A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

[DuckOne]

Lol so just so I understand... if as a healer you get focused and killed by 3 dps... and this happens more than once... you have to wait a bit more every time... to teach this healer to be less reckless and not get killed by 3 dps so easily? ... Just so I understand it correctly :-)

 

1 on 3 should lose. The point is for balance to come to the fore, a necessity for a healing class needs to be put back in. A DPS character has two easy heals in the game right now that don't depend upon a supporting healing character: rest and/or instant respawn. Reducing the significance of those mechanics will elevate the healing character's need.

[Galic]

As a Sage Seer in full Rakata gear - and half BM gear - I stepped into a warzone last night...

 

I'd like to think I've been one of the better healers on my server. I've downed 10/10HM and 9/10 NM (Soa!!! ). I was used to have that unkillable feeling when I pvp'd. I loved it. Being appreciated for my heals at the end of a match and getting voted mvp. 500k was easy. For fun I'd start wearing my Rakata gear in there, then custom gear, it didn't matter.

 

We were OP. Definitely. We knew it, too. It shouldn't be this easy. Of course we could still get rolled from time to time, but for the majority of our pvp experiences we've been tops.

 

Then came 1.2 - Taking into account my new UI - I was fumbling around like a newbie 50. 2.2 second cast Deliverance was interrupted constantly (as it should be). I decided to turn into a bubble/Salvation bot. When people noticed I was healing - it didnt take long for focus fire to burn me down quick. I went from dying 1-3 times a match to 10-12, at least. I can still heal for 2-300K though, which leads me to my next point.

 

(Ha, I bet you thought this was a qq post)

 

We need to adjust. Most Seers are used to bubbling, diving into the action, AoE healing, spamming deliverance, noble sacrificing back our Force, and repeating. Can't do that any more. We need to take a ranged dps approach to healing. Stay out of notice, try to sit back, constantly be on the move...

 

Use your CCs, slows, and knockbacks. Run away, even at the chance of a /giggle from the enemy. Find a tank friend to guard you. Start getting good dps to queue up with you.

 

I don't understand the rage quitting some Seers are doing. I know it's different, but we're still viable. Even in a secondary role. It's a matter of adjustment, changing the way we approach pvp. It's certainly not the op we're used to, but it doesn't mean we're bad.

 

Also, now that everyone knows about our class being bludgeoned with the nerf bat - step up... take this as an opportunity to show your server your skill level. "Yeah my class sucks, but I'm still awesome".

[Arosonomy]

Also, now that everyone knows about our class being bludgeoned with the nerf bat - step up... take this as an opportunity to show your server your skill level. "Yeah my class sucks, but I'm still awesome".

 

Thank you~ I completely agree.

[Stevlol]

A

Also, now that everyone knows about our class being bludgeoned with the nerf bat - step up... take this as an opportunity to show your server your skill level. "Yeah my class sucks, but I'm still awesome".

 

But I can't servers are down for 239487394 hours for no reason!

[SliggXx]

IMO the problem isn't that healers can't put up big numbers (I posted screens of me doing just that post 1.2), the problem is that if you're putting together a team it's now ALWAYS better to add another DPS over a healer (given both players have comparable skill/gear.)

 

True. Case in point, I had over 700K healing last night in a voidstar that ended 3 minutes early. We lost. We lost to a guild that we never lost to previously ever. We have been demonstrably better than this guild for ages. The thing was, it wasn't even close. The moment any healer stepped out of the alcove they were assisted down by three mauraders within SECONDS. They did have a single healer who had very little in the way of total healing and was really a wasted spot, as they could have had another dps class in their place and been even more effective.

 

3 Mauraders, 1 Powertech, 2 Assassins, 1 Sniper, 1 Sorcerer. Prior to 1.2 we would have laughed at this group combination.

[SKNugget]

Quitting healers won't change anything? wrong. ****** face rolling dpsers will be forced to heal so their guild can compete. of course they will suck, and they will cry so loudly that healers are underpowered that bw will fix heals. probelm solved.

