A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

[Wesgile]

Like say if 4 dps = 3 dps and 1 support. Why would you roll the support?? No one in their right mind would. It's the same reason you don't take 4 dps to a pve instance and then scratch your head when you wipe.

3 dps + 1 support wins against 4 dps even in 1.2.

no, it doesnt mean the support should keep all 3 all alive all the time.

[Arkerus]

No, there have a mind set that there addition to a group should be useful.

 

If you roll a support class and your addition to a team of DPS doesn't improve the group. Why the hell would you want to be a support class????

 

Like say if 4 dps = 3 dps and 1 support. Why would you roll the support?? No one in their right mind would. It's the same reason you don't take 4 dps to a pve instance and then scratch your head when you wipe.

 

That didn't even make sense.

 

This isn't PvE. If healers can DPS and Heal themselves on the basis of 1v1 against a DPS, they will never lose and thus cannot be beaten. Ramp that up to multiple healers and the problem scales.

 

 

Throw a tank on those healers and now they can't be touched.

 

Healers have to eventually die for PvP to even work right.

[kiwoo]

I would agree. With my marauder (or even my slinger, whatever) I now can make sorcs and sages implode in very little time. That means they have to be proactive to survive: most just try to outheal me (won't work), or they just run away (which just gives me extra time to bash them on the head without retaliation).

 

Still, the easiest way to shake a marauder off your back is to lead him into your team. At that point HE will implode, not you.

 

I find the guy who spits out stuff about karma, *****es, snipers and DPS quite amusing. I guess he raged about getting ganked for a while and now is past it, but still sour. Truth is we DPS don't care if we die. Or at least, I don't care. It comes with the game, and I walk into a WZ expecting to die a number of times. For me, it's all about making others die. As long as I can kill people more times than I die (or even just kill priority targets a few times), I'm good about it.

 

But starting a war zone expecting to never die and to keep up most of your team mates is just unrealistic. You want to tone down your expectations, if that's your goal.

 

So your saying a healer has to rely on their team to survive a DPSer, but a DPSer doesnt need to rely on anyone else to kill a healer.

 

And you think thats balanced?

[Misaki-chan]

Since you deleted my post for no real good reason what so ever =(, I'll put it here now. Maybe some agree... Maybe some don't.

 

Before you read this I would like you to know this is only my views and opinion on the current state of 1.2 pvp from a sage healers point of view nothing else.... Different classes all see things one way or another =), That and English isn't my main so please get past it if theres a few mistakes here.

 

I would like to first off point out that, Yes i do understand that healers did need to be fine tuned before 1.2. That being said were here in 1.2 now and I see healers saying things about healing not being good enough in its Current state. Needless to say, I have a problem with this. It's not that healing itself isn't good enough.... It's seeing how quickly people die even with me healing them. I see people die within 2-3 gcds when I can pump out 800+k healing in a wz ... Well in my eyes i see no point in doing that healing if it has almost zero impact on a person being able to live. I see this patch as more of a zerg fest style game play (I thought it was a bit zergy before with the way resolve worked before to be honest now its just over the top.)

 

Reverse side is - I see a lot of people who think this patch is much better due to the fact they say people could never die before. This is where in my opinion it comes down to what style pvp you prefer, I can say I honestly don't enjoy fights at the current state of the game. I've also seen things like it takes higher skill because people can kill each other much easier now. Maybe that could be a case, but in my honest opinion if the fights were slightly longer where crowd control actually means more than is his movement impairing / stun removal cd off cooldown or not to score a kill.

 

So i guess i want to say that I sort of sit in the middle of everything...Where I believe that Pre 1.2 healers were slightly to good and did need some fine tuning in how some things worked (In my case I did think sages energy regen source was far to good) and the overall pace was most likely to slow when a healer had guards, etc. Now we have what I think is almost the polar opposite of before where people drop much to fast and DPS has become to a role where you start to think...Why even bring a healer when a dps would be of more use in his place.

