Have you seen maras/sorcs lately?

[Visue]

Yawn. Maras/ sents are only overpowered when played by good players against bad/average players. L2P before running to the forums with your tail between your legs crying for a nerf.

 

This post attacks the arguer instead of the argument. This accomplishes nothing.

[Dabrixmgp]

This post attacks the arguer instead of the argument. This accomplishes nothing.

 

Do you seriously think people posting on an MMO forum know what all the fallacies are? or can even name 2-3.

[Macroecon]

But you really cannot tell how the devs make the choices they do, in all honesty if this gos like this live in rated, its just going to be 4 maras per team if pvp stays in it's current state.

 

One can never predict with certainty the future actions of a human being. But one can examine their pattern of past actions and glean from that some information about how that human being (or beings) make decisions.

 

It took BW 5 months for them to react to known game imbalances that were pointed out to them in beta. They waited that long because they wanted to see whether the theorized imbalances actually played out ingame. It will take them at least as long to fix the current issues. I do think they will recognize them faster this time. But politically it will be impossible for them to make major class balances changes in the middle of Season 1. It will need to occur in the interregnum between Seasons 1 & 2.

 

And yes, the optimal team will consist of 4-5 Mara/Sents. That's why all the top players are finishing up their new toons. And people haven't even begun to see the full potential of Mara/Sents when they are coordinated in a team framework. Think Maras using voice comm to coordinate and chain cast Bloodlust sequentially so the entire team has a 75 sec buff. A good Mara team will actually be able to combine that with a 75 second window for Predation. That is game over. No enemy team can run away for 75 seconds and have any hope of winning.

[Dabrixmgp]

This game is starting to be like Rift. The Devs in both games balance around forum QQ at any given moment. Just like in Rift whats OP in one patch becomes a free kill the next. And what was a free kill becomes OP. Then the cycle continues till everyone quits because they are tired of rerolling or relearning their class. People can hate FoTM rerollers all they want but at least they are smart enough to know when a class becomes trash and just move on to one that wont have you raging every time you try to PvP.

 

I know WoW isnt perfect but most classes/specs are pretty balanced in PvP. Pretty much any class people say is OP there is a counter class to it. Also they dont have a huge roller coaster rides of balancing and rebalancing except after each expansion (every 2 years) rather than every patch (every 2 months)

Edited April 22, 2012 by Dabrixmgp

[Pathlight-]

Do you seriously think people posting on an MMO forum know what all the fallacies are? or can even name 2-3.

 

How richly ironic that you should emphasize the post referring to this fallacy while passing a sweeping, stereotypical and baseless judgement on the entire population of SWTOR forum posters.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Pathlight-

[Dabrixmgp]

How richly ironic that you should emphasize the post referring to this fallacy while passing a sweeping, stereotypical and baseless judgement on the entire population of SWTOR forum posters.

 

 

Well seeing how majority of all posts are either bandwagon, slippery slope, ad hominem, or red herrings i just assumed they didnt know what they meant unless they were using them on purpose

[Hizoka]

the main issue is bad players are mad that good players beat them. No matter how balanced a game will be, bad players will always claim a class is over powered when they die to it rather then admiting they are the one who is bad.

 

 

Maras/Sents have been basically unchanged for over 9 months, however in thehands of a good player they will wreck you, and odds are if they wreck you on a sent'mara they would of wrecked you on any other class simply because everything else is easier to play.

[NasherUK]

It's not as bad as some people say. But they really didn't need buffing. If they intend to let them keep the DPS they have now they need to nerf the survivability. Or at least buff juggs/guardians to the same level. Edited April 23, 2012 by NasherUK

[DirtyBirdie]

I am going to issue a challenge to EVERY SINGLE PERSON who thinks that Marauders/ Sentinels are OP.

