Is combat spec worth playing after the patch

[Sewerus]

So I roll a jedi knight - sentinel few weeks ago, everything was fine,

 

And I thought they are buffing is by increasing the damage of the master strike.

 

But later I have gone and investigate the talents and the usefull talents are gone like decreasing the cost of force sweep from 3 to 1 and tiering up the talent that suppose to increase focus gain from force leap.

 

So I may be doing more damage with master strike but less overall damage since I won't have so much focus as I could have and having force sweep costing 3 focus again makes me think, is it worth using anymore ?

 

What are yours opinion on this guys ? Any tips would be welcome.

[Coruscated]

No, upon logging in today I was so disappointed in combat spec that I switched toons. Eventually I'll get back on and respec Watchman, but I had no idea they were gutting the combat tree.

 

For the life of me I can't figure out why, either. It was underplayed and certainly not OP in any way. I hate PvP with my Sentinel, and forcing me to lose my great PvE abilities and spec PvP talents to advance the tree won't change anything.

 

Seriously, was a crappy thing to do.

[Ainianu]

if you want an aoe spec id recommend focus tree...

 

but combat is indeed decent right now, i would say its strength lies in decent premades due to the high speed buff and less survivability than watchman for example.

 

As to DPS, it parses higher than Watchman in my test dummy tests today, on 5min parses.

 

I was getting Combat at around 1400ish, and Watchman at 1300ish...

 

personally i recently have been giving watchman a go and whilst its dps overall is marginally lower, in practice its often higher due to combat requiring good timing on abilities after precision and such which can often be messed up, and the survivability of watchman is still much better.

 

It is really now down to heals vs immobilises etc i think for pvp. In pve the combat spec's dps wont be inturrupted really and due to more armour debuffs it does come out a fair bit higher.

[thepilk]

 

It is really now down to heals vs immobilises etc i think for pvp. QUOTE]

 

And Interrupts, the ability to chain 6-8 or so interupts in a row is what I really miss when Im not playing Watchman. The heal trickles are nice, but the disruption game is really a hallmark.

 

So presuming the damage is more or less a wash its kinda

 

Group mobility/counter mobility vs disruption and better survivability

 

Combat has always been my favorite, but those point blank leaps and quick kicks are a lot of fun.

[EboahEboah]

I think combat has gotten better, not worse personally. What are some of the things that you are having the most issues with? Your post is not really giving examples, just complaining. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I would just like more clear input.

 

And this is more twords Coruscated then the OP.

Edited April 13, 2012 by EboahEboah

[Arkerus]

The spec is better. Not really any worse than 1.0. Its still not a great PvP spec but it gets the job done if you have a healer. Its not great 1v1.

[thepilk]

What I a lot of people are having trouble with is that they are wearing PVP gear, which had its stats reduced. Expertise was retooled and raised, while its other stats taken down... this was to make it so that PVP gear was PVP specific. As a result people have less health, durability and stats and can create the appearance of a nerf to their class when infact its that gear got reshuffled. Top end became low end gear in some situations.

[OdamanPrime]

I've been playing combat all night and while it's no watchman, since i'm in a group with a good healer I find it very nice. I hated combat before this patch because of centering gain. It's probably the expertise changes that made the biggest impact though. Edited April 13, 2012 by OdamanPrime

[Bamxk]

I just tried combat again. Keep in mind i lvled combat 1-50 so i def know the way it works.. watchman is still hands down better for pvp.. its not even close. I have yet to try focus post 1.2

[Venjirai]

You should try Master Strike now as Combat.

Take the Focus Tree skill which adds 8% Master Strike damage.

 

Leap to a target, activate relic + inspiration + adrenal, use Precision Slash, use Master Strike, hope for crits and be happy for 10k damage and more in 3s.

[Sewerus]

You should try Master Strike now as Combat.

Take the Focus Tree skill which adds 8% Master Strike damage.

 

Leap to a target, activate relic + inspiration + adrenal, use Precision Slash, use Master Strike, hope for crits and be happy for 10k damage and more in 3s.

 

that is the point, before the patch I had more focus and could use more skills, ( force sweep and got 1 more focus from force leap ), so I consider it a nerf since they tell us, use only master strike, I am not really a fun of that tree anymore.

[Funick]

combat is best for huttball because of all the speed boosts and roots... but after giving it a short try I found I really missed watchman in every other wz.

