A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

[Blloodbane]

I think the HUGE picture is being missed entirely..

 

 

Its not like Healers do nothing but heal and zero anything else... They toss their big strike DPS to lend a hand, or vice versa..

 

Guess what, when your a Warrior or Knight (if you have any kind of healing), you are not exactly able to contribute limited healing back. Not to mention you are stuck at MELEE range...

 

Between, Knock backs, Roots, Pushes, Pulls, Stuns, etc... its a wonder melee's do as well as they do now, some anyways, some still suck.

[Pretty_Flacko]

Personally, i always vote MVP to the player with the most healing points. I think healing was OP before 1.2, and now it is better. I still get healed a decent amount to keep me alive longer while being focused on. I protect my healer as best as i can because,well hey, without them healing me id be dead. I would hate to be nerfed, but in reality it needed a nerf. A single commando could heal his whole team, while healing himself, and still put out dps numbers. Things seem more balanced now, a little off, but a lot better than before. But i don't play a healer, so I cant speak for you. All i can say is that I think a healer is vital to a pvp team, and i will work my *** off to keep that healer alive as long as they are keeping me alive.

[truchaos]

What did a Sage healer need? NOTHING. You get close to it KNOCK BACK, force speed fights over. Or if you get lucky enough to get on it the best thing you can do is to keep it from healing others while keeping up the pressure blowing every single CD imaginable just to limit it's heals and still isn't enough to even get a dent in the healer for Dispatch.

 

Wait a moment here, since when does simply being a dps give a free ticket to killing any target you want without support?

 

Do you suddenly do no damage up until the point you actually kill something? Or... is killing a target, in truth, merely an apex goal you are aiming for? Much like the aim of a healer is keeping a target (themselves or others) alive...

 

How could anyone Really expect a class focused on the art of staying alive... to be easy to kill 1v1? You are a dps, they are a healer- you do damage and they heal damage. If you are both equally geared then it should come down to a factor of skill/luck/timing, but it shouldn't be quick or easy in any shape or form.

[bamsmacked]

Wait a moment here, since when does simply being a dps give a free ticket to killing any target you want without support?

 

Do you suddenly do no damage up until the point you actually kill something? Or... is killing a target, in truth, merely an apex goal you are aiming for? Much like the aim of a healer is keeping a target (themselves or others) alive...

 

How could anyone Really expect a class focused on the art of staying alive... to be easy to kill 1v1? You are a dps, they are a healer- you do damage and they heal damage. If you are both equally geared then it should come down to a factor of skill/luck/timing, but it shouldn't be quick or easy in any shape or form.

 

It doesn't give me a free ticket. I'm not saying that, read my previous post.

 

I'm saying I'm having a Piano fest trying to kill a healer using 3x as many abilities as they are, meanwhile they are standing still pressing 3-4 buttons.

 

No skill is involved there. I'm working my *** off, and all they keep doing is throwing out a few heals and even have the time to type in chat LOL at me.

 

That's frustrating. Can't tell you how many times I actually DID get a healer to Dispatch range only to have my global not CD quick enough and boom they're back at 50% health and my CDs are blown and my focus resource is wavering. No way I can get them back to 20% health at this point.

 

I'm not saying I should get a free ticket to kill a Healer. What I'm saying is that I want Interrupts to work like traditional interrupts and that skill should be the determining factor in any 1v1 situation. In Swtor that's not the case, and that's the real reason why I quit.

[Docster]

I've read a lot of people who claim that one dps should take down a healer, but the fact is that one dps and one healer should essentially negate each other. If a dps should always be able to take out a healer then what is the point of a healer? Wouldn't it be better to bring in another burst dps who can also kill? DPS has become vastly more important than healing (whereas previously the game was weighted too far in the other direction).

 

Healers definitely needed some tuning, but there were so many big changes that this has gone beyond tuning and completely marginalized healers. I am a combat medic in full BM (minus one relic) and I drop stupidly fast. I can't effectively heal anyone, including myself. I pillar hump, cc, kb, and try anything I can to LOS, but I don't really have any escape mechanics or mobility. The second I stop to heal it's, hello marauder/powertech in my face and then I'm in the respawn trying to stack my supercharge cells.