 

Roll either a Marauder or a Sentinel, and level them. Learn the class, the good, the bad, the ugly. Pvp A LOT. Solo ques, a group will wreck no matter what class you are, and lead to false results. Watch how many times you die. If you take this seriously, you WILL learn that Marauders and Sentinels can be countered. You will learn the limits of what they can and cannot do. Good players will take note of the class weaknesses, baddies will get stomped because of how complicated the class is. Either way, you learn that we are not these immortal gods of utter destruction.

 

If you do not take this challenge, and educate yourself, your opinions on these forums DO NOT MATTER because you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

FYI, most Marauders and Sentinels are currently Rage/ Focus specced. Take that into account with your accusations too.

 

Decided to "take on your challenge" par say, rerolled a sentinel like so many others after my sage got roflstomped by the patch, got the sent up to level 50 and am currently in half BM gear. Is my sent harder to play than my sage? Yes and no, there are definitely more keybinds and abilities you have to be paying attention to thats for sure, i hear the over exaggerated argument against the "3 button pushers" (even though thats moot and not true at all for any class), the sentinel is definitely higher maintenance. On the other hand, I find that my Sentinel doesnt have to be nearly as timid as other classes though, LOS concerns arent nearly as big of an issue, and you have cooldowns to get your *** out of a bad situation NP. Does the sentinel completely steamroll almost everything i come across? YUP. Are they OP? Eh yea probably, i kind of agree that other classes need to get buffed in ways that round out the classes, always trying to limit the 1 button faceroll abilities. I like how the mechanics feel for the sentinel playing right now, so id hate to see BW nerf break it and make it feel all "right shoe on left foot" like my sage currently does. But yea i think the class can expect a nerf coming up, WZ's are just littered with sents/maras right now its rediculous.

[Evolved_Monky]

Come on now, everyone knows Sent/Maras are OP and the current FOTM right now. To say other wise just makes you sound like one trying to avoid the nerf bat.

 

Does that mean there godly and unkillable no.

 

Nor do they take skill to use. Seriously if they took skill to be good with everyone would say they are an underpowered class and need a buff.

 

Maybe im just a uber mmo player but Sent/maras were the easiest class to play when I tried one. I could literaly roll my face on the keyboard and play the class decent enough to get kills. I dont think i ever went down below half rage, Seriously just roll your face on the keyboard and everyone will think ur a decent player.

 

Which is why some of the worst players roll that class. I cringe when im doing a heroic with one. Ive only met a few who didnt pull adds in pve or jump into a group of elites with half health, I always tell them wait for the tank and after we CC but they never listen. And in pvp talk about lemmings.

[CanisAquilus]

The problem here is that BW's ingame data collection does not adjust for player quality. Thus a difficult to play, yet still objectively OP class for top players such as Mara/Sent, will get buffed in a manner that is puzzling from a game (im)balance standpoint. The reverse is also true. A class that is nerfed will tend to have many players leave it. Those that remain are often the highest skill, hardcore adherents to the class. That results in an INCREASE in average productivity even after a nerf. Which in turn results in BW deciding to nerf the class even further. This is exactly what happened to Concealment Operatives.

 

This is an interesting idea.

[Inncarnate]

How do you define a class as op? Everytime u meet one u get whooped? No matter what class u play there's nothing u can do to win? If i were to call it Yeh no matter what i do or what class i played even in full bm gear and couldn't take more than 50% health before i died then id think they could do with a slight tweak. Mara/sents are strong but there far from op lmao to call one op u need to learn more about ur classes depending on gear and what class i play whether range or melee determines how i deal with them and from personal experience comes down to the player not the class! Instead of crying for nerfs (which is no help at all) how bout u give an idea of what things could happen to help balance them with other classes?? For most u wouldn't have a clue cause u havnt played one, so until u have or have a more constructive point quit crying for nerfs honestly its like im dealing with children! And just for the ppl that say i must have a mara yes at lvl 10 lol i have no plans on pvpin him as i have far to much fun pwning Mata/sents on my operative

[Macroecon]

Look if there is anyone left that still doubts my statement that classes that get nerfed continue to get nerfed because of player migration, just look at what happened with Arsenal Mercs. Nerfed again in 1.2c. Sure BW can spin it as a bug fix, but if a bug fix that lowered dps was required for Mara/Sent, they certainly would have counterbalanced that with a buff elsewhere.

