The penalties for losing are TOO severe

[creng]

/bump

[Dyvim]

dumping people into wzs for pvp, where their individual achievement is slaved to a grp they have partial, little, or NO control over is COMPLETELY unacceptable. In a game where every grp is some type of pug, and there is no built in voice, wz grping can be annoying at the least.

 

So, yes, their should definitely be a narrower reward gap between winnng and losing, because the individual player can have VERY little control over it. Yet they have to put up with it to get the gear progression.

 

The Armament/WZ daily/Weeklies worked well....you get three armaments, win or lose. Took 10 matches to get the 30 needed to complete the daiy. Made worthless pugs slightly more palatable.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Dyvim

[fungihoujo]

.......who have put in the time or effort to get the gear that you have chosen not to (completely your option)

 

 

if im prepared to invest a **** ton of time into an aspect of the game, shouldnt i be far better rewarded than someone who isnt?

 

i think we need more tiers of gear myself, give people a tree with some lower branches to climb, maybe in time.

 

as for the equal issue, this is an rpg, character development and as such gear is a fundamental building block of any rpg, all the way back. striving for uber gear is all part of the elaboratly decorated hamster wheel all these games are. ppl bang on about wanting equal ground for pvp, the fact is the ground is equal (class balance aside). we all start in begginner gear and at level 1. the rest is up to you.

 

Tell me, at level one, are you fighting level 50 operation bosses?

 

No, you're fighting level one monster at your challenge level. That's the same throughout the entire game- that's the same for all tiers of operations and dungeons if you want it to be.

 

The only place where there's an exception is endgame pvp- where you have zero option to face players at your gear level.

 

So your argument is completely invalid.

 

Tell me, why would a casual continue playing a game they know they will always lose and never catch up in pvp, simply because they don't have as much time to play?

 

The answer? They won't- they'll go play one of the multiple games that are out/coming out that won't require you to be dominated more or less endlessly.

 

Perhaps that's fine to you, but for BW, they've made a game aimed at casuals, and are currently in the process of driving their casual base far away. Not a smart idea.

 

 

 

And no- you shouldn't be given a vast advantage because you've 'worked hard' for that gear. This is a game, mmorpg pvp is the only spot in games where I've seen people try to say having an unfair advantage over other players is fair play.

Edited April 16, 2012 by fungihoujo

[DakataTan]

Tell me, at level one, are you fighting level 50 operation bosses?

 

No, you're fighting level one monster at your challenge level. That's the same throughout the entire game- that's the same for all tiers of operations and dungeons if you want it to be.

 

no, but you fight mobs that are sometimes higher level than you, certainly true as you progress in levels and if not higher level you will be out numbered, either way its not an even playing field.

 

The only place where there's an exception is endgame pvp- where you have zero option to face players at your gear level.

 

wrong again if you pvp at level 10 you will face level 40s in better gear and with more abilities. therefore the entire pvp game is uneven in circumstance, but everyone was once level 10 like you. inherently even.

 

So your argument is completely invalid.

 

Tell me, why would a casual continue playing a game they know they will always lose and never catch up in pvp, simply because they don't have as much time to play?

 

because that simply isnt true. scaremongering will scare more players away than reality. i am semi recently 50, 9 days or so, the learning curve has been tough at times but never insurmountable. due to these casuals and the like, the game doesnt require you to win to gain a reward, it might not be as high as youd like but its certianly not nothing. as soon as people gian a bit of character and dont reach for the quit button the second the match goes south and instead focuses on medals and making the most out of a bad situation the earlier they will realise its not as bad as the forums make out. i lose alot, sometimes down to me, sometimes down to my team but im making progress on comms. according to you and others that is unpossible.

 

The answer? They won't- they'll go play one of the multiple games that are out/coming out that won't require you to be dominated more or less endlessly.

 

what game has this eutophia of end game gaming? pretty much every game has ppl who will pile on the hours and get better gear and curb stomp you in open or closed pvp untill you catch up. or maybe you just start playing a game thats been out a month or 2, exact same thing will happen. hell you saying youve never been farmed by high tier players in any other game on the way up? dont be absurd.

