This game badly needs mods and macros.

[Kurnea]

I don't really see it as fighting the UI. You seem to want a different product presented. If you want movable, scaleable UI, few would disagree. If you want to dredge all the numbers from the behind the curtains and splash them into the foreground, then you are focusing the game more on the numbers and optimization and less on character and story. My sense is that they trying to promote a more seat-of-the-pants connection that let's your eyes and ears follow the "story" as opposed to just responding to numerical feedback.

 

My sense was that combat at least is still very much numbers oriented. Otherwise, why do we have all of this armor and weaponry that has different numbers on it? Why do we have the ability to make so many modifications to weaponry that has non-aesthetic purposes?

 

To me it seems like the same approach they've had in past games: Dialogue is where the story's at, which is where you get all of your dialogue choice, your companion reactions, etc. Killing stuff is still a numbers game, though, just like Dragon Age and Mass Effect.

[Basiliscus]

I just want some mouse over macros for healing, then I'm happy. Flashpoints arent so bad, since they are 4 person groups, but 8 and 16? Might need some there. Edited December 19, 2011 by Basiliscus

[Cylide]

This game needs a better UI customization, not mods and macros. Let me split, move, bend and fade the elements (bonus points to make them react to conditions) and I'm fine.

[DigitalPrime]

I dont mind the UI, a few options for resizing and maybe been able to move the windows and health bars around. But thats it really.

 

Macros... No, we dont need them. Learn to press the buttons yourself. Why would you want a line of code doing it for you?

[zootzoot]

I just want some mouse over macros for healing, then I'm happy.

 

Totally agree.

 

Mouseover Targetting added to the Interface.

Bartender like Hot Bars.

Unlock Unit Frames.

Customizable Buff/Debuff Icons.

Cooldown/Buff/Debuff Timer Text

Something other than Blue.

[Scelerant]

The thing with addons is that even when Blizz started implementing things from addons into the default interface I still used the addons because they were better. SCT > Blizzards in game combat text for instance. The makers of certain addons just do a better job than the company actually does itself.

[Rannasha]

To reach a level playing field, the average players need mods to help them compete with the superior players.

 

The superior players will learn to maximize their DPS and not pull aggro without DPS or threat mods. The mods help the inferior players compete.

 

How do you maximize your DPS without pulling aggro if you literally have no idea how capable a tank is? Sure, with your guild-tank you could get some feeling of how quick he picks things up after you've played together for some time. But even then you're at the mercy of the random number generator as he might miss some attacks or crit some.

 

The superior players do not have a sixth sense that allows them to see the threat table on a mob. The claim "I can DPS without pulling aggro even without a threat addon" can be directly translated into "I do bad DPS" (WoW in earlier times) or "Holding aggro is trivial for tanks" (WoW currently).

[zootzoot]

I dont mind the UI, a few options for resizing and maybe been able to move the windows and health bars around. But thats it really.

 

Macros... No, we dont need them. Learn to press the buttons yourself. Why would you want a line of code doing it for you?

 

I want Macros to save precious Hot Bar space.

[RodneyMcNeely]

This game needs a better UI customization, not mods and macros. Let me split, move, bend and fade the elements (bonus points to make them react to conditions) and I'm fine.

I would actually be okay with this. Personally, I love the LOOK of the UI, but I really wish the action bars were customizable.

 

Macros would be awesome, but I could find a way to live without them, I guess.

 

What would REALLY make my life better would be visual alerts for "on-proc" abilities (the Jedi Knight's Riposte, for example). Having a little glow pop up around the ability when it's ready would be WONDERFUL. Just something to distinguish those things from your other on-demand abilities. Visually, it would be awesome, and not the blur-fest it is now.

 

All in all, a great game, though.

[Jedi_Wannabe]

Mods and Macros are for people who don't have the ability to compete with the tools that the devs provide. They are a crutch for people who need their scripted boss encounters to be easymode so that they can claim they have 'x' boss or instance on farm.

 

I mostly agree. However, I find it ironic because I think it's the majority of the players that need the mods. It's like saying "Automobiles are a crutch for people who don't want to walk everywhere." or "Shoes are a crutch for people who don't have tough feet."

 

The game is playable without mods, but the majority of players will find their effectiveness increased with the mods. Some players will still avoid the luxuries out of principle, fear of viruses, or because their machine doesn't have the extra resources.

