Jeopardydd Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) The only problem is people leaving when they're losing. If they sucked it up and stopped acting like children you wouldn't get tossed into their losing games near the end. They would get the comms they deserve (however little or many that may be) and you would get into a new WZ. The end. But this is a MMORPG and unfortunately sometimes you have to deal with other people being jacka**** that's what happens when you play with other people. They're not always as cool as you are. a) they give incentives to leave losing warzones rather than stay b) people tend to respond at least somewhat to incentives Therefore, c) people will leave. you are trying to defy logic itself if you think people should stay in losing warzones. Edited April 12, 2012 by Jeopardydd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DestructorSR Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 The only problem is people leaving when they're losing. If they sucked it up and stopped acting like children you wouldn't get tossed into their losing games near the end. They would get the comms they deserve (however little or many that may be) and you would get into a new WZ. The end. But this is a MMORPG and unfortunately sometimes you have to deal with other people being jacka**** that's what happens when you play with other people. They're not always as cool as you are. You're definitely right on this point. It disappoints me that you really need to be pre-made to avoid this nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanzBlix Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 This is what happens when you go through with changes that aren't properly tested. Very few level 50 PvP'ers on test. I havent' been able to play it yet, but it sounds pretty rough. I'll reserve judgement until I get in myself to play. 91 and 136 creds at level 50 respectively? What are they thinking? I have plenty of other ways to make money and have plenty, but that's an over the top nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 a) they give incentives to leave losing warzones rather than stay b) people tend to respond at least somewhat to incentives Therefore, c) people will leave. you are trying to defy logic itself. No, you are. If you give rewards for losing, people will lose. If you give rewards for winning, people will quit all losing teams. Solution: give them free stuff, kill all competition, and hand out welfare for all. No thanks. Just let them quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai-Eurah-Tird Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) They should've implement the quitter debuff, rated Warzone or not, quitting is the most discourteous thing you can do to your fellow PVPer. There is NO INCENTIVE for quitting, you get nothing, and you lose the respect of your fellow pvper. Bioware need to address the no reward issues though, because it is a contributing factor. Edited April 12, 2012 by Kai-Eurah-Tird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeopardydd Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 No, you are. If you give rewards for losing, people will lose. If you give rewards for winning, people will quit all losing teams. Solution: give them free stuff, kill all competition, and hand out welfare for all. No thanks. Just let them quit. no, if you give more rewards for winning, people will try to win. but if you give people incentives for leaving losing warzones rather than staying, people will leave. ergo, if you want people to stay in warzones AND try to win, you give them incentives to stay rather than leave and incentives to win rather than lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriasx Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Yes. lets make a bad situation worse by adding a deserter debuff. Apparently you guys think that people leaving is a big deal while games starting as 4v8 are not. Obviously you guys should be working for BW with such insight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjohnsonfhk Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 A thread where we all agree. Only Bioware's ineptitude could have brought us all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Currently I'm looking at a warzone gear grind equivalent to my current /played time just to go from BM to WH gear.. Not gonna do it... And for a marginal improvement of just a little more than 1% (slight increase in +Expertise on WH Gear - Stats are the Same as BM otherwise), why would you? It makes almost no sense unless you just have a personal goal and a ton of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torcer Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) No, you are. If you give rewards for losing, people will lose. If you give rewards for winning, people will quit all losing teams. Solution: give them free stuff, kill all competition, and hand out welfare for all. No thanks. Just let them quit. No, his logic was correct, yours is flawed. The old system did not reward losing; the old system rewarded participation with additional rewards for meeting certain objectives and winning the match. The new system removes the reward for participating and meeting objectives, leaving only the reward for winning. By removing the reward for participation and only rewarding winning, BW has removed the incentive to continue to participate if the player does not think he can win. Edited April 12, 2012 by Torcer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rothoul Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) A thread where we all agree. Only Bioware's ineptitude could have brought us all together. Best post of the day, as a matter of fact it's the best post for a