 

Perhaps that's fine to you, but for BW, they've made a game aimed at casuals, and are currently in the process of driving their casual base far away. Not a smart idea.

 

i dont totally disagree with you here, they have aimed at a casual market, but casuals are so fickle its hardly a solid base to build on. casual seems to be a by word for cowardly, lazy, unmotivated, self entitled bads, certianly the image they get from these endless posts whining that the world isnt delivered to them day 1.

 

And no- you shouldn't be given a vast advantage because you've 'worked hard' for that gear. This is a game, mmorpg pvp is the only spot in games where I've seen people try to say having an unfair advantage over other players is fair play.

 

its an rpg, the gear chase is a fundamental principle of rpgs, you actually answered this your self when you said the underlined. golf games are the only games you swing golf clubs in, i dont like golf clubs, lets remove them from these games. i will say thou the term hard work, has to be taken semi loosely, were not mining for the USSR here but it can represent massive time investments and to get it done quicker, skill also.

 

 

honestly, its not that bad. **** yoda, try once in a while and you might be suprised.

Edited April 16, 2012 by DakataTan

[HyperThomas]

BW should mirror BF3s reward system (lol), rewarding for what a player actually does, and a slight bonus to the winning team, it should be more than half the winning rewards.

[johannmoore]

agree totally

 

bump

[Cozaar]

You must let me know how you get a post to last so long without getting locked down. It's like the forum moderators only allow a certain amount of negative posts per hour.

[Haydon]

Got out of a Voidstar match a little while ago.

 

Our team had lost, but I had earned 12 Medals. I was happy believing that, even though we had lost, it was time well spent since the payout would still be decent.

 

I was horribly wrong.

 

Zero cash.

ONLY 40 commendations.

I was too shocked to note how much valor I had earned.

 

I am shocked at this change to the reward payouts in PVP.

 

Before this change, even if I knew 2 minutes into a match that my team was going to lose horribly, I would always stay to the end. I would work to earn my medals and make sure that the other team had to EARN their victory.

 

With this change, of a HUGE cut to rewards if you're on the losing team, I no longer feel the desire to do so.

 

With the reward payout for being on the losing team so low now, my time is better spent by bailing the moment I"m relatively certain we're going to lose and trying to get into another match where we are almost guaranteed to win.

 

PVP always earned you less cash over time than PVE. But I was OK with this as I was earning a decent amount of commendations with which to buy gear.

 

This change will make me walk out on matches for the first time ever.

 

 

 

Please change it back... Give me a reason to want to make the other guy EARN his victory again.

[xxdragonragexx]

You must let me know how you get a post to last so long without getting locked down. It's like the forum moderators only allow a certain amount of negative posts per hour.

 

The mods are redirecting all the topics about warzone rewards into this thread.

If there is a thread about warzone rewards being too little, it will be locked and the mods will say, go to this thread instead.

[Igeg]

5 wz's at 50 tonight...5 losses....no comms or credits cause as a new 50 I'm one hit every time I spawn....so I participate the entire wz for nothing?....seriously? Account cancelled, game uninstalled. Choke on it Bio.

[Cozaar]

The mods are redirecting all the topics about warzone rewards into this thread.

If there is a thread about warzone rewards being too little, it will be locked and the mods will say, go to this thread instead.

 

Got it, so its not actually an open forum, its just damage control.

[HelinCarnate]

Typical, a feature that could be used as an improvement motivation is instead used as a good excuse to quit rather than adapt by many.

 

I played a **** load of wzs over the weekend most of which I lost.

 

 

I'm a sorc, recruit/champ gear and a clicker to boot.

 

I never received 0 comms.

 

There were steamrolls during this session v pre mades, yet still 3 medals was achieved, sure some times a close run thing but done none the less.

 

Even on my lower alts in the bottom bracket 3 medals was not an impossible goal. Just had to make sure I was using every tool. Someone was saying about doing only heals and only getting 2 medals. 1) u did less than 300k but that was all you were doing during a heavy loss? 2) would it of killed u to throw a relic buffed bit of dmg to earn the lowly 75k medal? Ppl shouldn't focus, there's tons of basic entry medals, kill shot, 1k defender, 2.5ks etc every class should diversify to take in as many as poss giving u options, the tunnel vision approach during a loss will only add to ur problems.