 

For my final thoughts I guess i just really wanted to say I don't think 1.2's problem is really healing in itself, I believe that the (pace of combat i want to say?) is just to fast in its current state to a point where healing has to little of an effect on how fast someone dies.

 

So i just want to ask others around here if they see it this way or even how you think it is (maybe you think its perfect now?) Tell me why.

I'm curious to see real thoughts instead of just angry posts to each other

 

 

--Handchoi from wound in the force

 

PS I wish i could this from all 3 healers point of view...But sadly I don't have them all at max level.

[Lt_Latency]

That didn't even make sense.

 

This isn't PvE. If healers can DPS and Heal themselves on the basis of 1v1 against a DPS, they will never lose and thus cannot be beaten. Ramp that up to multiple healers and the problem scales.

 

 

Throw a tank on those healers and now they can't be touched.

 

Healers have to eventually die for PvP to even work right.

 

Yes it does, If support doesn't compliment a group Why would you be one???? pretty simple.

 

Healers should be able to out heal you but go OOR if all the do is try to heal.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Lt_Latency

[Lt_Latency]

lets say you have 2 class to pick from.

 

A dps and a healer.

 

If the dps can kill the healer quickly while he is focusing on healing under what circumstances would you take the healer to be on your team??

 

I would say there is 0 reason to ever put the healer on the team.

 

this is a PvE vs PvP problem. Healers should have strong heals they out heal dps but have a finite amount of resources before they run out of power and die. The problem is healers also need to be able to heal long PvE raids, So these to areas class for healer balance big time.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Lt_Latency

[Exiled-Phoenix]

TL;DR

 

Healers were OP in pvp, any group with more then 2 healers was unstoppable.

 

Deal with it.

[mikegr]

TL;DR

 

Healers were OP in pvp, any group with more then 2 healers was unstoppable.

 

Deal with it.

 

So now any group with 2 healers is an automatic lose. This really doesn't make any sense to me. Why would anyone play a healer or want a healer in their group?

[Mostock]

ok my story .

 

BH bodyguatd :

after 1.2 patch i had usualy something between 240-460K healing done ( it greatly depends on curent WZ and time spend there) .The change on heat is pain but i can live with it, the most frustrating moment is that i feel like burden to team, sure i can heal someone, i can even hold him up for limited time againts 2 dps (CC one og them and then heal him) but hey why would I do that if I can go to arsenal and with MEDIC GEAR my heatseeker missle CRIT fot 5,2-5,7K DMG.

I dont even mention that getting medals are far far esier then as bodyguard (any healer sure know it), sadly Im must be some kind of masochist becouse I dont like arsenal gameplay and return back to heler.

[Darthbluginal]

Made a differant thread. Seems alot of the real discussion is going on in here,

 

This is what I would like to see

 

Sorc/Cons- Increased force regen per force we have or something along the lines of that lifetap is just a terrible and unfun regen mechanic

 

- Since we have light armor allow a defensive CD, Make it slow us by 30% but reduce damage by 30%. Sprint goes on CD while this ability is active. It just makes sense for a light armor class to have a defensive CD, but stacking a 30% dmg reduction and sprint would be a little crazy, This would force us to choose between mobility or dmg reduction, decisions are fun and clutch.

 

Force armor - Make it protection. Not healing, by definition, Force armor is preventing damage, therefor it is protection. having this allows us to reach the healing values that others can. Right now I feel like it is nearly impossible for my class to obtain 15 medals. Also, this shield is completely changing peoples out look on sorc healing, They think our numbers are crazy, but alot of those numbers should be considered protection.

 

Commando - Allow Hammershot while in combat support cell stance to change color based on what crystal you have.

 

On top of this I think + dmg from expertise needs to be scaled back a little while healing scaled ahead a little, The pace of BG's is just way too high. Just as I discussed in a previous thread about having 80 deaths across the team in 1 WZ while having 4 healers.