 

"Easymode" isn't even a factor. Playing the game on a computer at all could be considered easymode for players used to pen and paper or board type games. Everyone wants easymode to some degree.

 

Antone who doesn't want easymode should try playing with just their off hand and no keyboard.

[Cylide]

I want Macros to save precious Hot Bar space.

 

I always say that if two skills go together into a macro these are two badly designed skills. I've yet to run into a situation where I could macro two skills together except saberstrike on every other skills, but that's the game's design to have a mechanic like saberstrike instead of autoattack. An example of a very badly designed skillsystem would be RIFT where you have to rely on macros heavily because of the massive amount of skills.

[dlaselle]

I wouldn't say it's something that completely ruins the game. Especially not at launch. But if BioWare doesn't have it in the next patch, or heavily developing it for soon after, then it will be unbearable to play without Mods/Macros at max level.

 

Then go play Rift or WOW.

 

I played RIft since release about 9 months ago, and all my characters could be played with 3 buttons. I repeat that's 3

 

Button -> Solo Attack

Button 2 -> Area Attack

Button 3 -> Finishers

 

or if I was playing my Healer

 

2 Buttons

 

1. SIngle target heals and HOT

2. Area Heals

3. Battle REz if you had it

 

If that what you want is have all your skill macroed so you don't have to learn the game then go back to WOW.

[Cylide]

Then go play Rift or WOW.

 

I played RIft since release about 9 months ago, and all my characters could be played with 3 buttons. I repeat that's 3

 

Button -> Solo Attack

Button 2 -> Area Attack

Button 3 -> Finishers

 

That's what I was talking about. There's just such a heavy skillboat in that game. I don't see this in TOR.

[Lagmonster]

I'd just be happy if they fixed the Op health bar frames. Half the time in war zones peoples health bars will not change at all. Kind of hard to heal people when it always says their at 100% health. Know I'm done healing war zones till they fix it

[MrObsession]

The problem that I have with no addons for dps or threat is that I have no benchmark for how well I'm doing or whether my rotation is any good. I have done a number of heroics encounters so far and I have honestly no idea how I'm doing. Since I have no idea how I'm doing, I don't know how I can improve.

 

Right now, the only benchmark that I have is whether the enemy dies before any or all of the players die.

 

That's simply not good enough for serious players.

 

The only way SWTOR gets around the need for these types of addons is by dumbing down the content to where you really don't need to know this information to succeed. And if that is the case, serious players won't be around to need those addons anyway.

[NoxiousAlby]

I sorely underestimated just how poor the UI would turn out. It is so uncustomizable it isn't funny. Health bars, buffs, debuffs, and the power bar are all WAY too small. You can't move or resize anything, I HATE having the chat box up the top.

 

Not having a damage meter or even a freaking combat log is ridiculous. Why shouldn't we even know how much damage we're doing? I want to know what the best rotation is for my character and I have absolutely no way of working that out.

 

Macros are a staple in every MMO, how can you just not have them? There's a nice focus target but it's practically useless without focus macros.

 

These should be top priority for the next patch.

 

Honestly i'm tired of games where players macro multiple attack routines, warlocks were a classic point in case. where within a few seconds you had half a dozen curses/debuffs on your character turning the situation into a joke. I'd be happy to see no macros...find an attack routine and use it.

 

As for mods as long as they are developed in game I have no issue with it, dont want out of game mods. And thats my 2 cents worth

[Seether]

Completely agree - if you need macros then you don't have the eye hand coordination required to play this game competitively. One key press/button push for each ability used levels the playing field for all. There are no viable arguments against this. None. I have read all the arguments for macros on this forum for the last 6 months or so and have never seen one that explains why they are necessary. Because they are not. How do I know this for fact you might ask? Because tens of thousands of gamers have successfully played this game over the last 5 days and have enjoyed it enough to come back and do it all again the next day. All without the use of macros.

 

Macros are a luxury and luxuries do not make you a better gamer. They make you a lazy gamer and lazy gamers become less skilled gamers over time. People who consider themselves hardcore gamers should absolutely loath macros because of this.

