A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

[PostalTwinkie]

^Words of Wisdom^

 

The main reasons Healers are upset about 1.2 is the fact they are killable now in 1v1

 

This is one of the major reasons healers are upset and the point I am trying to make! As I explained in my previous post in a 1 v 1 a Healer shouldn't die to a DPS, and a DPS shouldn't die to a Healer! If the game was balanced they would effectively cancel each other out at maximum efficiency. Meaning if a DPS and a Healer were in a 1 v 1 and both putting out 100% of their respective potential, they would indefinitely be engaged. The opposite of DPS is Healing!

 

In the above example what would break that deadlock would be individual player skill, the person who makes the first mistake (missing a CD or spell) would end up losing! Instead of this we have DPS who of any skill level can simply explode a healer in 1 v 1. This isn't balance!

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/balance

 

Again...

 

Balance would be if the reciprocate is of same value. Healing Per Second being equal to Damage Per Second, the individual player skill being the determining factor.

Edited April 19, 2012 by PostalTwinkie

[Darthbluginal]

Healer healing output and Damage output should be equal. People saying that it shouldnt be or is, are not right.

1v1 a maurader, no way you can out heal that DPS, even considering that you have the 17k HP headstart by having Full HP.

[Darthbluginal]

The fact that this thread has 752 replies and 25,886 views is evidence enough that there is a major concern in the community that needs to be addressed. What Bioware needs to do is show us what direction they plan on taking us in.

[PostalTwinkie]

The fact that this thread has 752 replies and 25,886 views is evidence enough that there is a major concern in the community that needs to be addressed. What Bioware needs to do is show us what direction they plan on taking us in.

 

BioWare has already made it clear what direction they are taking it....

 

Story driven PvE is the primary focus, and a PvP system that is so lacking people won't want to play it. Yet still allows them to claim they have PvP in the game for marketing purposes. BioWare hasn't been shy at all about this, none of these 1.2 changes should have happen. PTR was up in arms over the changes and told BioWare to not make them, yet here we sit.

[Assaultrooper]

This is one of the major reasons healers are upset and the point I am trying to make! As I explained in my previous post in a 1 v 1 a Healer shouldn't die to a DPS, and a DPS shouldn't die to a Healer! If the game was balanced they would effectively cancel each other out at maximum efficiency. Meaning if a DPS and a Healer were in a 1 v 1 and both putting out 100% of their respective potential, they would indefinitely be engaged. The opposite of DPS is Healing!

 

In the above example what would break that deadlock would be individual player skill, the person who makes the first mistake (missing a CD or spell) would end up losing! Instead of this we have DPS who of any skill level can simply explode a healer in 1 v 1. This isn't balance!

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/balance

 

Again...

 

Balance would be if the reciprocate is of same value. Healing Per Second being equal to Damage Per Second, the individual player skill being the determining factor.

 

So... are you trying to imply that as a healer you should not be able to use ANY offensive abilities? Cause thats what it would take for your "god" mode healer not to kill a dps if the dps can't kill him.

 

Balance is fine now (It was Ok before, its fine now) 2 good healers can still survive up to 3 dps. Infact what I am discovering is most healers are learning not to just sit there and take the pounding like a baws, use LOS, hug pillars, use your cds, and never wander alone. You did not become a healer to /lol at dpsers cause they can't kill you, you are a healer to heal your allies.

 

One thing I know is Good Healers are still good healers and often sway the tide of an entire warzone in their favor, in ways that a dps could never.

[Tyfonen]

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PvP was what sustained me and kept me playing SWTOR. After 2 days of pvping alot after the 1.2 patch I noticed a big decreese in my desire to log in at all and play. I wish that it wasn´t so but It just ain´t much fun anymore.

 

For me the way pvp plays right now is so much less enjoyable and competetiv. There´s no time to show your skill.. unless u think 1 2 3 4 u´r dead repeated over and over again is skill. Then sure you´r big and bad and your epeen just grew a bit more. Gratz u like 1.2. Now even the bad players that doesn´t use their entire toolset can kill a healer or anyone he´s trying to keep alive by just dps no tricks. Awsome for u.

 

Healing: sure I can push out high nrs of healing. That is if I´m foolishly left alone to stand there and chain cast my channeling heals without interupts. In fact there´s plenty of realy bad teams out there that´ll blindly keep dpsing anything "but" the healer unless he jumps in front of them and smacks them in the face. This however doesn´t matter in the part of keeping anyone alive. DPS output vs allaround survivability from even the unskilled will get your team m8s or u if they engage the brain killed, and there´s nothing much I can do about it any more as a healer.

