General Heal Nerf in 1.2 just to cover lack of Content Creativity + Challenge

[Soulgema]

Sigh. This is why pvp ruins mmos. No doubt some pvp whiners complained the usual complaint "I can't kill this guy 20 times in a row because hes now my lv and not 10 lvs below me, please fix this for me". So now because of this the rest of us have to suffer just so some pvp jerks can have their unbalanced OP experience they get in all other games, and here I actually thought that maybe this game might not go straight to the healing nerfs. Furthermore from what I am hearing from just about everyone on the server I play is that all classes (imperial side. probably republic too) are getting their heals nerfed except for operatives and I believe the republic equivalent which I think is a smuggler, i.e. the most OP classes in game. (at least operatives are imperial side)

 

So let me just get this straight bioware: you are telling me that my lightning spec sorcerer's heals which I use to barely keep myself and my companion afloat under heavy fire due to the amount of critical I use in my gear is now going to be brought down to the point where its barely useful? Also that this is going to happen with my other characters with heals. For example my mercenary who's heals aren't the best (without the heal tree) is now going to be even worse. And to top it all off the most OP class in game which all of my characters get their butts handed to them in pvp is now going to be the best healer in game in addition to being most OP?

 

Don't mess up a whole game based on pvp. I mean I must've suggested it to at least 4-5 mmos by now. If things are unbalance in pvp add debuffs that only activate when in pvp that way the rest of us don't have to suffer and another mmo doesn't have to become ruined.

[terminova]

Sigh. This is why pvp ruins mmos. No doubt some pvp whiners complained the usual complaint "I can't kill this guy 20 times in a row because hes now my lv and not 10 lvs below me, please fix this for me". *snip*

 

They nerfed healing because it was OP in FPs, Raids and Ops.

[Mergon]

Hi there.. IM the healer lol.

 

Too bad you dont got a sorc/sage now before the nerf :|

 

You seriously need to try it to understand.

 

I have a L50 Jedi Sage healer on Kathol Rift and a L38 Sith Inquisitor healer on my new server. If I'm being hammered and have to focue on keeping myself alive, the only real dps I can get off is my instance DoT

[Mergon]

A good player could bring a good healer down.

One of my guildmates was a very, very good PVPer (annoying person, very bad attitude, but good player) and he'd own a full Battlemaster healer any time of the day.

 

Just cos a bad player can't kill something doesn't mean it deserves a nerf. Maybe if we could test these things properly?!

 

But . . . could the healer take him down???

[CorellianWannabe]

They nerfed healing because it was OP in FPs, Raids and Ops.

 

Were the bosses complaining to Bioware that players were killing them too easily?

 

Does it matter if Hammer Station is cleared without the healer running out of juice?

 

By your logic they could have just as easily nerfed threat instead-that would make healing more challenging as well, right?

[CorellianWannabe]

***.. who would need 2 medpacks in any fight besides ops ? Geez..

 

And *** at you saying you need teamwork to take down a healer. U serious ? So they should be like raid bosses now ? uhm Im at a loss

 

So if no one would ever use it why bother to remove the ability? Shouldn't developer time be used for something more valuable-like posting baby names in patch notes?

 

So in a 1 on 1 fight the dps should always be able to dish out more than the healer can heal through? Should a tank not absorb enough to survive as well? Dps uber alles?

[Xisheng]

I've read most posts, a lot of fair points thrown about but I find it a bit easy to just heal someone up as a Sage in PvP, PvE on the other hand comes down to experience and group wise imo, for example I can just about heal a HM FP, with the chance of wipes but meh, on the other hand a healer in my guild did just fine in HM Ops in Centurion gear... so ye. I know they're changing the gear for PvP & PvE in 1.2 but still.. I looked @ the changes and said to myself, OK that's going to slightly screw me but I rolled a healer I'll deal with it, so ye healing in PvP/PvE won't be a simple case of Shield + Rejuv + Benevolence to pretty much save someone, but either way I'm cool with the changes atleast now I know that when I'm healing it won't be known as facerolling and healing 12k in 3/4 heals

[MarineGruntt]

Long time lurker, few time poster here.

 

This is really starting to disgust me. I really hope that this thread was moved and not started in the healer forums as that would just make it worse. The funny thing is most of you don't know WHY many of the healers have unsubbed, you just believe its because we went "OMG NERF INCOMING UNSUB NOW!" Not true.

 

We are mad that the devs idea of "balance" and "making the content more difficult" is to nerf the healers into the ground.

