Mar/Sents

[Sir_Toothless]

4 sec immune to all CC and knockbacks after charge as vengeance jugg.

 

Have fun.

 

Last I checked, the jug havving immune to CC and knockbacks didn't prevent him from being taunted, or prevent you from popping a defensive cooldown.

[Stavroz]

If you stand there long enough for a full ravage/MS to go off you've got what's coming to you. And I don't even play a Sent/Mara.

 

This game has a record breaking number of CC's with a "resolve" system that is to put it diplomatically not the best.

 

This makes moving out of the way in most cases easier said then done.

[Sir_Toothless]

Personally I'd set aside dodge purely for master strike and leave the rest for their defensive skills.

 

I love it even more when there's some nice cover around that I can roll into after a tendon blast and watch em crawl over to me while copping a faceful of charged.

 

This.

 

Seriously if you can't handle ravage/master strike, you're doing it wrong.

[TheNinjaboy]

This thread is starting to deliver.

[Sir_Toothless]

You forgot the "NOT" in the middle of the last too words.

 

Because the only person I'll have fought throughout the ENTIRE Warzone will have been this one Sent/Mar.

 

It's not like I'll have anything on cooldown when the Sent/Mar starts the attack.

 

How does that even address the issue at all?

"Yeah I have an OP attack now if I get it off.

Don't worry though, just interrupt it every time! M'kay!"

 

Even some of the Sent/Mar's in this thread have said it's an OP move now.

 

- DH

 

Yep, because the only person that sent/marauder will have fought will be you. And every time the marauder/sent charges you, they won't have anything on cooldown either.

 

They can just leap on your face and hit all of their big hits forever.

 

c wut I did thar?

[Diet-Hutt]

no stuns/mezzes/vanish?

 

i would see your class trainer

 

See the posts that state it's irrelevant since you expect us all to manage EVERY CC ability around what a Sen/Mar is doing in a warzone full of attackers.

 

I shouldn't have to.

Just fix the attack so it isn't OP.

 

Saying "yeah it's OP, you just have to save all your cooldowns until you come across the guy with the attack" is a noobish solution that will likely lose you the match.

 

You haven't been in a warzone before, have you?

 

Oh and did you see the comment that stated "4 sec immune to all CC and knockbacks after charge as vengeance jugg"?

 

Negates a lot of options.

 

- DH

[SaerethDL]

So I am full BM and yesterday with the release of 1.2 I get 1 shot now with master strike/ravage abilities. Mar/Sents were fine before the buffs. Now they are way better than any other class. They have more single target dps and with their defensive cd's they have more durability than any other class.

 

What buffs did we get? because we suck in pvp now

[yningunay]

Marauder / Sentinels have to much tools compared to other classes. Using every one of them will put you ahead in 1on1 situations against all ACs except for Operatives (when they jump you) and to a lesser extend tank-specced, dmg-equipped Shadows / Assasins.

 

The flat 15% dmg increase (+8% specced) to Masterstrike is simply to much on demand burst in combination with watchman dots and merciless slash:

In a normal burst rotation the last hit of masterstrike crits for ~ 3.2k + 700 offhand. I am then able to fire a 4k (crit) + 800 offhand merc slash instantly + 4.5k (crit) dispatch one global cooldown later. Thats about 10k dmg at 35% critchance (with 3crits in a row + offhand hits it can go up to 15k) in what is felt as two hits (1 global), on a target that softened up by 1.2k bleeds and thanks to the 50% snare on cauterize has no chance to escape.

 

Imho Watchman specced Sentinels are atm overpowered. To much tools combined with to much damage.

However this is only a concern with the Watchman / Annihilation spec. By no means do i think Focus or Combat are overpowered. They simply lack the survivability outside of a 5 second cooldown and are quite easy to shut down mechanic wise... (evade Sweep / kick or stun when 100% pierce is up).

 

To bring Sentinels / Marauders back in line i would revert the 15% dmg buff on Masterstrike and bind it to the specced root talent in the Combat tree. Further i would recommend tieing MS being uninteruptable to either being in Shii-Cho or Ataru-form so its not usable as Watchman (or at least not so easy).