 

Might just be that I end up getting that team m8 of mine behind a newly spawned shield for my effort of keeping him alive a couple more secs, instead of letting him right out again.

 

 

Realy even teams used to be exciting to play, here´s were the real fun used to be. The fights could be realy outdrawn and tight, taking alot of effort and teamwork to tilt the fight in your favor and finaly rout the enemy. Just to do it all over again at the next objective engagement. THAT WAS FUN. Even loosing to real even teams gives u a sense of enjoyment on top of the frustration of have lost the same.

All classes had a job to do and they did them well. Yes DPS too they never needed this sweaping buff vs survivability.

 

Now it´s who can bring the most hurt first in an engagement and then it´s pretty much tilted to either side who got the first jump and brings a couple of the other team out. Healing and tanking have been brought down to a sideshow that just doesn´t matter to the outcome of the fight anymore if u have enough dps burst. And yep there r more then enough dps burst to manage that in most even games.

 

This have turned it to a respawn parade more like something like TF2 or other freespawn FPS gameset. Minus the aiming part, just target one and push your dps buttons, nothing´s going to stop u if u´r good enough at it. Many classes/builds don´t have to focus at all to bring someone with similar gear and skill down.(with the right cooldowns/stims/relics offcause.)

 

Some argue it´s more "fastpaced". Sure u send and get sent to respawn in a much faster pace.

 

Some argue that healers were unkillable and some that a guard+healer combo were the same. All I can say learn to use your interupts/ccs/knocks for god sake before u come here shouting NERF. Sure it took some time if u met a good team but skill using your "entire" toolset and knowing the enemies will always be more important then pure dps.

Whooops! that´s how it used to be before 1.2

 

For me outdrawn fights R much more enjoyable in EVERY situation no matter wich end of the stick I am. And no not only on my healer. It´s no fun dropping people too fast either. Takes no skill, no planning, no real timing.

 

My faith in BW have taken a big hit when it comes to SWTOR and their ability to keep pvp interesting and fun. And I just don´t feel like logging in as much since only a few days in to 1.2. Mostly because of these out of control sweaping changes and the way they impacted the dynamic of pvp.

 

 

When I scroll up I can see what a rant this ended up beeing. Sorry for that.

 

(I´m sure there´s plenty of bad grammar/spelling too)

Edited April 20, 2012 by LexiCazam
Rude comments

[PostalTwinkie]

So... are you trying to imply that as a healer you should not be able to use ANY offensive abilities? Cause thats what it would take for your "god" mode healer not to kill a dps if the dps can't kill him.

 

Balance is fine now (It was Ok before, its fine now) 2 good healers can still survive up to 3 dps. Infact what I am discovering is most healers are learning not to just sit there and take the pounding like a baws, use LOS, hug pillars, use your cds, and never wander alone. You did not become a healer to /lol at dpsers cause they can't kill you, you are a healer to heal your allies.

 

One thing I know is Good Healers are still good healers and often sway the tide of an entire warzone in their favor, in ways that a dps could never.

 

Since you seem to be struggling with comprehension I will help you out...

 

First, I never said anything about a "god mode" healer, in fact I don't think you even understand what quotations are for or how to use them. What you discerned from my statement is the completely opposite of what you should have, and in my statement both DPS and Healing are equal to one another!

 

Second! Just as a Healer is going to have some offensive abilities at his/her disposal, the DPS will have some form of healing at their disposal. This all ties back into the part where I said "both putting out 100% of their respective potential,"

 

Last! I am a great healer, and still end at the top of the charts in terms of healing. That still doesn't change the simple fact that DPS and HPS are not in balance.

[Dreydin]

So... are you trying to imply that as a healer you should not be able to use ANY offensive abilities? Cause thats what it would take for your "god" mode healer not to kill a dps if the dps can't kill him.

 

Balance is fine now (It was Ok before, its fine now) 2 good healers can still survive up to 3 dps. Infact what I am discovering is most healers are learning not to just sit there and take the pounding like a baws, use LOS, hug pillars, use your cds, and never wander alone. You did not become a healer to /lol at dpsers cause they can't kill you, you are a healer to heal your allies.

 

One thing I know is Good Healers are still good healers and often sway the tide of an entire warzone in their favor, in ways that a dps could never.

