Commando now worst class?

[Redcorn]

Scoundrel is worse than Commando. Don't even start saying this kind of thing after one minor nerf (and I play a Merc, I'm not just spouting nonsense). My Scoundrel has been nerfed way harder, calm the eff down.

 

 

I know little about the scoundrel. How has it been nerfed? From a healing stand point I hear they are the cats meow. If they chain stun and burn one down like the stealthing operative I see little to complain about......but again I really know nothing about the scoundrel...only hearsay.

[ArchangelLBC]

If you need a 60 second CC for trash pulls you are doing something wrong.

 

not every boss battle is a DPS race? Which one is not up against an enrage timer? It only gets worse as you move on to nightmare mode.

 

Most needed 'skill' as utility is interrupt....which we don't have. Your right...others have interrupts and they have heals...and they have cc...and they have range DPS...and they have better DPS

 

You have the logs and the dummies now...go crunch some numbers.

 

I am not saying that you cannot complete content with a commando on your team. I am saying that the content will be much easier with a DPS vanguard, sage, gunslinger, etc.

 

 

The fact that its 60 seconds when you might only need it for 30-45 seconds depending on the pull does not diminish it's utility in the slightest. I dunno about you, but we usually CC creature handlers in KP before engaging their pets in the outdoors section before Bonethrasher, and the Organics in the droid pulls in the indoor sections before and after Fabricator Droid (ironically one of the fights where the knockback can be said to have some sort of limited utility as you can push back stun droids out of range of your raid and then never bother with them again).

 

Just in the APPROACH to the first boss of EC being able to put a mob to sleep, and to be able to do so in combat, is pretty helpful overall to the raid since every pull is several champions with gold friends, and then it turns out there were a bunch of golds stealthed as well (which hey, our stealth scan is actually mildly useful, especially when the stealthers just keep repeatedly dropping out of stealth, hitting, and restealthing).

 

So yeah, that 60 second CC is pretty useful, and if the current trash is a sign of things to come, it will continue to be useful. Also, I dunno how you do bonethrasher but we tend to just lift or sleep the cats, but this can be broken by Bonethrasher himself, so having someone who can reapply it makes things much more manageable.

 

 

As far as bosses not DPS races, again Soa's transition phases come very much to mind, and again while I can't speak much to EC, Toth and Zorn are at least as much a race to keep the raid up as they are to bring the mobs down and the occasional off heal can give your healer the breathing room they need, especially if you make it an instant cast.

 

 

Your "most needed skill" is one that is completely useless on several of the boss fights. It comes to the fore right now on Jarg and Sorno, but most everything else either doesn't have anything you could interrupt.

 

I'll admit I haven't bothered going through the forums searching to see if other classes posted parses on the various raid bosses, or even on training dummies, and if you have links feel free to share, but otherwise if you don't have hard numbers to back it up, the little I've seen of other classes parses (i.e. parses I've actually seen, not people's claim of a parse they heard about) leads me to believe we aren't currently suffering in the DPS department.

 

Again, I'm not seeing how we were a liability before, I don't see how a raid magically becomes easier with a sage or a gunslinger in our spot, and atm it just seems that you're determined to be an utter pessimist to anyone trying to just keep playing the class they like to play.

 

I get it, you're ticked at what happened and you're gonna play something else (or you could be a troll I guess?). If you want to play a different class then Godspeed, and no one here really questions why you'd wanna do that, but I just don't see why you have to keep up the negative attitude about a class you've left behind. Let it go dude. To be honest some sort of ill-founded knee jerk mentality among the community that Commandos aren't viable anymore (and apparently never were) will kill the class much faster than any nerf by BW ever could.

[AzKnc]

Dps commandos are probably the worst class in pvp, no doubt about it, dmg is decent but they have no interrupt which is ***, and 0 survivability. As pvp healers they're fine on par with scoundrels, but suffer from a horrible lack of tools when compared to sorcs.

[NDiggy]

Having now played for a couple hours PvPing since 1.2 came out.

 

I have to say I think there are a lot of clueless players in these forums. Im a gunnery commando and I can get 250k plus damage in warzones and 10 plus medals.

 

Sure I had to change my rotation as the damage has shifted a bit. This I think is the primary problem, those complaining are single button mashers and can no longer just spam Grav round.