 

Remember way back in 1.0 land when Scoundrel/Operatives were absolutely blowing people up in the space of a stun? Remember how terribly unbalanced that was? Well now it's like there are 4 or 5 1.0 operatives in every warzone, only now some of them have lightsabers, and others have blasters.

 

I've heard from a guildie that scoundrel/operative healing isn't quite as bad because he is more mobile and none of his core abilities were changed very much. I can see how that might be the case, and how in that situation the changes to expertise actually come into a little bit of focus. But for a class that has absolutely no mobility (commando/mercenary) the changes are disastrous. From what I understand, sage/sorc healing is suffering as well, though for slightly different (but related) reasons.

 

tl;dr: Healing needed to be tuned, but they have turned the knob too far in the opposite direction.

 

Keep in mind that most DPS can also HEAL. As a Sage, I can't live long enough to heal anyone now. I'm almost full battlemaster. Mauranders just stund/interrupt and I'm dead.

 

One of the biggest problems is the amount of interrupts. Give us an interrupt immunity for 15 seconds or something on a 2 minute cooldown. Put it in the heal tree. As it is now, dps sorcs are doing 300K damage and 100K healing. I spend more time waiting to respawn than playing sometimes. I loved PvP in this game (not just as a healer) but now my healer is usually useless. One or heals interruped and I'm dead in a few seconds from a good dps. It still takes us forever to kill anyone one in one as a full heal spec. In fact, I rarely even bother...I just stun/run away and move on.

[iceperson]

I'm not saying I'm dying to healers. I'm saying I'm dying to other DPS. Everyone is susceptible to DPS except healers in post 1.2.

 

your argument seems to be "pre 1.2 i died all the time to dps, so healers needed nerfed". here's a question, pre 1.2 were you able to kill other players as dps? if so, how does that fit into your logic?

[farfulnugen]

I don't know what it's like to heal pvp as other classes, but post 1.2, healing as a Seer is a complete and utter joke. Interrupt, Interrupt, stun, dead. All...the....time. It's so boring and unfun.

 

I'm glad dps is having fun though.

[fungihoujo]

It doesn't give me a free ticket. I'm not saying that, read my previous post.

 

I'm saying I'm having a Piano fest trying to kill a healer using 3x as many abilities as they are, meanwhile they are standing still pressing 3-4 buttons.

 

No skill is involved there. I'm working my *** off, and all they keep doing is throwing out a few heals and even have the time to type in chat LOL at me.

 

That's frustrating. Can't tell you how many times I actually DID get a healer to Dispatch range only to have my global not CD quick enough and boom they're back at 50% health and my CDs are blown and my focus resource is wavering. No way I can get them back to 20% health at this point.

 

I'm not saying I should get a free ticket to kill a Healer. What I'm saying is that I want Interrupts to work like traditional interrupts and that skill should be the determining factor in any 1v1 situation. In Swtor that's not the case, and that's the real reason why I quit.

 

So you're saying that healers should have far more abilities at their disposal?

 

I agree, being limited to two spammable heals makes it excessively easy to be shut down- especially when one of those spammable heals is useless. Maybe you should ask for healers to get more useful healing abilities rather than be a class that only has a few buttons to press?

 

As for you being a marauder and whining about being unable to keep a healer interrupted... just wow, working your butt off? You've been given a free ride to being unbeatable 1v1, and you still complain?

[bamsmacked]

your argument seems to be "pre 1.2 i died all the time to dps, so healers needed nerfed". here's a question, pre 1.2 were you able to kill other players as dps? if so, how does that fit into your logic?

 

I'M NOT SAYING HEALERS NEEDED TO BE NERFED I'M SAYING THAT IF INTERRUPTS WORKED LIKE THEY DID IN EVERY OTHER MMO THIS HUGE HEALER NERF WOULDN'T BE NECESSARY BECAUSE THE RATE OF WHICH THEY CAN HEAL WOULD BE HINDERED BY ANY SKILLED PLAYER THAT KNOWS HOW TO INTERRUPT.

