What the horrible loss rewards mean..

[Calitri]

Not really. If somebody else gets a job instead of you, does the employer give you a reward by offering you the same annual salary for doing nothing? No. You move on and try and get another job.

 

Your right you do, because that job pays your mortage/rent and all the other bills you have to pay. This however does not pay my rent or my bills, I do this for fun. And if something ceases to be fun that your paying for, you stop paying for it.

 

If you want to put it in terms of something that has to do with winning and professional, the guys Mike tyson used beat in the ring got paid too! Not as much, but they couldn't say they got nothing out of the deal either. How they had losses set up prior to 1.2 was more than sufficent, restore it and everybodys happy. It was an unessecary change to the game.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Calitri

[Hedge]

I totally agree with the OP and some of the people that replied.

 

 

* Guild prem = win every single match for us.

 

* solo pug = before a good player could get easily between 210-240 commendations out of 3 losing games because, he , as an individual performed well.

 

That same player now with the same investement and results will lose those same 3 matches and get between 75-120 comms roughly.

 

Bad call imo.

 

I'm not the kind of guy that needs rewards for doing nothing but this change is making many good solo queuers just leave the pvp bracket again.

 

Who's going to work 10 hours today for the same hours he worked last month but only getting paid half now ? Not many.

[MightyHalo]

If you are afk'ing you won't like 1.2

 

I had the best time in game since launch last night playing nothing but pug wz's.

 

Medals were not a problem, even against pre-mades.

[DuriZap]

Imo comms are OK. 20-40 comms is not bad for losing and it's not like you lose all the time.

 

You must be an Imp player who wins alot more than you lose.

[Ceefax]

....I'd love to see loosing sports teams get no money too IRL...

 

 

OP's points are spot on. Good post.

[Graelkat]

to those who say "get over it", consider this:

 

Premade group winners are getting comms at roughly 5X the rate of the losing PUGs (zero to 30 for a loss vs. 100 for a win). What happens after a few days or weeks of this? Undergeared people quit pvping; pugs disappear; smaller factions on imbalanced servers don't pvp. Then WZs don't pop nearly as often or don't pop at all. Is that what you want?

 

There is no way BW purposely intended to create this result.

[Phuzz]

The new system is pretty harsh.

 

USing my full-heal specced Scoundrel alt (Lvl 37, have 2 lvl 50s already) I queued for PvP.

 

Queue system entered me into round 2 of Voidstar where the first round had gone particularly badly for those Reps that had been there for the whole game so far.

 

Round 2 only lasted 3 1/2 minutes, however I managed to spank out almost 100k heals and about 20k dmg (bearing in mind the team was getting roflstomped) which whilst not awesome is pretty decent for 3 1/2 mins and netted me 3 medals in 1-49 pvp.

 

Whilst I didnt expect to get the full XP/Valor/Credits I did expect to get a proportion of the rewards for queueing (knowing that Reps generally lose in 1-49 PvP and that it was likely id get a part-started game) and helping the team (I only made this toon to heal Reps in 1-49 PvP initially, since we were always short of healers).

 

What I dont expect to get is 0 Valor, 0 XP and 0 Creds. It seriously makes me think i just wont bother in the future.

 

Now I know it was only 3 1/2 minutes of playtime, but thats slightly irrelevant as it could be 5 mins, 7 mins, 10 mins or whatever. I dont want the full 'rewards' for playing half a game, but I do expect 'something' for playing to help my team out.

 

As it stands ill just PvE/space battle my way to 50 and then consider playing PvP again when I hit 50 (as 50 pvp on my server is fairly even in terms of win/loss ratios and ability/gear). Which is a shame, because I did enjoy being a team player/healer in low lvl PvP before - even losing most of the time. The XP and creds made it worthwile as 15 mins of PvP was about the same as spending 15 mins PvEing. Now, unless youre an Imp on my server 1-49, PvP is almost a total waste of time.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Phuzz

[Heemster]

Not really. If somebody else gets a job instead of you, does the employer give you a reward by offering you the same annual salary for doing nothing? No. You move on and try and get another job.

 

This whole concept of people wanting everything for nothing is retarded and I can't help but think it's rooted from WoW and it's e-z mode rewards.

 

Difference is that we talk about entertainment here and not a job. Actually here you pay for entertainment and do not get paid for a job. And people who paid for playing pvp on a pvp server here do not get anything in return now. There is no open world pvp at all, if you "only" play for 2 hours a day you have hardly a chance to win 3 matches (you can be lucky if you can play 3 matches at all) and now you walk home with even nothing.

 

If you accomplish more you should get higher reward, that right, but getting nothing is not the answer. And for the l2p people out there and pro's who play for 8 hr/day .... do not forget who pays the developers .... its not the few hardcore players, but all the others .

[Paitryn]

Oh no! You have to win to get a reward?

What a silly, silly rule that is...