 

Iv got no sympathy for those saying they get 0 and I say that as nicely and peacefully as possible, my own tests, limited but still a fairly reasonable sample, have shown me that no game is bad enough to deny u 3 medals, time dependent of course, u just gotta get creative, hell heal fire dmg if u have to.

 

Tl;dr: l2p

 

When you are the only healer, anyone and everyone on the other team (if they are worth a damn) puts a big "Kill me first" sign over your head. And when you are a healer, your first job is to keep people alive, there are matches when I do 80-100k+ damage, but when your team is dropping like flies, healing them for a few thousand is much more usefull than hitting someone else for piddley damage. And considering that most of our DPS people hardly ended up with more than 75k that round, yes it would have killed me, and faster than healing since I tend to get marked for healing.

 

Also, because I was able to keep people alive, we were able to keep hitting the middle just consistanly enough that we managed to keep them from capping for most of the game, 30-0 was the end score. It would have been a much faster loss had I went for damage and just played for medals instead of playing to win as we took our turret a couple seconds before theirs and had a very slight lead most of the game.

Edited April 16, 2012 by HelinCarnate

[DakataTan]

When you are the only healer, anyone and everyone on the other team (if they are worth a damn) puts a big "Kill me first" sign over your head. And when you are a healer, your first job is to keep people alive, there are matches when I do 80-100k+ damage, but when your team is dropping like flies, healing them for a few thousand is much more usefull than hitting someone else for piddley damage.

 

Also, because I was able to keep people alive, we were able to keep hitting the middle just consistanly enough that we managed to keep them from capping for most of the game, 30-0 was the end score. It would have been a much faster loss had I went for damage and just played for medals instead of playing to win as we took our turret a couple seconds before theirs and had a very slight lead most of the game.

 

i understand your point, iv been there myself but there are counters.

 

your actions, while noble didnt change the course of the game, when a game goes obviously bad (your one sounds close so kudos for trying anyway) you should swithc to medals over objectives, hell i make damn sure at the cost of anyone and anything to get those medals.

 

selfish? sure but i never want to see that 0 comms screen, cus then, iv wasted time. you did the "right" thing staying on heals, but lost out on both the game and personal reward, i take the approach theres a list of priorities and outside of a pre made, your number one on that list.

 

end of the day, had the tables been reversed and you scrape a win with 30-0 youd feel thrilled to win and reape the rewards, as i imagen the other team did in your example. not a bad thing, losing should suck, it should motivate you to not lose more.

 

anyway, i reply mostly to the general attitude of ppl here, who just quit at the drop of a hat and think the sky has fallen.

[HelinCarnate]

Playing at these odd hours, premades are very difficult to find most days. Part of the day it is alright but once the queues start to thin out it turns into pug or nothing because my friends do crazy things like sleep when its dark. Getting nothing for your efforts does not motivate me to not lose more. It motivates me to screw the team over in exchange for getting at least some kind of reward in the end. I have resisted this urge so far but I have been seeing others succumb.

 

I was in a Novara Coast not too long ago where half the team went to the north bunker on our side and camped there because it got them their 3 medals quickly. This caused the rest of us to have 4vs8 and we were quicly slaughtered. Only after those people got their 3 medals did they join the fight which we eventually lost even though it was very close and back and forth for most of the game once those 4 got out of their shell. Yes I still got commendations on that game but that is not the pont. My point there is the punnishment for losing and getting less than 3 medals is so severe that people are doing everything they can to avoid getting less than 3 medals. Even if that means the team will lose, at least they still get something out of it.

 

Add cross server warzones with the current reward system in place and it will only get worse.

Edited April 16, 2012 by HelinCarnate

[jolleebindu]

5 wz's at 50 tonight...5 losses....no comms or credits cause as a new 50 I'm one hit every time I spawn....so I participate the entire wz for nothing?....seriously? Account cancelled, game uninstalled. Choke on it Bio.