 

WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT THE FAVORITISM HAS TO END AND WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE ON THE SAME PLAYING FIELD TO PREVENT FUTURE NERFS.

 

I'm tired of repeating myself. And to answer your question, I can kill DPS/tanks in both post 1.2 and now. Before however, healers 1v1 weren't susceptible to DPS like everyone else was. Can I kill healers in 1.2 1v1? Yes. Mostly because of the healing nerf and major damage increase in conjunction with a buffed Dispatch. I don't agree with everything in the new patch, I don't like buffed damage, less mitigation, and weaker heals. All I wanted is better Interrupts man. That's IT.

 

If everyone was susceptible to damage - and if skill was the determining factor in 1v1 situations we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

So you're saying that healers should have far more abilities at their disposal?

 

I agree, being limited to two spammable heals makes it excessively easy to be shut down- especially when one of those spammable heals is useless. Maybe you should ask for healers to get more useful healing abilities rather than be a class that only has a few buttons to press?

 

As for you being a marauder and whining about being unable to keep a healer interrupted... just wow, working your butt off? You've been given a free ride to being unbeatable 1v1, and you still complain?

 

READ my POSTS.

 

I clearly said earlier that I am a Guardian - Deep Vigilance spec.

 

And yes I agree with more talents being needed for Healers so that they can't just spam the same talents over and over with no thought or consequence. I hate working my *** off in a Piano fest only to be in a stalemate against someone who's not even moving using the same 3 heals over and over.

Edited April 13, 2012 by bamsmacked

[Haeso]

itt bad players think healing is effective in anything but fringe circumstances.

[belialle]

I as a full Cent geared Scoundrel pre 1.2 sometimes could barely dent some healers,they would just laugth it off,hell i recall one it took three of us (All DPS) to bring him down and it was far longer than 10 seconds too,healing was getting way over the the top to the point Voidstars were nothing but who could get past just the first door,if that.

 

Found your problem. The best you could hope for against a healer who outgears you is to interrupt key casts, CC them, force them out of LoS from their targets, etc. If you had better gear, you'd notice a stark difference in your performance, assuming you are playing well to begin with.

 

No wonder some people were crying so much about healers if people are having these crazy delusions about how effective they can be in low level gear.

Edited April 13, 2012 by belialle

[swtorEleani]

Right now every spot used by a healer is a wasted spot, better stack just another mar/jug/pyro!

 

Furthermore healing is not fun anymore, when you're trying to heal your teammates and they're still dropping like flies within seconds due to insane dps increase and slowed down healing on the other hand it's more than frustrating...

[Sylvan]

I just did a run of warzones on my well geared Sage healer. I pulled in 300k in huttball and over 410k in voidstar. This is below what I used to get pre 1.2, and yes I didn't notice the increase in dps and the fact I had to watch people die whilst my crappy deliverance creeped along for a 2.4 sec cast.

 

It isn't as bad as people think.

[Docster]

This change to healing in PVP does suck, bad. Despite what someone said, no single dps should be able to kill a healer, it should be a stalemate. Same thing with a tank, no single dps should be able to kill a tank. Now, it's a joke. If you are not guarded, you are dead, and fast, and I have almost full battlemaster. I pug almost all the time, so most of the time the tank classes are gonna dps, that's just what happens when you play with a bunch of lone wolves. But unless I get a guard, I might as well do nothing more than throw myself a couple heals and drop dead.

Now as a sage to top it all off, I have terrible force regen, in that noble sacrifice always takes a big chunk of my health, like the dps are getting a free shot on me.

This is probably one of the biggest nerfs I have seen in an MMO at one moment in time. I honestly don't want to heal in a WZ anymore, but am reluctant to switch since I heal for raids, and I can't dual spec yet.