 

I'm pretty sure you got to the same conclusion I did, so ... thanks?

 

 

 

And having healers quit won't change anything. People will cry for dual spec to come out faster, then everyone will have a spec that heals; and a crappy healer on raid-day is better than no healer on raid day.

[richardya]

I really enjoyed this post and it was not a whine.

Most non-healers, are evaluating if we like the change, as well and not dancing in the street. Guard is a great feature of SWToR and is still there and may see some changed in the future. I also liked that the community voted healers MVP a lot when they were short changed by the medal system.

 

But to the meat and potatoes of your post:

At first, when I (DPS) would get into a 1v1 with a healer and end in a literal stale mates I was amazed at what I thought was great balance, they couldn't kill me and I couldn't kill them, and I mean the fights were so long sometimes we took to "/say lol, see you later." (This was mostly in Ilum)

 

The problem was your other comment. You mentioned that healer+tank as a two man team was low dps but very hard to kill. This seems fair but was actually a major issue. The reason is because of how most warzones are designed. Defending one turret, one door or one ball carrier is a major part of all the present and future WarZones. In this area, the duo had a huge advantage that was not overcome by anything other than numbers and that would ultimately hurt the warzones. Too much revolved around overcoming the healer.

 

Keeping the warzones competitive is the ultimate goal of the PVP developers.

Anyway, I appreciate a mature complaint and not a whine. I would say though, "give it time to play out"

Edited April 13, 2012 by richardya

[nallard]

There is a lot of good points in this thread, but it would take me too long to quote from each, so I'll sum up and build on a few.

 

My belief, in any MMO that has a healing class, is that Healers should be able to mitigate - through negation, recovery or avoidance - any single source of damage.

 

As an Operative Healer, I had one WZ experience where two DPS (although in fairness I think one was out of force) chased me all over The Pit for a good two minutes (felt like forever) until I caught a weird carem off a vent and lost them with my disappearing act. Comments in the General channel were that healers are OP. I had responded "can't I just be good, and not OP?"

 

I understand the frustration... but please consider the following, in pre-1.2 conditions:

 

1. you're a dps that does damage and I am countering it all with heals. Don't forget, I'm working for it. It's not like I'm popping one skill, standing still and laughing at you while you beat on me with now-wet noodles.

 

2. throw enough dps on me and I won't be able to keep up and will die.

 

3. while you're beating on me, I can't heal anyone but myself. You ARE helping your team win by preventing me from keeping my team alive longer. The longer I stay alive with you harassing me, the longer I am away from my teammates healing. I don't think that's OP, I think that's strategy, and a good one on your part.

 

But the other critical piece of this is that I should be able to keep any other one person alive while they are being attacked by the same number of dps players. Patch 1.2 diminishes that capability and renders healers as 'nice to have' when pre-1.2 they were 'absolutely critical'.

 

Post 1.2, the gap between dps maximums and healing maximums has grown too much, and not only can one DPS kill a healer handily 1v1, but healers have been marginalized to almost optional in a WZ group.

 

And while complaining about the comms, gear, medals mechanics all have points to argue, I leave them out of my opinions in this post entirely.

Pre-mades should beat pugs more often than not.

Gear should matter, but so should skill.

PVP gear should not be as, or more viable than PvE gear in the opposite environments and vice versa.

Healers should be able to mitigate - through negation, recovery or avoidance - any single source of damage.

 

Version 1.2's PVP changes negates this statement.

 

-- Orenishi, Saber of Exar Kun

 

This is the best post in this whole thread and lays out the issues clearly. If anyone can offer a reasonable and well supported argument against this analysis, I will listen.

[Khoraji]

This is the best post in this whole thread and lays out the issues clearly. If anyone can offer a reasonable and well supported argument against this analysis, I will listen.

 

my argument is that we can still heal through a single dps. So no problem.

[SKNugget]

They did have a single healer who had very little in the way of total healing and was really a wasted spot, as they could have had another dps class in their place and been even more effective.

 

This is exactly my point (from previous posts) about what 1.2 did for healers in PVP.