 

Posting this in both the PvP thread as well as suggestion thread. I find theres no discussion about topincs in the suggestion thread, but i would like to hope these changes are passed forward.

[Inemes]

So now any group with 2 healers is an automatic lose. This really doesn't make any sense to me. Why would anyone play a healer or want a healer in their group?

 

Masochists!

 

I am a healer, I do que half of the time alone, the other half is with a premade. I cant say that I was OP before 1.2 though. Yes, I could kite 3 ppl, but if they could CC me - I was dead as fast as I am now. After 1.2 hit the servers I can sometimes kite max 2 ppl (ofc if they are not mara - now those are OP creatures).

 

I was using a lot LoS, I am doing it now even more. Yep, some DPSers can easily ignore me and kill the person that I heal, then come and kill me - but sometimes I really pull the person from the grave and turn the game, not as often and before though.

 

We just have to get used to the new way of PvP healing and I wish that more ppl will start guarding the healers coz it REALLY MATTERS for us!

[DarthMudja]

As a healer who is gearing its even worse. Not only are you marked by the good (read: premade) teams, having less than full BM is just a death sentence.

[Darthbluginal]

Masochists!

 

I am a healer, I do que half of the time alone, the other half is with a premade. I cant say that I was OP before 1.2 though. Yes, I could kite 3 ppl, but if they could CC me - I was dead as fast as I am now. After 1.2 hit the servers I can sometimes kite max 2 ppl (ofc if they are not mara - now those are OP creatures).

 

I was using a lot LoS, I am doing it now even more. Yep, some DPSers can easily ignore me and kill the person that I heal, then come and kill me - but sometimes I really pull the person from the grave and turn the game, not as often and before though.

 

We just have to get used to the new way of PvP healing and I wish that more ppl will start guarding the healers coz it REALLY MATTERS for us!

 

Ive said this several times, But if you could kite 3 people pre 1.2....Then they were horrible. Since resolve is not affected by roots/slows, they obviously werent working together or timing there slows/roots with bursts. 1 DPS, yea sure. but 2 or more is a dead give away that they were horrible.

 

 

And for the rest, Healing clearly does not matter anymore. I have been in a match with 4 healers on our team total. Our team still had about 80 deaths in 10 minutes. We did over 1 million healing, but no one could stay alive. There is no getting used to this. If you look at how Damage is scaling higher than healing with expertise, as well as power (1power =0.23 dmg while 1 power =0.17 healing) this is only going to get worse.

 

There is no "getting used to this" it should be fun for everyone in this game, I enjoy healing and I will push through this, but there is no way that this is balanced.

 

The only thing I am seeing that is too hard to out heal is Force user DPS. And you can tell by the amount of people playing them, everyone is maining their force users and there representation in the WZ's has gone even higher.

[NoTomorrow]

I haven't see a single unbiased healer in this thread. You are basically arguing that HPS > DPS, you want to lock out an entire player with your heals. Since nobody can die, the party that captured first the node, can just sit on it and keep it indefinitely.

 

I even remember playing WZ for 120s (pre1.2) when we were outnumbered but we could get first the central node on civil war. Guess what, they had no chance of taking it back for 90s despite having 2 more players than us.

Edited April 18, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[Darthbluginal]

I haven't see a single unbiased healer in this thread. You are basically arguing that HPS > DPS, you want to lock out an entire player with your heals. Since nobody can die, the party that captured first the node, can just sit on it and keep it indefinitely.

 

I even remember playing WZ for 120s (pre1.2) when we were outnumbered but we could get first the central node on civil war. Guess what, they had no chance of taking it back for 90s despite having 2 more players than us.

 

I have a Maurader, And I play with DPS friends who give me there opinions of how it is playing as a DPS.