 

We are mad that even though the healer community put forth so much effort with constructive ideas, they decided to ignore everything we have said.

 

We are mad that our thankless, hated, boring job becomes more boring.

 

We are mad because of people like YOU coming in here and posting nothing constructive and instead telling us to shut up and suck it the eff up.

 

We are mad that people who have never played our classes think that they know more than us about our classes.

 

And please if you think that nothing more than QQing is going on over here please look at all threads/posts by RuQu, he actually takes the time to do the number crunching, run stuff through sims, and after doing so gives constructive criticism on what can be done better.

 

Please if you don't have anything nice to say, don't come here and flame us or I will sit here and tear apart each and every one of your posts, do my own number crunching, and do my best to make you look like a fool.

 

I hope you don't treat your PuG/Guild healers like this as I doubt you will see green numbers above your head ever again.

 

/endrant

[Strifegambit]

not to mention that fact that there has been zero - nil communications or assistance from BW on this aspect, the few answers they have given us were, deal with it, no justification watsoever

[Riggz]

Why does everyone ignore the fact operative healing is getting buffed? I'm kind of tired of the healing community ignoring us when in reality we are just as good as you are pre 1.2 and maybe even better post 1.2

[ErrantMercenary]

Why does everyone ignore the fact operative healing is getting buffed? I'm kind of tired of the healing community ignoring us when in reality we are just as good as you are pre 1.2 and maybe even better post 1.2

 

Same reason everyone else ignores that it's not the nerfs but the methodology that has healers upset. People are selective to reinforce their ideas.

 

The Operative buff is also not great news because

 

A) It doesn't actually address the issues the class faces (being pigeonholed into a boring rotation, a number of uncompetitive and outright broken abilities)

 

and

 

B) The main buff they listed (10%) doesn't match the buff currently in effect on the PTS (3.4%). If being lied to is your bag, then yeah, it's great news I suppose.

[JettVega]

While I'm very happy with a great deal of the new patch, the medpac nerf came as a very unpleasant surprise. I've played several MMO's and I've never seen something like this implemented with consumable heals. I just don't understand the point of such an arbitrary restriction. I know that medpacs usually end up being the only reason why my Mercenary and my husband's Operative can do Heroic 4's after waiting a few levels because without that extra heal, the boss fights are impossible.

 

I would urge Bioware to please reconsider this particular nerf. It seems unnecessary from every angle.

[dmanlong]

Why does everyone ignore the fact operative healing is getting buffed? I'm kind of tired of the healing community ignoring us when in reality we are just as good as you are pre 1.2 and maybe even better post 1.2

 

What exactly are you trying to prove at this point? You created a topic just a few minutes ago stating this same thing in the operative forums.? I get the sense that you are rooting for some sort of operative/smugg nerf by tying to say that we could heal as well as the other classes.

 

Based on the data done by the avid testers you will find that Operatives did in fact need a some buffs to be competitive.

Edited April 12, 2012 by dmanlong

[Darnu]

Well lets Face the truth:

 

Sorc/Sage Heal Nerf

Commando/Bounty Hunter Heal Nerf

Medpack only useable 1 time in the whole fight.

 

The Big Question is, did bioware just did this changes not only to make nerf cryers happy but also to adjust the Challenge of the PVE Content?

 

Soa, Crusher, Jarg&Sorno, and now maybe the Robot of EV will be make tougher just by nerfing the heal a healer can put out.

 

Every Mistake in a Raid will now maybe force a port off/wipe. Cause all your Sorcs cant provide Burst Heal anymore between tank and normal heal rotations without the tragedy to going out of force. The next thing is that Bounty Hunters now rely on a whole new Heat Management and Commandos on a whole new Ammo Management. In the end those most used Raid Heal Classes will do less heal. This will make the Content Challenging, and it will make some Encounters Luckbase, like they are allready due to 100 Bugs that BW never fixed, most of those BUGS where catched up by decent heal.

Decent Heal is now gone, so be happy with higher Costs for Raids due to wiping from Bugs/Movement Fails/Server-Client Positioning, that cant get healed up anymore fast or so that the rest of the Fight will be possible at all. Maybe some Bosses are nearly impossible to raid when we look on Nightmare Damage Outputs.

 

PvP:

Well i dont need to say anything about this i guess. Cause we will see how hard those changes will it make in Rated Warzones, and if Pugs ever see a healer anymore.