 

[edit: as it turns out, my previous post is quoted two above this one]

Edited April 13, 2012 by SKNugget

[Arkerus]

As a Sage Seer in full Rakata gear - and half BM gear - I stepped into a warzone last night...

 

I'd like to think I've been one of the better healers on my server. I've downed 10/10HM and 9/10 NM (Soa!!! ). I was used to have that unkillable feeling when I pvp'd. I loved it. Being appreciated for my heals at the end of a match and getting voted mvp. 500k was easy. For fun I'd start wearing my Rakata gear in there, then custom gear, it didn't matter.

 

We were OP. Definitely. We knew it, too. It shouldn't be this easy. Of course we could still get rolled from time to time, but for the majority of our pvp experiences we've been tops.

 

Then came 1.2 - Taking into account my new UI - I was fumbling around like a newbie 50. 2.2 second cast Deliverance was interrupted constantly (as it should be). I decided to turn into a bubble/Salvation bot. When people noticed I was healing - it didnt take long for focus fire to burn me down quick. I went from dying 1-3 times a match to 10-12, at least. I can still heal for 2-300K though, which leads me to my next point.

 

(Ha, I bet you thought this was a qq post)

 

We need to adjust. Most Seers are used to bubbling, diving into the action, AoE healing, spamming deliverance, noble sacrificing back our Force, and repeating. Can't do that any more. We need to take a ranged dps approach to healing. Stay out of notice, try to sit back, constantly be on the move...

 

Use your CCs, slows, and knockbacks. Run away, even at the chance of a /giggle from the enemy. Find a tank friend to guard you. Start getting good dps to queue up with you.

 

I don't understand the rage quitting some Seers are doing. I know it's different, but we're still viable. Even in a secondary role. It's a matter of adjustment, changing the way we approach pvp. It's certainly not the op we're used to, but it doesn't mean we're bad.

 

Also, now that everyone knows about our class being bludgeoned with the nerf bat - step up... take this as an opportunity to show your server your skill level. "Yeah my class sucks, but I'm still awesome".

 

 

Anyone focused down by 2-3 people is going to die if no one peels them off. You seem to notice that.

 

Thats the way the game works people. Healers aren't supposed to tank multiple people and laugh about it.

[amnie]

As a Sage Seer in full Rakata gear - and half BM gear - I stepped into a warzone last night...

 

I'd like to think I've been one of the better healers on my server. I've downed 10/10HM and 9/10 NM (Soa!!! ). I was used to have that unkillable feeling when I pvp'd. I loved it. Being appreciated for my heals at the end of a match and getting voted mvp. 500k was easy. For fun I'd start wearing my Rakata gear in there, then custom gear, it didn't matter.

 

We were OP. Definitely. We knew it, too. It shouldn't be this easy. Of course we could still get rolled from time to time, but for the majority of our pvp experiences we've been tops.

 

Then came 1.2 - Taking into account my new UI - I was fumbling around like a newbie 50. 2.2 second cast Deliverance was interrupted constantly (as it should be). I decided to turn into a bubble/Salvation bot. When people noticed I was healing - it didnt take long for focus fire to burn me down quick. I went from dying 1-3 times a match to 10-12, at least. I can still heal for 2-300K though, which leads me to my next point.

 

(Ha, I bet you thought this was a qq post)

 

We need to adjust. Most Seers are used to bubbling, diving into the action, AoE healing, spamming deliverance, noble sacrificing back our Force, and repeating. Can't do that any more. We need to take a ranged dps approach to healing. Stay out of notice, try to sit back, constantly be on the move...

 

Use your CCs, slows, and knockbacks. Run away, even at the chance of a /giggle from the enemy. Find a tank friend to guard you. Start getting good dps to queue up with you.

 

I don't understand the rage quitting some Seers are doing. I know it's different, but we're still viable. Even in a secondary role. It's a matter of adjustment, changing the way we approach pvp. It's certainly not the op we're used to, but it doesn't mean we're bad.

