[1.2] A Death Knell for many Healers

[swtorEleani]

Step 1

Jump in a warzone

 

Step 2

Ask the healers how they are finding it.

 

Step 3

Come back and delete your comment.

 

 

QFT!

 

The truth about patch 1.2 in a PVP-healer point of view:

[Soshla]

edit: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/ Here ya go guys, go read up...if people have finished the new raid already...they didnt nerf you enough to break the game. You're just unable to adapt. So go read then come back.

I think it's a mistake to assume that every poster complaining about healing no longer being fun is performing poorly. People who think healing isn't fun because it's too easy, as Bioware did, are somewhat by definition not having a hard time, but still not enjoying themselves.

 

I stopped playing because healing got boring. They've dumbed down a lot of the mechanics. Equivalent nerfs that didn't affect healing mechanics would've been greatly preferred. It's about how Combat Medics/Sages etc. have had their specific mechanics become more shallow. You could easily redress a lot of the valid criticism as a dislike for homogenization.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Soshla

[RuQu]

 

edit: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/ Here ya go guys, go read up...if people have finished the new raid already...they didnt nerf you enough to break the game. You're just unable to adapt. So go read then come back.

 

Many of us are adapting just fine. I'm adapting to playing this game for its strengths and not its weaknesses. Namely, I'm playing the 8 single player Star Wars games they packaged with their simplistic and poorly balanced MMO.

 

Perhaps while doing so I'll find a class that they made that is more interesting than their boring attempts at healers. Strange, since healing and tanking (just as dull in SWTOR) are all I normally do, but since I already paid through July I might as well be open minded.

[KillerQuag]

Healing in a WZ was tough before as you are almost instantly singled out by basis of 'oh, he's got one light saber (or shooting a green beam), let's pwn him.' Combine that with you can now drop cash to get a crap ton of expertise in no time, which lets you dish out even more pain. 12% damage increase, 10% damage reduction, 4% heal bonus. Oh, and now all of your heals that used to just barely keep you up in a 1v1 circumstance take longer to cast, don't provide the same level of benefit, and deplete your non infinite heal resources quicker. I've got 3 healers. Scoundrel is better, the other 2 just took a huge nerf bat to the head.

 

Back to first statement. It's not about adapting. It's my opinion, my money, my free time, and my enjoyment. My opinion is they screwed over every class I enjoyed playing. My money will no longer be going to them. My free time will be spent elsewhere that actually provides enjoyment.

 

This game just released a massive turd of a patch. I could care less about making brothers and sisters of my characters. Now, if I chose to keep playing, I could devote even more time to repeatable daily quests for cash that I can dump into a ship I'm never on to get faction with an annoying robot. seems legit.

 

/quit

[Xaearth]

I love all your anecdotal evidence. I have some fun stories to share too that have no real value.

 

Lets see " The other day, I noticed that there were 200 people on the fleet and when someone spammed LF Healer for a hard Mode, I whispered them and guess what " they already found one" - conclusion - Healing is OP and there are too many healers.

 

That's one conclusion.

 

Another could be that several healers wanted to get in that last hurrah before the axe fell.

 

Seeing as "the other day", there were no healer nerfs on live.

 

I stated "If you find these changes to your class too difficult to play, then you're probably a bad player. Good players make adjustments."

 

You're not going to suddenly see all the NMM bounty hunters stop healing.

 

Maybe not, but we already have multiple accounts of NMM farm-status bounty hunters no longer healing NMM content.

 

If there was going to have been any real change it required more than 2ppl putting in the time to do testing & the other dozen parroting 'don't nerf me bro'

 

Spoken like a true fanboi.

 

I especially like how you glossed over the multitude of us saying 'don't nerf them bro'.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Xaearth

[RuQu]

Spoken like a true fanboi.

 

I especially like how you glossed over the multitude of us saying 'don't nerf them bro'.

 

Or how there were only a handful of people reporting testing results because BW only let a handful of people test....

[Strifegambit]

Or how there were only a handful of people reporting testing results because BW only let a handful of people test....

 

This right here is another major issue BW have ignored again, such disregard for their community is appalling

[RomerioLopez]

This right here is another major issue BW have ignored again, such disregard for their community is appalling

 

Agreed, and also, the small amount that were selected for testing, were not a valid cross-section of the community as a whole.

[Syylara]

Yeah, tried out half a dozen WZs, too aggravating. I felt like I was making almost no contribution. I would often not even get through a 2nd heal on a friendly target before they were dead.

 

Seeing the massive decrease in TtL (Time-to-Live) and for all intents and purposes spending more time staring at the respawn door than playing, I'm done.