 

Overall:

We will have a decrease on every server on Healers who are willing OR able to provide the Group/Operation with enough heal to see/kill the Content. Maybe some Hardmode instances even dont work with Sorc/Sage/Commando/Bounty Hunter Healers anymore, or just some Encounters. In the end the now widespread mediocore healers will rollback, quit the game or change specc.

Wipes now more occur inclusive Flames to the Healers, or the Guy who made a mistake or a bug. So Moral sinks also, how many players in the end will enjoy the game when those Changes will stay for a Couple of Weeks without any adjustment when needed?

 

I hope the Healers can adapt, when not, bioware need to react fast, if not have fun in LFM 1 Sabo/Smuggler Heal. And have fun in wipe online for casuals.

 

I'm wondering, have you played on the PTS? I haven't. But I can say so far every single fight I've done and healed, as long as things happen like the tank pulls and holds aggro and the fight's being done right, it's rare I haven't been at full force. So how did the nerf play out? Was this your experience, where the tiniest mistake led to a wipe because healers couldn't heal through them? That does sound like a pretty big nerf. But I can see why a nerf was needed in the first place.

[Battilea]

Why does everyone ignore the fact operative healing is getting buffed? I'm kind of tired of the healing community ignoring us when in reality we are just as good as you are pre 1.2 and maybe even better post 1.2

 

Pretty simple. People who play sorcs don't really care that operatives are getting buffed. Nor do mercs. And since most healers are playing sorcs or mercs, well, that means you'll see little interest in the operatives.

 

Beyond that, the basic consensus of Op healing was that it was underpowered. Especially in relation to the other two, but also just by itself, lacking in healing related utility and so on. The changes, while nice, are essentially QoL ones. Even the AoE healing one isn't that big of a boon, since the heal isn't a smart heal and, for operations, it is still way, way outclassed by the sorc heal.

 

So, operatives are not really changed that much, while the others got hammered down. And so people focus on the big changes, the big changes that impact them, rather than the smaller changes that don't impact them.

 

I can say that, as an operative, I did think that the healing of the other two was a bit OP and it needed to be brought down some, while we Ops needed to be raised up a bit. I am not, however, happy with the point between the two they've chosen.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Battilea

[Larsenex]

Good players will adjust and do just fine, Average players will adjust and do fine, bad players will continue to whine on boards and make threads to cancel subscriptions if everything isn't EZ mode.

 

^^^ THIS.. the whine from the OP makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

 

As an OP healer I welcome the changes. Sorcs we OP and needed to be brought in line either with raw heals OR with some mechanic that forced 'force' management. I know I have both classes as healers and far and away the Sorc is EZ mode.

 

Edited April 12, 2012 by Larsenex

[GalacticKegger]

I totally agree, this is a bass ackwards approach that is most troubling.

 

Buff the bosses before you nerf the players is common sense.

 

Remember Bioware, that maybe 1/10 of all healers see end game content and many of us, like operatives/scoundrels struggle even as it stands today.

 

I want to have faith in this company but it's definitely getting harder and harder to do so.

 

Tanks already don't do enough threat and now healers won't do enough healing.

 

This is not the challenge we were looking for.

I don't think they are nerfing classes to compensate for boss strength. But I do think they are merely doing the industry-standard MMO juggling act to keep the balance between classes and their ACs intact. I've been reading throughout these forums where healers from other classes are going "thank you!" at the same time Sages & Sorcs are gasping "oh no!" All this tells me is that the tweaks will work so all healing classes can be featured equally.

 

Sage & Sorc players that go to a dps or tank class as a result will just make room for other healing classes to emerge. Eventually many will come back and parties will then have a plethora of choices. Having options is a good thing and I'm kinda thinking that's what Bioware's intent was.

Edited April 12, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[ToasterofDoom]

Pretty simple. People who play sorcs don't really care that operatives are getting buffed. Nor do mercs. And since most healers are playing sorcs or mercs, well, that means you'll see little interest in the operatives.

 

Beyond that, the basic consensus of Op healing was that it was underpowered. Especially in relation to the other two, but also just by itself, lacking in healing related utility and so on. The changes, while nice, are essentially QoL ones. Even the AoE healing one isn't that big of a boon, since the heal isn't a smart heal and, for operations, it is still way, way outclassed by the sorc heal.

 

So, operatives are not really changed that much, while the others got hammered down. And so people focus on the big changes, the big changes that impact them, rather than the smaller changes that don't impact them.

 

I can say that, as an operative, I did think that the healing of the other two was a bit OP and it needed to be brought down some, while we Ops needed to be raised up a bit. I am not, however, happy with the point between the two they've chosen.