 

Bottom line is, to kill anyone with 3/8 of them being healers, it should take skill/coordination/and CC. Not just ZERG focus, that leaves little time for actual game play. Doing it my way opens up the game, people are alive for longer and the true skill comes out.

[symke]

I've never tried healing class so I can't comment on changes that came with 1.2.

But considering I am fairly new player I would like for you guys to help me understand this class logic.

I am Sentinel. Pure DPS with medium armor and of course I know I am going to die a lot. And I do. If I get focused I can die in 5 seconds. One stun after another and damage the whole time. It takes two or three people but it is easily done. And I understand this is acceptable for my class.

 

What I don't understand is what is the role of a tank. Isn't a tank supposed to tank and by saying that I mean ... guard? What are tanks doing in WZs? Aren't they supposed to be protectors of healers?

Do you healers get any protection while in WZs?

Is it maybe possible that so many healers die so fast, because they are NOT protected as (correct me if I am wrong) they should have been? Do you healers start your WZ with words like "Healer here. Any tanks able to guard me?"? Or something similar. You can even be little demanding considering you are healers. Demand (politely) protection at the start of the WZ.

 

DPS is alone and doing damage. Tank and healer are a team working together on healing team and keeping healer alive. Is this not how the game is supposed to work?

[TipsyDrow]

I've never tried healing class so I can't comment on changes that came with 1.2.

But considering I am fairly new player I would like for you guys to help me understand this class logic.

I am Sentinel. Pure DPS with medium armor and of course I know I am going to die a lot. And I do. If I get focused I can die in 5 seconds. One stun after another and damage the whole time. It takes two or three people but it is easily done. And I understand this is acceptable for my class.

 

What I don't understand is what is the role of a tank. Isn't a tank supposed to tank and by saying that I mean ... guard? What are tanks doing in WZs? Aren't they supposed to be protectors of healers?

Do you healers get any protection while in WZs?

Is it maybe possible that so many healers die so fast, because they are NOT protected as (correct me if I am wrong) they should have been? Do you healers start your WZ with words like "Healer here. Any tanks able to guard me?"? Or something similar. You can even be little demanding considering you are healers. Demand (politely) protection at the start of the WZ.

 

DPS is alone and doing damage. Tank and healer are a team working together on healing team and keeping healer alive. Is this not how the game is supposed to work?

 

We die fast even while guarded and and the tank taunting the one attacking us. The changes are simply absurd. DPS think it's fine and dandy to do 6-8k crits but we as healers aren't supposed to be able heal the damage, we're just supposed to die. It's ok for mara's,pyros,mercs and ops to do insane damage, but it's not ok for us to heal....

[Darthbluginal]

I've never tried healing class so I can't comment on changes that came with 1.2.

But considering I am fairly new player I would like for you guys to help me understand this class logic.

I am Sentinel. Pure DPS with medium armor and of course I know I am going to die a lot. And I do. If I get focused I can die in 5 seconds. One stun after another and damage the whole time. It takes two or three people but it is easily done. And I understand this is acceptable for my class.

 

What I don't understand is what is the role of a tank. Isn't a tank supposed to tank and by saying that I mean ... guard? What are tanks doing in WZs? Aren't they supposed to be protectors of healers?

Do you healers get any protection while in WZs?

Is it maybe possible that so many healers die so fast, because they are NOT protected as (correct me if I am wrong) they should have been? Do you healers start your WZ with words like "Healer here. Any tanks able to guard me?"? Or something similar. You can even be little demanding considering you are healers. Demand (politely) protection at the start of the WZ.

 

DPS is alone and doing damage. Tank and healer are a team working together on healing team and keeping healer alive. Is this not how the game is supposed to work?

 

You are absolutly correct. It should be a team effort and coordination. But lets say there is 5 dps 1 tank 2 healers. With 2 dps on one healer ( the one with gaurd) with 2 stuns (after that, resolve is full) and interupts, There is no way to keep that healer up. Even with a second healer healing him and gaurd on him. It is just impossible. Especially if it is 2 mauraders/sentinals.

