Sparcrypt Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) TLDR: the rewards for losing in PvP are too low. OK, so I generally PvP with friends and we win most games, as decent groups tend to do. However.. when they're not about I PuG. Or used to. See it didn't bother me if the PuGs sucked and we lost, I just did my best to help them win and happily went on my way. I did this because the rewards for losing weren't too bad.. I preferred to win of course, but eh. Now.. I did a PuG and we got destroyed by a premade. I got 25 comms. 27 after a few MVP votes. What? Screw that, it's not worth spending 15 minutes trying to win, playing with my team, losing and getting next to nothing for it. Combine that with the fact that you often fall short of the 8 medals because you're not getting the 'win in xx time' ones? Can't be bothered, I have a premade group, I'll wait for them. So... no big deal right? I don't like it so I don't do it? Great! Or not. The problem is going to be if everyone else does this as well.. and I can't see a reason for them not to. What will happen? 1. Less good players in PuGs. Many good players run with premades and PuG as well, probably for the same reasons as me. If they all decide it aint worth their time, PuG PvP will get less fun for everyone as there will be less decent players in the game on either side. 2. Bad players won't get good. This is the big one for me. I don't care if someone is bad if they're willing to learn and get better. They aren't going to do that while making 25 comms per match and having to save forever to get their new gear - they're going to go 'screw this' and stop PvPing. Less people PvPing = less PvP. That sucks. 3. More medal farming. People already focus on medals, it's going to get a lot worse. Anyone who wants comms is going to first up ensure they can get their 8 medals to maximise their score.. they're ABSOLUTELY going to do this if they know their only comms coming in are going to be from the medals. There are other reasons but I feel those are enough.. after all, what's the point in having the reward so low? To slow gear upgrades down? I don't see the point. Premades are going to play flat out and win plenty in the next few weeks until they're fully kitted out in War Hero gear - which will already take a while with the 3-1 ratio for said gear. Medals give you 40 comms max... so make that half the minimum reward. 80 comms for a loss, assuming you got 8 medals. Give 120 for a win. 80 comms per game means you need to play (and lose) 11 games for a set of gloves. 15 mins or so per game you're looking at about 3 hours playtime for one bit of BM. That's fine. Right, enough rambling.. my PvP mates are online, time to go earn a ton of comms. Edited April 14, 2012 by Sparcrypt Formatting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocula Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 This is pretty much entirely correct, and why I just unsubbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelodicSixNine Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Imo comms are OK. 20-40 comms is not bad for losing and it's not like you lose all the time. The bad part is creds. You don't even get creds for fuel costs if you lose! Also there should be deserter penalty and side que for 4-man, 8-man premades... Edited April 13, 2012 by MelodicSixNine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 They need separate premades and pugs. Other than that, losing should actually net in less rewards. It should be 30 rather than 40 commendations, honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztang Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Im a big star wars fan always have i dropped every other game out there and have/had no intention of any other game taking me away from this but even my blind faith is starting to find cracks your post is totally correct but on my server we are just getting rolled by the opposite faction because anyone who takes pvp seriously plays republic and every nub and his dog plays empire but just like you i could always be the best of the loosing team and walk away with a decent amount of comms and credits but now i almost feel like unsubbing to show them how bad this is right now just played 15 wz's and won 1 was so angry and was just pissed off with how bad our teams are and also how bad this new system is. I kind of feel like the other faction is playing this like its a exploit and are trying to milk this until bioware nerfs the affects of winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparcrypt Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 They need separate premades and pugs. Other than that, losing should actually net in less rewards. It should be 30 rather than 40 commendations, honestly. Why? Having next to nothing as a reward doesn't encourage people to come back. That means less players and longer queues. Sound good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattderp Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Oh no! You have to win to get a reward? What a silly, silly rule that is... /thread Edited April 13, 2012 by Mattderp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eHug Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Oh no! You have to win to get a reward? What a silly, silly rule that is... /thread You really don't get it why it's bad to reward ppl wining pvp due to better pvp gear with even better pvp gear while the people that loose due to bad gear won't get anything better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattderp Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 You really don't get it why it's bad to reward ppl wining pvp due to better pvp gear with even better pvp gear while the people that loose due to bad gear won't get anything better? If you lose you lose, get over it. Recruit > Battlemaster isn't a huge difference anyway (in terms of people having a 'better' gear advantage). Not like I can do anything to change peoples attitude towards this, people always want something for nothing. That remind you of any other game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparcrypt Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Oh no! You have to win to get a reward? What a silly, silly rule that is... /thread Indeed. So now, I won't PuG anymore. There's no reward for me there. So thats one less decent player in there and if you look at the forums, I'm in no way alone. If you don't see this is a bad thing to happen you're not all that bright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camilladilla Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 As horrible as all this is for people who lose WZs... Do people really think this is going to stick around? Bioware's changed up the way medals/rewards work how many times already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktylu Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Why? Having next to nothing as a reward doesn't encourage people to come back. That means less players and longer queues. Sound good? +1 they balance levels before 50, so numbers are even. if you run into a premade group, all wearing BM and get destroyed, why so severe loss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil_Santa Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 The rewards for Warzones have been completely ****ed up because of BioWare's decision to pull Ranked Warzones. Ranked Warzones would have pulled 90% of the people in full BM gear out of the general Warzones, giving players without BM gear a chance to obtain said gear through winning (or earning a decent amount of medals) in the warzones they play in. By removing this feature from the update, they've reintroduced the gear imbalances that were seen at launch between lvl 50's in BM gear, and lvl 10's that were playing in the same warzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kracin Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Oh