Who Swtor was made for.

[GalacticKegger]

In the SWTOR vernacular and on a scale of 0-5, with 0 being a complete misfit & 5 being a perfect fit:

 

• Extreme (0): they live to pwn the game & its community. RL is an accessory to playing. Is either on the pro circuit or wishes they were.
  
• Hardcore (3): advanced player who studies, theorycrafts and practices in detail. Full tier end game success is a desired goal. Occasionally schedules RL around the game.
  
• Casual (5): intermediate player who studies, theorycrafts and practices enough to achieve team play competence. Eventual HM success & occasional OPs participation is a desried goal. Schedules the game around RL.
  
• Occasional (4): plays the game just to play with no set goals other than basic advancement, exploration & socializing. Plays when the mood suits them.
  

Cheers!

Edited April 10, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[CorellianWannabe]

Yes. That is explicitly what I'm saying. It's a TV show where I have some control over it.

 

The only real control players have is over the casting-how the actor looks. Otherwise the storylines are set in stone and doesn't change. Light/dark choices still lead to the same place in the end.

 

That's not necessarily a bad thing but it's not the most engaging diversion for some people-that's why they want some sort of challenge in the gameplay. If I were playing D&D and being railroaded down the path I at least want a few memorable combats to make turning up worth the effort (barring of course the social aspect of hanging out with friends, but even then we could be doing something else if the story and gameplay are both uninteresting).

[Vindigore]

 

Many players who wanted this to be their new hard raiding game have moved on, and it isn't clear they will come back. Meanwhile the average players have been able to complete content labeled 'hard' and 'nightmare' and feel that this is their game.

 

So what happens when the designers start making 'hard mode' actually hard and 'nightmare mode' something that only the most dedicated players in organized guilds can complete?

 

Will they be able to get the players who wanted this level of challenge come back to consume the new 'hard' and 'nightmare' content?

 

Will the players who have completed 'hard' and 'nightmare' when it was easy continue to have success, or will they get frustrated with the difficulty?

 

And for a preview of this, just look at the posts whining about the healing nerfs and medpack changes coming in 1.2, and this is before anyone gets a chance to see if the new content is more difficult than current content.

 

Heck many of the post already have some variant of 'I am a hard / nightmare raider and with these changes the content will be impossible'.

 

I don't envy the balancing act the developers will have to perform to keep from alienating various segments of the games population as they move forward.

 

In fact, if I were them I'd just focus on several broad segments and not try to please everyone, especially the small niches.

 

Excellent observation. I m one of these players. Spend a lot of years playing games/content that required 110% focus/skill - what you call "challenging" and "real" hard modes. Life & maturity taught me that I was just wasting time. Figured out that having pressure & anxiety for a game is moronic - my whole daily real life is full of it, why I'd want to add more (especially now that I have to keep in mind the stroke/heart attack danger due to age). Now all I want is to relax while playing. Heck on single playing games I always choose the easiest mode.

 

SWTOR at the beginning was awesome on that part - I could play it without reading guides/min-maxing my spec/gear, being focused 100% on the game. Felt like the BWL runs that we did being overgeared with AQ to sell epics to ppl with no chance of being in a raiding guild - we used to run them with 31-34 ppl, 10 of them totally ignorant of the place & the mechanics & I was still able to chit chat on grp chat while playing, or even to be drunk during the raid. I still havent experienced anything remotely relaxed as these moments while our grp was RP'ing @ Chrommagus (instead of fighting) or just "nabbing" around, making life difficult for the others - ofc, this wouldnt happen every time, it was 1-2 grps @ the most every such raid, different each time, so noone would feel like he "carries" the others all the time. Imagine a tank being in "silly mode" and pulling without stops -> made all the raid play to its very best. E.g. in such cases we found ourselves fighting Broodlord + a gazzilion of whelps that hadnt died because tank was running. Ofc, you ll get wiped sometimes but noone will care because if you decide to play "right" you ll do it easily.