 

If I want to live vs 1 dps I should be able to, If 2 DPS are on me, it should take 1 person assisting me to nullify this, and same with 3v3. But right now, 2 DPS can target someone and take them down so fast and efficiently that it does not matter how much effort,skill, and teamwork is going into keeping them alive.

 

What has happaned in the past is that there would be 3 healers and 1 tank gaurding who ever is being targeted, 1-2 people would split dps on the healers and the rest would be fighting DPS and complain that they cannot kill anyone. I played with a group of 4 for much of pre 1.2 (1 healer 3 dps) All 3 of them would focus a healer and be able to kill him easily or use CC on additional healers, I would help out with this by timing my CC's. But whenever I was attacked, it was 1 person, I would be able to freecast all I wanted, with once in a while ppl attacking me. Then people would complain I was invincible.

 

My rambling point is, Keeping someone alive, should be as much effort as killing someone. I work 10x as hard as my friends to keep any of them alive than they do to kill someone. Even many DPS'ers that I have had converstations with all agree that the pace of the WZ's needs to be slowed down. THis would be done by Re balancing the amount burst damage and healing.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Darthbluginal

[CrimsonFire]

Love the changes, healing was way too strong pre-patch.

[CaptainInsano]

I never had trouble soloing healers as a Marauder pre 1.2 except for Commandos who had their Shield up. I know plenty of Assassins and Powertechs who could accomplish the same thing. 6 second interrupt helps a lot. The problem was never healers on their own, it was healer plus tank synergy. Healer vs DPS was actually very fair pre 1.2, however tanks had the power to make healers unkillable. Now healers with tank support are a bit more manageable, but solo healers drop faster than a sack of bricks. They need to get the balance right. Healers should be able to stall for a long time against 1 melee DPS, but they shouldn't be able to tank entire teams with tank support like they could previously.

[Inemes]

Darthbluginal they will never rebalance it. Even in this topic 60% of the posts are from people that never played a healing class and they just write (like CrimsonFire stated above): "Healers were OP, now the healing is nice, 1.2 is awesome"

 

If BioWare fix the problem that we have now - then they will receive zillions of e-tears from those ppl that can only spam 2 - 3 buttons and smash heads. I guess its a nice feeling, never tried it and never will, coz I am a healer. Been a healer in some other MMOs and I can say that I DO enjoy keep people alive and ... well lets say it - we do cheat and fight the virtual Death itself

 

EDIT: thanks CaptainInsano for the honest words that u just said! Kuddos and I totally agree with u, I had problems with Mara, I still do, now its a bit more painful.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Inemes

[CrimsonFire]

Darthbluginal they will never rebalance it. Even in this topic 60% of the posts are from people that never played a healing class and they just write (like the person above me): "Healers were OP, now the healing is nice, 1.2 is awesome"

 

If BioWare fix the problem that we have now - then they will receive zillions of e-tears from those ppl that can only spam 2 - 3 buttons and smash heads. I guess its a nice feeling, never tried it and never will, coz I am a healer. Been a healer in some other MMOs and I can say that I DO enjoy keep people alive and ... well lets say it - we do cheat and fight the virtual Death itself

 

Actually, I've played all classes to 50 (Imperial). Not every post has to be an essay to convey one's opinion. However, I can fill in that as Huttball and Voidstar was once without timed doors, by game design implementing the timers is proof that ppl weren't dying fast enough so an artificial bandaid was needed.

 

Healing should make a difference but not make or break encounters. 1v1 vs a healing class, the healing class should not be able to outheal my dps AND have more energy than me, it just makes a very boring stalemate type combat mechanic. All WZs are designed around ppl actually dying, it's the core purpose of PvP to begin with.

 

Healing not being intuitive enough is another story and not what I'm commenting on.