Last i would rip them of their 99% immunity bubble BUT as compensation make Vanish usable while CCed and remove all CC. Perhaps give Combat a 10% increase via talent to rebuke absorb (from 20 ==> 30) and Focus a cooldown reduction for said talent.

 

This coming from a top 20% Sentinel. At least i would consider myself as above average.

 

 

MfG Derra

 

 

EDIT: I am only talking about the dmg because the tools (eg interrupts healdebuff blind etc) are what makes the class interesting and fun to play in a pvp environment. So i would rather loose dmg then utility.

Edited April 13, 2012 by yningunay

[Diet-Hutt]

Yep, because the only person that sent/marauder will have fought will be you. And every time the marauder/sent charges you, they won't have anything on cooldown either.

 

They can just leap on your face and hit all of their big hits forever.

 

c wut I did thar?

 

Failed to address the problem by saying the OP I-WIN button might be on cooldown?

 

Yar.

 

- DH

Edited April 13, 2012 by Diet-Hutt

[LoL-K-Noob]

What buffs did we get? because we suck in pvp now

 

Keep lying, does you no good a nerf is still comming your way.

[MasterMaL]

Ravage does like 10k dmg now. It's op as ****. But yeah it won't one shot you, but it comes damn close if you stand in it.

 

It does crit that high if you get the full 3 ticks. I critted a 2800-3300-5100 single tick. Tripple crit are rather rare but it sure destroy someone pretty fast.

 

Mara/sent are broken right now no questions, they can use defensive cooldowns at key moments and become almost unkillable. They are god mode class especialy since everyone else but shadow/sins got nerfed to hell.

[Sir_Toothless]

See the posts that state it's irrelevant since you expect us all to manage EVERY CC ability around what a Sen/Mar is doing in a warzone full of attackers.

 

I shouldn't have to.

Just fix the attack so it isn't OP.

 

Saying "yeah it's OP, you just have to save all your cooldowns until you come across the guy with the attack" is a noobish solution that will likely lose you the match.

 

You haven't been in a warzone before, have you?

 

Oh and did you see the comment that stated "4 sec immune to all CC and knockbacks after charge as vengeance jugg"?

 

Negates a lot of options.

 

- DH

 

You seriously need to think more.

 

You speak as if ravage/master strike has no cooldown. Ravage/master strike have a longer cooldown than alot CC abilities in this game.

 

Sure jugs can get 4s of CC/KB immunity, but that doesn't prevent the jugg from being taunted or prevent you from popping a defensive CD to counter his Offensive CD.

[DweezillKagemand]

So what you are saying is that when gore is up, and you avoid the 10-20% mitigation from armor, ravage damage more than doubles

 

Cc them or knock back

 

Son, if I'm not mistaken, the 20% is rolled on each hit, Ravage hits 3 times. Hence 60% mitigation which is now ignored?

Edited April 13, 2012 by DweezillKagemand

[Diet-Hutt]

It does crit that high if you get the full 3 ticks. I critted a 2800-3300-5100 single tick. Tripple crit are rather rare but it sure destroy someone pretty fast.

 

Mara/sent are broken right now no questions, they can use defensive cooldowns at key moments and become almost unkillable. They are god mode class especialy since everyone else but shadow/sins got nerfed to hell.

 

^

 

Thank you for being honest.

 

I hope it makes the "JUST USZ STUNZ" crowd think a bit more before posting.

Did they even fix the resolve bar yet?

 

No one should have an I-WIN button at all.

Why would you want one even if it could be "blocked"?

 

- DH

[SaerethDL]

Keep lying, does you no good a nerf is still comming your way.

 

I'm lieing.. i use to do so much damage in warzones.. 400k avg. now i cant even get over 200k some warzones.. yeah im a liar lol

[Sir_Toothless]

Failed to address the problem by saying the OP I-WIN button might be on cooldown?

 

Yar.

 

- DH

I failed to address the problem because there isn't actually a problem. Just a lot of whinters.

 

If sents/marauders pop a an offensive cooldown then you can pop a CC/defensive cooldown. It's not hard, it's logic.

[Edryk]

That's a fair point, the game should be balanced on 1v1 foundation, and I think BW are working really hard to achieve this. There are juggs/guardians, assasins, sorcs/sages & smugglers/ops that have completely wrecked me 1v1, there were times when I would win but it wouldn't be this faceroll you are describing.