 

As for UI improvements - they are on the way. But to say that the UI to date is a game breaker or "garbage" is pure hyperbole . If you don't like the game as is then fine. There are many of us who love the game the way it is and are looking foreward to whatever Bioware has planned. And yes I realise my rant was not hyperbole free Thanks for reading . . .

 

/end rant

 

This is 100% accurate.

 

Why did Bioware waste time designing all of these abilities if they are just going to be macroed together. Might as well just redesign the power system to only include 1-3 pushable buttons that do what everyone needs them to do in order to play the game.

 

I hope they realize that if they enable Addons and Macros they will quickly make the BOTTING much easier to create/do for SWTOR, and we all know how much we love BOTS....

[Matte_Black]

My sense was that combat at least is still very much numbers oriented. Otherwise, why do we have all of this armor and weaponry that has different numbers on it? Why do we have the ability to make so many modifications to weaponry that has non-aesthetic purposes?

 

To me it seems like the same approach they've had in past games: Dialogue is where the story's at, which is where you get all of your dialogue choice, your companion reactions, etc. Killing stuff is still a numbers game, though, just like Dragon Age and Mass Effect.

 

I am not saying the game will ever be devoid of numbers. They just seem to have drawn lines at certain points to retain a certain type of experience. They mostly try to keep the numbers and data pulled back away from your active field of view. You could even shut of the damage values coming off the combatants.

 

When you are actually playing out the story, the amount of additional information is decreased, especially in the cut scenes. When you stop to re-equip, train, shop or what have you, then your sort of open the hood and more of ther numbers are there but, they seem to want you to forget the numbers while actually truly playing.

 

I am fairly certain that they restrict control of the UI for this "directorial" reason of trying to enhance your immersion into the virtual activities of the story over the mechanics of the game.

[ironix]

For all of you people saying macros will ruin the game, I don't think you understand what a macro does.

 

As an operative medic, I need to dps and heal people in the group, mostly the tank. If I could have a simple mouseover or target-of-target healing macro, I could dps the boss and heal the tank without having to look at the bottom of the screen, click on the tank, heal, look up, find the mob he's tanking, tab or click on the mob, dps, look down, see the tank is dying, click the tank, heal the tank, look up... You see where I'm going with this.

 

The way the UI is setup right now, I am stuck staring at the bottom of the screen most of the time. When I'm not staring at the bottom of the screen (i.e. to heal group mates), I may not notice my health or a debuff on myself and die, thereby wiping the group.

 

I don't see how adding the ability for me to heal a mob's target so I can more easily dps that mob would break the game or make it somehow unfair to people. As it stands right now, the current UI is a nightmare for us healers. I came into this game rather enjoying the role I chose, but as I get to a higher and higher level, I'm finding the UI is one of the major barriers to my enjoyment of this game. It is simply making healing less fun.

 

EDIT: And some of you people wonder why you have difficulty finding healers for your flashpoints.

Edited December 19, 2011 by ironix

[NoxiousAlby]

Right now, the only benchmark that I have is whether the enemy dies before any or all of the players die.

 

That's simply not good enough for serious players.

 

The only way SWTOR gets around the need for these types of addons is by dumbing down the content to where you really don't need to know this information to succeed. And if that is the case, serious players won't be around to need those addons anyway.

 

Is this the same serious players advertising for healers to do Heroic quests? makes me laugh, i've done them all upto lvl35 and yet to be in a group with a healer I dont find it necessary. Flashpoints thats another story all together

 

As for serious players not being around because the difficulty level doesnt cater to them for once....meh. I'm loving the game for the story at this point, and plan to level every character just to experience it all. It's far to early to talk about getting serious

[ironwillaa]

I'm with the people who think the UI is not "horrible, game-breaking, 2000 era" etc etc. It's amazing to see the amount of whine on these forums, I think I am going to avoid them to not dampen my own level of enjoyment of the game yeesh!

 

Macros are terrible, I'm ok with simple UI mods but I hate what macros did to Rift. I too played it for a good long while and was doing Raids and T2s all the time and my tank was played with 3 macro buttons as others have said and I was super effective and viewed as a "good" player because of it but it took almost ZERO skill. I don't understand why the hardcore players would ever want macros, it makes playing your character properly stupid simple and takes away from any skill in my opinion.

 

I like having to challenge myself with the content and I hope they keep macros out of this game entirely. Would love to never see add-ons either that ruin the game's economy (Auctioneer anyone???).