[AidanLightwalker]

In pve, Combat is rockin! I've played both combat and watchmen, never really liked watchmen. While I was one of the rare people that though combat still was good before patch 1.2, I think its awesome now!!

 

Everything is more smoother, centering comes faster, almost all your main abilities are hitting harder. Animations are smoothed out so Zen BladRush spam is actually really effective and the boost to master strike and the increased window of dispatch??!! OMG.

 

I had no problem killing players in pvp and killed things very quickly in pve.

 

I know the community had a, "if your good, combat can be good but casual players struggled with it", stand - but good players are going to push combat over the edge. Wait to the numbers come out, my money is that they will nerf us here shortly unfortunately.

[Coruscated]

I think combat has gotten better, not worse personally. What are some of the things that you are having the most issues with? Your post is not really giving examples, just complaining. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I would just like more clear input.

 

And this is more twords Coruscated then the OP.

 

No offense taken. The reason I'm dissatisfied with the changes is that, as I stated, I hate PvP with a Sentinel. I have 6 active toons, (Shieldtech, Sorceror, Sniper, Sentinel, Shadow, Commando) and the Sentinel is the absolute last I'd choose for PvP.

 

As such, I have no interest in being forced into taking PvP talents to advance the tree. The new changes to Force Leap in particular (I lose extra focus in exchange for an extra second of lockdown) means nothing in standard PvE.

 

I LOVED the Combat Tree pre-1.2 as I was able to choose only talents that directly helped me in PvE, and now there are 3 useless talent sinks that I have to choose the least-sucky of.

 

This is what I used previously.

 

http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sentinel/18/?build=002300000000000000000000000003203022212012220120003001002300000000000000000000000000

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on the class, but I definitely am going to switch to Watchman now. When I want to PvP, I've got 5 other, more fun (for me, again not hating on the class) options, and the Sentinel was just for story/fun.

 

These changes feel very much like streamlining the class for the PvP jockeys, which is all well and good, but I'd rather stab myself in the eye with a fork than play consistent PvP with a sentinel. I liked doing simple flashpoints, dailies, etc. I'll try again with Watchman spec, but I have no idea what I'm doing with it yet so it will take time to get back into the Sentinel groove.

[EboahEboah]

No offense taken. The reason I'm dissatisfied with the changes is that, as I stated, I hate PvP with a Sentinel. I have 6 active toons, (Shieldtech, Sorceror, Sniper, Sentinel, Shadow, Commando) and the Sentinel is the absolute last I'd choose for PvP.

 

As such, I have no interest in being forced into taking PvP talents to advance the tree. The new changes to Force Leap in particular (I lose extra focus in exchange for an extra second of lockdown) means nothing in standard PvE.

 

I LOVED the Combat Tree pre-1.2 as I was able to choose only talents that directly helped me in PvE, and now there are 3 useless talent sinks that I have to choose the least-sucky of.

 

This is what I used previously.

 

http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sentinel/18/?build=002300000000000000000000000003203022212012220120003001002300000000000000000000000000

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on the class, but I definitely am going to switch to Watchman now. When I want to PvP, I've got 5 other, more fun (for me, again not hating on the class) options, and the Sentinel was just for story/fun.

 

These changes feel very much like streamlining the class for the PvP jockeys, which is all well and good, but I'd rather stab myself in the eye with a fork than play consistent PvP with a sentinel. I liked doing simple flashpoints, dailies, etc. I'll try again with Watchman spec, but I have no idea what I'm doing with it yet so it will take time to get back into the Sentinel groove.

 

Thanks for the reply! Well, I guess this is why they have 3 specs =]. The way you feel about combat was the same way I felt about watchman spec. I liked the self healing, but overall I felt bored a lot of the time. I feel that combat is more streamlined and yes, I do enjoy blade rush spam.

 

Well, just hope you find something you like. Frankly, looking at the tree changes to guardian, really making me want to try one out. Vigi tree looks beast!

[Cabroncito]

I guess I just dont understand then. I am loving Combat now more than before.

I have only ever played 1 PvP match (Huttball) and it was ok, but i had no idea what i was doing.

I guess since I never PvP I just dont see what these PvP abilities are that you are referring to (OP) since just about everything i have skill points in is useful.