 

I would happily give up the ability to do a single point of damage in PVP, I don't spec healer to damage people. And I don't do damage for metals. I am a healer, my role is to heal people. I cannot fathom the mindset of a person that thinks a single person should be able to DPS a single healer down(while having an equivalent ratio of both skill and ability) in 1V1. I will never understand how people think this is balanced, ever.

 

I played a DPS for years in several different games. And the way I think now, is the way I thought when I started. 1v1 I should only be able to kill a healer if I play better, or have better gear, or some such unbalancing factor thats under your control, or your opponents. I didn't quite understand why someone wouldn't want to kill. And then I realized they had a role to play to increase survivability. This in turn increases time to kill as a whole. Which allows for less "zerg" like playing.

 

Quick kills, and multiple trips to respawn just seem like something ADD kids need to keep happy. If you like that, grab Call of Duty and a microphone. You can run around one shotting people, and you can run your mouth off the whole time!

[Wraithwarr]

I used to hold out hope thinking it was something they could fix or patch into the game, but I am starting to realize that this game was not designed with pvp in mind. 4 warzones and no world pvp does not make an interesting game in my humble opinion. With other games coming out that promise to have a much more robust pvp feature set, I don't see many pvpers sticking around much longer. Maybe I just thought this game was going to be something it was not intended to be, there is a good bit of fun to be had, but coming from Warhammer Online and DaOC I miss the big pvp encounters too much.

[Tyfonen]

So... are you trying to imply that as a healer you should not be able to use ANY offensive abilities? Cause thats what it would take for your "god" mode healer not to kill a dps if the dps can't kill him.

 

Balance is fine now (It was Ok before, its fine now) 2 good healers can still survive up to 3 dps. Infact what I am discovering is most healers are learning not to just sit there and take the pounding like a baws, use LOS, hug pillars, use your cds, and never wander alone. You did not become a healer to /lol at dpsers cause they can't kill you, you are a healer to heal your allies.

 

One thing I know is Good Healers are still good healers and often sway the tide of an entire warzone in their favor, in ways that a dps could never.

 

Big picture if u plz. Try to see it.

 

A more skilled player should win against a less skilled player no matter what class. There u have true balance.

 

Sure there were some cases were one specific class had more problems against another. This is hard to avoid in a complex pvp/skill system unless u want omplete carboncopies and no real classes.

That said I felt that most classes had tools to acomplish this in most cases.

 

Also people on their own may have a harder time against specific classes because of their playstyle.

And there will be no way to balance that in the game. Just something the induvidual has to work on if he wants to improve. "This" is not in any way a valid reason to call for nerfs or rebalance. (I know some can have a hard time figuring this part out on their own.)

 

You did not become a healer to /lol at dpsers cause they can't kill you, you are a healer to heal your allies.

 

U´r absolutley right there about at least why I rolled a healer and enjoy playing that role in pvp. (Sadly alot less after 1.2)

However I have all the right to /lol at a dpser that couldn´t kill me or lock me out of my primary function "healing" pre 1.2. Now It´s so laughable it´s sad when some still can´t. And lets make this realy clear. I´m talking about REALY BAD dps players.

A good dps (most classes) could do this job solo, others job R were to focus target from a range. Point is ... SKILL is used to be primary. Not so much any more.

 

Now a dps with only a halfdead hamster up in the ol engine can kill a skilled healer or anyone the healer is trying to keep up. So u´r happy to feel usefull I get it. But bringing u this joy needed a total dumdown of the entire pvp dynamic.

 

Rated WZs lmao ... who gives a **** with this dps race pvp have become.

 

Edit:

Infact what I am discovering is most healers are learning not to just sit there and take the pounding like a baws, use LOS, hug pillars, use your cds

I´v always done this. I´m always on the move I need to be because I have people chasing me most of the time if they´r any good. That hasn´t changed. How fast they can stun kill me have however making this so much less effective. There´s no recovering from the kind of DPS put out now. And absolutley no time healing my team any more because of this any time I´m noticed by a single decent dps. I have to use all my skillset to keep my self alive.

 

And when I´m not noticed I still can´t keep people alive from the new burst dps. All resulting in me finding the role of a healer very unsatesfying. It´s simply not nearly as much fun, rather a big frustration.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Tyfonen

[Shadenuat]

Healers are still important, and on three out of four maps a pure healer with AoE heal is great thing to have. Having at least one sage with Salvation and one mobile and really hard to kill "red cross" - a Scoundrel, - I find it really helpful.