[Maglen]

Consumption taking health every time I heal is bad enough. As a sage I have a talent that reduces consumption on cast down 2/4% from 15%-11%.

 

Problem is, I tested it today and it takes 12.6% of my max HP, not 11%. Another talent is supposed to reduce all damage by 1/2%. Apparently All doesn't count consumption.

 

Also, killing myself to heal is really starting to piss me off. It's counter intuative to healing.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Maglen

[muffinazer]

and plz think about this.. 2 healer mercs + 1 power T. were impossible to kill with battlemaster geared 6 ppl .. so when u thinking about with a little logic.. u can understand.. mercs/commandos were really OP (btw i have healer merc too)..

 

at least with this patch and balance we can easily see who is really good merc healer

[Strifegambit]

and plz think about this.. 2 healer mercs + 1 power T. were impossible to kill with battlemaster geared 6 ppl .. so when u thinking about with a little logic.. u can understand.. mercs/commandos were really OP (btw i have healer merc too)..

 

at least with this patch and balance we can easily see who is really good merc healer

 

LOL the only good merc healers around are the ones shooting rapid shots everywhere and watching their team die.

 

You can do anything else without overheating

[Xaearth]

LOL the only good merc healers around are the ones shooting rapid shots everywhere and watching their team die.

 

You can do anything else without overheating

 

Less QQ, moar PewPew!

 

For the PvP whinos: You do realize guarded Merc healers are going to be just as tanky as they were before?

In other words the changes did jack **** for your QQ.

[Strifegambit]

Less QQ, moar PewPew!

 

For the PvP whinos: You do realize guarded Merc healers are going to be just as tanky as they were before?

In other words the changes did jack **** for your QQ.

 

Irrelevant if we can no longer healer through damage on other people, the increase in DPS to PVP far outweighs any form of healing, it will now be zerg fests of dps

[Aaoogaa]

Sorry but your personal beliefs or feelings about something do not represent the community at large. I am sorry to report that these changes will not affect the number of healers in this game.

 

Please take this time to learn to adjust to change because Nerfs and buffs are part of any MMO.

 

You are correct it won't change the number of healing toons created...just the ones that are played. Day one we have people in general begging for geared healers for the new flashpoint...I did adjust to the nerf...I respecced gunnery so I could be rewarded by the expertise system instead of taking another 3-4% nerf on top of the CM specific nerfs.

[Strifegambit]

You are correct it won't change the number of healing toons created...just the ones that are played. Day one we have people in general begging for geared healers for the new flashpoint...I did adjust to the nerf...I respecced gunnery so I could be rewarded by the expertise system instead of taking another 3-4% nerf on top of the CM specific nerfs.

 

Yes im looking to probably make the change myself to Arsenal/Pyro, even though my guild needs healers for new content & PvE flashpoints, healing is just pointless in PVP now as a merc

[Aaoogaa]

Less QQ, moar PewPew!

 

For the PvP whinos: You do realize guarded Merc healers are going to be just as tanky as they were before?

In other words the changes did jack **** for your QQ.

 

I watch a sentinel blow up healers through guard...having a sentinel/healer vs a tank/healer isn't even fair. Is a great laugh watching the tank die from guard damage while the healer is doing everything they can to stay alive. This was before 1.2...now the combo is a friggin joke.

[XtremJedi]

Starting a forum thread about cancelling your subscription isn't constructive feedback. If he unsubs I promise you that Bioware will know about it. He doesn't need to start a forum thread about it.

 

Bioware obviously knows about the unsub and associated reason, because it gets sent to them.... but does that mean that they've really registered it? And taken in the information? Unfortunately, that's probably not what experience has shown us.

 

I reported the Focus Targeting bugs in the CSR tool many, many times, including test protocols for reproduction etc and got automated responses. I tested it after every patch. there were quite a few threads about it - during beta and the first couple of months of live. I posted in the Customer Services forum, asking why it wasn't in the Known Issues list they publish there (which ended up getting moved). I submitted Q&A questions and posted threads into the PTS forum (which ended up getting closed).

 

Targeting is about as basic functionality as you can get in an MMO, and yet the bugs with Focus Targeting still weren't fixed and it never made it into the Known Issues list. Focus Targeting was the only feature that could help sub-par healer targeting in this game really... but was broken and deeply unreliable.

 

Bioware certainly knew about it, in the sense that they had certainly received all of these communications since beta (including the forum threads that were moved or given pat responses to). Yet there was never any actual recognition that it was an issue, other than automated emails, which really don't count.