 

In fact it wouldn't surprise me a bit if melee dps got another round of buffs in 1.2.2. There are so many people rerolling as Mara/Sent and Assassin/Shadow that their average productivity numbers will be lower for many weeks as players climb the learning curve and go with poor gear. That's going to reduce average class productivity which BW will interpret as requiring a class buff.

 

The classes that are likely to get more nerfs? Healing Sorcs and healing BH. Almost no one plays those classes any more. The only ones left are top elite players who are stubborn. On my server I can count these players on a single hand. These are the players that were good enough to pump out 800k heals and now are down to 550k in a good match. But since they now constitute the entirety of their subclasses' population demographic, their subclass has outrageously high productivity compared to other subclasses. Hence the likelihood for more nerfs coming their way.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Macroecon

[Bienenwolf]

Lol... no.

 

Lol, yes.

[shegoy]

I have seen pvp vids of all the classes owning in some sense when their being played by competent players does that make them OP? of course not after leveling a few different classes i find their play style is equally difficult and different to play and pick up.

 

Everyone assumes because they pay money to play their entitled to win the majority of the time hands down with little effort into personal development of their class. I respect those that own me the majority of the time its not a bug but my own lack of knowledge, if i get owned repeatably by a certain class the first thing you should look at is what buffs they got on are they being healed figure out my apponents general rotation know the big hitters and adjust my rotation to suit my encounters if after this i cannot counter or compete with my available skills then i might think about possible OP but not come on here and vent my frustration i might make a general class discussion thread and hear two sides of the story firstly.

 

People ruin games with their OP QQ you must understand both your apponents mechanics and your own before passing judjment i guarantee every class at some point will get a dose of the OP threads and it will be a different story when it comes round to your classes turn.

 

And finaly honestly what are sorcs mentioned in this thread post 1.2 the poster must have been seriously butt hurt in the past and wishes nothing less than the total elimination of the class lol give them a break.

Edited April 25, 2012 by shegoy

[mamosh]

I am going to issue a challenge to EVERY SINGLE PERSON who thinks that Marauders/ Sentinels are OP.

 

Roll either a Marauder or a Sentinel, and level them. Learn the class, the good, the bad, the ugly. Pvp A LOT. Solo ques, a group will wreck no matter what class you are, and lead to false results. Watch how many times you die. If you take this seriously, you WILL learn that Marauders and Sentinels can be countered. You will learn the limits of what they can and cannot do. Good players will take note of the class weaknesses, baddies will get stomped because of how complicated the class is. Either way, you learn that we are not these immortal gods of utter destruction.

 

If you do not take this challenge, and educate yourself, your opinions on these forums DO NOT MATTER because you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

FYI, most Marauders and Sentinels are currently Rage/ Focus specced. Take that into account with your accusations too.

 

did it done a wz as lv 10 came out top dmg killed ppl 2 vs 1 hmmmm

[Slipfeed]

Reading this thread I can't help but flash back to all the complaining about sages / sorcs.

 

When you die it's got to be a balance issue. When you win it can't be anything but you're pure skill.

 

You completely ignore the fact that you just got buffed, and most other classes just got nerfed because it does nothing for your sense of self centered pride.

 

So I guess you're just the average PvP MMORPG player.

 

Too bad bioware doesn't have the good sense to ignore these people, because no game can survive if their opinions have weight.

[Karkais]

Guys, they are really OP. Reps been loosing WZs for 10 hours today. Maras are so much more powerful than other classes they actualy overdamage anything atm and can tank just as well as jugs and when they take too much damage they just vanish. It's just insane, I've been trying to win 1 Wz for a whole day. Seriously, can we get some balancing done?

 

You genius DO realize that republics got Mara as well? Aka sentinel...

 

Marauders are NO reason for empire to be rolling over republic.. The reason is somewhere else altogether..

[LarryRow]

Just remove Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage and they are fine.