month. Edited April 12, 2012 by Rothoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zez-Kai-Ell Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 No, you are. If you give rewards for losing, people will lose. If you give rewards for winning, people will quit all losing teams. Solution: give them free stuff, kill all competition, and hand out welfare for all. No thanks. Just let them quit. no mate if people leave their problem then i agree they don't deserve any reward from wz after quit, and if reward losers is incentive to lose? wrong the old system before the day 1.2 release was better. For pvp this patch is totally crap, indeed their pvp team don't think before act, the results will be visible inside some days, insane wz leaving, or and a lot waiting time to enter. but this is your opinion so i respect that, but if you think that this will not have serious consequences then wait to see, don't think just because we are on a pvp server that means that at least 50% of the players are just dedicating almost whole time to do pvp. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 no, if you give more rewards for winning, people will try to win. but if you give people incentives for leaving losing warzones rather than staying, people will leave. ergo, if you want people to stay in warzones AND try to win, you give them incentives to stay rather than leave and incentives to win rather than lose. Been there, done that. Players mass quit to get their dailies done as fast as possible. Now they don't because they gave daily credit for losing warzones. Medals were capped at 4 because players were "staying" and doing nothing to contribute to winning. Now players intentionally throw games. Your bad ideas have been empirically defeated time and time again. There is no solution beyond zero-sum (and this will KILL all casual play) penalties for losses (you lose more, depending hwo bad u get owned). So, I say, let them quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 No, his logic was correct, yours is flawed. The old system did not reward losing; the old system rewarded participation with additional rewards for meeting certain objectives and winning the match. The new system removes the reward for participating and meeting objectives, leaving only the reward for winning. By removing the reward for participation and only rewarding winning, removes the incentive to participate if the player does not think he can win. Very well stated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celticprince Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Yeah this was by far one of the worst design decisions made but as you could see on PTS posts nobody really tested pvp they were all pve kids so we get screwed till Bioware figures it out as the game continues to bleed subs. I love this game but in PVP I see the Warhammer effect starting to happen already I thought maybe the lead pvp guy would learn from how he murdered Warhammer but I guess not so he is back to kill another game I just have to point out this game was designed with PVE in mind and story first and foremost, the pvp aspect was always meant to be a secondary thing. I love the pvp in this game, don't get me wrong, But I loved PvP in WAR untill it got screwed. The few subs that will be lost in your idea wont realy matter in the large picture. Everyone can do the PTS so its on everyone that did not bother to test thier favorite part of the game ( whether that be pvp or pve) if it dont live upto your expectations. your own fault for not testing and getting your voice heard. That being said you do have a point about the mythic guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rothoul Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 No, his logic was correct, yours is flawed. The old system did not reward losing; the old system rewarded participation with additional rewards for meeting certain objectives and winning the match. The new system removes the reward for participating and meeting objectives, leaving only the reward for winning. By removing the reward for participation and only rewarding winning, BW has removed the incentive to continue to participate if the player does not think he can win. Yes, Torcer has relayed an excellent understanding of the situation although the trolls will disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty_Flacko Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I just have to point out this game was designed with PVE in mind and story first and foremost, the pvp aspect was always meant to be a secondary thing. I love the pvp in this game, don't get me wrong, But I loved PvP in WAR untill it got screwed. The few subs that will be lost in your idea wont realy matter in the large picture. Everyone can do the PTS so its on everyone that did not bother to test thier favorite part of the game ( whether that be pvp or pve) if it dont live upto your expectations. your own fault for not testing and getting your voice heard. That being said you do have a point about the mythic guy. some of us dont have time to roll a toon on the PTS and get it to 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeopardydd Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 No, his logic was correct, yours is flawed. The old system did not reward losing; the old system rewarded participation with additional rewards for meeting certain objectives and winning the match. The new system removes the reward for participating and meeting objectives, leaving only the reward for winning. By removing the reward for participation and only rewarding winning, BW has removed the incentive to continue to participate if the player does not think he can win. 1) the old system had rewards for winning (i.e. dailies) 