Edited April 18, 2012 by CrimsonFire

[symke]

You are absolutly correct. It should be a team effort and coordination. But lets say there is 5 dps 1 tank 2 healers. With 2 dps on one healer ( the one with gaurd) with 2 stuns (after that, resolve is full) and interupts, There is no way to keep that healer up. Even with a second healer healing him and gaurd on him. It is just impossible. Especially if it is 2 mauraders/sentinals.

 

If I want to live vs 1 dps I should be able to, If 2 DPS are on me, it should take 1 person assisting me to nullify this, and same with 3v3. But right now, 2 DPS can target someone and take them down so fast and efficiently that it does not matter how much effort,skill, and teamwork is going into keeping them alive.

 

What has happaned in the past is that there would be 3 healers and 1 tank gaurding who ever is being targeted, 1-2 people would split dps on the healers and the rest would be fighting DPS and complain that they cannot kill anyone. I played with a group of 4 for much of pre 1.2 (1 healer 3 dps) All 3 of them would focus a healer and be able to kill him easily or use CC on additional healers, I would help out with this by timing my CC's. But whenever I was attacked, it was 1 person, I would be able to freecast all I wanted, with once in a while ppl attacking me. Then people would complain I was invincible.

 

My rambling point is, Keeping someone alive, should be as much effort as killing someone. I work 10x as hard as my friends to keep any of them alive than they do to kill someone. Even many DPS'ers that I have had converstations with all agree that the pace of the WZ's needs to be slowed down. THis would be done by Re balancing the amount burst damage and healing.

 

If this is the case, I agree. Healer with tank guarding him/her should survive against 2 DPS attacks. But just survive. In this scenario neither healer nor tank should not be able to do anything else but keep themselves alive. While doing little to medium damage to 2 DPSs attacking them. This would be a proper stalemate. But for something like this you need 4 equally good players. How many times does this happen?

 

On the other hand there is something like awareness of the other team. I am one of those Sents that focus healers. And do you know what happens when I play against good team? I can successfully attack and kill their healer one or maybe two times. What happens next I can only imagine but it looks like their healer "reports" me.

"Hey guys. This DPS is constantly focusing me. Kick his sorry *** into oblivion, please".

And it happens. Every time I jump this healer after that, I get focused by two, three or four of them and die in max 5 seconds. And die, and die. Die a lot. But my job was done. Even if I got killed 12(!) times during a WZ.

 

I hope you healers get some compensation, because I would hate to see your numbers diminish. You are essential, after all.

[TipsyDrow]

Actually, I've played all classes to 50 (Imperial). Not every post has to be an essay to convey one's opinion. However, I can fill in that as Huttball and Voidstar was once without timed doors, by game design implementing the timers is proof that ppl weren't dying fast enough so an artificial bandaid was needed.

 

Healing should make a difference but not make or break encounters. 1v1 vs a healing class, the healing class should not be able to outheal my dps AND have more energy than me, it just makes a very boring stalemate type combat mechanic. All WZs are designed around ppl actually dying, it's the core purpose of PvP to begin with.

 

Healing not being intuitive enough is another story and not what I'm commenting on.

Yes, yes we should be able to heal through one dpser. What kind of twisted logic are you trying to use? We can't kill, we heal. Therefore we should be able to keep ourselves alive against one dpser, (Taking into account skill of course)I don't care how boring you think it is. We healers are finding it rather boring to be killed in 3 seconds by one dpser.

[ocping]

Healing needed a nerf pre-1.2 but the amount is too big.

 

I'm at 1100++ expertise and I remember DPS at 21+% whilst heal bonus is only 11+%. If you look at this alone, you'd see that to min/max, simply go DPS since you are 100% more efficient at doing your specific throughput (i.e. DPS) than say if you're pure heals.

 

PVP healing bonus from expertise needs a buff, probably to 15-16% levels. The gap is just too big at the moment.