is this right? QQ about sith operatives

[Wheelerific]

LOL @ telling us Shiv never goes under 3k on a crit when you aren't even full BM.

 

Troll harder.

~~~~~~~~~~

Yea, of the 4 attacks that happen frequently, Hidden Strike, Backstab, Shiv, Lacerate, they dont ever go under 3k on a crit, unless the target popped a -inc dmg defense buff.

~~~~~~~~~

 

Notice my qualifying statement after I said that, unless the target popped a -inc dmg defense buff.

 

My surge is 76.36%, Power is 453, Cunning 1521, crit 31.73%, tech power 1224, Bonus Dmg 689.8. This is with only my crit buff and the blue 2h stim popped, which gives 104 Cunning, 43 power. Those go higher as I receive the other classes buffs, obviously..

 

When I open and burst a target, I ALWAYS have relics and/or adrenals and/or red exp buffs rolling.

 

 

I honestly have never seen any of those 4 attacks crit, and do under 3k damage, call me whatever you want.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Wheelerific

[Thoop]

people don't really know what they are talking about, i just think it has become fashionable to "CRY NERF ON OPS!! cuz all the cool kids are doing it too.

 

simple solution, roll an ops to see just how much they suck outside of that big opener. they really dont have much that compares to all other classes doing the same role. When you do comparisons vs the other builds it would appear that ops need a huge buff to stay competitive

at the end of the day tho forum QQ wins out as is proven by 1.2

[clickonce]

What point is it that you all are missing? If you can fight back, you have a chance. If you can't fight back, you don't have a chance. And you believe that when a player doesn't get a chance to fight back, it's because they are bad, not due to the mechanics of the attacker?

 

I don't think anyone has missed the point you are trying to make... it's just not a valid point.

 

You aren't losing due to a lack of strategy once the fight begins. You are losing due to a lack of strategy before the fight ever started.

 

Team up. If you want death match, there are much better (and more balanced) games out there for that.

 

I don't play an operative/scoundrel.

[KonstantinT]

I can confirm, when my operative is in heal spec I'd have to be 50% or below for another operative/scoundrel to drop me without being able to react. Same thing for powertech.

 

Please realize that operatives/scoundrels are OPPORTUNIST. They go after vulnerable people. You don't notice all the times you are at full health or surrounded by allies and one runs by you in stealth not even bothering to attack. What you DO notice are all the times you are at 50% and a scoundrel/operative attacks you out of stealth. This is their job.

 

Powertech can actually stun you for longer than operative. Mezzes are not stuns. I posted this before, but learn to recognize animations. Only use your cc breaker in special circumstances (like standing in fire or acid) or for stuns (easily recognized by spazming and elecricity going through you, operatives also leave a giant knife in your chest). DO NOT EVER use cc breaker for knockdowns (easily recognized by laying flat on your face) they are way too short or mezes (easily recognized by standing dazed slightly swinging from side to side) those break on damage and worry not some idiot will break you out with aoe shortly or if you're dotted next tick will get you out of it.

Edited April 11, 2012 by KonstantinT

[clickonce]

Maybe it's just me, maybe it's the ops. I don't know. I do pretty good on shadow against everyone but operatives - whether I win or lose. Operatives, good ones, on the other hand, typically will only let me get a couple of attacks off before they kill me. Then, they heal the 5K damage I did and move on ...

 

You are doing something wrong or have really poor gear. I have an 80 shadow and have done both inf and balance specs and have never had a problem.

 

The only time you'd have a problem is if your cc break is down.. but even then you have options as they aren't going to kill you in 5 sec. knockback, stun/root, run... or force cloak.

 

If my cc break is up, and its 1v1, then they are a dead operative... even if they do get the jump.

[ImSaved]

~~~~~~~~~~

Yea, of the 4 attacks that happen frequently, Hidden Strike, Backstab, Shiv, Lacerate, they dont ever go under 3k on a crit, unless the target popped a -inc dmg defense buff.

~~~~~~~~~

 

Notice my qualifying statement after I said that, unless the target popped a -inc dmg defense buff.

 

My surge is 76.36%, Power is 453, Cunning 1521, crit 31.73%, tech power 1224, Bonus Dmg 689.8. This is with only my crit buff and the blue 2h stim popped, which gives 104 Cunning, 43 power. Those go higher as I receive the other classes buffs, obviously..

 

When I open and burst a target, I ALWAYS have relics and/or adrenals and/or red exp buffs rolling.

 

 

I honestly have never seen any of those 4 attacks crit, and do under 3k damage, call me whatever you want.