 

I played the PTS for almost 10 days now - game feels different, more hostile & unforgiving. The healing nerfs, the medpack nerfs & the overall increased difficulty alienate me. Who could expect anything else? They listened to the guilds at the summit, not the casual player. Guilds always wanted harder content than the avg player. Hardcore/elite guilds want even more difficult content. Casuals, dont have time or dont want to pay money to go to a summit, the vast majority of the attendants are hardcore ppl.

 

Whats saddens me is that they advertised a whole different kind of MMO, a story-driven MMO, not a challenge or gear-driven and that means that we shouldnt focus on these to progress & see every twist of the story. Its the story that we are after and gear, challenges and mix/max gameplay shouldnt be essential for us. All I want is an "easy" MMO, thought that SWTOR would be it - 1.2 tries to prove me otherwise. So far, I felt that this could be my game for the years to come, now I ll possibly quit after the 6 months are over.

 

P.S.: No, WoW & the others arent easy - at least as I mean it. Easy is to be able to clear content with 60% of the ppl attending/knowing what to do (avg people, not pro's). Easy is to be able to play non-optimal specs with success and still clear everything. Easy = much much tolerable towards mistakes, non- optimal rotations, non-optimal raid groups. SWTOR was the first MMO that was close to this, feels like it wont be anymore. Well, back in looking for such a game.

 

P.S. 2: As you have understood bragging about having xx gear / yy achivements / zz ranks means nothing to me. Want challenge & something to brag about? Come and try to survive in my real life - the 12h+ work/day & with money just enough to pay the bills - and to save some responses, MMO's are the cheapest entertainment, thats why I play them.

[livnthedream]

Excellent observation. I m one of these players. Spend a lot of years playing games/content that required 110% focus/skill - what you call "challenging" and "real" hard modes. Life & maturity taught me that I was just wasting time. Figured out that having pressure & anxiety for a game is moronic - my whole daily real life is full of it, why I'd want to add more (especially now that I have to keep in mind the stroke/heart attack danger due to age). Now all I want is to relax while playing. Heck on single playing games I always choose the easiest mode.

 

SWTOR at the beginning was awesome on that part - I could play it without reading guides/min-maxing my spec/gear, being focused 100% on the game. Felt like the BWL runs that we did being overgeared with AQ to sell epics to ppl with no chance of being in a raiding guild - we used to run them with 31-34 ppl, 10 of them totally ignorant of the place & the mechanics & I was still able to chit chat on grp chat while playing, or even to be drunk during the raid. I still havent experienced anything remotely relaxed as these moments while our grp was RP'ing @ Chrommagus (instead of fighting) or just "nabbing" around, making life difficult for the others - ofc, this wouldnt happen every time, it was 1-2 grps @ the most every such raid, different each time, so noone would feel like he "carries" the others all the time. Imagine a tank being in "silly mode" and pulling without stops -> made all the raid play to its very best. E.g. in such cases we found ourselves fighting Broodlord + a gazzilion of whelps that hadnt died because tank was running. Ofc, you ll get wiped sometimes but noone will care because if you decide to play "right" you ll do it easily.

 

I played the PTS for almost 10 days now - game feels different, more hostile & unforgiving. The healing nerfs, the medpack nerfs & the overall increased difficulty alienate me. Who could expect anything else? They listened to the guilds at the summit, not the casual player. Guilds always wanted harder content than the avg player. Hardcore/elite guilds want even more difficult content. Casuals, dont have time or dont want to pay money to go to a summit, the vast majority of the attendants are hardcore ppl.

 

Whats saddens me is that they advertised a whole different kind of MMO, a story-driven MMO, not a challenge or gear-driven and that means that we shouldnt focus on these to progress & see every twist of the story. Its the story that we are after and gear, challenges and mix/max gameplay shouldnt be essential for us. All I want is an "easy" MMO, thought that SWTOR would be it - 1.2 tries to prove me otherwise. So far, I felt that this could be my game for the years to come, now I ll possibly quit after the 6 months are over.