2) the new system changes the incentives in such a way that it makes sense to leave a losing warzone. EVEN IF you are correct about it "fixing" the incentives regarding winning/losing, they created a NEW incentives problem. you understand now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 No, his logic was correct, yours is flawed. The old system did not reward losing; the old system rewarded participation with additional rewards for meeting certain objectives and winning the match. The new system removes the reward for participating and meeting objectives, leaving only the reward for winning. By removing the reward for participation and only rewarding winning, BW has removed the incentive to continue to participate if the player does not think he can win. I am stealing this for my Pvp Flaw list thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGambit Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 You're taking this a bit out of context. When I was young, we used to play video games like Street Fighter and such for fun. When you lost, you got to put in more quarters, and have other people rub your face in it. Also, you act as though the winners will always win simply because they won once. That's not the way it works. It's not a perpetual system of the winners continually winning, because WZs require strategy, teamwork, and the team makeups are random for the most part. It sucks that they removed the incentives (and even moreso that games STILL start w/ uneven numbers, causing an almost auto-loss), but let's not pretend that you HAVE to give the losers in a video game something. That's just this generation's penchant for self-entitlement. PS) Just for the record, I've seen tons of games turned around from 6v8 into wins. Most especially in Huttball. People tend to give up extremely easily in this game. In this game though we have to assume that both players gain nearly equal experience in game play by continuing to play. With that in mind, then the team that wins will be given an advantage (gear) going into the next round. Giving defeated players minimal means for which to stay on an even playing field with the winners will create massive attrition. In Street Fighter the playing field was always level. Winning in that game did not mean you were given dramatic improvements. On my server it is mostly pre-made teams at the core. So the class and even player make ups you run into will be the same over and over again. Which further reinforces the handicapping of losers. Any turn around history you may have seen in the past must be discounted because the rules of the game have changed so dramatically. What was true in the past may prove to not be true under this new rule set. Sorry if this is post came off harshly, but Bioware has chosen this thread to be representative of player discussion on the matter. Therefore we should work to be accurate, constructive, and to use sound reasoning. So lets use our economics, our probability, and our modeling of the situation with great prejudice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeopardydd Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I just have to point out this game was designed with PVE in mind and story first and foremost, the pvp aspect was always meant to be a secondary thing. I love the pvp in this game, don't get me wrong, But I loved PvP in WAR untill it got screwed. The few subs that will be lost in your idea wont realy matter in the large picture. Everyone can do the PTS so its on everyone that did not bother to test thier favorite part of the game ( whether that be pvp or pve) if it dont live upto your expectations. your own fault for not testing and getting your voice heard. That being said you do have a point about the mythic guy. somebody on another thread posted many, many threads in the tester forum about the problem. it's not a lack of testers speaking up. it's a lack of Bioware listening to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spellegren Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 WZ leaving is rampant right now, at the first sign of a loss everyone just drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feargal Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 FWIW (not a lot I'm afraid) as a brand new 50 I won't be queuing for wz's until this all gets straightened out. The prospect of getting gearstomped and then stiffed on comms pretty much kills any desire I have to pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sensiblepoast Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I stay and play in losing warzones, giving it my all, because I don't want the reputation of being a quitter. My time and my entertainment is more important than what other think about me. That being said I'm normally in premade and we stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 The few subs that will be lost in your idea wont realy matter in the large picture. Everyone can do the PTS so its on everyone that did not bother to test thier favorite part of the game ( whether that be pvp or pve) if it dont live upto your expectations. your own fault for not testing and getting your voice heard. This is such bunk. They WILL miss our subs. The game doesn't exactly have a buncha high end PvE crap to do either. And NO! Do not blame ME for not testing this debacle on PTS. My guild submitted 10 players who went out of their way to download the 20GB file, create characters and got our info submitted to Bioware. THEY didn't transfer us. I did MUCH MUCH more than I feel I should have to try to 'test' this flipping game. Seriously...to blame US is absolutely moronic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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