 

Many of us posted and gave feedback via CSR tool about the upcoming 1.2 patch changes. People tested and gave concrete feedback, suggested many other ways to nerf output without killing the classes and skill. But nothing changed. When people were saying that the nerf was expected, but that the way the nerf was implemented was wrong... there was no response to that at all really - only a further statement that the nerfs hit the metrics.

 

Bioware was definitely aware of all of the feeback on the 1.2 patch. But they didn't really listen.

 

I don't think that people come to forums to just whine about unsubbing. I think that they are people who thought the game had the potential to be really good and really wanted to love it, but have found themselves left out and want to register that feeling. They clearly care about the game and want to make it better - because they're still trying to affect its development and make it work for themselves. Otherwise, they would just go away.

 

It's very easy to dismiss people as being simply 'whining' when posting about unsubbing. But it quietly glides past some of the environmental factors that caused it. Often it has to do with having the feeling that you're not being heard or listened to at all and that the people making the decisions don't feel that they have to really explain themselves to you.

 

X

[Kradgar]

Its not really us healers who have to make the larger adjustments to our gameplay. In 1.2 we almost do the same things as pre 1.2 to put out the best healing we can - it will just be less now. However less healing is more relevant for the one receiving the healing than for the one doing it. Tanks already know it and will have priority anyway, but dps better take another course in damage avoidance because there is likely to be quite a bit less green goo coming their way.

[Ecoape]

I'm sorry, but people saying that they have unsubbed because of the changes to healing just seem delusional. Healing classes were rebalanced to give all healers similar performance quality overall, thus the op/scoundrel buff.

 

The system for medals are now far more generous for healers than it was before the patch.

 

I will however agree that tank/dps are still sligtly favored in pvp gains, but less so than before.

 

Day one of the patch I actually had a problem with too many healers in my warzones rather than too few. The battles were longer but these 20 games may ofc not be representable for everyone I realize that.

 

I'm a scoundrel healer so I know I'm slightly biased, but I am for once able to consistantly top the medal score in decent games, something I could almost never do before.

 

From my point of view people need to let the changes sink in abit and adjust their playstyle, and reflect on wether or not their class was abit too good before the patch.

[ErrantMercenary]

I'm sorry, but people saying that they have unsubbed because of the changes to healing just seem delusional. Healing classes were rebalanced to give all healers similar performance quality overall, thus the op/scoundrel buff.

 

Okay, this is basically the party line for all people still hanging around, and, I want to with absolute sincerity say before I move forward: Awesome! You still love the game! I am not trying, nor will I ever try to take that from you.

 

 

Now that, that's out of the way, if you can explain any of my following questions with regards to the changes, I will shut my yap and how, but this forum (and my subscription) are my methods for communicating with the development and player communities, and I have yet to see a satisfying answer on any of the following:

 

 

1) "Just play with the changes. If they really are that bad, BioWare will fix them!" Really? What gives you that idea?

 

 

To point: I hand leveled a fresh Commando on the PTS (a spectacularly boring affair, by the way), and my results were pretty much in line with all other PTS testing: I was a second-rate healer before (too many encounters designed around enrage timers and AoE damage I wasn't well suited to heal against), and now I'm a liability. RuQu and the gang at Sithwarrior have hard numbers to support the case, but it's beside the point. This forum has calmly, and politely offered our insight into how the healing community feels about where healing could be improved and we were roundly ignored. Why would I continue to play a patch in hopes it will get better when evidence suggests they don't care or know what I think at all?

 

 

2) What do you feel I owe BioWare?

 

It's my subscription, my money, and my time. I'm on the fringe as an extracurricular contributor, but why is it people feel entitled to yell at people for quitting a game? Even if the changes were subjective (like aesthetics! All armor is now PINK), people aren't stupid or bad or any number of other silly adjectives for voicing their opinion with their subscription. If they don't enjoy the game, they can pack up and leave, whenever, wherever, for whatever reason. Most of us are simply offering BioWare insight on how to win back our subscriptions for a game many of us are trying very hard to love. But at the end of the day, I've paid for my game and for my subscription, and if I don't like what I'm getting regardless of the reason, why is it I'm wrong to stop paying for it?

 

 

3) Why the insults and divisiveness?