As a sage who played 90% of gaming time as 31-7-2 and now just mashes four-five buttons in DPS spec bathing in medals, healers have my great respect. For now, a skilled healer is still an asset much desireable, but often mistreated by group. It was great to be able not to kill anyone in a Quake-like to feel important and victorious in before 1.2. Now that modest kind of job feels more like a dirty and punishing, as you struggle to be useful but just die instead. People who want to feel better probably should go with scoundrels as healers.

I see people actually giving MVPs to those who have highest DPS, kills or medals nowadays. A pity.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Shadenuat

[Mirdthestrill]

Very well said, OP. You hit it right on the head. Pre 1.2, I was just in the 1-49 bracket and everything I did mattered. There was a great dynamic. DPS comes to the aid of the healer? He is repaid with much, near-invincibility. Healer saves the DPS? Rewarded with basically a "companion" who will help them throughout the match whenever they need it.

 

The real solution for DPS who hate healer-invincibility?

 

Bring your own healers. End of story.

[Tyfonen]

Healers are still important, and on three out of four maps a pure healer with AoE heal is great thing to have. Having at least one sage with Salvation and one mobile and really hard to kill "red cross" - a Scoundrel, - I find it really helpful.

As a sage who played 90% of gaming time as 31-7-2 and now just mashes four-five buttons in DPS spec bathing in medals, healers have my great respect. For now, a skilled healer is still an asset much desireable, but often mistreated by group. It was great to be able not to kill anyone in a Quake-like to feel important and victorious in before 1.2. Now that modest kind of job feels more like a dirty and punishing, as you struggle to be useful but just die instead. People who want to feel better probably should go with scoundrels as healers.

I see people actually giving MVPs to those who have highest DPS, kills or medals nowadays. A pity.

 

I´m playing a sawbones scoundrel as my main. And I can tell u that if they want an easier time healing u´ll find it´s allways been ALOT of work healing as a sawbones. And that hasn´t changed .. only the feeling from actually seeing a real impact before for all your effort. To feeling of never doing enough now after 1.2.

 

Again unless u´r playing a lesser team and u can just stand there or dance around without any interupts. Then any fool can do a good job still. That´s not what we´r talking about though.

Even matches is just a pain to heal now. Yours and the enemy team is dispatched to the spawn in a rapid pace, and u can´t realy change that by much no matter what.

 

I realize that experiences varies considering the teamsetups u usually see on your servers. But there´s still no disputing that it doesn´t take much effort from a good dps and less from a couple to dispatch any class now, no matter heals/cooldowns.

[Shadenuat]

Tyfonen , it's always a work to be a healer. But it seems to me (I have a Scrapper scoundrel in his 40ties) your class has more in-class suvivability than my main (Sage).

I had to respec 8 times that week to be a healer in WZs and OPS both (hybrid > pure healer > hybrid...) . I spended about 300K on that. I think (and I hope) you don't have to go as far.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Shadenuat

[Tyfonen]

Tyfonen , it's always a work to be a healer. But it seems to me (I have a Scrapper scoundrel in his 40ties) your class has more in-class suvivability than my main (Sage).

I had to respec 8 times that week to be a healer in WZs and OPS both (hybrid > pure healer > hybrid...) . I spended about 300K on that. I think (and I hope) you don't have to go as far.

 

I hope u get to 50 with him and try out sawbones. Let me know what u think.

[Ancard]

Listening to the opinions of dps players is like attending a day long festival of Vogon poetry. Great healers pre 1.2 created a play style to create survivability against other great players. And it worked. But oh my.....the dps players whined, complained, cried, etc. to get them nerfed so they could kill them even faster now.

 

DPS players don't really care if they die. They are used to it but they do not want to see another team with a great healer that they must work hard to kill because that displaces their numbers too much and requires too much effort to deal with. They want to run in and slaughter everything, quickly. Healers want to live because we want to keep our team alive so they can achieve their goals. DPS players just don't give a piss about healers for the most part because if they care about them at all that means they would actually have to use tactics and strategy to deal with those on the opposite team.

 

Saying that a healer is bad now because their entire style has been unnecessarily altered and they are upset about this because of your infantile qqing to get nerfs is quite pathetic. Other dps players want healers to simply be their bit ches. "You roll wit me and you be good, otherwise solo you should have zero survivability." This is the dps player god syndrome where they think healers should only have viability in a well organized team work environment but outside this they should be able to kill them in 2 -3 shots and move on to the next victim.