 

Yay other operative healers! !hey do exist! For a while i thought I was the only one left.

 

But in all seriousness, Op healers still have to manage two resources with tiny pools using sub-par heals. I am glad they made changes to our capstone aoe heal so that it is not entirely useless and crippling to even use. They fixed a few things, while there is still an issue with kolto infusion and various utility (or lack thereof) issues, I am just happy to get anything at all. Especially since we have been all but written off by the community at large. We have always had to work significantly harder to compete in any role, so I have no sympathy for people complaining about how they got nerfed.

[HellionX]

A lot of healer hating on this thread. Me thinks I smell a pvp group zerg on these boards.

 

Look as 1.2 is out now have fun in your pvp have fun in your pve. People are not going to play a class that is no longer fun to play OP or not. So there won't be many healers left and without healers you will be getting kicked around and hopefully not having as much fun.

When that happens don't forget what you posted and said. No one who has their mind made up that healing classes are messed up are going to be swayed by your miserable ranting.

 

It is apparent that all of the outcry from the healing community didn't even get a single thought with these changes and no matter what you think, the people this happened to feel alienated from the community, maybe even their own friends and guilds.

 

So if some healers remain give them a hug, I don't think the "so what QQ L2P" attitude is going to keep many around.

 

Enjoy

[Masturomenos]

Oh by the way their creativly made new Operation was already cleared on HM within a couple hours of patch. Yea so not only did they piss us off with horribly tested nerfs they also didnt manag to make anything worth raiding for and if u even tried pvp today of course that is if u didnt have a 8v3 wz then thats more broken then ever.

[ChrisCap]

So, I'll admit when I first read the sorc nerfs to healing which at first I knew it was comming and felt like I can overcome it. I've been on my server of Twin Spears now for 34days played total, and with that said I know just how OP we were. From 8/16 man raids to BG's, even just solo questing I have to say were the flavor of the month. I can admit that we needed a bug fix, a fix that wouldn't allow us to out put two back to back 1.3sec Dark Infusion healing 10-12k in the mater of seconds. A bug fix that could have been easy to remove and still keep the class smooth.........NOPE! Instead my Dark Infusion which I hooked a 2TB external and was running a log last night and holy hell. It's ugly and I'm done. To all the trolls, and hard core BW freaks let me tell you I've been playing MMO's for about 10yrs. From the dark days of EQ, to the glory days of WOW, and never have I've been apart of the am-mature hour that EA-ware has produced.

 

Again I'm admitting fully that due to the bug we were OP, so before 1.2 and just painting a pic for you in math .I had 2009willpower, 35%crit, 58%surge, 10%alc, 628+ heals. Now when I threw up a Resurgence and proc Force Binding I could hit a tank for 2/Dark Infusions at 6.6k at a total of 13k in just 2 fast clicks=OP!!! (so this needs to be fixed): also note the 2009willpower is huge compared to most, well I have Ear/Imp/Trinks all with +28 willpower augments. Also If I felt like going higher I could pop my Artifice power trink for a massive 702+ healing or pop my surge/crit trink that would send me 80% surge, and 40%crit for a 7+k heal. Again OP.

 

Now LOL after loking at the log for the first time, why it can't be in game like that other game....lets look at my new stats. Well raid buff I have 1970willpower cause someone didn't tell us augments were getting split and adding more HP's seemed like the move to ensure this system would be abused, or maybe just lazy, or idk BW has a generator of reasons at this point they address in (yellow). Crit/Surg/Alc the same but I'm at a 624+ heal so no biggie there. So lets throw some healz 1970willpower, 35%crit, 58%surge, 10%alc and 624+healz. Casting Resurgence on main tank in Nightmare KP and look at these numbers. 5.8k. 3.2k, 3.6k, 3.8k, 5.5k, 5.8k. So not to shabby but no 6k even once unless I poped a trink then I hit a 6.1, and 6.3, again not to bad. But My dark Infussion is at a 2.3sec cast!!!!!! I watched my tank, and sometimes the person near him Die cause I couldn't save them. Bubbles don't absorb enough, Dark Heal even with the force binding proc of 60% chance to crit only outputs a 3.2, 3.4, 2.8, 3.4........No different then before and when I'm getting hit in Light armor for 15,876k and have 19,126HP yea healing myself is a pain, but a tank who has 22-23k it just too hard when here I am watching the slowest heal ever and that tank can kiss his ***** goodbye cause time and time again I failed. So I tried quick heals like Dark Heal and yea lol, Heal Pots heal better then that. So my AOE healing is nice. 450-780 ticks is big, prob the best and only real heal we have now only issue is it's a situtional heal that can't always be preformed and has to be called out so ppl know where to stand heal and move out of the way. It seems to be the only way since trying to keep a tank alive is work, and I don't mind a challange but this seems vinditive. Like to say the Empire is 50% sorc is prob true but I picked this class cause I enjoy healing and the story. I don't pvp at all and those that were exploting or just too hard to kill based on skill and a bug QQ'ed for the nerf well thanks to you all my sever will be down yet another healer. I'm unsubbing today and thanks EA-ware for the 30day's free and the pet but to be honest I would rather a check for 200$ since this game is unplesent and in my 34days played I can't think of a day I really had fun w/o my guildies, or firends on cause this game feels more like a chore rather then a hobby.

