Feedback request from James Ohlen - Group Finder

[nescul]

If i got to pick 1 its flashpoints and then with a mix server queue since i can play mostly on the off peak hours and just not enough people online on the server it seems and questing only its getting to boring

[PPharoah]

Please make a group finder for All of the above, its so tough to find groups for any of these, especially when on a planet with very few people due to late night, work hours, etc.

 

If people had the option they could just disable the group finders they didn't want. This option in-game would be a huge access to your customer base.

 

Thank you for reading and keep up the great work Bioware!

[ChazDoit]

It has to be at least for Flashpoints and Operations, not so much for Heroics.

 

Damion Schubert said that they are trying to make Operations harder, so pugging operations will not be very productive, but people will still want to play Opeartions in normal mode, etc

Edited April 22, 2012 by ChazDoit

[Ubermensche]

This will be the first post I've made on these forums and most probably the last, because of the caustic nature of all MMO forums. I just want to highlight how rare it is for me to be passionate enough about a subject to post on it. I also want to let everyone know how important this issue to me and my guildmates. I hope that forum-goers and developers alike will take note of my (rather lengthy and verbose) post. I also want to warn my fellow ADD players that this will be doozy, and as such you will probably move on to watch Spongebob and/or play with shiny objects about half way through, so don't even bother attempting to read this without your medication.

 

Firstly, to all those who have been "screaming for groups in the general chat for hours": there is this function called "/who" that enables you to organize people by level and class, allowing you to individually whisper them and quickly access group content. Using this (admittedly outdated) method, I have had no trouble finding groups. I also want to point out that much of the group content can be done with fewer players than is listed. And no, I'm not trying to be rude or sarcastic by calling attention to this feature, as many players are completely unaware of its existence. But I digress.

 

I have played many MMOs, WoW in particular, for years. I was initially opposed to group finders in WoW because the LFG channel was very active, and because I felt that allowing instantaneous access to dungeons prevented people from seeing and exploring the lovingly crafted environments along the way. That being said, all of the flashpoints are located in a rather dull central hub, and there is no active LFG channel. A same server LFG should be a given.

 

As to the ideas mentioned on this thread, I am completely for heroic quests/dailies being queueable, in addition to the idea that one individual came up with regarding cross legacy LFG. This would make any wait times a queue would entail rather arbitrary. That being said I think that server transfers are necessary for the long term survivability of this game, but I understand that, from the fiscal standpoint, enabling server transfers in new MMOs scares investors and share holders. Perhaps in time you will have a solid playerbase from which you will be able to instill confidence into your investors, allowing you to implement this much needed feature.

 

On to the proposed features that I am completely and utterly against: cross server queues and queueable operations. Now as many people on this thread have challenged people who share my opinion to defend this position, I will offer to the thread - and hopefully to the developers - logical and financial incentives to not include these features.

 

Why not cross server queues? Simple really. Players who are grouped with players from the same server are more likely to form productive bonds with one another, easing their passage into operations and giving them further incentive to play. Players who spend time in operations and with friends are more likely to play - and pay - longer. The only thing that cross server transfers actually do is alienate new players by exposing them to the worst elements of the community: people who don't have the patience to allow new players to watch the story unfold, people who don't have the patience to explain boss mechanics to new players, people who are willing to arbitrarily lessen a players experience (by trolling or harassing) because they have ego/daddy issues, and people who are willing to need on gear for vendor cash, because, let's face it, there are no repercussions for their actions. Does pairing up new players (new costumers) with experienced, jaded, impatient ******es who know they will go unpunished by their respective communities sound like a recipe for fun (a good business model)?

 

And why not operations? This is even more simple. Queueable operations always assemble a group of players that are of unequal skill levels. This means that, for the group to be successful, their lowest common denominator (their worst player) must be capable of performing the required tasks to complete the operation. There is only one outcome to this: lowering the difficulty of operations - operations that are frequently described as being extremely easy by the majority of the end game playerbase. While there can be a LFG specific difficulty, most casual players strive to merely see the story. Once they are done with this, they have no incentive to play, causing these players to unsubscribe. Even if only temporary, this is a loss in revenue, and from the player standpoint, this means that the developers have even less resources with which they can hone the game. It will also mean that developers will be hard pressed to meet the demands for fresh content - putting a further strain on the developers that will ultimately lead to subpar/rushed content.