 

Fact is, dps whores have no place to criticize the healers who are upset about having their play style altered. There were bugs that needed to be fixed but the truth is healing was nerfed because of dps whores crying and contacting customer service because they actually had to formulate a plan to deal with the healers and we just can't have that kind of intelligent thinking in a dpser now can we?

 

If anything I thought healing was under powered before 1.2. I'm finding most complaints that heals were or are still over powered are coming from people that just don't know how to play. In wow healers are way more powerful then this game even before the patch but I can jump on any of my DPS characters and shut them down. The difference is you need to use strategy which good players welcome.

 

You can't say that with this game. With the release of 1.2 there is no strategy needed to counter a healer. You just mash buttons watch them fall and move on to the next. What a boring piece of crap the PVP in this game turned into. You might as well be playing against a potato.

 

As a result of the drastic changes that came with 1.2 I started playing wow again and couldn't help notice there is a different ambiance in the air. I played some battle grounds without people yelling insults, afking, complaining about every class under the sun, etc, etc.... I thought to myself what happened here? It's almost like all the NOOB players just disappeared.

 

Well I now know the truth. The NOOB's didn't disappear..... They came here and rolled DPS characters........

 

Looks like panda's are in my future. Good luck to all of you and I hope they nerf heals even more so you stay here.

 

Peace out

[mezzaninex]

Sign with the OP, they made this game not much fun as a healer. Get a real PTR char copy system so you can actually test things before you make sweeping class changes based on spreadsheets of data.

[Anziety]

I have a sage.

 

To all of the people saying that healers just need to get better, that it took no skill to heal and so forth I say nay. Unless you have a level 50 healer and have played more then a few WZ, no offence, but do not even post your opinion here unless it is constructive. No more of this "you just need more skill", you DPS where all QQing for months about how you could not kill a class that can't even do that much damage to you. I can tell that some of you here are probably not nice people on your respective servers so probably do not have the benefit of heals keeping you alive through enemies so you default to QQ mode.

 

I am on a low population server so you get to know who is good on the enemy team and so on. Prior to 1.2, I was able to predict who could kill me because they where the ones who have been playing for a while and are GOOD at their class. I could be shielded by the best guardian on the server and if two of those players came at us it was an epic battle to say the least where the end result in many cases was a defeat. As a healer pre 1.2 vs almost any class I was pretty much dead. I could heal forever against some of them (like tanks), sure, but why bother. I can't take the time out to cast a dot or an attack and if I did I would just have to heal twice as hard to make up for it and meanwhile their HP regen heals them back to full. Eventually, we walked away or I gave up and died. I was fine with this. I accept that I can die in this game.

 

I am squishy, I wear light armour, all I have to bolster myself is my fantastic finite healing ability.

 

As a healer I am not running around killing people. I am not a threat to you directly. In a WZ, move past the DPS or tank in front of me and attack me. I assure you, all I will be able to do is heal myself and get the odd dot off. If you can't kill me, don't QQ and ask for nerfs, learn your class better or get another DPS to kill me. If you are facing me 1v2 expect to die. If you gear is ****, expect to die. If your gear is good, well, you can't be good just because you have good gear. Maybe that is why you died. "I am in full BM and can't kill a healer 1v1 QQ". Yeah, that is how it should be unless you have the skill. I can assure you, bear in mind I have been leveling my healer since pre release as a healer and have never ever been any other spec so I am pretty good at my class, that it was very possible to kill healers pre 1.2. I would get stunned, kicked, knocked and bashed to death.

 

After 1.2 I find myself considering a respec. Those players that used to pose a threat to me that I remember epic battles with now just come up and usually stun me for my entire life. If I manage to get a heal off it usually does not matter at all.

 

PvE is also suffering because of the healer nerf. I would love if they would just give us back the 50% reduced cast time on Deliverance for PvE. I can not say how many time I have avoided casting that ever so useful spell and wasted the extra mana on other spells since 1.2. Noble Sacrifice takes health now? I rolled the class that was made to heal. I am a Jedi Sage. I am sorry but I should be an OP PvE healer, that is why I rolled the class in the first place. I love OPS and I love how my team loves my healing and how I know how to use Noble Sacrifice to keep myself from running out of force. Now, I have to waste time and MORE mana healing myself. I am fine with healing myself but the fact is that between the heal negation from Noble Sacrifice and just general damage, I am safer not to use it because I have to waste the time and Force bringing myself back up to health just so I can spam Noble and bring myself back down. Same in PvP. I used to use that move when it came up. Now I would rather run out of force just to give myself that potential extra few hundred HP that I cannot afford to lose any more.