 

This just isn't true, sorry. My Scoundrel is full BM, all Surge / Power modded, I have better stats in every category than you and Blaster Whip / Shiv hits under 3k regularly, only breaking that barrier on lesser geared targets, or if I pop both Relic and Adrenal at the same time. If my target is wearing Heavy Armor, with 600+ expertise, I can't remember the last time I saw 3k on Blaster Whip, it just doesn't happen.

 

You also have to take into account, that not everyone takes the 10% extra damage to Shiv from the Lethality tree. But even then, it doesn't break 3k regularly, and certainly not ALWAYS.

[Agemnon]

I can confirm, when my operative is in heal spec I'd have to be 50% or below for another operative/scoundrel to drop me without being able to react. Same thing for powertech.

 

Please realize that operatives/scoundrels are OPPORTUNIST. They go after vulnerable people. You don't notice all the times you are at full health or surrounded by allies and one runs by you in stealth not even bothering to attack. What you DO notice are all the times you are at 50% and a scoundrel/operative attacks you out of stealth. This is their job.

 

Powertech can actually stun you for longer than operative. Mezzes are not stuns. I posted this before, but learn to recognize animations. Only use your cc breaker in special circumstances (like standing in fire or acid) or for stuns (easily recognized by spazming and elecricity going through you, operatives also leave a giant knife in your chest). DO NOT EVER use cc breaker for knockdowns (easily recognized by laying flat on your face) they are way too short or mezes (easily recognized by standing dazed slightly swinging from side to side) those break on damage and worry not some idiot will break you out with aoe shortly or if you're dotted next tick will get you out of it.

 

 

Even then any class could bring someone from 50 to 0 if they have their cooldowns up.

[Kleve]

find your escape button. And you are losing to the only class that has been nerfed. Pve is that way ------->

 

lol!!

[Wheelerific]

This just isn't true, sorry. My Scoundrel is full BM, all Surge / Power modded, I have better stats in every category than you and Blaster Whip / Shiv hits under 3k regularly, only breaking that barrier on lesser geared targets, or if I pop both Relic and Adrenal at the same time. If my target is wearing Heavy Armor, with 600+ expertise, I can't remember the last time I saw 3k on Blaster Whip, it just doesn't happen.

 

You also have to take into account, that not everyone takes the 10% extra damage to Shiv from the Lethality tree. But even then, it doesn't break 3k regularly, and certainly not ALWAYS.

 

I'm 100% referring to when I'm ready with my adrenal/relic going, 100-0 style.

 

Also referring to my personal experience, with my gear, my strategy, my spec, my terms.

 

Not running around stabbing randomly trying not to get eaten by a zerg of people.

 

I have no reason to fabricate the truth, I just simply don't see under 3k, tons of 3.1-3.4.

 

I can confirm, when my operative is in heal spec I'd have to be 50% or below for another operative/scoundrel to drop me without being able to react. Same thing for powertech.

 

Please realize that operatives/scoundrels are OPPORTUNIST. They go after vulnerable people. You don't notice all the times you are at full health or surrounded by allies and one runs by you in stealth not even bothering to attack. What you DO notice are all the times you are at 50% and a scoundrel/operative attacks you out of stealth. This is their job.

 

Powertech can actually stun you for longer than operative. Mezzes are not stuns. I posted this before, but learn to recognize animations. Only use your cc breaker in special circumstances (like standing in fire or acid) or for stuns (easily recognized by spazming and elecricity going through you, operatives also leave a giant knife in your chest). DO NOT EVER use cc breaker for knockdowns (easily recognized by laying flat on your face) they are way too short or mezes (easily recognized by standing dazed slightly swinging from side to side) those break on damage and worry not some idiot will break you out with aoe shortly or if you're dotted next tick will get you out of it.

 

Very good summary, this is precisely what I do.

 

Opportunistic 100%.

 

Squishies (Sorcs, some sins, Operatives opening on someone, Snipers).

 

No point for me to try to take out tanks, he'll simply survive and not die giving ample time for someone else to show up and help him kill me.

 

Skirt around the shadows, the perimeter.

 

Sure, Ill go for tougher targets on some occasions, they're carrying the ball in huttball, waiting on the endzone edge for a pass, guarding a node solo, etc, but I personally see no point in not playing to my strengths, which I feel I do well.