 

i feel bad for your experience, but honestly try out the recruit set if you are a fresh 50

 

its not an even fight, but its definitely a step up from leveling gear - hopefully enough so to net some medals and thus coms for you

 

if you have already... then idk

[Lemonizer]

To maximize my gain, I afk out of losing games. Makes no sense to me to waste 10-15 minutes to get 30-40 coms against a hard group when I can leave and join another warzone where I know there's a chance I get weaker players and have a better chance at winning and getting more comms. On top of that I know a lot of good players who are also queueing so there is a chance I can get into a warzone with those players.

 

All those people who "stay" and "don't" quit don't gear up as fast as me and in general are just bad players mentally.

 

So say what you will but I will afk now. I use to stay in during 1.1.5 but now that there is no point, time to leave.

 

And all the people who stay in are so bad, and that is why they are baddies. It's frustrating playing with idiots.

 

Sure you can implement an afk penalty like wow did, but guess what, I stopped playing that stupid game. If swtor becomes like wow, see you everyone.

 

There's no point in being good yourself, you get the same @#$t rewards as the idiot next to you. What ... the... 2#$@#?

[Ipsemeter]

There should be a sense of balance and an air of challenge. PvP just is not fun when you're winning all the time, or losing. There has to be that nearness, like you could win it or lose it in the clutch, and it all comes down to everyone bringing their best game and giving it their all. The new formula of commendations is just a rehash of the ilum fiasco and the valor exploits, just given to us in a different wrapper but containg the same crappy stale candybar inside.

 

Hey, we didn't go for it with Ilum, why you think we would with this? Ranked WZ's were to pitch evenly matched players and skills against each other, but we don't have that. We have Ilum 2.0.

 

Bah, which way to Tera?

[Drudenfusz]

Played 3 games yesterday, won all 3, saw no reason to play more, but I felt bad for the poor Imps which got nothing from the games, and even worse it was boring as hell, since it was so early clear my team is winning that the imps didn't even tried to give me a challenge. Edited April 16, 2012 by Drudenfusz

[Lugh]

The new system is a joke, speak out against it. WTB revert to 1.1.5

 

This has caused every game to become a TDM zerg and has made WZ leaving 50 times more frequent.

 

You lose if you don't have BM gear, yet losing will give you between nothing and almost nothing, yet you need something to buy BM gear, worst catch-22 ever.

 

Quitting doesn't teach you how to play better, Quitting forces someone else that is solo queing to suffer in your stead.

 

Quitting makes you bad. Quitting makes sure you never ever learn how to work WITH a team.

 

Quitter NEVER win. Quitters are the worst case of losers, and shall never grow in knowledge or skill.

 

You still get 3 tokens towards the weekly, some tokens towards your loot, and HEY if you were paying attention to the GOALS of the scenario, you were earning more medals. Fancy that.

 

It's rare that I see less than 90 commendations even in a losing match. Wonder why that is...

[geezy]

 

Now there is no way. Players who lose more than half of there matches are looking at well over 520+ hours to get a War Hero set. You break that down it equates to roughly 6 months or more of grinding WZ 6 hours a day. Players who win over half there matches are looking at 450+ hours or about 5 months of grinding 6 hours a day.

 

Sorry but I didn't sign up for a Korean grind fest MMO. I like gear progression and you need to work for it but this is a bit excessive.

 

I completely agree that the difference is a bit too large. you should be getting 65-75 comms per WZ loss imo, but when you put up a statement like you did please check your maths.

520+ hours / 6 hours per day = 86.7+ days = 2.5+ months, not over 6 months of playing WZs 6 hours a day.

When you post things without thinking you make ur point look silly.

 

all in all, please increase the losing teams comms slightly Bioware.

Thanks

[Heideggar]

Prior to 1.2 it sounded like the developers wanted to give incentive to stay in the warzone. This was mainly because the daily and weekly quests were based off wins, so it wasn't adventageous to stick around for a match you knew was going to be a loss.

 

With the introduction of 1.2, we see an only increasing reason to leave early if a match is not going to be a win. Dramatically reduced rewards due to a loss only makes people want to leave early, and never join up with an existing group if not winning.

 

I've played dozens of warzones, and this is absolutely the case. I can't even afford sending my crew out on missions because of how nerfed the credits are for warzones.