 

Also, now that everyone knows about our class being bludgeoned with the nerf bat - step up... take this as an opportunity to show your server your skill level. "Yeah my class sucks, but I'm still awesome".

 

how often does the other team focus fire you while dragging the tank who's guarding you away? how many off-heals do you get from healer who know you are 'top notch'? because I can assure you, while people on my server know I'm 'somewhat ok' in what I'm doing, they always focus me first and only go for the 1-2 'really good' healer our server has after I'm dead. I am .always. in focus fire, and usually I don't get guarded at all when either of these two other healers are in my ops. (unless I am only with guildies obviously, but I usually enjoy PUG pvp... yes, yes I do)

[Dietra]

As a Sage Seer in full Rakata gear - and half BM gear - I stepped into a warzone last night...

 

I'd like to think I've been one of the better healers on my server. I've downed 10/10HM and 9/10 NM (Soa!!! ). I was used to have that unkillable feeling when I pvp'd. I loved it. Being appreciated for my heals at the end of a match and getting voted mvp. 500k was easy. For fun I'd start wearing my Rakata gear in there, then custom gear, it didn't matter.

 

We were OP. Definitely. We knew it, too. It shouldn't be this easy. Of course we could still get rolled from time to time, but for the majority of our pvp experiences we've been tops.

 

Then came 1.2 - Taking into account my new UI - I was fumbling around like a newbie 50. 2.2 second cast Deliverance was interrupted constantly (as it should be). I decided to turn into a bubble/Salvation bot. When people noticed I was healing - it didnt take long for focus fire to burn me down quick. I went from dying 1-3 times a match to 10-12, at least. I can still heal for 2-300K though, which leads me to my next point.

 

(Ha, I bet you thought this was a qq post)

 

We need to adjust. Most Seers are used to bubbling, diving into the action, AoE healing, spamming deliverance, noble sacrificing back our Force, and repeating. Can't do that any more. We need to take a ranged dps approach to healing. Stay out of notice, try to sit back, constantly be on the move...

 

Use your CCs, slows, and knockbacks. Run away, even at the chance of a /giggle from the enemy. Find a tank friend to guard you. Start getting good dps to queue up with you.

 

I don't understand the rage quitting some Seers are doing. I know it's different, but we're still viable. Even in a secondary role. It's a matter of adjustment, changing the way we approach pvp. It's certainly not the op we're used to, but it doesn't mean we're bad.

 

Also, now that everyone knows about our class being bludgeoned with the nerf bat - step up... take this as an opportunity to show your server your skill level. "Yeah my class sucks, but I'm still awesome".

 

I agree with this post completely... I know I have done some QQ on the expertise % change in PVP. But above pretty much describes my experience last night... Although I'm probably not among the best healers on my server... I'm also not a bad healer I think. I could get scores of 500k healing in voidstar. But that's besides the point...

 

I was used to a certain play style in PVP with the old skills I had... those have been changed and it needs adjusting on my part too. I admit I was a bit disoriented by it... I need to find a way to make it work for me again... and I will... I refuse to be defeated :-)

 

Would be nice though... if other people in the team would step up and defend the healer a bit more on occassion... I've seen too many pug wz's in which my "team" just expected me to fend for myself and still heal them...

[Caeliux]

As a Sage Seer in full Rakata gear - and half BM gear - I stepped into a warzone last night...

 

I'd like to think I've been one of the better healers on my server. I've downed 10/10HM and 9/10 NM (Soa!!! ). I was used to have that unkillable feeling when I pvp'd. I loved it. Being appreciated for my heals at the end of a match and getting voted mvp. 500k was easy. For fun I'd start wearing my Rakata gear in there, then custom gear, it didn't matter.

 

We were OP. Definitely. We knew it, too. It shouldn't be this easy. Of course we could still get rolled from time to time, but for the majority of our pvp experiences we've been tops.

 

Then came 1.2 - Taking into account my new UI - I was fumbling around like a newbie 50. 2.2 second cast Deliverance was interrupted constantly (as it should be). I decided to turn into a bubble/Salvation bot. When people noticed I was healing - it didnt take long for focus fire to burn me down quick. I went from dying 1-3 times a match to 10-12, at least. I can still heal for 2-300K though, which leads me to my next point.