 

Im not a BW fan by any stretch and when the patch came out I sat at work reading the Commando forum and thought, dam it would appear commandos have been nerfed into the ground.

 

Well, its simple not the fact at all. All its done it highlight that Commandos were an easy class to play and therefore many of the clueless players gravitated towards the class.

 

Now as a commando you have to be aware of what buffs have procced and what damage ability to use in the right situation, the clueless are now completely stuffed and on the hunt for another one button mashing class for the win.

 

Commando DPS is fine, just now you have to use your brain to achieve the high numbers that were easier to get prior to 1.2

 

Just out of curiosity, how exactly has your rotation changed?

Edited April 14, 2012 by NDiggy

[Secured]

i don't know why you all focus on the numbers that pop up at the end of a warzone.

 

the true problem with the commandos is, that they are unbeliavably boring to play (at least gunnery). and there's not much they can do to change that, unless adding/changing a mountain of skills.

 

i'm a valor 81 commando and i like playing healer (no, not in 1.2....) and i like the assault tree, but it's really frustrating if an assault specced vanguard does up to double your dmg with just a few skills that differ from your rotation.... i feel kinda betrayed.

 

good thing i have a guardian. more fun, i feel much more useful and if i die or if i'm not able to kill something, i can see where i failed...

Edited April 14, 2012 by Secured

[Daiyukie]

I know little about the scoundrel. How has it been nerfed? From a healing stand point I hear they are the cats meow. If they chain stun and burn one down like the stealthing operative I see little to complain about......but again I really know nothing about the scoundrel...only hearsay.

 

I love Scoundrel healing with the recent changes/buff, for sure. It's still not possible to save someone being focused down, which is fine, but also far from OP. I can tank 4 bads by myself, but two interrupts and I'm basically ****ed, which is again fine. And no, the Scoundrel cannot stun lock and burst someone down, it just doesn't happen unless the stars align and everything crits really hard all in a row, which is the same for ANY class. Problem is, any other class can also kill pretty well without the stars aligning whereas Scoundrel Scrappers can't.

 

Dps commandos are probably the worst class in pvp, no doubt about it, dmg is decent but they have no interrupt which is ***, and 0 survivability. As pvp healers they're fine on par with scoundrels, but suffer from a horrible lack of tools when compared to sorcs.

 

Commandos are far from the worst class in PvP, what are you smoking? 0 survivability, yet you get heals and strongest passive mitigation. Melee force users who interrupt Tracer/Grav are good against Commando/Merc, other than that with the recent buff, Commando melts faces even harder. I completely fail to see what you're complaining about, especially DPS-wise.

[AzKnc]

As to surviving, sure you wont last if focused, however you should be able to escape any situation should you use the skills given to you. Like Concussion, Concussive Round, try using a self heal.

 

Your credibility just got ferociously murdered.

 

A commando won't escape from anyone, ever. Unless a) It's huttball and it's a class with no charge, pull, speed b) Pursuers give up after 5 meters cause they don't actually want to chase you for more than 3 seconds c) He gets help and chasers get killed/retreat.

[AzKnc]

- random senseless stuff -

 

Dps commandos are a free kill for whoever wants to get it, and that's a fact. Everything you said on commandos is borderline fiction.

Edited April 15, 2012 by AzKnc

[crazyblackguy]

Lol @ troopers crying about their first nerf....

 

 

Good thing none of you rolled a concealment operative/scrapper scoundrel lawl!

[oakamp]

Lol @ troopers crying about their first nerf....

 

 

Good thing none of you rolled a concealment operative/scrapper scoundrel lawl!

 

so is commando worth to play after 1.2 ? in pvp

and in HM OPs.

[Daiyukie]

Dps commandos are a free kill for whoever wants to get it, and that's a fact. Everything you said on commandos is borderline fiction.

 

Lol. So you saying "No, you're wrong!" is your entire argument eh? Bravo. Hitting like a truck consistently and sustainably is not gimp at all. You have a ROLE and it is Hard Hitting Turret. I'm sorry you can't stand in front of melee and blast them down easily, that's just how it is. Anything that's NOT right in front of you and keeping you locked down is going to die FAST.