 

If you're different, great, but don't hate on people who do things, and like things differently.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Wheelerific

[unicornfive]

just done a wz, civil war - got killed by a sith operative without even managing to fire back or anything. reason, he killed me b4 and i managed to escape, throw flash nade, but he still caught me and killed, didnt have much of a chance as in the first few secs of combat he took nearly 75% of my health away

 

now when i ressed i went bk to the turret i was gaurding, he came out of vanish, completly stunned me for like 10 secs, and during those 10 secs he killed me without me getting any kind of shot against him

 

im asking is this fair??? - one of the reasons i quit wow was becasue the rogues in that game were just to powerful at pvp, and it looks like the sith operative is going the same way

 

why should any class be allowed to have that many stuns available to them!!

how should any class be allowed to be able to vanish for that amount of time!!! - fyi, sith vanish from there spawn point in civil war and can run to what would be the right hand turret for them without losing vanish

 

There is no such thing as Sith Operative....

Operatives are Imperial, not Sith

Edited April 11, 2012 by unicornfive

[Absalon]

If you are good at your class, you shouldn't be worried about the nerfs. The only ones worried about the nerfs are the ones who are not getting their kills without dying ... 40+ times per warzone.

 

Could you be any more of a hypocrite? If you were good at your class, then you shouldn't be worried about operatives who are about to nerfed...again.

[CrunkShizzle]

the sad part is

 

its the ones that whined and cried after they got killed by operatives that are the reason why they got nerfed

 

why do they think they havent did anything to compensate the nerfs like you know.buff there mobility,or do other things to make up for it

 

 

but i dont know,im not believing that thing i heard about them nerfing operatives to stop people from unsubbing until i see the actual post made by a bioware dev that said it.that just says for itself how terrible the pvp devs are in this game

[ImSaved]

I'm 100% referring to when I'm ready with my adrenal/relic going, 100-0 style.

 

Also referring to my personal experience, with my gear, my strategy, my spec, my terms.

 

Not running around stabbing randomly trying not to get eaten by a zerg of people.

 

I have no reason to fabricate the truth, I just simply don't see under 3k, tons of 3.1-3.4.

 

 

 

Very good summary, this is precisely what I do.

 

Opportunistic 100%.

 

Squishies (Sorcs, some sins, Operatives opening on someone, Snipers).

 

No point for me to try to take out tanks, he'll simply survive and not die giving ample time for someone else to show up and help him kill me.

 

Skirt around the shadows, the perimeter.

 

Sure, Ill go for tougher targets on some occasions, they're carrying the ball in huttball, waiting on the endzone edge for a pass, guarding a node solo, etc, but I personally see no point in not playing to my strengths, which I feel I do well.

 

If you're different, great, but don't hate on people who do things, and like things differently.

 

In your first post you specifically said Shiv (3,800) in your damage rotation. I'm sorry, but Shiv isn't hitting anywhere near that hard on someone with gear. It's just not possible. In fact, I don't know if I've ever seen a 3.8k Blaster Whip, even on targets with awful gear.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible get over 3k, I'm just saying that fabricating numbers to make yourself look l33t isn't helping.

[Agemnon]

the sad part is

 

its the ones that whined and cried after they got killed by operatives that are the reason why they got nerfed

 

why do they think they havent did anything to compensate the nerfs like you know.buff there mobility,or do other things to make up for it

 

 

but i dont know,im not believing that thing i heard about them nerfing operatives to stop people from unsubbing until i see the actual post made by a bioware dev that said it.that just says for itself how terrible the pvp devs are in this game

 

But... but... the 5% backstab buff! You know, the bandaid on the broken bone

[ChrisLoL]

Operative aren't op if you get them out of stealth, if you get cced by someone in stealth mash your tab button and any random attack you'll get them out of stealth quite fast. Now if you use your trinket to get out of their 1.5 sec stun you deserve to lay there and take it

[wwkingms]

ops CAN open for 1.5

 

debilitate for 4 seconds

 

vanish, and re open for 1.5 all before resolve is capped.. this is verified

 

thats 7 seconds of some scrub coward doign free dmg on my clothie without me fightning back if i dont happen to have my trinket up

 

and YES i have been stun locked 100% to 0% by operatives on my full BM 660 expertise sorc

 

 

this is not balance

 

 

your nerf is deserving bads

[Ich_Bin]

ops CAN open for 1.5

 

debilitate for 4 seconds

 

vanish, and re open for 1.5 all before resolve is capped.. this is verified

 

thats 7 seconds of some scrub coward doign free dmg on my clothie without me fightning back if i dont happen to have my trinket up

 

and YES i have been stun locked 100% to 0% by operatives on my full BM 660 expertise sorc

 

 

this is not balance

 

 

your nerf is deserving bads

 

I call BS. Debilitate gives full resolve. LOL @ "this is verified".