 

I know I am just another ranter but I felt, just like the others here, that I needed to have my opinion heard. Anyone saying that healing is fine now probably has not used a healer and most probably has not used a sage. You dps people saying healers need more skill are obviously enjoying your high of "I can juggernaut through anything" right now and that is why but level a healer to 50 and then say it does not blow. For those of you who are saying this and have a sage a 50 or another healer at 50 and are good and have been using your class then you are clearly not up against very hard enemies.

 

I am going to keep healing in WZ because that is what I do. Well I usually have around 17 or 18 deaths, that will not stop me from trying my best. I am happy for the DPS classes and unlike many of the people who QQ and say nerf, I say buff out class back up. Leave the DPS the way they are and give us something back. BW literally took away everything that made being a healer fun. Keeping yourself alive and other vs impossible odds.

 

Thanks for reading my QQ and please keep posting here. It is informative to read what everyone's take is on the healing nerfs.

[TalkingDinosaur]

Actually, we can still do that. Your post shows how uninformed you are.

Orly

 

Healers have about 3 different heal casts. In 1v1 when you're both fighting they can cast a heal and the other can interrupt it. Now his interrupt is on CD while the healer casts his other 2 available heals. And wow would you look at that he went from 30% to 80% and the other player is still at about 40%. <.> But if healers complain they can't match DPS output with healing output then you're doing it wrong.

 

The difference is in the wz burst that people can output. Mara/Sentinels/Juggs/PTs/Mercs and Snipers can hit for outrageous crits and drop people faster than a healer could ever respond too.

Yeah they hit for outrageous crits...when they pop their CD's and stims/adrenals which are on 1-2 min cooldown.

 

Any class that heals can practically counter any stragglers that approach them. If you're an IA healer you have 2 stuns that give you more than enough time to cast 2 heals then use your 2nd stun and cast 2 more heals, rinse and repeat. If you're Sorc healer.....well what DON'T you have to combat others even spec'd in heals. Merc healers have 2 stuns if I remember and a pushback.

 

For healers of the Republic I can't blame you for feeling helpless. Your teammates are PvPing in PvE gear.

Edited April 19, 2012 by TalkingDinosaur

[TalkingDinosaur]

I can't take the time out to cast a dot or an attack and if I did I would just have to heal twice as hard to make up for it and meanwhile their HP regen heals them back to full.

I'd like to know what DPS class can use a in-combat heal that regens to full hp.

[Rollento]

I'd like to know what DPS class can use a in-combat heal that regens to full hp.

 

Its called Adrenals/Medpacs. It sucks when marauders/guardians use their defensive cooldown and pop one while their strengthened and get whacked on.

[MrXen]

O M G ! ! ... *blacks out for a second from laughing to hard. Everything about this post is just so ... so .. so. Damn I don´t have the right words for how laughable it is. And the fact that he´s serious about what he´s typing...... U R serious right? I got to make sure.

 

All from thinking about how bad those 2 maras and u must be to have one scoundrel outheal u. (Or the fact that u even think this is possible)

to..

U say u´r a DPS JUGG?!. Sounds like u have alot of improvingto do in so many ways before coming here talking about balance. I find this to be a huge problem... ALOT of the posts in here R from people that clearly have NO CLUE.

 

That said to the topic. (and sorry if I was a bit harsh LordRayth)

 

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PvP was what sustained me and kept me playing SWTOR. After 2 days of pvping alot after the 1.2 patch I noticed a big decreese in my desire to log in at all and play. I wish that it wasn´t so but It just ain´t much fun anymore.

 

For me the way pvp plays right now is so much less enjoyable and competetiv. There´s no time to show your skill.. unless u think 1 2 3 4 u´r dead repeated over and over again is skill. Then sure you´r big and bad and your epeen just grew a bit more. Gratz u like 1.2. Now even the bad players that doesn´t use their entire toolset can kill a healer or anyone he´s trying to keep alive by just dps no tricks. Awsome for u.