 

I would be lucky to walk away with 5-10% health in those situations. So I think BW are really close to nailing a balance everyone can agree on, but its threads like these, where data is ignored over hype and the volume of complaints like "that class is better than mine!"

- this is an MMO, it wouldn't be any decent of an MMO if there weren't a million posts of this nature every other week, but it doesnt justify the need for nerfs/buffs nor the need for further QQ which in the end, ultimately harms the game.

 

In these 1v1 situations a mara/sent will use every defensive cd they have, every CC they have and every slow/lock-up and accuracy debuff they have. This is part of the reason why we are so viable in a 1v1 situation, but we have to put all of our eggs in the one basket to do so. How is this any different to all the other melee classes? Or any pure DPS class for that matter?

 

Are you saying you run into a mara with ALL of your CD's up and you still get obliterated? I doubt it, you may get killed or you may have killed them, but I'd stake the remainder of my sub that it was a fairly even fight, and the both of you came close to defeat (obviously one closer than the other).

 

I've come across unkillable juggs/guardian and the most rage-inducing ops/smugglers & assasins on my server and the only conclusion I have come to is that "they were better than me". They knew what abilities to look out for, saved their stuns for/defensive cd's for. These players know the game well and shouldn't be the reason why mara/sent are copping all this new hype of being the gods of PvP.

 

So, No, mara/sent are not the OP god everyone in this thread is describing. You came across a better player, pure and simple, and I hate to say something as snobby as that to anyone but that is the fact of the matter.

 

Just the same as I have come across players that were purely BETTER than me (and this includes all classes, not just the ones I keep referring to in my examples). They wrecked me, and those players soon create a reputation for themselves as generally good PvPers on their respective servers.

 

What everyone in this thread has been claiming is that, this one buff to ravage has automatically bridged the gap between skill and gear, and that now mara's are just another "One button I win king" class (much like people used to say about pyrotechs and their railshot pre 1.2 - and now look what happened to them).

 

I was doing fine as carnage before this ravage/MS buff came into play, and I will continue to do so when it comes our turn to cop the nerf stick just like our poor pyrotech friends have. But I do not agree with you when you suggest/imply that this ONE buff to a 30 second cd, channelled melee ability has bridged the almighty gap between GEAR & SKILL and now every mara/sent out there is a facerolling death machine worthy of warlord/elite warlorld status just because they decided to spec carnage after the 1.2 refund - this I just cannot accept.

 

So I'm sorry for being rude like this, but it comes down to individual skill level, and while I cannot and will not lecture someone on their respective class, I will speak for mara/sent players out there - there are still hundreds of crap mara/sents in my warzones, literally hundreds.

 

When you come across the bad ones you will know it-they should & will crumble at your feet, when you chance upon the skilled ones you will not know what hit you and threads like these are born...

 

Yes, I run into two-three Sent/Maras on my server that totally wreck me every time. All CDs available and used. 100-0 and they are at >60%. Let me clear something up - I'm not saying that this ONE buff made them totally OP. I'm saying that in the right hands, a Marauder was already very, very strong. This patch buffed the class even more, and that doesn't make sense.

 

It may be that they are better individual players than me. But my guild consistently beats theirs when they meet. The top Powertech on the server is in my guild and was flabbergasted by how easily a Marauder can take him down now. There is no Operative, Merc, PT, Sorc or Snipe that could do that consistently. I didn't complain before 1.2; I figured it was a rock, paper, scissors issue and was okay with that. But then I made a marauder and realized I could take down pretty much any other class faily easily. Then 1.2 hits and suddenly no name Marauders are face smashing everyone? I really think that there's something wrong.

 

Now I like to think I'm a pretty good player. I win the vast majority of WZs I play. I curse myself out when I screw up. I'm willing to admit there's better players out there. But when I feel like I do everything right and still get wrecked, I know my gear is equal, and everyone else is saying the same thing, I tend to think there might be something to it.

[vermura]

The changes are so random lol.

 

I like how they increased ravages damage by 15% shortly before this patch goes live - this is while people are telling them are idiots and marauders are in fact over powered BEFORE this patch.