Go spread your misinformation somewhere else.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[Wonkadude]

Amen brother

[Raist-]

just done a wz, civil war - got killed by a sith operative without even managing to fire back or anything. reason, he killed me b4 and i managed to escape, throw flash nade, but he still caught me and killed, didnt have much of a chance as in the first few secs of combat he took nearly 75% of my health away

 

now when i ressed i went bk to the turret i was gaurding, he came out of vanish, completly stunned me for like 10 secs, and during those 10 secs he killed me without me getting any kind of shot against him

 

im asking is this fair??? - one of the reasons i quit wow was becasue the rogues in that game were just to powerful at pvp, and it looks like the sith operative is going the same way

 

why should any class be allowed to have that many stuns available to them!!

how should any class be allowed to be able to vanish for that amount of time!!! - fyi, sith vanish from there spawn point in civil war and can run to what would be the right hand turret for them without losing vanish

 

you play on vulkar highway, hehe. /smile

[Rizael]

ops CAN open for 1.5

 

debilitate for 4 seconds

 

vanish, and re open for 1.5 all before resolve is capped.. this is verified

 

thats 7 seconds of some scrub coward doign free dmg on my clothie without me fightning back if i dont happen to have my trinket up

 

and YES i have been stun locked 100% to 0% by operatives on my full BM 660 expertise sorc

 

 

this is not balance

 

 

your nerf is deserving bads

 

You sir are the very definition of bad, if you do it in the order you have stated you get 400 resolve from hidden strike, then 800 more from debilitate (meaning 1200) and you are resolve capped, the only way to get 7 seconds is to double open which is being removed. You can't stamp things with your own seal and call them verified, it just makes you look stupid when you are completely wrong.

 

Sidenote: If you took some defense talents like the mez shield you would not die in a rotation as operatives will not break it with a trinket (unless bad) thus giving you time to recover from the knockback and stun/sprint/kb. Classes have the talents to counter operatives and because you choose not to take them operatives get nerfed :/

[exhya]

ops CAN open for 1.5

 

debilitate for 4 seconds

 

vanish, and re open for 1.5 all before resolve is capped.. this is verified

 

thats 7 seconds of some scrub coward doign free dmg on my clothie without me fightning back if i dont happen to have my trinket up

 

and YES i have been stun locked 100% to 0% by operatives on my full BM 660 expertise sorc

 

 

this is not balance

 

 

your nerf is deserving bads

 

says the sorc xD

seriously you play a basic dps long distance classe it mean you are squishy ok?

OP is suposed to be a squishy killer still ok?

also there is something called "purge" try to use it sometime

[zaknaphein]

a full BM geared operative can still kill heavys in under the time the 1.5 second knockdown wears off.

 

i have 5k armor nearly 18k health and 670 expertise and full BM operatives can nearly 1 shot me.

my commando healer is dead before the 1.5 seconds knockdown is over.

 

even after the operative nerf they are still stupidly stupidly overpowerd, it lituraly feels like the players is hacking but they are not. its how stupidly broken operatives are still.they need a major looking into and nerfing badly.

 

I know right? This is hilarious.

 

Proof here :

[zaknaphein]

says the sorc xD

seriously you play a basic dps long distance classe it mean you are squishy ok?

OP is suposed to be a squishy killer still ok?

also there is something called "purge" try to use it sometime

 

actually he's wrong. What he says is confirmed, is not correct.

 

The correct order is double HS + debilitate

 

HS+debilitate fills the resolve bar. And the above thing with 1.2 isnt possible anymore, not that it served any purpose to waste a cd such cloaking screen.

[Christonya]

Two things:

 

One: Operatives / Scoundrals are fine. Idiots like yourself die to them, complain and as a result they are getting nerfed which brings me to point 2:

 

They are getting nerffed next patch, or rather, tomorow.

[killerwookie]

I bet all u ppl complaining about operatives/scoundrels didnt put any of ur talent tree points in to the 'increased stealth detection' skill.

 

Pretty much every class has the option to put 2 points into increasing their stealth detection..........now, be honest.........when u were looking at ur talent tree, did u think 'I'll increase my stealth detection to make it easier to avoid the stealthers openers', or did u think 'Need moar damage and skillz that hurtz pplz'.

 

Yeah, thats right....u chose dps over self preservation, coz u'll come on the forum and b*tch and moan till the stealthers get nerfed.