 

Sure, improve the UI and allow us to customize the layout and scaling etc like you can do in LOTRO and other games, but I would love to never see macros added.

[Gazzzenn]

The issues with this game go far beyond the UI being garbage. They nerfed the heck out of the mod system, it is a shell of it's former self. Other issues are the fact you can't turn off the blah blah blah cut scenes and just get your mission in a couple of clicks, instead you have to hit space bar 20 times.

 

After you play the game for a month or so you will see just how bad it gets, they have a lot of work to do if they want to keep 70% of the people who bought the game as long term customers.

 

i completly disagree, it's one of the things i like about the game, if you want fast clicking no nonesence interaction stick with wow, the feel that game has now is mindnumbingly boring, people have been complaining for years about the lack of interaction in that game the lack of a great many things, not really feeling like your part of the story.

 

see deathwing, your just along for the ride, the aspects and thrall take care of him and your role in it is barely even a thought to them.

 

now see star wars your in the cut scenes your in the game your part of the conversations you shape the outcome albiet in a small way.

 

the ui from a visual perspective is fine, could do with some tweeks. mods and addons would be nice though, but i think some are overestimating the need for healing addons or deadly boss mod style addons, damage meters are pretty pointless in the wrong hands in the right hands assuming having them would make the slightest difference to the outcome of a battle wouldn't tell you that much anyway.

 

rotations, i can't really see one yet for any class, doesn't mean they aren't there....just saying i can't see one, i use abilities as needed it's like having a tool kit and knowing what they all do helps more than a rotation will right now, knowing which abilities stun/do the highest damage for finishers and which mobs to deal with first, at level 8 i went to one of the heroic starter zones...worked out the best way to kill sadun was to zerg the engineers to prevent them from mind controlling droids..making it rather easy, now knowing what stuns and cc you have is more valuable at that point than a rotation or mod/damage meter.

 

the end game from what i've seen isn't going to be 1 boss sat in a giant room...sorry but if it is i'll be miffed beyond words, multiple adds all over the place turrets to deal with and placement will take a higher priority than a rotation, crowd control and stuns will be the norm, that means we don't need bosses with 90 million health...oh what fun they are.

 

if your expecting a reskined wow to play then honestly go do a mod that does just that, most were expecting a heavily story driven game from bioware and thats what we got.

[Fredcat]

UI Mods yes, macros and logs definitely no. I've seen this too many times before. Once they allow macros you got bots and mindless easymod game play. The games not the least bit difficult to begin with, no need to take the human element out of it.

 

And the logs are nothing but trouble. Once you have them it leads to templates. Some geek micro-manager number cruncher will insist unless you use what they deem the most powerful build and macro what they perceive as the perfect casting order they will say you suck, might not even let you on a raid. No thanks, I hope SWTOR never caters to those players, they make raiding suck, more of a job or a chore then an activity that's supposed to be fun.

[CandiMynx]

The UI definitely needs work, but the game doesn't need add ons, or mods or macros. Anyone who needs them has no business hoisting themselves above other players. For god's sake just enjoy the f****** game for what it is. These forums have enough "I'm from WoW and WoW had this I want this make it like WoW!" crap glutting the pages.

 

While I generally agree that the game does not need extensive mod bloating or anything like that, when it comes to peoples' statements about macros being bad... Sorry, but skill has nothing to do with me thinking having to hit a Relic, Cooldown, and ability every 2 minutes and finding it tedious. Yes, it's something I will do if I'm trying to max out my DPS during a tough boss fight or something. I don't think you can make a sane argument for a hassle being 'skilled'. I know, that separates me from the noobs, or the baddies from the goods, etc, etc, etc, but still, low level macro stuff like that (or specific target macros, things to help mouseover healing, etc) isn't necessarily bad. Macros that do TOO much automated are bad, of course. If they added macro support, they can fully control what their macro language is capable of.

 

Again, your points are valid, but you might self-reflect on that last paragraph and realize it could be aimed right back to you.

[Buur]

 

Sure, improve the UI and allow us to customize the layout and scaling etc like you can do in LOTRO and other games, but I would love to never see macros added.

 

Why do you hate macros? Is there some valid reason cause honestly I can't understand the macro hate.