 

I'm not sure what brought on the notion of reduced credits, seeing as I put in a lot of effort to win my warzones, and the effort to complete a daily is pretty moderate at best.

 

As I see it, PvP in swtor has taken about 20 steps back. The new warzones is such a non-factor right now because of how negative the system is.

 

This needs to be rectified ASAP.

[Malanoth]

Had zero BM pieces on my Operative before 1.2 and started with about 200 WZ commendations. I dont play hardcore but do enjoy PvP a lot. Yesterday I bought my third BM piece. I've lost ~50% of my WZ matches. I dont think thats too bad to be honest.

 

I only had 1 game where I got zero rewards and that was joining late (match was over in 2 mins) and I only get 1 medal. Fair enough.

 

BW want you to be a team player and make an effort for your team. Typically what happens in pug WZ's is this: Very few people communicate. Its like up to 8 players join a pug WZ team and go off on a solo missions. They don't back each other up or follow the general tactics if someone who is a team player enthusiastically reports in Op chat what tactics to try. That player is largely ignored. The other players then do not report in OP chat as the game plays out. They dont' ask for backup, report where enemies are incoming, etc. They only try to blindly zerg every enemy player they see and hope for a win. Then if the team starts losing heavily they are the first to become "vocal" and type in Ops chat that the team is full of muppets, losers, noobs, we've all heard such players' rants - they contribute nothing but are the first to become vocal..... Then players start to rage quit which further weakens the team and demoralises the remaining players further. The final result is a very poor loss.

 

Of course if the enemey team is completely decked out in full BM gear and the other team is full of orange/blue gear then of course that is going to have an impact on the game, but are pug WZ's really like this the majority of the time?

 

If you make an effort with your team members, take an active role within the group and encourage tactical play through encouragement on the Ops channel the match changes into something rather nice and the medals come rolling in, even if you lose by a close second.

 

This is what I think BW are trying achieve through their reward system. They are trying to steer you away from selfish PvP play and encourage you to try harder with your team. Play like that and you will win more matches and therefore gain rewards faster.

 

Have BW got the balance right? Maybe it could be tweaked slightly for the losing team, it is supposed to be a game that we all enjoy at the end of the day. But there is also a highly competitive side to PvP and the balance has to be right.

 

If you think this is bad now wait till ranked WZ's are established. You will truly have a two-tiered PvP system then. The puggers and and pro's. What you'll see then is teams of friends/guildies joining unranked WZ's in the very best gear just so they can have a giggle absolutely destroying the opposing team very quickly. Just for the hell of it.

[Erikusz]

This thread got 745 posts and 22,065 views in just 2 days. I think it deserves a little dev attention.

 

I mean common: is this really how you want your game to work?

 

Rewarding only a small portion of PVP participants at the expense of a whole lot of 'normal' gamers is just killing the game intentionally.

 

I was gratefull for the free 30 days of game time, but after this I think I've been actually very generous and patient for still playing. Hours and hours of gaming for the centurion set which I could just throw away (along with 200 champion commendations and a whole lot of credits for the stupid recruit set). Right now, playing SWTOR feels like charity work.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Erikusz

[Kanana]

Quitting doesn't teach you how to play better, Quitting forces someone else that is solo queing to suffer in your stead.

 

Quitting makes you bad. Quitting makes sure you never ever learn how to work WITH a team.

 

Quitter NEVER win. Quitters are the worst case of losers, and shall never grow in knowledge or skill.

 

You still get 3 tokens towards the weekly, some tokens towards your loot, and HEY if you were paying attention to the GOALS of the scenario, you were earning more medals. Fancy that.

 

It's rare that I see less than 90 commendations even in a losing match. Wonder why that is...

 

There's no more weekly or daily participation quest. If you're getting stomped you won't get the 3 medals to even get any paltry reward, no matter how much you focus on obejctives.

 

90 for a losing match? You're full of it.

[Erikusz]

There's no more weekly or daily participation quest. If you're getting stomped you won't get the 3 medals to even get any paltry reward, no matter how much you focus on obejctives.

 

90 for a losing match? You're full of it.

 

I agree. Losing a pvp match will get you 30-40 commendations max.