Better animations and upped DPS, Its hard for me to actually keep up with my Sent, before I felt I was waiting on glitchy animations etc to continue my rotation.

 

And who uses force sweep? Maybe i've just been doing Heroics for so long now, that it just seems like a wasted ability. It wont incapacitate anything that isn't normal. So it has no affect on Silver and above.

 

Leap, Zealous, Precision, Blade Storm, Master, (maybe cuterize right here), Pop Zen, Blade Rush

[CivicTiger]

How is it not worth playing?

I solo'd another comabet sentinel and a operative healer, 2v1.

 

You just need to know how to play the spec and it in indeed the best solo spec in the game!

 

We have indeed been buffed! We not have access to Valor so our Zen can pretty much be on permanently, and we still got the MS buffs, cloak to remove snares e.t.c there is nothing a Combat Sentinel cannot do.

 

Watchment sentinels are debatable.

If I am 1v1 vs a Watchman I know he will try and get his DOT's on me as soon as he can.. so what do I do?

Debuff his acc by 90%, resulting in his DOT's missing, rusulting in near enough 0DPS from him.

Watchman having their accuracy debuffed, and having their DOTs curable bring them a massive downfall in DPS. Combat sentinels do not have this issue.

[Venjirai]

How is it not worth playing?

I solo'd another comabet sentinel and a operative healer, 2v1.

 

You just need to know how to play the spec and it in indeed the best solo spec in the game!

 

We have indeed been buffed! We not have access to Valor so our Zen can pretty much be on permanently, and we still got the MS buffs, cloak to remove snares e.t.c there is nothing a Combat Sentinel cannot do.

 

Watchment sentinels are debatable.

If I am 1v1 vs a Watchman I know he will try and get his DOT's on me as soon as he can.. so what do I do?

Debuff his acc by 90%, resulting in his DOT's missing, rusulting in near enough 0DPS from him.

Watchman having their accuracy debuffed, and having their DOTs curable bring them a massive downfall in DPS. Combat sentinels do not have this issue.

 

Dots apply even if the attacks miss.

And dots don't miss cause they are force attacks and are not affected by accuracy.

[CivicTiger]

Dots apply even if the attacks miss.

And dots don't miss cause they are force attacks and are not affected by accuracy.

 

Then how I can beat every Watchman sentinel with 80% hp left confuses me.

[Venjirai]

Then how I can beat every Watchman sentinel with 80% hp left confuses me.

 

Because I beat every Focus/Combat Sentinel as Watchman!!!

...

If you have Pacify, Saber Ward, Rebuke off the cooldown, you are gonna destroy every other Sentinel/Marauder if they don't.

[Ainianu]

Dots apply even if the attacks miss.

And dots don't miss cause they are force attacks and are not affected by accuracy.

 

the attacks that place the dots can miss however, the tactic is correct, a watchman sent you want to paci right at the start of a fight, where a combat sent you paci when you see precision

[BiggDirty]

Before the patch, Watchman was the superior spec hands down. Now, I'd say it's debatable. Neither is better or worse, just different. It really depends on your personal preference and playstyle.

 

 

Watchman:

 

Damage is more consistent, because your dots roll even if you get rooted or knocked back.

 

Builds centering quickly, which means more zen, which means more damage/self-healing.

 

 

Much better for interrupting healers. 6 sec kick and close quarters leap are great. However, due to the overall reduction in TTK (time to kill), this is less important now because a couple of good dps can simply burn a healer down without even concerning themselves with interrupting.

 

Much better at 1v1, especially sentinel vs sentinel. Watchman damage is not as susceptible to defensive cooldowns, and the self healing effectively amounts to a couple thousand extra HP in 1v1 situations.

 

 

No more access to 80% transcendence buff, this is a huge change for me as I use this a lot and I find it invaluable in high level play.

 

 

 

 

 

Combat:

 

Much higher burst potential. I have clocked over 2,000 DPS with it over one rotation. With Watchman I cannot crack 1600. Precision slash + master strike + blade storm + dispatch combo is absolutely devastating.

 

Bigger numbers, which is more fun to play (for me). I am getting the 5k hit medal almost every game now.

 

Builds centering just as fast now as Watchman does, which means more opportunities to pop zen/transcendence. This was combat's biggest weakness before the patch IMO, so it's a welcome change for sure and I am loving it.