 

I still fail to see what you're complaining about, please enlighten me. But since you think me stating that Commandos get heals and great damage mitigation is fiction, I don't even know if you can come up with something reasonable o.0

Edited April 15, 2012 by Daiyukie

[Aaoogaa]

Lol. So you saying "No, you're wrong!" is your entire argument eh? Bravo. Hitting like a truck consistently and sustainably is not gimp at all. You have a ROLE and it is Hard Hitting Turret. I'm sorry you can't stand in front of melee and blast them down easily, that's just how it is. Anything that's NOT right in front of you and keeping you locked down is going to die FAST.

 

I still fail to see what you're complaining about, please enlighten me. But since you think me stating that Commandos get heals and great damage mitigation is fiction, I don't even know if you can come up with something reasonable o.0

 

In another post you wrote:

 

I haven't really touched my Merc since 1.2

 

..and yet you are the "expert" on how commando is playing since 1.2. Glad to know you got things down.

[Daiyukie]

In another post you wrote:

 

 

 

..and yet you are the "expert" on how commando is playing since 1.2. Glad to know you got things down.

 

"Haven't really touched" meaning "not my main", as in it's inverted from pre-1.2 where the Scoundrel was the alt and the Merc was the main. ~35 Warzones on Scoundrel and ~15 on Merc. In none of those did I feel gimped at all, and you're still resorting to ad hominem attacks instead of, you know, presenting an argument.

 

I'll say it again, I fail to see what you're complaining about, please enlighten me.

[Aaoogaa]

"Haven't really touched" meaning "not my main", as in it's inverted from pre-1.2 where the Scoundrel was the alt and the Merc was the main. ~35 Warzones on Scoundrel and ~15 on Merc. In none of those did I feel gimped at all, and you're still resorting to ad hominem attacks instead of, you know, presenting an argument.

 

I'll say it again, I fail to see what you're complaining about, please enlighten me.

 

I'm not complaining...1.2 gunnery is a clear step up from 1.2 combat medic....you must be thinking of someone else. Gunnery is by far the better spec currently...although I am gearing a guardian for rated because as the level of the competition increases the level of output from gunnery goes down. Fighting poor players isn't the measure of the class fighting good teams of a warrior/maruader/powertech means you are fighting a team with repeated and constant interrupts...these will be the classes mainly played in rated and when played well can shut down a gunnery commando for 20-30 seconds...long enough to be dead in pvp. Yes we have a role, and no it isn't useless. However, other classes can fill the role of burst dps much better in a team environment.

[Daiyukie]

I'm not complaining...1.2 gunnery is a clear step up from 1.2 combat medic....you must be thinking of someone else. Gunnery is by far the better spec currently...although I am gearing a guardian for rated because as the level of the competition increases the level of output from gunnery goes down. Fighting poor players isn't the measure of the class fighting good teams of a warrior/maruader/powertech means you are fighting a team with repeated and constant interrupts...these will be the classes mainly played in rated and when played well can shut down a gunnery commando for 20-30 seconds...long enough to be dead in pvp. Yes we have a role, and no it isn't useless. However, other classes can fill the role of burst dps much better in a team environment.

 

Well you both have the same profile pic and a name that starts with A, I was just assuming same responder. Anyway, Commando has both great burst and great sustain, which is why they're so powerful. You clearly agree with me that any good melee class with proper interrupt capability is going to lock you down and make life difficult, but you're talking about an organized team and being smacked 3v1. If you have 2 healers healing you up as you counter-attack, you'll be fine, because this scenario of a team environment with skilled teams you've created works both ways =p I should hope that you get killed 3v1, but if you mean Warrior OR Marauder OR Powertech, that's basically what I said, you won't be able to stand there and melt their face in melee range, that's how it's supposed to be.

 

In an organized team, I would certainly want at least one Gunnery DPS behind the melee lines adding their great damage output to the fray, that's exactly their role. If melee gets on you, YOUR melee should jump on them as well, or you should be getting healed, or both, or whatever it is your team has decided is the best course of action. Like many have said, the game isn't balanced around 1v1. Melee control classes are the only thing that are dangerous to a Gunnery Commando.

[fongers]

Commandos aren't intended to be a fantastic frontline class in PvP. We're artillery. We stand behind the frontlines and lay down the hurt. If our teammates let dedicated frontline classes close on us we'll always be at a disadvantage. That's the price we pay for our ability to deal maximum damage at 30m.