 

 

To be fair, this one cuts both ways, and is not specific to the quote heading this post, but it is a real issue: Why is it we're fighting amongst ourselves on the topic? We're all healers here, and we all have that support mindset where we want to help the group succeed. Honestly, among the greatest tragedies of patch 1.2 is that it could cause such a huge rift in a community that was hands down the best subforum of the bunch. Now we don't look any better than the PvP forum where people were upset that they didn't win 100% of the time. But back to the question:

 

 

How is insulting people that are leaving by saying "You're just a bad!" or "Good players will adapt" (sidenote: People who spend endless hours analyzing, calculating, optimizing and presenting data aren't good players? Since when?) or "You're just a butthurt child" supposed to encourage us to stay? This is a line of communication between the aggrieved and the developers, not a personal attack on you or your gaming experience. The only reason I can drum up for you to be upset enough to sling insults is that you will now have fewer healers on hand to help you clear content or PvP with in which case: What you're doing is literally the polar opposite of productive.

 

 

 

Anyway, I've parroted identical sentiments on the PTS forum, and in virtually every thread here about the subject, so I'll leave it at that. But seriously: If you plan to continue playing, open threads on how you plan to adapt to the changes, and if you're on your way out like me: we've aired our grievances, let's not sling mud on the community that's staying behind. We'll see each other in other games (in my case Tera Online) I'm sure.

 

 

 

Good hunting fellow healers, and remember the cardinal rule:

 

Never ever let the party (teehee this is a pun) die.

[RDeanOU]

Bioware obviously knows about the unsub and associated reason, because it gets sent to them.... but does that mean that they've really registered it? And taken in the information? Unfortunately, that's probably not what experience has shown us.

 

I reported the Focus Targeting bugs in the CSR tool many, many times, including test protocols for reproduction etc and got automated responses. I tested it after every patch. there were quite a few threads about it - during beta and the first couple of months of live. I posted in the Customer Services forum, asking why it wasn't in the Known Issues list they publish there (which ended up getting moved). I submitted Q&A questions and posted threads into the PTS forum (which ended up getting closed).

 

Targeting is about as basic functionality as you can get in an MMO, and yet the bugs with Focus Targeting still weren't fixed and it never made it into the Known Issues list. Focus Targeting was the only feature that could help sub-par healer targeting in this game really... but was broken and deeply unreliable.

 

Bioware certainly knew about it, in the sense that they had certainly received all of these communications since beta (including the forum threads that were moved or given pat responses to). Yet there was never any actual recognition that it was an issue, other than automated emails, which really don't count.

 

Many of us posted and gave feedback via CSR tool about the upcoming 1.2 patch changes. People tested and gave concrete feedback, suggested many other ways to nerf output without killing the classes and skill. But nothing changed. When people were saying that the nerf was expected, but that the way the nerf was implemented was wrong... there was no response to that at all really - only a further statement that the nerfs hit the metrics.

 

Bioware was definitely aware of all of the feeback on the 1.2 patch. But they didn't really listen.

 

I don't think that people come to forums to just whine about unsubbing. I think that they are people who thought the game had the potential to be really good and really wanted to love it, but have found themselves left out and want to register that feeling. They clearly care about the game and want to make it better - because they're still trying to affect its development and make it work for themselves. Otherwise, they would just go away.

 

It's very easy to dismiss people as being simply 'whining' when posting about unsubbing. But it quietly glides past some of the environmental factors that caused it. Often it has to do with having the feeling that you're not being heard or listened to at all and that the people making the decisions don't feel that they have to really explain themselves to you.

 

X

 

Whether Bioware listens to feedback or not doesn't change that publicly crying out over the forums about how upset you are and that you are cancelling your subscription isn't constructive feedback.

 

Cancelling your sub is feedback especially when you tell them why. Making a public spectacle about the fact that you are going to do it is whining.

 

Don't try to lump this kind of post in with the truly constructive ones that Bioware ought to be listening to.

[Dast]

Whether Bioware listens to feedback or not doesn't change that publicly crying out over the forums about how upset you are and that you are cancelling your subscription isn't constructive feedback.

 

Cancelling your sub is feedback especially when you tell them why. Making a public spectacle about the fact that you are going to do it is whining.

 

Don't try to lump this kind of post in with the truly constructive ones that Bioware ought to be listening to.

 

Your attempt to bully us into submission isnt working. Bioware are ignoring all the constructive posts cause they know better with thier mysterious "metrics" that dont correlate to peoples experiences.

Well they made thier own problems they will have to live with the consequences of thier bad decisions.

[Solthar]

Okay, this is basically the party line for all people still hanging around, and, I want to with absolute sincerity say before I move forward: Awesome! You still love the game! I am not trying, nor will I ever try to take that from you.

 

 

Now that, that's out of the way, if you can explain any of my following questions with regards to the changes, I will shut my yap and how, but this forum (and my subscription) are my methods for communicating with the development and player communities, and I have yet to see a satisfying answer on any of the following:

 

 

1) "Just play with the changes. If they really are that bad, BioWare will fix them!" Really? What gives you that idea?