 

(Ha, I bet you thought this was a qq post)

 

We need to adjust. Most Seers are used to bubbling, diving into the action, AoE healing, spamming deliverance, noble sacrificing back our Force, and repeating. Can't do that any more. We need to take a ranged dps approach to healing. Stay out of notice, try to sit back, constantly be on the move...

 

Use your CCs, slows, and knockbacks. Run away, even at the chance of a /giggle from the enemy. Find a tank friend to guard you. Start getting good dps to queue up with you.

 

I don't understand the rage quitting some Seers are doing. I know it's different, but we're still viable. Even in a secondary role. It's a matter of adjustment, changing the way we approach pvp. It's certainly not the op we're used to, but it doesn't mean we're bad.

 

Also, now that everyone knows about our class being bludgeoned with the nerf bat - step up... take this as an opportunity to show your server your skill level. "Yeah my class sucks, but I'm still awesome".

 

^ Might be best post in this thread.

 

+1

[Galic]

I agree with this post completely... I know I have done some QQ on the expertise % change in PVP. But above pretty much describes my experience last night... Although I'm probably not among the best healers on my server... I'm also not a bad healer I think. I could get scores of 500k healing in voidstar. But that's besides the point...

 

I was used to a certain play style in PVP with the old skills I had... those have been changed and it needs adjusting on my part too. I admit I was a bit disoriented by it... I need to find a way to make it work for me again... and I will... I refuse to be defeated :-)

 

Would be nice though... if other people in the team would step up and defend the healer a bit more on occassion... I've seen too many pug wz's in which my "team" just expected me to fend for myself and still heal them...

 

Thanks - I wont lie though - I was definitely crying "I'm broken" yesterday haha. But I took time to think about it, and my Sentinel friend (if you can remember when Sentinels/Marauders didnt own the WZs) put it in perspective. I also have a 50 BM Gunslinger, so I kind of took my sharpshooter approach to healing, and to be honest, it wasnt so bad.

[Phaedrynn]

Then Came 1.2

Then came 1.2. I heard rumors that it was going to suck. Brushed it off as over exaggeration and was excited about a lot of the other features. The commando nerfs looked harsh, but I was like I'm going to get through this. I didn't put points in med zone reactive shield and was unkillable as is so I'll be fine. Or so I thought.

 

So you though being "unkillalbe" was fine? I think I see the first problem here.

 

The damage buffs on dps and the med pack nerf came as a tidal wave against us. Compounded from the fact that Imperial 4 man groups have a lot better gear on average versus my servers Rep groups. I'm not exaggerating on the gear difference. I recognize the same Imps and guilds and groups on my server. It's kind of nice having that tight community. But that's digressing. Another strange anomaly of our server is our side doesn't have a lot of great dpsers. Empire had the DPS, we had tons of tanks and heals. It is not abnormal on our server to have 4 healers in a warzone. I've seen a game with 6. This lead to disaster in 1.2 as heavy organized 4 man Imp groups decimated a weird dynamic that used to play out on our server of having long games where Rep side couldn't kill, but wouldn't die. Now it was Rep side just dies.

 

And here is the second problem. You seem to think that class ballance should revolve around your ability to form a balanced team?

 

I stopped reading at this point.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Phaedrynn

[Uchoo]

This thread is pretty far out there lol.

 

First, yeah healers got nerfed. Was there a design intention? Of course.

 

Does anyone in this thread have the ability to figure out a solution? I read 3 pages and gave up.

 

Alright fine, here's your answer: Every class defensive CD's, offensive CD's, CC and burst.

 

On my Jugg, I NEED healing a lot less than I used to. My main healer is bummed because her force regen sucks, but again, I don't have a very difficult time making life much easier for her. Same goes for our dps. We are forced to play smarter. More importantly, our opposition is forced to play smarter. Generally, they all have the same feelings as the first 3 pages, so we've been winning a lot haha!

