? In the Shdoaw forums there was a wonderful post by one of your own how his DPS as a tank is dir4ectly comparable to the DPS trees with tank mitigation. So at that point it tells me when you can admit it amongst yourselves then you know it is an issue and not L2P for others.

 

Tanks should just generate threat and do ZERO damage. I have no issue withthem surviviing for a long tiime but at the same time they should in no way be able to kill another player. It is all the window lickers that can not pvp properly that hide behind gimic specs to try and win things. Look at WoW and all the Blood Dks. that would be comparabel to what is going on here.......

[Souju]

plz tell me TE is a roflbursti_zero_skill_but_singularity_and_100% crit on_demand_plusmasterof_"kick" player who is crying that he cant kill them.

 

would be so nice

Edited April 19, 2012 by Souju

[Jatne]

Among the current FotMs, Tank Assassins (and their mirrors) are undoubtedly the grossest imbalance.

 

Yet unlike Marauders with their insane damage or Powertechs with their crazy burst, Tank Assassins actually break the game to an extent.

 

Why may you ask is a tank Assassin game-breaking?

 

1. They beat any class in a 1v1, most of the time it's not even close.

 

2. That means you have to commit at least 2 players towards taking a node guarded by a tank Assassin. But even with 2 players the Assassin will survive long enough for reinforcements to arrive before a cap. 3 Players are enough to ensure a rapid kill, if the Assassin doesn't opt to vanish in order to prolong the fight.

 

3. They also have Stealth, meaning more often than not, there'll be an extra Assassin hiding in the shadows which would also need to be killed.

 

There''s just no feasible counter to that class aside from committing half your team towards finishing them off. If the enemy team has multiple tank Assassins....well good luck with anything.

 

4. They make the best ball carriers against good players (bad players get charged by Juggers), able to speed through fire while taking negligible damage, their Stealth allows them to wait anywhere and their survivability ensures that by the time they get near the enemy goal-line, their resolve bar will be full, making them immune to any CC.

 

5. Should for some reason a group of Assassins tanks ever find itself on the defensive, no problem. Just pull that pesky ball carrier into the nearest fire and lol as you grab the ball for a quick counter.

 

6. Mentioning Guard and all the other crap they have just seems unnecessary at this point.

 

While (most) other classes have to make choices, Tank Assassins have it all.

 

/rant

 

Game should be balanced for 1 vs. 1 right, brah?!

 

My favorite line...

 

3. They also have Stealth, meaning more often than not, there'll be an extra Assassin hiding in the shadows which would also need to be killed.

 

Nerd stealth, brah. Make them glow, with yellow arrows pointing to them, just like Herald of Xotli in Age of Conan. Good idea right?!

 

And finally, Force Pull brah... even though resolve, scenery and Sorc/Sage Rescue counter it... it's way too OP. It should definitely be removed right, brah?

 

SARCASM ASIDE.

 

This game IS NOT balanced for 1 vs. 1.

The class has several counters. One being they have very low 3D viability. One pull. Once they are knocked down, it's GG. 30 seconds to run around and get back up again.

 

 

Anyway, as much as I would like to spend more time tearing your lolRage post appart, I have some RL things to attend to. So, let me finish with...

 

U MAD BRO?

[RyderQuanTy]

to start I played in a wz nova cost the othere day 2 sent, 2 gardians vs 3 assains ans 1 operative i am a vigilance guardian the assasians ans operative annilated us it went something like this force leep abd then the s*#% hit the fan coordinated alternating knock backes keep us from getting close and the operative just keep killing everyone.

 

 

we died because we need to LTP

 

There is not a class out there I can not take 1 on 1 it is not the classes

 

All complaints about classes are based on how they work in hut ball

,"""

cry

",,,,,

oh and full rresolve and run away right over the fire that is just stupid and un fair

 

how about hold the stuns till they are on the fire!!!!

 

What this forum need is a how to counter a class guide

[jibboo]

lol @ this whole thread

[Dorpire]

I would trade my full bm takasin for a full bm maruder any day...

I'm part of a pre made group consisting on Healer agent, healer merc, maruader and me (tankasin)

and the marauder usually do around 450-650k while im at 200-400k, mostly around 200k because as a tankasin your more focused on defends, guarding nodes and doors in stealth etc..

 

the tankasin is not OP you just need to push the right buttons at the right timing to kill it, get some skills.

 

 

I really dont think it's the dps output of the tankasin that's the problem...it's the overall survivability... put one tankasin to guard something and voila poof the team can use the 7 other ppl to guard the other side..no way to kill tankasin before you can get help over if needbe.

[ProsaicProse]

After reading these forums, I've come to the conclusion that most ACs are overpowered. Perhaps we want more easy kills that can't kill us back. So, how about people roll more healers?