 

Healing: sure I can push out high nrs of healing. That is if I´m foolishly left alone to stand there and chain cast my channeling heals without interupts. In fact there´s plenty of realy bad teams out there that´ll blindly keep dpsing anything "but" the healer unless he jumps in front of them and smacks them in the face. This however doesn´t matter in the part of keeping anyone alive. DPS output vs allaround survivability from even the unskilled will get your team m8s or u if they engage the brain killed, and there´s nothing much I can do about it any more as a healer.

 

Might just be that I end up getting that team m8 of mine behind a newly spawned shield for my effort of keeping him alive a couple more secs, instead of letting him right out again.

 

 

Realy even teams used to be exciting to play, here´s were the real fun used to be. The fights could be realy outdrawn and tight, taking alot of effort and teamwork to tilt the fight in your favor and finaly rout the enemy. Just to do it all over again at the next objective engagement. THAT WAS FUN. Even loosing to real even teams gives u a sense of enjoyment on top of the frustration of have lost the same.

All classes had a job to do and they did them well. Yes DPS too they never needed this sweaping buff vs survivability.

 

Now it´s who can bring the most hurt first in an engagement and then it´s pretty much tilted to either side who got the first jump and brings a couple of the other team out. Healing and tanking have been brought down to a sideshow that just doesn´t matter to the outcome of the fight anymore if u have enough dps burst. And yep there r more then enough dps burst to manage that in most even games.

 

This have turned it to a respawn parade more like something like TF2 or other freespawn FPS gameset. Minus the aiming part, just target one and push your dps buttons, nothing´s going to stop u if u´r good enough at it. Many classes/builds don´t have to focus at all to bring someone with similar gear and skill down.(with the right cooldowns/stims/relics offcause.)

 

Some argue it´s more "fastpaced". Sure u send and get sent to respawn in a much faster pace.

 

Some argue that healers were unkillable and some that a guard+healer combo were the same. All I can say learn to use your interupts/ccs/knocks for god sake before u come here shouting NERF. Sure it took some time if u met a good team but skill using your "entire" toolset and knowing the enemies will always be more important then pure dps.

Whooops! that´s how it used to be before 1.2

 

For me outdrawn fights R much more enjoyable in EVERY situation no matter wich end of the stick I am. And no not only on my healer. It´s no fun dropping people too fast either. Takes no skill, no planning, no real timing.

 

My faith in BW have taken a big hit when it comes to SWTOR and their ability to keep pvp interesting and fun. And I just don´t feel like logging in as much since only a few days in to 1.2. Mostly because of these out of control sweaping changes and the way they impacted the dynamic of pvp.

 

 

When I scroll up I can see what a rant this ended up beeing. Sorry for that.

 

(I´m sure there´s plenty of bad grammar/spelling too)

 

 

I'm on Sword of Ajunta Pall and if you'd like grab a friend and both of you level to 50 as DPS'ers (any class you want as DPS specs) and get full recruit gear, I'll use my merc and put full recruit on him in healer spec.

 

 

We can go to the outlaw's den and i'll let you both attack me (with a 2 second head start before i react) and I promise I will kill you both as a healer without going below 30%. Its so easy a cave man could do it.

 

 

All the while as this is happening I'll even tell you exactly what abilities/buttons I am pressing...it'll be

 

3...3...3....oh an interrupt? 4...1...6...3...3...3...

 

Or if you'd like (because you are most likely too lazy to actually collect evidence) I'll come to YOUR server and we'll do this and post results here putting this "argument" if you can call it that, to rest?

Edited April 19, 2012 by MrXen

[Safgril]

I'm on Sword of Ajunta Pall and if you'd like grab a friend and both of you level to 50 as DPS'ers (any class you want as DPS specs) and get full recruit gear, I'll use my merc and put full recruit on him in healer spec.

 

 

We can go to the outlaw's den and i'll let you both attack me (with a 2 second head start before i react) and I promise I will kill you both as a healer without going below 30%. Its so easy a cave man could do it.

 

 

All the while as this is happening I'll even tell you exactly what abilities/buttons I am pressing...it'll be

 

3...3...3....oh an interrupt? 4...1...6...3...3...3...

 

Or if you'd like (because you are most likely too lazy to actually collect evidence) I'll come to YOUR server and we'll do this and post results here putting this "argument" if you can call it that, to rest?

 

LOL 2 dpsers on your merc.. will wipe you fast.. especially if you give them 2 seconds... a sent and a shadow will wipe you fast...