 

80% movement speed on transcendence. A game breaker as far as I'm concerned. In organized PvP this is a must have. I can't tell you how many close games have been won because of this buff. I don't think I can ever go back to watchman, because I can't live without this talent.

 

Easier rotation. Not to say watchman is "hard", but combat is definitely easier to manage. The only thing you really need to keep track of is combat trance, so you know when to use blade storm for the guaranteed crit.

 

Very susceptible to defensive cooldowns. When I get in a 1v1 with an annihilation marauder and he uses rebuke/saber ward/pacify, I basically cannot even touch him, while he still ***** me through those cooldowns with his burns.

 

 

 

So, both specs have their strengths and weaknesses, but I will be staying combat because I love being able to burst people down in seconds with huge crits, and I absolutely need my 80% transcendence buff for premades.

[Spungey]

I will say one word.. Combat is Garbage... and I will respect your opinion and your playstyle..but combat doesnt have the near enough what Watchamn or Focus have

 

Giving examples:

 

Focus is better than combat because:

http://i.imgur.com/hV7IE.jpg[/img]"]http://i.imgur.com/hV7IE.jpg

^^ do you see that 6.9k Max Hit, that is a Force Sweep..36 damage off from hitting someone someone for 7k...Is there anything in the Combat Arsenal that can manage that.

 

Watch is better than combat because:

Merc Slash (5k) + Overload Saber dot(3 stacks ='s 1500 per tic) + Cauterize Dot (500) ='s that can all happen during 1 gcd.. (sry no SS for this on) but you get the idea.

 

Please stop spreading false info about Combat being the best spec, but if that is your playstyle then I'm all for it.

 

you are gimping your Op's group along with the pve group you joined. If they don't mind then there isn't a problem..But i would never want a Combat spec sentinel in my Premade Rated group when they finally come out. They just don't have the utility that watchman brings with the strong damage nor the AoE that a Focus spec has.

 

oh, sorry to burst the combat fanboy's bubble.. FACTS are FACTS

 

Download a parser that gives detailed information on how much damage your doing during that 1.5 seconds and I'll bet money, combat is well below the other 2 trees. end of story.

[Foxcolt]

I will say one word.. Combat is Garbage... and I will respect your opinion and your playstyle..but combat doesnt have the near enough what Watchamn or Focus have

 

Giving examples:

 

Focus is better than combat because:

http://i.imgur.com/hV7IE.jpg[/img]"]http://i.imgur.com/hV7IE.jpg

^^ do you see that 6.9k Max Hit, that is a Force Sweep..36 damage off from hitting someone someone for 7k...Is there anything in the Combat Arsenal that can manage that.

 

Watch is better than combat because:

Merc Slash (5k) + Overload Saber dot(3 stacks ='s 1500 per tic) + Cauterize Dot (500) ='s that can all happen during 1 gcd.. (sry no SS for this on) but you get the idea.

 

Please stop spreading false info about Combat being the best spec, but if that is your playstyle then I'm all for it.

 

you are gimping your Op's group along with the pve group you joined. If they don't mind then there isn't a problem..But i would never want a Combat spec sentinel in my Premade Rated group when they finally come out. They just don't have the utility that watchman brings with the strong damage nor the AoE that a Focus spec has.

 

oh, sorry to burst the combat fanboy's bubble.. FACTS are FACTS

 

Download a parser that gives detailed information on how much damage your doing during that 1.5 seconds and I'll bet money, combat is well below the other 2 trees. end of story.

 

You're watchman numbers are way way over inflated..so much so that it's hilarious.

 

Try hitting people with more than zero expertise and see if you get those numbers.

 

For organized PVP Carnage/combat is best..simply because of the run speed buff...

 

If you want to scrub it up in pugs..go spec watchman/annihilation since the self heals will let bads live longer.

 

I don't get why that is so hard for people to grasp.

[Nueshaks]

Is combat perhaps fun to play? Sure. Is it worth taking? No. Team dynamics are much more important now than they were pre-1.2. with so many healers QQ quitting ANY bit of healing helps your team do their jobs better. Damage output and cc abilities asside Watchman still is the spec to go for simply because your party buffs are invaluable. Be it pug or premade having the ability to do helacious damage and buff heal is too good to pass up. Watchman tree is what makes Sentinels truely unique which is why this game is consistantly making that the tree to take. Edited April 17, 2012 by Nueshaks