 

CC is also terrible in this game, and has been since I have been playing. There is way too much of it, too many interrupts, and all classes should not have them to this extent. Any two people fighting a caster can lock him down and almost keep him stun locked. There needs to be severe diminishing returns for stuns and snares.

 

^^^. Yep. CC is ruining PvP. If you interrupt a dps so they can't use their favorite ability for 4 seconds...big deal. If you do that to a healer...they are screwed. Especially 2 seconds into a 2.3 second big heal (that *should* crit with the new changes as a Sage).

 

I love PvP, but as a Sage healer....unless we have some way to negate all the CC's/interrupts every so often, then there is no point. I'll just wait like everyone else for multi-spec and heal in PvE and dps in PVP. DPS is clearly the only logical choice in PvP right now.

[Vaipyr]

If you interrupt a dps so they can't use their favorite ability for 4 seconds...big deal. If you do that to a healer...they are screwed.

 

Obvious illogical bias spotted.

[kikontos]

After 15+ warzones in 1.2,i find it sad to admit that as a scoundrel healer i feel totally useless in random scenarios.I cant effectivelly heal and give my team the edge for having a healer!From the "oh good we have a healer" the moto became "so what if we have a healer".Healing gave the satisfaction that you actually were the cornerstone of the team and despite of not being able to kill ppl, you played a major role for your team to win..Now this is gone...No more healing for me then..i already have respecc'ed to dps and i recommend all healers do the same.Then those unsupporting dpsers will get what they deserve..A game with no healers.

[Banicks]

The fact is, as a sorc healer anyway, I'm decked in half BM gear and can't outheal 1v1 a scrub welfare geared DPS. There is something terribly wrong with that.

 

Guard or no guard. It simply makes me want to respec to DPS because PvP has turned into whoever can do the most DPS before you die, wins.

 

I can no longer keep my team mates up, because 95% of the match I'm healing myself. Why? Because warriors/marauders and their Jedi mirriors, once they identify me as a healer, will immediately target me and kill me within 4 seconds flat. Shield goes down in one hit, then 5k, 1k, 2k hits continuously until I'm dead.

 

There is no mitigation, we are squishy, I have no cc to handle it. Overload punts less than 5m and if by some miracle it goes further they simply charge back to me.

 

Prior to 1.2 I felt healers were what they should have been. It required teamwork to take one down, or just plain out nuking me. It was OP that I could outheal 4 DPS on me. I was accepting of this supposed nerf to healing because I could laugh away 1 DPS on me whilst I healed my team. Granted however I earnt my gear to be able to do that, it wasnt something I could do as a fresh 50 PvP.

 

But what BW forgot, is that they nerfed healing, buffed easy to get gear, and buffed DPS. So we are now 3 times worse off than we were before. I can't even forsee the WH gear making an iota of difference.

 

I've been PvP'ing for the past two days, and they have been the most frustrating PvP matches I have ever played. I may be raking in the medals easily enough, but the overall picture is that we survive alot less and so does our team. PvP is no longer enjoyable in its current form for me as a healer.

[ironwillaa]

I'm planning to respec to DPS this week (sorc healer) and it has nothing to do with the sorc nerfs it has to do with the entire rebalance in PVP healing just doesn't "feel" the same anymore. The sorc healing is really boring now too since you can't do quick cast dark infusions its all about resurgence -> innervate, twiddle your thumbs (joking but thats what it feels like).

 

Also, I got top healer on a map and got only 2 medals so I got ZERO rewards for wasting 15 mins healing my butt off while my team lost. That is just silly, why am I going to ever queue again as a healer when I earn very few medals post 1.2 when pre-1.2 I did great?

[Masturomenos]

All this anger comes from BW lack of design.

 

In every other mmo healers dont just heal. Cleanse, dispell, interupt, mana drains and cc are part of healers toolkite. This game healers only have one use healing. Thats the issue since when u nerf healing and healing resources BW is taking the only thing we can do away.

 

In wow arena u can get to 1800 as a priest by just spamming dispel. In this game without the ability to do anything but heal then just like it is now healers have become useless.