 

They then spring on everyone expertise scaling changes so that damage is king in the scaling. Big surprise, damage is now king.

 

Good thing my marauders 46, not too far to join the fotm brigade.

Edited April 13, 2012 by vermura

[Daayz]

And sentinels can't be CC'd or focused, so they can always just do whatever they please.

 

lol have fun "focus firing" a sentinel / marauder. Their vast array of CD's make them by far the hardest class to actually kill - derp derp lets have multiple team members try to burst through their 1) 20% dmg reduction that lasts for 30 seconds, 2) 99% dmg reduction, 3) their force camo vanish + 50% dmg reduction, 4) their 75% parry saber ward, 5) their off the GCD free accuracy debuff they can apply which reduces enemy accuracy by 95%, AND lets not forget their 6) self heals and 7) AOE mez that effectively peels off everybody around them attking them.

 

This combined with their best in game short CD gap closer, best in game single target damage, massive array of short CD interrupts (6 second CD interrupt, force leap, force choke, and aoe mez - don't bother attempting to cast against a marauder because you won't), their immunity to interrupts, and best in game group utility (GROUP passive heals, GROUP 15% damage buff, GROUP speed boost).

 

Yep looks balanced to me. /sarcasm

[mikedee]

I'm lieing.. i use to do so much damage in warzones.. 400k avg. now i cant even get over 200k some warzones.. yeah im a liar lol

 

Respec lol. Your old spec is no good. The new one is...

[JediKalel]

Call me crazy, but shouldnt DPS class (sent/mara) have the most DPS:rolleyes:

 

DPS = damage

 

Tank = health/defense

 

Healer = healing

 

 

 

Know your role gibroni.... dont run a sage/sorc as DPS and whine that sent/mara is better DPS than you, because they are supposed to be!!

[mikedee]

Call me crazy, but shouldnt DPS class (sent/mara) have the most DPS:rolleyes:

 

DPS = damage

 

Tank = health/defense

 

Healer = healing

 

 

 

Know your role gibroni.... dont run a sage/sorc as DPS and whine that sent/mara is better DPS than you, because they are supposed to be!!

 

So why does the class have the best defensive cd's too?

[DweezillKagemand]

I failed to address the problem because there isn't actually a problem. Just a lot of whinters.

 

If sents/marauders pop a an offensive cooldown then you can pop a CC/defensive cooldown. It's not hard, it's logic.

 

What is a whinter? Also, your cooldown is 30 seconds - most defensive cooldowns are 2 min 30 seconds.

 

What you're saying is - if I don't blow all my CDs just to survive, I deserve to die to 1 offensive move - seems balanced.

 

Yeah, I fail to see the point of your post.

[Diet-Hutt]

You seriously need to think more.

 

You speak as if ravage/master strike has no cooldown.

 

You need to read more.

 

Especially from the players saying ravage/master strike is OP now and they don't want this "I-Win" ability.

 

What does the fact that it has a cooldown or potentially be stopped have to do with the fact that it is OP at the moment?

 

Nothing.

 

- DH

[Stavroz]

First, Charge triggers a global cooldown. So you will only be immobilized for 1.5s of that duration.

 

Also, have you seriously never heard of a stun/knockback/blind or any of the various defensive cooldowns in the game that render ravage/master strike useless?

 

First the GCD starts from the moment you hit leap. Part of that GCD is eaten away in the leap (the time to get to your target) so no you will not be immobalised for only 1.5seconds of an MS. You will be immobed for 2-2.5 secs of an MS.

 

Also MS is on a shorter cooldown then stuns/blinds/mezzes so the chances are you eating a full duration or close to full duration of an MS more often then you are stunning your opponent out of his MS.

 

So that leaves KBs as the only viable counter but Sages/sorcs have delayed KBs that they can't use till they are unrooted so they are eating the full duration of an MS as the time it takes to get unrooted and finish the KB animation the MS is finished.

 

Scoundrals/ops don't even get a KB which leaves Trooper/BH (both merc and Powetech variants) and Jugs/Gaurds as the only 3 classes that can effectively counter an MS more often then not which are all heavy armour wearing classes.

 

Yes they really need to avoid the MS the most out of all classes