 

I'll do you one better: make the effect more visually obvious and I will be happy. By the time you realize your precious cooldown attacks are doing no damage, their 99% reduction is over. You can call me a bad, but I hate squinting at the buff/debuff bar.

[Technohic]

Look if there is anyone left that still doubts my statement that classes that get nerfed continue to get nerfed because of player migration, just look at what happened with Arsenal Mercs. Nerfed again in 1.2c. Sure BW can spin it as a bug fix, but if a bug fix that lowered dps was required for Mara/Sent, they certainly would have counterbalanced that with a buff elsewhere.

 

In fact it wouldn't surprise me a bit if melee dps got another round of buffs in 1.2.2. There are so many people rerolling as Mara/Sent and Assassin/Shadow that their average productivity numbers will be lower for many weeks as players climb the learning curve and go with poor gear. That's going to reduce average class productivity which BW will interpret as requiring a class buff.

 

The classes that are likely to get more nerfs? Healing Sorcs and healing BH. Almost no one plays those classes any more. The only ones left are top elite players who are stubborn. On my server I can count these players on a single hand. These are the players that were good enough to pump out 800k heals and now are down to 550k in a good match. But since they now constitute the entirety of their subclasses' population demographic, their subclass has outrageously high productivity compared to other subclasses. Hence the likelihood for more nerfs coming their way.

 

I'm not sure if you can take merc arsenal being nerfed again due to people leaving? This almost goes with the logic before that sorcs would not be nerfed because too many people played them and bioware didn't want to piss them off. Ask a sorc/sage how that went down.

 

I will say ironically; I am due to level my marauder. I did an assassin first, then my sniper and I have the marauder and Mercenary left to go and I thought getting the marauder to at least the end of chapter 2 to unlock the legacy buff would be cool for leveling the merc; but then I queued WZs and it has gotten worse. Marauders and sentinels are even more prevalent than anything I have seen through the life of this game yet. Just just see a thrashing of blades all over the place as the burn down races begin.

 

I think I am going to go against the grain now, and use my Merc healer. At least there is a role I can fill that doesn't already occupy half the team. Only problem is I see a train wreck approaching so another part of me wants to level my Mara before that happens.

[Onikcys]

Guys, they are really OP. Reps been loosing WZs for 10 hours today. Maras are so much more powerful than other classes they actualy overdamage anything atm and can tank just as well as jugs and when they take too much damage they just vanish. It's just insane, I've been trying to win 1 Wz for a whole day. Seriously, can we get some balancing done?

 

So what does this statement "Reps been loosing WZs for 10 hours today." have to do with this one "Guys, they are really OP." or this "I've been trying to win 1 Wz for a whole day." for that matter? Its not like the Republic doesn't have a mirror version of Maras or anything. I also, highly doubt that you've been playing nothing but teams and teams of nothing but marauders. If you do not win a single match in 10 hours its not class imbalance but stupidity on part of your team/faction on your server.

[nexusbob]

Yawn. Maras/ sents are only overpowered when played by good players against bad/average players. L2P before running to the forums with your tail between your legs crying for a nerf.

 

lol huu u play ar maras or sents u selv hehe man the ar total OP at thes point need to get neffbat real fast

[Tomashawk]

sorcs OP......bahahahahahah

[CharleyDanger]

Maybe Maras are OP, maybe not. Thats not the point! This thread means that there is still ppl out there that dont understand that both factions have the same classes. It makes my head hurt when ppl say a faction is OP. Its like saying your left foot is OP compared to your right.

[Barrgil]

sorcs OP......bahahahahahah

 

Wasn't people whining about this when the game launched and a bit after? Odd. Hmmm, maybe I can put together a list of what classes people whined about the last few months.

 

Launch - February : Sorcerers and Sages

February - March : Operatives and Scoundrels

March - Now : Marauders and Sentinels

Now - 1.3 : Snipers/Gunslingers?

1.3 -1.4 : All classes.

 

Yeah that's pretty much the cycle from what I can tell.