/thread

 

nah, even as someone who usually wins i dont want players on the other side dropping queues. when it happens it sucks. they just turtle in a hole and wait till the end. whats worse is when they drop. Ill have to post the screenshot of the 600-0 3 cap alderaan win that took place because the imps dropped as soon as we capped the east and west nodes, letting mid get capped quick. they never recovered from that.

 

the idea of win and get reward, fail and get little (or nothing as happened to some) discourages pvp on a server wide scale. your talking about large amounts of people just not queuing for fear of losing and wasting their time.

 

at least before they walked away with something as a reward so the effort was paid. now they look at the queue and wonder if its even worth pushing the button.

[AKfourtyseven]

 

Their team stuck it out for the whole warzone and ended up with 1 kill total. For their effort in helping us, the majority of them got 0 valor, 0 commendations and 0 credits. Yes, those that afk and do nothing should get nothing, but that team was not afk. They were trying, we just had most everyone in BM gear and very few of them had more than 14k HP. How are they supposed to advance to get better gear, to have a chance at killing us if they never get any kind of reward for their effort?

 

This.

 

Its funny, this patch as meant to "make PvP more fair" and "remove the gear gap". All it has done is ensured that those will full gear and premades before this will advance even faster.

 

All that being said, its still possible to get a decent amount of medals for some rewards even when being rolled if you seriously play objectives and play well. That most likely requires more experience than a new 50 solo player has, so they will probs stop PvP instead

[Sparcrypt]

Not really. If somebody else gets a job instead of you, does the employer give you a reward by offering you the same annual salary for doing nothing? No. You move on and try and get another job.

 

This whole concept of people wanting everything for nothing is retarded and I can't help but think it's rooted from WoW and it's e-z mode rewards.

 

It's nothing to do with getting something for free. It's 'is it fun'?

 

Winning? Fun.

Getting new gear? Fun.

Leveling up? Fun.

Getting money? Fun.

Losing? Not fun.

 

So. If you lose.. that's not fun.. but if you lose, get XP/credits/gear.. well all those things are fun so it's not so bad. So people keep playing. That's how it WAS.

 

How things are? Well now, the people who win have fun! They win, they get new gear, money and XP! Awesome fun! The losers... well.. um... they got.. yeah they got nothing.

 

See how long people queue up for that before they just stop and leave. Maybe not the game, but they WILL stop PvPing.

[Denki_]

You guys never run out of something to whine about, eh?

 

Keep it up, crybabies.

[Hedge]

Difference is that we talk about entertainment here and not a job. Actually here you pay for entertainment and do not get paid for a job. And people who paid for playing pvp on a pvp server here do not get anything in return now. There is no open world pvp at all, if you "only" play for 2 hours a day you have hardly a chance to win 3 matches (you can be lucky if you can play 3 matches at all) and now you walk home with even nothing.

 

If you accomplish more you should get higher reward, that right, but getting nothing is not the answer. And for the l2p people out there and pro's who play for 8 hr/day .... do not forget who pays the developers .... its not the few hardcore players, but all the others .

 

amen.

 

Basicly these changes weren't necessary at all.

 

More for the winning team because of those game win medals ? I do totally agree.

 

Nothing to 1/3 from what the losing team had 48 hours ago pre patch ? Just can't accept that.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Hedge

[DuriZap]

Indeed. So now, I won't PuG anymore. There's no reward for me there. So thats one less decent player in there and if you look at the forums, I'm in no way alone. If you don't see this is a bad thing to happen you're not all that bright.

 

It's not about being bright.

 

It's about being self preserving Imp player, who like the big difference good gear makes. It is no secret that imps are generally better geared than reps.

This difference, which makes it hard for a rep PUG group to win anything at all, will make the gap between imps and reps bigger. And now, with all the leaving, this gap will explode.

 

Way to go BW, doing this at the same time as the players was about to get gearwise balanced across factions.

[DuriZap]

to those who say "get over it", consider this:

 

Premade group winners are getting comms at roughly 5X the rate of the losing PUGs (zero to 30 for a loss vs. 100 for a win). What happens after a few days or weeks of this? Undergeared people quit pvping; pugs disappear; smaller factions on imbalanced servers don't pvp. Then WZs don't pop nearly as often or don't pop at all. Is that what you want?

 

There is no way BW purposely intended to create this result.

 

Unfortunately, most players are blinded by their new power to see this.

[Paitryn]

Unfortunately, most players are blinded by their new power to see this.

 

im definately not. i see how the losses hurt and the wins dominate. I didnt bother with solo queue much because premade groups i was in dominated so well. before i still had a pretty good win loss ration of about 2-1. novarre coast has a lot of pugs confused as to what to do. (even lost in a premade there when the pug gave up one of our nodes and we couldnt recover it for guarding the other one. its very zergy)

[Glock_]

Not really. If somebody else gets a job instead of you, does the employer give you a reward by offering you the same annual salary for doing nothing? No. You move on and try and get another job.

 

This whole concept of people wanting everything for nothing is retarded and I can't help but think it's rooted from WoW and it's e-z mode rewards.