[blackdots]

Darkness Assassins are yet another one of those builds that dominates sloppy pugs, but could end up considerably less effective in rated. They're a "jack of all trades, master of none" (with the exception of huttball carrier). The AOE damage is ok for putting up decent-looking numbers on the board, but it's really "empty calorie" dps.

[Koolmea]

Learn to counter us instead of opening another whining thread.

 

Thank you.

[MightyRoy]

Srsly guys, flash grenades, kiting, pulls and mezzes, Ive taken many nodes solo with the proper use of these

[Ewgal]

 

Why may you ask is a tank Assassin game-breaking?

 

1. They beat any class in a 1v1, most of the time it's not even close.

 

They have all the aces. Their only weakness is to ranged.

 

2. That means you have to commit at least 2 players towards taking a node guarded by a tank Assassin. But even with 2 players the Assassin will survive long enough for reinforcements to arrive before a cap. 3 Players are enough to ensure a rapid kill, if the Assassin doesn't opt to vanish in order to prolong the fight.

 

Their survivability is better than any other class in the game right now in PvP.

 

3. They also have Stealth, meaning more often than not, there'll be an extra Assassin hiding in the shadows which would also need to be killed.

 

The stealth sort of makes them a PvP opponent with an iWin button in the same way operatives were at launch. They are the only stealth tanks.

 

4. They make the best ball carriers against good players (bad players get charged by Juggers), able to speed through fire while taking negligible damage, their Stealth allows them to wait anywhere and their survivability ensures that by the time they get near the enemy goal-line, their resolve bar will be full, making them immune to any CC.

 

Stealth can be a real problem in Huttball.

 

5. Should for some reason a group of Assassins tanks ever find itself on the defensive, no problem. Just pull that pesky ball carrier into the nearest fire and lol as you grab the ball for a quick counter.

 

Pull into fire should be limited in Huttball as it is a form of griefing and is killing the enemy player without using your dmg capabilities as a player in PvP. Poorly designed by Bioware. Just give them a pull like the Sorc/Sage.

 

6. Mentioning Guard and all the other crap they have just seems unnecessary at this point.

 

While (most) other classes have to make choices, Tank Assassins have it all.

 

They have good dps, stealth and tank survivability. No wonder so many play this class in PvP now.

 

/rant

 

Yes.I do agree assassin is OP in PvP right now. They need to be brought back down to the other classes in a future patch.

[VoidJustice]

pvp is pretty balanced atm, please don't ruin it.

 

thx

[Enexemander]

I'm sorry, but are you guys complaining about TANK assassins taking a while to kill? Being good at guarding nodes?

 

Seriously?

 

Let's next complain about healers being able to heal, and dps being able to do damage. Of course a tank in tank gear is going to be an excellent tank. In dps gear, a darkness assassin is nothing special. cc/knockback the force lightning and profit. It's seriously that easy.

[Ucsimplyme]

Why do shadow/ sin tanks insist they are fine? In the Shdoaw forums there was a wonderful post by one of your own how his DPS as a tank is dir4ectly comparable to the DPS trees with tank mitigation. So at that point it tells me when you can admit it amongst yourselves then you know it is an issue and not L2P for others.

Tanks should just generate threat and do ZERO damage. I have no issue withthem surviviing for a long tiime but at the same time they should in no way be able to kill another player. It is all the window lickers that can not pvp properly that hide behind gimic specs to try and win things. Look at WoW and all the Blood Dks. that would be comparabel to what is going on here.......

 

How should this work in PvP? If they do zero damage, they should be unkillable. That would be balance but it wouldn't be fun because people would just ignore you.

 

Some balance between damage and survivability needs to be struck with tanks. Right now DPS tank assassin/shadows are doing about 80% that of DPS assassin/shadows and about 65% that of Ann. Marauders (and equiv sentinels). See each of their respective forums for the DPS tests for each of these builds.

[Enexemander]

How should this work in PvP? If they do zero damage, they should be unkillable. That would be balance but it wouldn't be fun because people would just ignore you.

 

Some balance between damage and survivability needs to be struck with tanks. Right now DPS tank assassin/shadows are doing about 80% that of DPS assassin/shadows and about 65% that of Ann. Marauders (and equiv sentinels). See each of their respective forums for the DPS tests for each of these builds.

 

A dps geared Darkness Assassin does not hold a candle to the burst damage ability of a deception or madness assassin. A deception assassin can hit for 12-13k in 2 globals with cooldowns popped.

 

If a true dps spec can't drop a darkness sin 1v1 then it's not the darkness sin being overpowered; it's the other guy not knowing how to play.

 

Sorry, but it's true.

 

[edit] A darkness sin will also never kill a healer that knows how to play. You can annoy them, and make them heal themselves, but killing a quality healer is out of the question solo.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Enexemander