 

IMO our range also gives us a bit of a utility edge over melee DPS classes in PvE content. We get knocked down or knocked back, we can get right back up and keep dealing damage. Melee DPS classes have to close the gap again. Sure they have gap closers but in the time it takes a vanguard to storm we're already halfway through our rotations.

[Zethrion]

OP nope sorc/sage is

[Lexb]

"I used to be a commando like you, but then I took a nerf in the knee".

[Daiyukie]

Commandos aren't intended to be a fantastic frontline class in PvP. We're artillery. We stand behind the frontlines and lay down the hurt. If our teammates let dedicated frontline classes close on us we'll always be at a disadvantage. That's the price we pay for our ability to deal maximum damage at 30m.

 

IMO our range also gives us a bit of a utility edge over melee DPS classes in PvE content. We get knocked down or knocked back, we can get right back up and keep dealing damage. Melee DPS classes have to close the gap again. Sure they have gap closers but in the time it takes a vanguard to storm we're already halfway through our rotations.

 

See, you understand the class role. Thank you.

[Merc_Cmdr]

See, you understand the class role. Thank you.

 

So the class role is, if anyone attacks you, you lose?

 

Yeah pass on that class.

[Krysha]

So the class role is, if anyone attacks you, you lose?

 

Yeah pass on that class.

 

Just keeps those leg muscles warmed up so you can leg it at the first sign of a confrontation and you'll be alright. If need be strip your armor off, this allows for maximum speed!

[Lexb]

Actually i`m only logging to roleplay i'm a commando and to receive tells about how nice is my bright new WH useless armor.

 

Btw, i already played nude a few WZs, and the time to die is about the same. So why prevent ppl to admire my big and full of muscles body just to show them an useless armor?

Edited April 16, 2012 by Lexb

[Daiyukie]

So the class role is, if anyone attacks you, you lose?

 

Yeah pass on that class.

 

Did you... read his post? o.0 At all?

 

I'm very sorry that you all want to dominate solo and not be part of a team, but the tradeoff for huge damage at 30m is not being able to just stand there through a melee beating on you and shrug it off. Really sorry about that. Make some friends, get healed, get your favorite neighbourhood Shadow to come wail on them. -Anyone- helping you out is going to give you openings to put the pain right back on the melee. Hence the I in team. Or, wait.... where is it?

[fongers]

The melee Force-using classes are a bit unbalanced at the moment but I think another issue that's hurting ranged classes is the design of the WZs. I'm finding there's just not a lot of great places in any of the WZs where I can stand and lay down fire without being overly noticeable and easy to reach.

 

An ideal firing location for me is the top balcony area on both sides of the middle turret in the Alderaan WZ. It's elevated so I can see and reach most targets around the turret but there's pillars and a low wall that let me break LOS when I need to and make me less noticeable. If you look at the two side turrets, there's nothing like that. As a defender, the raised platform offers no visual cover and actually makes it easy for targets to break LOS by just dropping off the side. As an attacker, I'm easily spotted by defenders and without a speed buff, gap closer, or stealth it takes too long to find cover around the turrets.

 

I've never played WoW so I don't know how PvP maps are set up there but I think if Bioware created WZs that had more of a vertical element (like the catwalks in Huttball) and less wide open spaces it would make ranged classes more survivable without having to nerf or buff anyone. Wide open spaces make it too easy for melee classes to just walk up to ranged classes and start swinging. More vertical space would make it harder for melee to burn us down immediately. Right now, I can activate concussion charge or stockstrike to create a bit of space but since I'm standing on flat ground my opponent can just run back to me again. If I was on some sort of vertical ledge, I could knock them back after they use a gap closer and they'd have to find another way to reach me.

[SeloDaoC]

Did you... read his post? o.0 At all?

 

I'm very sorry that you all want to dominate solo and not be part of a team, but the tradeoff for huge damage at 30m is not being able to just stand there through a melee beating on you and shrug it off. Really sorry about that. Make some friends, get healed, get your favorite neighbourhood Shadow to come wail on them. -Anyone- helping you out is going to give you openings to put the pain right back on the melee. Hence the I in team. Or, wait.... where is it?

 

So why does melee have loads of gap closers? If were "supposed" to bring everything down at range, why is it so extremly easy for melee to get to you? and why is it impossible to get away?

 

Im not saying i should win 1v1 vs all, but its way way to easy for melee to lock a gunnery commando down.