 

and you need to be a full healer... not a hybrid man... hybrids are for dps not for healing... you need to GO FULL HEAL TREE... you will lose fast dude... you wont do enough dps to take down 2 dpsers. unless they are god aweful bad.

[romulusrwolf]

As a lvl 50 Sorc Healer I'd like to weigh in with the overwhelming majority.

 

I completely agree with the OP: prior to 1.2 PvP was fun for all classes. It was a different game to what we had seen in previous mmo's and it was exciting to be a part of. All of a sudden, tanks and healers could DO something. And not just that, it was FUN. In WoW a good helaer made a dramatic difference to a PvP match, I'm not denying that, but they often needed to be constantly protected and, more importantly it wasn't all that fun playing a healer. Why? Because it's a rinse and repeat formula of run in, spam heal, die, respawn, run in, spam heal.

 

Prior to 1.2 as a healer I could heal ppl, and if I was attacked I could hold my own. As is continually repeated in this thread I could NOT kill the dpser focusing me, but I could indeed kite him around, bubble myself and heal, cc until my cds popped and start the cycle over again. It was always an "epic" fight, in the sense that it was frantic, requiring quick response times to counter the dpser and precision in my rotations or I would end up stranded without an ability up. If that happened, in light armour with no dmg mitigation to speak of, I would be dead in less than 5sec. So, assuming I was up against a decent dpser, the result would be a stalemate until either my force ran out (and this DID need to be fixed), I slipped up my rotation or some friend came to aid one of us. If I was up against a bad dpser, I could literally stand there and spam heals and bubbles - If you don't know how to interrupt and cc then I'm sure healers seem totally overpowered to you, actually you are just bad at PvP. Against a great dpser who timed their interrupts and cc abilities I would always need a friend, or i'd be locked down and systematically pulled apart.

 

I liked this form of PvP, it was tactical and heart thumping and fun. As my alt juggernaut, learning how to counter a healer was just as strategic. Battles were long and required teamwork and a tactical approach. Mark the healers, lock them down or kill them, use your interrupts and cc. Likewise, mark your own healers, dpsers and tanks no longer just had to focus the attackers, they also had to look out for their healers and keep them free to heal. Any 1v1 battle between equally skilled players regardless of the class was fun and challenging.

 

Now, well, now we are back to the style of PvP where not many choose to play a healer. Run out, spam heals, get smooshed, respawn and do it all over again. Usually I don't even bother healing myself and barely bother to use my cc etc to elude the enemy as it usually gives me a precious few second more of life in which I do NOTHING but keep myself alive. The only time I bother now to actually kite and cc an enemy the way I used to is if there is a tank/dps in the room who is specifically protecting me, and even then, I don't bother for long. More than that, burst dmg from Snipers and Bounty Hunters is through the roof. Even when I am left alone to heal my teammates (which never happens against a good team) I often cannot heal through the ridiculous burst dmg of grav round & snipes. So not only has patch 1.2 meant that I have to resign myself to boring PvP as a healer, I can't even keep my teammates alive half the time when given the chance.

 

And why? Why have we been nerfed? Because players are used to the old formula. Every dpser expects they can stun a healers and pull it apart in seconds, without using interrupts and cc, just spamming a few burst dmg buttons. (I would like to point out here that not having lvl tiered WZ definitely made a difference to the perception of healer survivability, at 48 & 49 I was hard to touch unless my opponent was in the same lvl bracket, again that has nothing to do with the class itself being overpowered)

 

Unfortunately, PvP is my favourite part of mmo's... I'm busy lvling an dps spec Operative so I can enjoy it again.

[JustTray]

I'm on Sword of Ajunta Pall and if you'd like grab a friend and both of you level to 50 as DPS'ers (any class you want as DPS specs) and get full recruit gear, I'll use my merc and put full recruit on him in healer spec.

 

 

We can go to the outlaw's den and i'll let you both attack me (with a 2 second head start before i react) and I promise I will kill you both as a healer without going below 30%. Its so easy a cave man could do it.

 

 

All the while as this is happening I'll even tell you exactly what abilities/buttons I am pressing...it'll be

 

3...3...3....oh an interrupt? 4...1...6...3...3...3...

 

Or if you'd like (because you are most likely too lazy to actually collect evidence) I'll come to YOUR server and we'll do this and post results here putting this "argument" if you can call it that, to rest?

 

Troll post is trolling