 

If BW made healers able to have an angle other then healing these nerfs wouldt mean anything since wed have other strengths to fall back on. Now our only strength and use has been taken away.

 

If they just fixed interupts to lock out spells for 2 to 4 seconds non of this would have been needed. How many times do developers need to be told that without a lockout interupts are useless? If ur latecy is off compared to the healer then inerupting a spell at 60% cast could mean nothing if the other player has already finished the cast. So dps on this game wait for a cast to end to make sure they r not being tricked when if they had a lockout they could use it the moment they saw a cast start since then they know they could lock out that spell.

 

Healers need more then 2 or 3 casted heals. Make healing OP but make us work for it not like it is now we heal for 5 seconds then wait around for resources to cd. Healers need tools so we can be useful in multiple situations. Healers need cds to save someone, we need dispells for buffs, we need cleanse to matter and we need to be able to do 500k healinf if we play right or 100k if we play wrong we dont want to do 200k whetherwe are good or bad.

 

The whole issue is biowares lack of creativity. Now cause of that we have less players online then we did on monday.

[pavelmatejka]

Someone mentioned healers who complain are bad players hiding behind being op.

I was complaining and respeced today. I dps in healing gear played about 11 matches today mostly im between 1- 3 place in medals and damage. I saw 3 healers today lol

 

if im bad and produce these numbers as assault commando are all the other dps retardet players? I dont think so so no i wasnt hiding behind op. these changes to survival of healers are bad (not the healing regen and cost changes) those are not as bad...

[Vetril]

After 15+ warzones in 1.2,i find it sad to admit that as a scoundrel healer i feel totally useless in random scenarios.I cant effectivelly heal and give my team the edge for having a healer!From the "oh good we have a healer" the moto became "so what if we have a healer".Healing gave the satisfaction that you actually were the cornerstone of the team and despite of not being able to kill ppl, you played a major role for your team to win..Now this is gone...No more healing for me then..i already have respecc'ed to dps and i recommend all healers do the same.Then those unsupporting dpsers will get what they deserve..A game with no healers.

 

Big deal. I kill more, and that gives my brain plenty of serotonin to play with.

[Veeius]

2 BM Sage healers vs 1 Cent geard Murader

 

OUTCOME= we both couldnt heal each other to stay alive he killed both within 8 seconds

(i have it frapsed if you do not beleive me)

 

Then, simply, you both failed. You both have knockbacks, you both have cc's. There is NO way 1 guy takes out 2 people in 8 seconds unless those 2 people are really really bad.

 

No, what's VASTLY more likely is the things you aren't telling us. Like, maybe one or both of you were already at low health. Maybe you didn't notice the sniper banging away at you. Maybe one of you stood in the fire, I don't know, but it is 100% not possible for 2 geared healers to get taken out by 1 guy in 8 seconds. COMPLETELY 100% NOT POSSIBLE.

 

I'll even grant maras/sents are op right now. But NOTHING is that op OR up. There is no combination where that can happen, PARTICULARLY when BOTH of the "victims" are healers.

 

Seriously, do you realize that you're saying that 1 guy not only chewed through 30k in 8 seconds (Almost 4k/sec) in just your health, but additionally ALL heals that TWO healers could throw in that time.

 

Not to mention, crikey, you could cc him for the entire 8 seconds you're talking about!

 

Look, maybe heals needs buffs, maybe sents/maras need nerfs, maybe both. But this level of hyperbole makes your entire argument void and nobody will pay attention other than to point out that you're grossly exaggerating.

[Docster]

Right now every spot used by a healer is a wasted spot, better stack just another mar/jug/pyro!

 

Furthermore healing is not fun anymore, when you're trying to heal your teammates and they're still dropping like flies within seconds due to insane dps increase and slowed down healing on the other hand it's more than frustrating...

 

Yep, exactly. I just checked my PVP ratios. Damage is way up...almost double the healing bonus for expertise.