 

 

To point: I hand leveled a fresh Commando on the PTS (a spectacularly boring affair, by the way), and my results were pretty much in line with all other PTS testing: I was a second-rate healer before (too many encounters designed around enrage timers and AoE damage I wasn't well suited to heal against), and now I'm a liability. RuQu and the gang at Sithwarrior have hard numbers to support the case, but it's beside the point. This forum has calmly, and politely offered our insight into how the healing community feels about where healing could be improved and we were roundly ignored. Why would I continue to play a patch in hopes it will get better when evidence suggests they don't care or know what I think at all?

 

 

2) What do you feel I owe BioWare?

 

It's my subscription, my money, and my time. I'm on the fringe as an extracurricular contributor, but why is it people feel entitled to yell at people for quitting a game? Even if the changes were subjective (like aesthetics! All armor is now PINK), people aren't stupid or bad or any number of other silly adjectives for voicing their opinion with their subscription. If they don't enjoy the game, they can pack up and leave, whenever, wherever, for whatever reason. Most of us are simply offering BioWare insight on how to win back our subscriptions for a game many of us are trying very hard to love. But at the end of the day, I've paid for my game and for my subscription, and if I don't like what I'm getting regardless of the reason, why is it I'm wrong to stop paying for it?

 

 

3) Why the insults and divisiveness?

 

 

To be fair, this one cuts both ways, and is not specific to the quote heading this post, but it is a real issue: Why is it we're fighting amongst ourselves on the topic? We're all healers here, and we all have that support mindset where we want to help the group succeed. Honestly, among the greatest tragedies of patch 1.2 is that it could cause such a huge rift in a community that was hands down the best subforum of the bunch. Now we don't look any better than the PvP forum where people were upset that they didn't win 100% of the time. But back to the question:

 

 

How is insulting people that are leaving by saying "You're just a bad!" or "Good players will adapt" (sidenote: People who spend endless hours analyzing, calculating, optimizing and presenting data aren't good players? Since when?) or "You're just a butthurt child" supposed to encourage us to stay? This is a line of communication between the aggrieved and the developers, not a personal attack on you or your gaming experience. The only reason I can drum up for you to be upset enough to sling insults is that you will now have fewer healers on hand to help you clear content or PvP with in which case: What you're doing is literally the polar opposite of productive.

 

 

 

Anyway, I've parroted identical sentiments on the PTS forum, and in virtually every thread here about the subject, so I'll leave it at that. But seriously: If you plan to continue playing, open threads on how you plan to adapt to the changes, and if you're on your way out like me: we've aired our grievances, let's not sling mud on the community that's staying behind. We'll see each other in other games (in my case Tera Online) I'm sure.

 

 

 

Good hunting fellow healers, and remember the cardinal rule:

 

Never ever let the party (teehee this is a pun) die.

 

Wow, everything you said is absolutely perfect. Couldn't of said it better myself.

 

in other words, QFT

[RuQu]

Whether Bioware listens to feedback or not doesn't change that publicly crying out over the forums about how upset you are and that you are cancelling your subscription isn't constructive feedback.

 

Cancelling your sub is feedback especially when you tell them why. Making a public spectacle about the fact that you are going to do it is whining.

 

Don't try to lump this kind of post in with the truly constructive ones that Bioware ought to be listening to.

 

Please define constructive feedback, as you see it.

 

To me, constructive feedback does the following:

 

• Identify the problem/concern/issue. The more detail the better.
  
• Suggest alternatives/solutions for negative feedback.
  
• For positive feedback this can take the form of "do more of X" or ways to take the enjoyed feature to the next level.
  
• Feedback should be polite, but this does not mean it has to be positive or complimentary.
  
• For customer feedback (as opposed to reviewing something a friend did), you can/should also provide input into how large of a problem this is for you. Will it make you less likely to recommend the product, less likely to continue to use it, etc?
  

 

Now let's look at a post like the following:

 

"I disapprove of these changes and the way BW interacts with the community. There are lots of suggestions on the Healer/PTS forums that are have clearly been ignored. As I feel my gameplay has been negatively impacted and my feedback/subscription is not valued by BW, I am unsubscribing."

 

• Identifies the problem, namely negative gameplay changes and lack of community interaction from BW.
  
• Suggest solutions, namely those already posted around the forums.
  
• Is polite.
  
• Puts the importance of the complaint in perspective, in this case it is bad enough to cost BW the posters business (subscription).
  

 

So no, it isn't whining to post why you are unsubscribing, it is constructive feedback.