 

Now enough trolling.

 

What this did for healers: You are now incentivized to cleanse. Ok, there's no good way to track debuffs in party frames. It sucks, it needs a UI update.

 

Will an Anni Marauder cry if you cleanse his 1k dps dots off? Yes he will, and you probably won't die.

 

Will a Carnage Marauder cry if you stun/kite him while Gore is up so he can't hurt you? Yes, yes he will.

 

Will a powertech cry if you cleanse TD or any of his burn effects? He'll fall over and throw a tantrum.

 

 

Now that we've established a few baseline points from a person who is used to being VERY objective about changes (I played Warhammer since day 1 until SWTOR came out), maybe we can play the game instead of being keyboard warriors?

[Khoraji]

As a Sage Seer in full Rakata gear - and half BM gear - I stepped into a warzone last night...

 

I'd like to think I've been one of the better healers on my server. I've downed 10/10HM and 9/10 NM (Soa!!! ). I was used to have that unkillable feeling when I pvp'd. I loved it. Being appreciated for my heals at the end of a match and getting voted mvp. 500k was easy. For fun I'd start wearing my Rakata gear in there, then custom gear, it didn't matter.

 

We were OP. Definitely. We knew it, too. It shouldn't be this easy. Of course we could still get rolled from time to time, but for the majority of our pvp experiences we've been tops.

 

Then came 1.2 - Taking into account my new UI - I was fumbling around like a newbie 50. 2.2 second cast Deliverance was interrupted constantly (as it should be). I decided to turn into a bubble/Salvation bot. When people noticed I was healing - it didnt take long for focus fire to burn me down quick. I went from dying 1-3 times a match to 10-12, at least. I can still heal for 2-300K though, which leads me to my next point.

 

(Ha, I bet you thought this was a qq post)

 

We need to adjust. Most Seers are used to bubbling, diving into the action, AoE healing, spamming deliverance, noble sacrificing back our Force, and repeating. Can't do that any more. We need to take a ranged dps approach to healing. Stay out of notice, try to sit back, constantly be on the move...

 

Use your CCs, slows, and knockbacks. Run away, even at the chance of a /giggle from the enemy. Find a tank friend to guard you. Start getting good dps to queue up with you.

 

I don't understand the rage quitting some Seers are doing. I know it's different, but we're still viable. Even in a secondary role. It's a matter of adjustment, changing the way we approach pvp. It's certainly not the op we're used to, but it doesn't mean we're bad.

 

Also, now that everyone knows about our class being bludgeoned with the nerf bat - step up... take this as an opportunity to show your server your skill level. "Yeah my class sucks, but I'm still awesome".

 

Nice post, just as a side note: part of your problem in 1.2 is the fact that your wearing rakata. Full pvp gear is the way to go now.

[Galic]

Nice post, just as a side note: part of your problem in 1.2 is the fact that your wearing rakata. Full pvp gear is the way to go now.

 

I said I only queued with Rakata on because I was bored - I ususally wear full BM gear

[Stupster]

Just a quick note to agree with what most healers have said. Why heal, might as well be a dps. Woot for Sage/Inq dps, pointless to heal now.

[Vetril]

But I can't servers are down for 239487394 hours for no reason!

 

XD

 

Easily the quip of the week.

[Khoraji]

Just a quick note to agree with what most healers have said. Why heal, might as well be a dps. Woot for Sage/Inq dps, pointless to heal now.

 

I dont know about that. From my experience last night I am still outhealing any DPS.

[Astarica]

I dont know about that. From my experience last night I am still outhealing any DPS.

 

There's a huge difference between being able to outheal any one person's DPS and whether you'll live against that guy 1on1.

 

Though even before 1.2, a good DPS pretty much always wins against a healer 1on1. They can't win 1on2 (guarded), but that's 1on2.

[SKNugget]

maybe we can play the game instead of being keyboard warriors?

 

"Keyboard Warrior" is the group buff cast by any company when its servers are down.

[vollkel]

thank you for this thread, Darkammo!