 

In short I like this game and it's sad you had to take lazy way of making contenet hard by clipping off classes that most raids were built on. Instead of fixing the bug and maybe bring up the healers to a common middle to work with. Nope EA-ware can add this title to the free to play in 6month catagory since this is the final nail for me and I really want my money back for buying your Collector's Edition Box cause thats all it was, nothing really special or cutting edge just a big box. Plus the few months worth of money spent trying to give a damn and kept saying, they'll get it right. Hopfully. Maybe. Well I'm not faithfull especially after Mass Effect 3, and DA2. I don't have 7yrs to wait like I did with that other game and yea call me whatever you want. Or troll me idc, I'm not some noob or part of the group of ppl who QQ right away, but I couldn't stay silent on this at all. It felt disappointing more then anything and hear to say goodbye and good luck EA-ware.

[AnEvilBus]

you view nerfs as content?

[Drakkip]

I agree with you. I think all of this complaining is not needed. In my opinion these people needs to just get a life and just play the game. Who really cares about the changes like you said it makes a great challenge to the game and i could not of said it better

 

These people saying "it's only bad players whining" , or "just play the game", would be the same ones hypnotically chiming in "Four legs good, two legs better!" I hope that anything important in game or real life never rests on any of your shoulders or we'll all be screwed. Public outcry is fundamental in the progress of change. Silently bending over and taking it is what allows for broken things to remain broken for so long.

 

It's great you want to be a sheep and just take it, however, don't hate on all the people who see that something is broken and have the courage to stand up and say "Hey this is broken!" Either that or you are one of the pigs...

[Lashknife]

These people saying "it's only bad players whining" , or "just play the game", would be the same ones hypnotically chiming in "Four legs good, two legs better!" I hope that anything important in game or real life never rests on any of your shoulders or we'll all be screwed. Public outcry is fundamental in the progress of change. Silently bending over and taking it is what allows for broken things to remain broken for so long.

 

It's great you want to be a sheep and just take it, however, don't hate on all the people who see that something is broken and have the courage to stand up and say "Hey this is broken!" Either that or you are one of the pigs...

 

Sugar coat it all you want, healers were too good before. This coming from someone with a 50 Commando healer. Am I happy I got nerfed? No. Do I accept it was needed? Yes.

[XtremJedi]

Sugar coat it all you want, healers were too good before. This coming from someone with a 50 Commando healer. Am I happy I got nerfed? No. Do I accept it was needed? Yes.

 

It's not the nerfs that are the problem, it's the simplification of play-style and the reduction of skill as a factor.

 

'Rotations' became simpler. Healing classes are less able to mix in utility and DPS than before, making their play less varied. Sage/Sorc got slower and more single-target oriented. There are fewer valid choices at any given point - making judgement and skill less a factor than before.

 

In general, healing output has been homogenised... so that there is less ability to burst for a short time and recover - taking another dynamic out of play. Healing is now more than ever a question of hitting a given level of output with a given 'rotation' and trying to reduce any variation as much as possible.... and that given level is defined by the mechanics, not by your skill. The 'optimum' level will be the same for an average player as it is for an excellent player.

 

For Combat Medics and Sage/Sorc, the resource changes have ended up actually simplifying resource management. Sages/Sorcs need to use their force regain tool less often, while taking another option away for healing others. Their choice is pretty much to heal or not heal... rather than choosing different ways of healing based on force drain. CM resource management changes seem to have the effect of simplifying rotations and removing bursts.

 

All of the pressures in the mechanics push players towards an average performance. Any attempt at variation or excellence is punished by the mechanics. That's what's wrong with these changes:

 

The very best you can ever do, is become average.

 

Where's the fun in that?

 

X