Operative PvP Nerfs LAWL

[Bazzoong]

Thread was interesting, and for those people who are interested in crit, surge, power min/max...

 

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/Thread-SWTOR-formula-list

 

Graphs

 

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/attachment.php?aid=251

 

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/attachment.php?aid=282

 

NB: Apparently there is no diminishing return on Power.

 

The new stat to max out is expertise, period. Going for 10% crit multiplier increase over approx. 125 expertise will put you at a severe disadvantage against a player who does it the other way around.

Anything below 1k expertise will be suicide, when facing players with full expertise gear especially if it comes to classes which can heal.

 

I recommend not to cut down on expertise and wait until you get WH gear before you go for surge (WH gear actually has some surge mods so strip them out and use them on all your gear, I would prioritize this over getting the full WH set since a lot of the pieces are actually a down grade from BM gear).

[GetRectified]

"My heart is *********** pounding" is the nerdiest thing I've ever heard regarding a video game duel...

[manlysnowball]

The new stat to max out is expertise, period. Going for 10% crit multiplier increase over approx. 125 expertise will put you at a severe disadvantage against a player who does it the other way around.

Anything below 1k expertise will be suicide, when facing players with full expertise gear especially if it comes to classes which can heal.

 

I recommend not to cut down on expertise and wait until you get WH gear before you go for surge (WH gear actually has some surge mods so strip them out and use them on all your gear, I would prioritize this over getting the full WH set since a lot of the pieces are actually a down grade from BM gear).

 

I was thinking around 1200 exp (drop off point imo, if very mild one), 450 crit (Slow but relatively linear increase), 200-250 Surge (sharp drop-off here) and the rest ine Cunning or Power.

 

Ill only be taking some of my Enhancements out of my gear problem is I don't think I'm even close to 1200 yet with only a few BM peices left to get. So I'm going to get stuck with alot of accuracy

 

:*(

[vimm]

A stealth ambusher (ganker) is not a team dynamic archetype. It is designed for ganking.

 

If you can still do that you still have a working character.

 

Even a 31 concealment spec'd operative can heal people well, and clear DoTs and Debuffs. I always get at least 100k healing - I just can't resist using my heals, lol.

[Vaipyr]

I was a WOW Rogue and a VERY good one.

 

This always happens when a game first comes out, Burst classes get the nerf because underskilled players that don't understand game MECH complain that they get killed. They get it right after a while but it takes time.

 

Rogue =/= very good. Gank classes are just that, gank classes. They aren't skilled, they aren't cool. They're just gankers. Be invisible until someone is vunerable then pow pow stun prevent them from taking any action gank dead. Move on to the next one. Yawn.

 

Damage ops needed the nerfs. Healer ops didn't. Damage ops can still cheese their way into ganks as always. Hide, wait for someone to drop below 75% hp, appear stunlock gank lawl spit teabag move on thinking you're hot ****.

 

Yup, I have an op too (and a rogue in wow). You don't roll one for skill, you roll one to faceroll people and make them send you rage whispers so you can screenshot them and *** your epeen about it.

[Airoper]

l2p i loled when you said duel comp, a self healing class in a duel comp for 1v1 come on please that takes no skill to run kite heal slowly burn them down while you heal 10 full HP bars.

 

ive dueled you ops you are skillless im a immortal juggg & i burn 6-8 of you hp bars b4 you wear me down over 3-5min

fyi if you can self heal you dont belong in duels or WZ for that matter what a waste of space

[CoffeeAdict]

Rogue =/= very good. Gank classes are just that, gank classes. They aren't skilled, they aren't cool. They're just gankers. Be invisible until someone is vunerable then pow pow stun prevent them from taking any action gank dead. Move on to the next one. Yawn.

 

Damage ops needed the nerfs. Healer ops didn't. Damage ops can still cheese their way into ganks as always. Hide, wait for someone to drop below 75% hp, appear stunlock gank lawl spit teabag move on thinking you're hot ****.