wait so you are saying that if you have more pemades then pugs will lose more? On the contrary i think its awesome!!. Heres why, op, have your mind blown look ready to go If youb and your friends run a premade all day, then every time you win and you did say you win, then your 4 pug buddies in the match with you win toooooooo, its almost like having premades helps puggers who get tossed into them win more, unless i missed the memo that only people with similar guild names receive rewards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Karsk Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) The "pvp" team they have, have proven so many times now that they dont play their own game and are really clueless and make huge mistakes like this over and over again.So sad how these people are still working on this game. Ever warzone now we all leave a losing match because we dont get rewarded for effort. Edited April 13, 2012 by Lord_Karsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparcrypt Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Oh wait so you are saying that if you have more pemades then pugs will lose more? On the contrary i think its awesome!!. Heres why, op, have your mind blown look ready to go If youb and your friends run a premade all day, then every time you win and you did say you win, then your 4 pug buddies in the match with you win toooooooo, its almost like having premades helps puggers who get tossed into them win more, unless i missed the memo that only people with similar guild names receive rewards... Thats great for the 4 pugs in with us - however there are far far more PuGs than premades. What you are saying might happen yes, but it will be when most of the PuG players have stopped playing. Oh great. You're also assuming people will do what I've done, play premades. Not so. What a lot will do is just stop PvPing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Your points are all valid, though regarding 3, I do like how there are more objective-oriented medals now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Oh no! You have to win to get a reward? What a silly, silly rule that is... /thread And that only makes half the people happy, some of the time. People will not continue to play if they get no rewards. This leaves the leets to go against each other in longer and longer queues and eventually the same people end up losing to the same people and the ones that lose end up quitting and the cycle continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Your points are all valid, though regarding 3, I do like how there are more objective-oriented medals now. And you have to get twice as many medals to get the same reward as before. Easy for the team that wins as they get bonus medals. Slap in the face for those that lose. Was up against a team that we just slaughtered in the new warzone. We ended up having 4 and 4 at their doors camping them as they came out. Their team stuck it out for the whole warzone and ended up with 1 kill total. For their effort in helping us, the majority of them got 0 valor, 0 commendations and 0 credits. Yes, those that afk and do nothing should get nothing, but that team was not afk. They were trying, we just had most everyone in BM gear and very few of them had more than 14k HP. How are they supposed to advance to get better gear, to have a chance at killing us if they never get any kind of reward for their effort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparcrypt Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Your points are all valid, though regarding 3, I do like how there are more objective-oriented medals now. I do like that as well, but I've noticed that the difference between winning and losing is a huge number of medals. It's almost impossible to win and not get 8 - if you stomp them so fast that you only get 3-4 then you get all the 'win in xx minutes' ones as well. For the losers though I've seen a few people who have worked with the team, not won and also gotten zero rewards as they only got 1-2 medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattderp Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 And that only makes half the people happy, some of the time. People will not continue to play if they get no rewards. This leaves the leets to go against each other in longer and longer queues and eventually the same people end up losing to the same people and the ones that lose end up quitting and the cycle continues. Not really. If somebody else gets a job instead of you, does the employer give you a reward by offering you the same annual salary for doing nothing? No. You move on and try and get another job. This whole concept of people wanting everything for nothing is retarded and I can't help but think it's rooted from WoW and it's e-z mode rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparcrypt Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 And you have to get twice as many medals to get the same reward as before. Easy for the team that wins as they get bonus medals. Slap in the face for those that lose. Was up against a team that we just slaughtered in the new warzone. We ended up having 4 and 4 at their doors camping them as they came out. Their team stuck it out for the whole warzone and ended up with 1 kill total. For their effort in helping us, the majority of them got 0 valor, 0 commendations and 0 credits. Yes, those that afk and do nothing should get nothing, but that team was not afk. They were trying, we just had most everyone in BM gear and very few of them had more than 14k HP. How are they supposed to advance to get better gear, to have a chance at killing us if they never get any kind of reward for their effort? This this and FOREVER this. Those players on the other team... if they get 2-3 more matches like that in a row.. think they're going to come back? People can whinge about how you shouldn't get anything for losing but you have to remember.. this is a game people give up their free time for. If they are not having fun they will stop coming back. PvP will boil down to a few premade teams on each server playing each other in Huttball, best case scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorf Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 yeah I was playing a lowbie warzone and we got spawned trapped pretty much but when we got out we finally took a base and got it to 80% vs 19%. We all had 4 kills or less so ofcourse few medals...0 valor 0 commendations 0 exp... pretty ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexcasmo Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Not really. If somebody else gets a job instead of you, does the employer give you a reward by offering you the same annual salary for doing nothing? No. You move on and try and get another job. This whole concept of people wanting everything for nothing is retarded and I can't help but think it's rooted from WoW and it's e-z mode rewards. I wasnt aware most jobs you pay a monthly fee the same as everyone else with the exact same qualifications for being there as you. Oh wait thats not the case and therefore you gave a completely terrible, not relevant analogy because there is not a non elitist side to your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanlein Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Not really. If somebody else gets a job instead of you, does the employer give you a reward by offering you the same annual salary for doing nothing? No. You move on and try and get another job. This whole concept of people wanting everything for nothing is retarded and I can't help but think it's rooted from WoW and it's e-z mode rewards. With a job IM getting payed not paying someone else . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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