 

Damn, i always tought this was a game . . . . .

 

But some you say is spot on.

Theres a good chance people will move on, and try to find something else . . .

 

Like last night i took me about 8 hours to get the dailies done (playing as republic on a low pop server with Imp dominance)

What happened is that sometimes we simple get steamrolled by full BM premade, **** happens i can live with that. But alot of people cant, we lost many games that where pretty even. Due to players leaving the game as soon they see its not a sure win after 1 min.

And what did i have to show for loosing pretty much all the way trough that 8 hour session? a pair of BM boots . . .

If i have to grind my way to full BM in the same way, it willstart to feel like having to shovel Taun Taun droppings for a bowl of rice.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Glock_

[LastArgument]

Agree with the OP.

 

It's not about wanting easy rewards, it's about being able to put in a reasonable amount of time to get something. This is the entire carrot on a stick design behind MMOs, but in this case the rewards changes for losing are particularly harsh.

 

If the answer people have is "get better" or "get a premade", those aren't answers at all. PuGs don't want to lose and get 120 comms - there should absolutely be an incentive for winning. But we don't feel that we should get 20-25 comms for a 15 minute match.

 

It's even worse in Voidstar if you attack first and lose - you can easily find yourself done in 7-8 mins and under the 3 medal "minimum".

 

People need to lose the attitude that pugs are some sort of leech - some people just can't ind regular groups, or play at odd times when groups aren't common.

 

I'd be happy if losing got me 40 commendations. It would be slow but I would still be able to make progress, as well as having a real incentive to win - if I can double my reward for winning, there's no way a player would not try.

[ekwalizer]

The "major" reward for winning in this game is the completion of your dailies/weekly.

 

I am not an "everyone deserves to be a winner" kind of guy, however the rewards do need to match the investment.

 

I primarily play a Pyro Merc (v70 full BM gear) on a pretty evenly split server. (pre-1.2) Generally I am 1-3 on the damage board, 1-3 on the kill board and I'll get anywhere from 5-8 comms per decent match. Even in a loss, this resulted in steady rewards. Steady rewards kept me chasing the carrot.

 

I think last night I played 7 matches to get my three wins. The four losing matches I received basically nothing. So in pure WZ time that's roughly one hour of my life that I will never get back, and received nothing for in exchange. That is the point.

 

Post Script: The analogy of a job from a few pages ago is a straw man argument. You create an absurd scenario and "compare" it to this one to illustrate your point. Epic Fail.

[ComeAndSee]

I noticed this yesterday.

 

We had a Voidstar match, half-premade vs premade, and both teams did not get through the first doors. Both teams had about equal amount of medals and a couple people pulling 400k dmg, healing+.

 

The game rolled dice and the other team won. We got 35 comms out of it and they got about 90 cause one of them was in our vent talking to us.

 

Yeah, I'm not going to put up with that for long.

[UnderatedNoob]

I am confused where all these comm numbers are coming from.

 

I played 10 warzones yesterday and went 6 and 4.

 

In my four losses the lowest amount of comms I received was 43. I only received less than 50 once, the most being 62 I'm pretty sure.

 

My wins ranged anywhere from 65 - 103.

 

Seems like a pretty good system to me, although I can only judge off my experiences.

[ComeAndSee]

I am confused where all these comm numbers are coming from.

 

I played 10 warzones yesterday and went 6 and 4.

 

In my four losses the lowest amount of comms I received was 43. I only received less than 50 once, the most being 62 I'm pretty sure.

 

My wins ranged anywhere from 65 - 103.

 

Seems like a pretty good system to me, although I can only judge off my experiences.

 

Some WZ's you earn more medals than others.

[AKfourtyseven]

I am confused where all these comm numbers are coming from.

 

I played 10 warzones yesterday and went 6 and 4.

 

In my four losses the lowest amount of comms I received was 43. I only received less than 50 once, the most being 62 I'm pretty sure.

 

My wins ranged anywhere from 65 - 103.

 

Seems like a pretty good system to me, although I can only judge off my experiences.

 

Medals.

 

If you pull 8+ medals even in a lost you are going to do better. If you get rolled so hard you dont meet 3+ you will get absolutely nothing.

[Dayshadow]

They need separate premades and pugs.

Other than that, losing should actually net in less rewards. It should be 30 rather than 40 commendations, honestly.

 

The problem is, losing is not necessarily my fault. If I am being punished for someone elses' bad playing then I should be able to report them and get them banned fron WZs if they won't shape up, right? Why should your deathmatching mentality in huttball cost be commendations and creds? Why should your inability to call inc BEFORE you die and the enemy is capping turrets cost me comms and creds? Why should a pre-made team on vent be able to play with PuGs iff you're going to punish the losing team?

[Valeroth]

The original poster pretty much has it correct.

 

I will no longer PUG PvP, will only PVP with pre-mades now. As I need my very well geared guild mates to have any chance at getting some PvP gear of my own.