 

I won't be responding to comments directed at this post, because I'd rather be playing the game then talking about it. However, I do want to say that I respect the opinions of everyone on this thread, and that I hope you will reciprocate this respect when discussing my own, as our opinions are ultimately subjective and Bioware will make the final decision regardless. Thanks again for reading.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Ubermensche
Grammar

[Karkais]

Flashpoints, definitely. After that, Heroic missions, and then OP's.

 

This. Flashpoints (hardmodes) are very important in terms of gearing for endgame, so they come first imo.

 

Finding groups for H4's is usually pretty hard so they would benefit being in the group finder. But heroics are usually something that you do while you are leveling your character, so they come only second after flashpoints.

 

Ops are a guild thing mostly in my opinion, but having them in group finder would be ok.

[Banicks]

"No preference/all of the above" - how can you possibly justify placing two odd ended preferences in the same vote?

 

This is an indication that regardless of the poll, the features will be rolled out at BWs discretion, if ever.

[Sivenom]

i would rather see a flashpoint, and hm fp, LFG finder. It would ideally (in my opinion) be a single server, auto-finder. it would place you in a best suited group of your server to do that flashpoint. But it would also have simultaneous queuing... so i can select Kaon under siege normal, HM false emp, AND black talon HM if I wanted.

 

Ideally it would also have two other options; group quests and planet-wide questing (these two would not be autoselection and you would have to manually ask the person). you can simultaneously queue for those and FPs too.

 

However, once grouped the entries will be wiped and you will see a banner that says "You have been removed from the queues. Reasoning: [here it would say "joined a group" or "flashpoint:Kaon under siege" or whatever you were autoselected for]"

 

I would not mind a LFG tool for operations as well (also not an autoselection) that would show who is willing to group for what op, what difficulty level, and what role they play. However, this entry will not be wiped if you become grouped. Instead on your entry a little box or something will light up saying "this person is currently grouped up" and it could be blue for a normal 4-person party or orange for an op.

 

The planet-wide questing option mentioned earlier could also be either global (specific to that planet) or it could be galactic (anyone anywhere can check to see if someone is wanting to group for tatooine and they can be on alderaan or the fleet or something).

 

 

That's just my opinion on the ideal system. I'd like it and definitely use it, but not too sure if it's something everyone would want either.

I can definitely say that cross server is something I hope never to see again. That's my feedback.

[Tyraeston]

GROUP SHUTTLE OR TAXI

One of the biggest things that prevents group is the time to assemble everyone. In some other games, once the group is formed, you enter the instance/quest/mission window and start. This in turn "TRANSPORTS" all members to that instance/quest/mission.

This would be a great feature to add. and it makes sense, just like calling a shuttle to bring to a spaceport.

Now if you wanted to, you could make being in your ship the requirement, that way people enter the group finder anywhere and once the group has formed, they quick travel to a spaceport, into ship and then the leader starts the instance. Maybe even have a special console on the ship to "enter" the instance.

 

Please consider this.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Tyraeston

[Ultramanas]

Honestly,

 

I'm really concerned on how you are going to implement lfg, so you might as well put xserver (to help the dead servers out there)

 

1. There's a tank/healer shortage in this game and compared to that OG, the ratio of dps to tanks is 2:1 instead of 3:1. The q's are going to be to long for dps especially with part 2.

 

2. The flashpoints themselves right now have way to much trash in them, Kaon under Seige has a ridiculous amount of trash, as do the Ilum flashpoints. I just don't see tanks/healers q'ing up and putting up with that, especially if they're done gearing from those flashpoints. You are going to need to give them an extra incentive to do so.

 

I think they're going to have to retune these flashpoints, otherwise q's are going to take forever.

[Malynn]

I would think a looking for group would be fine for flash points. It would allow people to queue up for FPs without having to sit on the Fleet.