 

Does Bioware really test this stuff out? Clearly DPS is the ONLY thing you need now. As it was, dps still ruled 90% of the time in matches. 2 good healers couldn't do much at all against a team with any semblence of team work.

 

/sigh. Give us multip spec soon at least. What really sucks is that most DPS can still heal....why not just take away their heals in PvP?

 

One of the major problems is that Bioware is trying to balance PvE and PvP with the exact same spells/damage/timers. It's not suprisingly broken. Just because a spell does one thing in PvE doesn't mean it should do the same damn thing in PvP. Everyone knows that.

[Docster]

The fact is, as a sorc healer anyway, I'm decked in half BM gear and can't outheal 1v1 a scrub welfare geared DPS. There is something terribly wrong with that.

 

Guard or no guard. It simply makes me want to respec to DPS because PvP has turned into whoever can do the most DPS before you die, wins.

 

I can no longer keep my team mates up, because 95% of the match I'm healing myself. Why? Because warriors/marauders and their Jedi mirriors, once they identify me as a healer, will immediately target me and kill me within 4 seconds flat. Shield goes down in one hit, then 5k, 1k, 2k hits continuously until I'm dead.

 

There is no mitigation, we are squishy, I have no cc to handle it. Overload punts less than 5m and if by some miracle it goes further they simply charge back to me.

 

Prior to 1.2 I felt healers were what they should have been. It required teamwork to take one down, or just plain out nuking me. It was OP that I could outheal 4 DPS on me. I was accepting of this supposed nerf to healing because I could laugh away 1 DPS on me whilst I healed my team. Granted however I earnt my gear to be able to do that, it wasnt something I could do as a fresh 50 PvP.

 

But what BW forgot, is that they nerfed healing, buffed easy to get gear, and buffed DPS. So we are now 3 times worse off than we were before. I can't even forsee the WH gear making an iota of difference.

 

I've been PvP'ing for the past two days, and they have been the most frustrating PvP matches I have ever played. I may be raking in the medals easily enough, but the overall picture is that we survive alot less and so does our team. PvP is no longer enjoyable in its current form for me as a healer.

 

Exactly. the buff to DPS is way more than it should be. As a Sage, I'm getting tore up by 14K HP's Marauders, and I'm at 16.3K geared up.....interrupt, stun....interrupt....splat. Honestly, against a well geared Maraunder/Sent who knew what they were doing, it was all I could do to live against them prior to 1.2. They have a lot of interrupt abilities, after all, and they seem to be on fairly short timers.

[Elkantar]

the main problem for sorcs are now that they have no real effektive heal for pvp compared to the high numbers of dps.

 

a innervate just give 700- 1,3k krits 4 times in 3 secsbut its channeled. so you have to stay.

 

a dark heal even with the hot buff, krit for 2,6k in 1,4k sec.

 

a dark infusion is uncastable, 2,2 secs, and the best is no crit 2,8k, crit 4,4k.

 

when we see now how rapid you can put out higher numbers in dps even as a bad player its clear whats wrong.

 

DPS = Heal is balanced.

 

Heal > DPS unbalanced

 

DPS > Heal unbalanced.

 

Yeah you bring also high numbers to the boards with 300k to 600k etc. but those numbers are ineffektive dark heals, innervate spams and aoe heal circle that cant do anything against the DPS that come in now.

 

Sorcs dont have any fast heal now that is strong enough, and thats the main problem.

 

Now you run out of force in a couple of seconds to try to heal against the burst and maybe you succeed OR your target dies before your 2,2sec DI heals him.

 

Bioware you deserve to loose us as customers, all of us. The forums are fine now for me, i love the hate now against you. Cause you deserved it after you didnt respond to any concerns and lied about new things that would give us some help-

 

edit: also before 1.2 we had big heal numbers but against decent burst we needed to put full efford in and sometimes we couldn't heal somebody against more then 2 targets. 2 Targets should be healed cause 1 dps 1 healer = 2v2.

 

The only use of a healer is now in 2v1.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Elkantar