 

Yup, I have an op too (and a rogue in wow). You don't roll one for skill, you roll one to faceroll people and make them send you rage whispers so you can screenshot them and *** your epeen about it.

 

So you are saying it takes no skill whatso ever to play concealment/scrapper? Rofls because spamming gravround or tracer missle is soooooooo difficult.

 

The opening rotation for a concealment ops or scrapper isnt tricky, knowing who to attack, when to open up, trying to run away, and tryin to survive when you get focused is tricky

[manlysnowball]

Rogue =/= very good. Gank classes are just that, gank classes. They aren't skilled, they aren't cool. They're just gankers. Be invisible until someone is vunerable then pow pow stun prevent them from taking any action gank dead. Move on to the next one. Yawn.

 

Damage ops needed the nerfs. Healer ops didn't. Damage ops can still cheese their way into ganks as always. Hide, wait for someone to drop below 75% hp, appear stunlock gank lawl spit teabag move on thinking you're hot ****.

 

Yup, I have an op too (and a rogue in wow). You don't roll one for skill, you roll one to faceroll people and make them send you rage whispers so you can screenshot them and *** your epeen about it.

 

Taking the bait here tbh but every class has an if/then collapsing decision tree. Ops are most effective doing what you say, but especially with the restealth bug, which still happens, it's not always a case of stealth mash stab stealth etc. etc.

 

Couple that with the fact that 50% of the WZ's now are a point stacking defend/attack affair it becomes a little trickier to first off drop somone without your stealth getting busted, then hope that no one is paying attention, because once our burst is gone thats all folks, then IF you get the kill off getting back into stealth w/o getting tagged or heaven forfend Force dotted.

 

And the skill isn't in getting a stunlock gank off, its getting them off all game.

[vimm]

Rogue =/= very good. Gank classes are just that, gank classes. They aren't skilled, they aren't cool. They're just gankers. Be invisible until someone is vunerable then pow pow stun prevent them from taking any action gank dead. Move on to the next one. Yawn.

 

Damage ops needed the nerfs. Healer ops didn't. Damage ops can still cheese their way into ganks as always. Hide, wait for someone to drop below 75% hp, appear stunlock gank lawl spit teabag move on thinking you're hot ****.

 

Yup, I have an op too (and a rogue in wow). You don't roll one for skill, you roll one to faceroll people and make them send you rage whispers so you can screenshot them and *** your epeen about it.

 

There are more effective and team-oriented ways of playing stealth classes, besides ganking. You're definitely not mad, though.

[SableShadow]

Yup, I have an op too (and a rogue in wow). You don't roll one for skill, you roll one to faceroll people and make them send you rage whispers so you can screenshot them and *** your epeen about it.

 

What happened to never rolling dps classes, just tanks?

[Smooth-Criminal]

Guys the new FOTM for Ops/Smugs will be LethalMed and DirtySaw learn how to do it or get replaced/reroll. I would rather have someone that can dish out 100+K Heals and 100+K deeps than some mindless Mara that gives me 300K deeps and nothing else.

 

There is a difference between LOLDPS and Quality DPS.

[Rapto]

Even after the string of damage nerfs, Ops/Sounds still put the most single target pressure out of any class. Can you blow people up like before? No. But thats fine, like many others mentioned this is a team game.

 

The quality operatives who take PvP seriously and have experience from previous MMOs will know the roll come Rated WZs will be calling targets, as you put out the most single target pressure with the shortest CCs with little ramp-up time needed to start your burst.

 

I agree Ops need some love in the utility department, being a shadowstep/knockback/sprint or a new mechanic, but a properly modded/enh maxed geared/half Rakata Op pre-1.2 was extremely bursty and was warranted a slight tone down.