 

However PLEASE PLEASE don't create one for raids! I can't tell you how bad of an experience it was to be in a LFR group in WoW. The designers simplified the fights to a pathetic level. Many people went on LFR without enchants or gems; absolutely minimally prepared. Griefers would activate a boss so that the boss would kill everyone entering the area.

 

For serious raiders, we used the LFR because it was a way to get gear set bonuses and a way to gear up our alts. But LFR eventually drove many like me out of WoW completely. I ended up doing the "end-game raid content" week after week, on my main and alts. BORED out of my skull! I felt like I had killed the final expansion boss a gazillion times months before the next expansion was due.

 

Then I read that the WoW dev team felt LFR was the wave of the future for raiding because the numbers showed so many people using it. The dev team obviously wasn't listening to raiders in vent, who hated the experience but felt they were forced to use it to keep their characters competitive.

 

Please realize that looking for group can be an awesome tool (flashpoints for example). But it has to be applied carefully or it will be a disaster in the long run.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Malynn

[SaintForHire]

I voted flashpoints but if I had to put down an order of importance I would say...

 

Flashpoints

Heroic Missions

Operations

 

I can't raid on a schedule so it'd be great to try and pug story mode whenever I feel like, but I'd prefer to have a flashpoints and heroic missions group finder first.

[xorcist]

Hello Stephen and James,

 

I chose all of the above. They are all important, however there is a problem I can see about the Heroics group finder. If they are only single server grouping (for now). Taking account that some factions are lower populated, and some planets may have only 4 - 15 players at most any given time. Then looking for a group for that specific 4+Heroic quest on that specific planet will take a very long time, or will not be able to form a group considering that the other players will not be looking during when you want to group up. Because many of those 4+Heroics are level specific, I don't see Group finder working very well unless it is spread across many more servers.

I will give you an example. While I was leveling on Republic side, every planet I went to level up, did not go past 18 players. Most cases it did not go past 10 players. Finding a group with such low population on a specific planet means there will likely be a very long wait for a group. Most will not bother and continue leveling without doing any 4+Heroic quests. I can safely say during my leveling an alt recently to max level, I did not do any what so ever, because most of the time there were fluctuations of only about 4 - 8 players on average on any given planet. At some moments there were less...

[Dolcia]

Wish there was a "same server only!" option. That would be most important to me.

[Malles]

My vote says Hard Modes only.

 

Something that happened when WoW implemented their group finder was, people could jump into instances and just blitz through everything, hitting level cap in a week or less if done right. Doing PvE with those people was nearly a damn job, because they had little to no knowledge of their class. They just got carried by everyone else in the group and failed at the "monkey see, monkey do" method they employed. Then those people get into Hard Modes or Operations and wonder why everyone's talking really slow to them and being mean mean doodieheads. It's because their quick-and-easy route just wiped our boss fight, that's why.

 

Also, if I was the dev that spent all that hard work making the story and designing the planets, then every single paying member of this community is leveling through them. Same reason you should take experience gains out of Warzones, at least the leveling part, and make PvP a level-cap-only thing. But that's a different thread.

 

And for Operations, those should be manual grouping to force people into using the "mulitplayer" part of MMO. Operations are the advanced play. They require cooperation between eight different people and as anyone who's done Warzones can tell you, that is far from a given thing. To be blunt, I'd like to be able to make sure the healer I'm trusting to keep me alive is not so wet behind the ears you can hear the water gushing out off them in Vent.

[Lightmaguz]

all of the above

[mtsr]

yep, all of the above + In Game VOIP communications.

 

Joining a group should connect all in the group to a simple VOIP for verbal communications.

 

Also, add in-game Voip to WZ ops groups.

This way pugs can compete against guilded voip pre-mades.

 

EA has ran gaming servers for at least a decade they ought to help on getting in-game voip to swtor if needed.

 

Not sure that will go over with a lot of guilds that only want to faceroll pugs in wz's.

I'm thinking guilds will be against group finder as well.

 

Not all of them though some welcome the challenge of better competition.

Edited April 23, 2012 by mtsr
spelling

[VanderII]

Farming a group for flashpoint is important for me, there are some flashpoint which I haven't do yet because I don't find a party to do these flashpoints.

[RachelAnne]

yep, all of the above + In Game VOIP communications.

 

Joining a group should connect all in the group to a simple VOIP for verbal communications.

 

Also, add in-game Voip to WZ ops groups.

 

Thats like a nightmare coming true. Counter Strike incoming with flaming kids all the time, who scream in their mics, do weird noise etc.

Edited April 23, 2012 by RachelAnne

[Hangingbrain]

I made the mistake of hitting the Hard Mode option. I was confused as FPs are almost the same as HMs. Being able to just group up and do missions, be it FPs or HMs is most important to me. Group finder, in general, is fantastic though. Cannot wait for it.

[bloomfireblade]

Hello everyone! James Ohlen, Game Director for Star Wars: The Old Republic, is looking for your feedback on the game's development once again. This week, with the development team hard at work on the next Game Update, he's asking for feedback on a planned feature.

 

James takes feedback directly via his Twitter account (@JamesOhlen), but if you're not on Twitter, his question is below and you can give your feedback here which will be passed on to him. You can also cast your vote on a poll.

 

As always, we ask you to limit your feedback to the question at hand and keep your feedback constructive as well as on-topic!

 

Here is James' question for this week:

 

What part of a Group Finder feature is most important to you? Is it forming a group for Operations, for Flashpoints, for Heroics, for something else - or do you have no preference?

 

As a note; at this time the Group Finder feature in development is limited to searching on a single server only.

 

You can vote in the attached poll on these options.

 

As a reminder, you can follow James on Twitter @JamesOhlen. You can also follow our main account @SWTOR.

 

and how long will it take the developer to implement such feature ? if you consider doing it because James Ohlen should finally realize he and bioware makes the decisions here not us we are only good for paying but have no voice in decisions on what is being done that is bioware business

[Tsillah]

I voted all of the above but really I would like to see if for FP's and Heroics. Don't need em for Operations.

[The_Reap]

I vote for "No preference/all of the above", it's better for all, include the heroic.

I play into Trayus Academy server and for the Heroics i need to ask help to level 50 or left the heroic because (like yesterday on hoth) we are only 2 into the planet...

[chaosdefined]

However PLEASE PLEASE don't create one for raids! I can't tell you how bad of an experience it was to be in a LFR group in WoW. The designers simplified the fights to a pathetic level. Many people went on LFR without enchants or gems; absolutely minimally prepared. Griefers would activate a boss so that the boss would kill everyone entering the area.

 

For serious raiders, we used the LFR because it was a way to get gear set bonuses and a way to gear up our alts. But LFR eventually drove many like me out of WoW completely. I ended up doing the "end-game raid content" week after week, on my main and alts. BORED out of my skull! I felt like I had killed the final expansion boss a gazillion times months before the next expansion was due.

 

Then I read that the WoW dev team felt LFR was the wave of the future for raiding because the numbers showed so many people using it. The dev team obviously wasn't listening to raiders in vent, who hated the experience but felt they were forced to use it to keep their characters competitive.

 

Please realize that looking for group can be an awesome tool (flashpoints for example). But it has to be applied carefully or it will be a disaster in the long run.

 

Not sure why you are complaining about doing something that was completely optional to you, especially as you claim to be a hardcore raider and the LFR was not intended to be used by hardcore raiders?

 

Perhaps that was why Blizz didn't listen to you? You're complaining about a tool that wasn't aimed at you and you don't have to use, and in no way affects raiding with your guild in normal and heroic modes?

 

Why they felt they had to use the LFR to remain competitive is even more confusing, considering that all the loot dropped inside was of lesser quality than that in Normal mode or purchased using badges!

 

People really need to think before complaining.

Edited April 23, 2012 by chaosdefined

[Kauhu]

Flashpoints, but NOT crossrealm. That's a community destroyer right there.

[chaosdefined]

Flashpoints, but NOT crossrealm. That's a community destroyer right there.

 

Yet nobody has been able to explain exactly how it is that playing with people in an instance for an hour or two somehow manages to stop other people talking on General Chat or forming pugs of their own.

Strange that.

Edited April 23, 2012 by chaosdefined