[Remdo]

Guys the new FOTM for Ops/Smugs will be LethalMed and DirtySaw learn how to do it or get replaced/reroll. I would rather have someone that can dish out 100+K Heals and 100+K deeps than some mindless Mara that gives me 300K deeps and nothing else.

 

There is a difference between LOLDPS and Quality DPS.

 

I bet that mara is killing more healers or important targets than the lethal/med operative,

better excel in one are than be meh in two. Its not about the scoreboard in premade vs premade pvp.

 

..... unless you're only in it for the duels

[SableShadow]

but a properly modded/enh maxed geared/half Rakata Op pre-1.2 was extremely bursty and was warranted a slight tone down.

 

Then fix the problem, don't futz with the base class.

 

If "properly" is the problem, then "properly" ... isn't.

Edited April 13, 2012 by SableShadow

[Rapto]

Then fix the problem, don't futz with the base class.

 

If "properly" is the problem, then "properly" ... isn't.

 

Not sure if I 100% get your statement, but Bioware seemed to have designed this class purely around gear. Not sure how we'll pan out with full WH gear but have sub-standard gear? Don't even bother trying to play. Have above average gear? You'll tear things apart. Think Warriors in WoW.

 

Maybe you're right that bioware needs to design the class less around raw damage output and more utility based.

 

Funny how warriors in WoW are in the exact same situation as us right now (pure burst/little utility) and look how we'll they are doing right now ....

[FMLDestroyer]

I got no probs doing 5k's all day with back blast and shoot first

 

75% surge

30% crit

800 power

1150 exp

Edited April 13, 2012 by FMLDestroyer

[Otega]

No offense to you, but judging from that video the tanksin is pretty average at best. I'd like to know his build cause he doesn't seem to have a good understanding of his skillset.

[SableShadow]

Not sure if I 100% get your statement, but Bioware seemed to have designed this class purely around gear.

 

Exactly. Then nerf the gear, not the class.

 

Doing it the other way round is absurd, if you think about it for a little bit.

 

Maybe you're right that bioware needs to design the class less around raw damage output and more utility based.

 

I think there's actually a fair bit of utility, at least in PvP. I wouldn't mind some changes to the stealth mechanic, and I really think they should eliminate even the concept of a stealth opener.

Edited April 13, 2012 by SableShadow

[Ssfbistimg]

I watched that video, you arent bis for one thing, and your spec is wrong, why would you not get the 2 second heal with the free TA attached? Dont tell me its for the 15 second cd reduction on debilitate. 7/31/3 was CLEARLY the best spec for an op pre 1.2.

 

If you don't understand that I can see why you are QQing about the nerfs. You dont understand the class. Post 1.2 I still destroy full BM healers and sorcs have no choice but to run from me STILL.

 

SO what im trying to say is, don't go spouting bull about ''skill'' and calling people who dont understand BiS ''pigeons'' when you clearly lack the knowledge of how your class works and was getting by because were were simply overpowered and everyone knew it.

 

We still have no reason to lose 1v1 vs any class.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/docc2k

 

Somewhere in my videos I am dueling two BM tank sins, and a full bm/rakata merc.

Destroying them every time. We were OP.

 

lol im sorry but I have a sage and I would never run from you (unless i was out of force) You always have a choice. And my choice is killing or be killed. Yes you might beat me but you wont have much life left and my teammates will easily finish you off. So again any sorcerer running from you is just pathetic. I get Healers running away cause if there dead they cant heal but DPS sorcerers who run away are horrible.

[Ssfbistimg]

Guys the new FOTM for Ops/Smugs will be LethalMed and DirtySaw learn how to do it or get replaced/reroll. I would rather have someone that can dish out 100+K Heals and 100+K deeps than some mindless Mara that gives me 300K deeps and nothing else.

 

There is a difference between LOLDPS and Quality DPS.

 

obviously u dont play with good marauders. Cause I know Marauders who do 400k dps and 135K heals. Granted its all self heals but self heals help take pressure off your healers. So to say you would rather have someone doing 100k & 100k means i would not want to be on your team.

[manlysnowball]

Even after the string of damage nerfs, Ops/Sounds still put the most single target pressure out of any class. Can you blow people up like before? No. But thats fine, like many others mentioned this is a team game.

 

The quality operatives who take PvP seriously and have experience from previous MMOs will know the roll come Rated WZs will be calling targets, as you put out the most single target pressure with the shortest CCs with little ramp-up time needed to start your burst.

 

I agree Ops need some love in the utility department, being a shadowstep/knockback/sprint or a new mechanic, but a properly modded/enh maxed geared/half Rakata Op pre-1.2 was extremely bursty and was warranted a slight tone down.

 

Do you think its sensible that a class designed for burst has PvP specific gear that needs to be heavily tweaked to realise that potential?

 

This is what irritates me more about the class than the Conceal tree changes, most other classes can run thier tree specific gear and do fine, we have to tweak left right and centre to just do what were meant to.

 

I agree otherwise with your post.

[Rizael]

This is a little exaggerated with the issues from the changes in 1.2. I am pretty good 1v1 and rarely lost a duel if sober. The main issue now is energy, still not sure after one day but we are losing energy and not gaining it back at the same rate before the patch. Still can pretty much kill anyone at will but it requires almost perfect CC usage against good players. The margin for error is completely gone. The average operative is going to have trouble with concealment spec if they do not have a intimate knowledge of other classes abilities.

 

Also abilities seem to go on global cooldown randomly for no reason, that needs to be fixed.

 

and sssshhhh about explosive probe, very few use it. you are not supposed to teach the wutang!

 

Raist its the change in opener rotation for the energy difference since you probably don't backstab first and save it for 6 seconds. This boosts you below 60 much faster than before and hence your energy depletes MUCH faster. That coupled with the .5 /3 sec energy nerf leaves our energy in the pooper. Pretty much we have to use our rotation based on energy consumption as we no longer have "enough" to sustain our burst without planning it and CD balancing while TA balancing and managing stim boost while being squishy.

[netskink]

I watched that video, you arent bis for one thing, and your spec is wrong, why would you not get the 2 second heal with the free TA attached? Dont tell me its for the 15 second cd reduction on debilitate. 7/31/3 was CLEARLY the best spec for an op pre 1.2.

 

If you don't understand that I can see why you are QQing about the nerfs. You dont understand the class. Post 1.2 I still destroy full BM healers and sorcs have no choice but to run from me STILL.

 

SO what im trying to say is, don't go spouting bull about ''skill'' and calling people who dont understand BiS ''pigeons'' when you clearly lack the knowledge of how your class works and was getting by because were were simply overpowered and everyone knew it.

 

We still have no reason to lose 1v1 vs any class.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/docc2k

 

Somewhere in my videos I am dueling two BM tank sins, and a full bm/rakata merc.

Destroying them every time. We were OP.

 

If there is one and only one skill tree set that enables competitive play then the class has been nerfed too much. Not everyone reads forums or google min/max pages.

 

I would imagine 9/10 people login and play. I know from the people I play with, I am the only one who reads anything about swtor online. They don't read forums and they don't even know BiS or expertise caps. If the game requires only one set of skill picks why even have skill picks? Its just causing frustration for the average joe.

[Trauglodyte]

I play my class and I know how to do everything just like you do. I dont know why you think I am a noob. I am just saying our powertech is pumpin 500-600k on voidstar still and I can barely hit 350k....

 

We are playing against like rated quality teams, with taunts and guards... Not some random pug noobs with 12k health and stuff like that, yes I can still 2v1 baddies, but I could do that on any class!

 

That's because your powertech is using Death From Above nad Flame Wreath on stack doors and you're focusing on single targets. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know why that is.

[Thoop]

Well now you can pick a PvP class and learn to play.

 

this, because we all know how ops are EZ GOD mode in nightmare ops raids, err wait........