 

P.S.: No, WoW & the others arent easy - at least as I mean it. Easy is to be able to clear content with 60% of the ppl attending/knowing what to do (avg people, not pro's). Easy is to be able to play non-optimal specs with success and still clear everything. Easy = much much tolerable towards mistakes, non- optimal rotations, non-optimal raid groups. SWTOR was the first MMO that was close to this, feels like it wont be anymore. Well, back in looking for such a game.

 

P.S. 2: As you have understood bragging about having xx gear / yy achivements / zz ranks means nothing to me. Want challenge & something to brag about? Come and try to survive in my real life - the 12h+ work/day & with money just enough to pay the bills - and to save some responses, MMO's are the cheapest entertainment, thats why I play them.

 

you have story mode for that. there are players that have beaten story mode soa with only half the intended players, and others that have beaten it wearing only relic/implants/weapons. you have your easy content.

 

also, attempting to blame "hardcore guilds at the guild summit" is disingenuous. bioware invited guild leaders (you know, the ones that actually represent the guild, which is why they did it) from all kinds of different guilds, based on different metrics. some of the rest attended on their own dime.

[LukeSkyyBaller]

they spent all their money on voice actors...what a complete waste....spacebar FTW

[Vindigore]

you have story mode for that. there are players that have beaten story mode soa with only half the intended players, and others that have beaten it wearing only relic/implants/weapons. you have your easy content.

 

also, attempting to blame "hardcore guilds at the guild summit" is disingenuous. bioware invited guild leaders (you know, the ones that actually represent the guild, which is why they did it) from all kinds of different guilds, based on different metrics. some of the rest attended on their own dime.

 

In all regards, my point was about 1.2 & the direction the game is taking. In PTS story mode isnt easy. Healing is so tense and mistakes are grave. And no, I m not a full rakata geared player - I shouldnt be just for story mode.

 

For the ease of conversation lets say that there are 3 kind of guilds, the elite, the hardcore and the casual guilds. The first two are very vocal, they want to prove their superiority over other peoples, or to prove their skills (to whom I wonder), or just want a really tough challenge (for which I ve already expressed my opinion) and the game doesnt offer them that chance (currently), since a) the content is easy and anyone can complete it, b) gear is easily obtainable by all kinds of players. The casual guilds are happy with the way the things are. Since the first 2 want the changes, they protest, express their dissatisfaction at the forums, even start "doomsday" threads (aka the game will go FTP, we will all leave, etc). Any real casual wont bother to get in a fight (even a verbal one) over just a game - there are more important things in life to fight for, so you get which people will get the attention and the catering ...

[DarthDetonate]

they spent all their money on voice actors...what a complete waste....spacebar FTW

 

We were made fully aware of that going in and it was pushed as a selling feature.

[Meldwyn]

We were made fully aware of that going in and it was pushed as a selling feature.

 

I was certainly aware, from everything produced prior to release, that this was a story driven MMO (ala ME series). What I didn't plan for was the total disconnect with end-game and re-playability being somewhat dubious (certainly don't get this in two beta weekends). The stories don't diverge enough nor hold my interest enough to keep me "alting" for "end-game". That's the rub for me.

[KrittaB]

We all know that more sandbox elements would help for end game, but what we currently have is exactly what I expected us to have. PVP and raids, and dailies for the people who don't like either one.

[Ahkronn]

Threads like this should have a definition table of some words and expressions, as seen by the OP.

 

I'm saying this because, i.e., Hardcore Played can mean an infinitude of different things for different people.

 

What is Hardcore?

 

What is Casual?

 

Some good points were made here, and one of the best "words" used here is "Niche".

It's completely understandable that a game where they spent millions will be aimed to the wider slice of the audience. It's understandable for even an "hardcore-niche" player, if that player is not completely self-centered on his view.

 

A game like this couldn't be made for niche audience. It has to roll out for the wider audience, and maybe, just maybe, if things go right, add "hardcore" content in the future to please the niche audience.

 

For now, the game is what the game is.

[Shrikestalker]

Hardcore.. that word gets batted around so much that it barely resembles anything of it's actual meaning anymore. Trying to classify players as 'hardcore' is the worst because there really isn't a hardcore (or softcore) player. Only particular games can be considered 'hardcore'.

 

Examples?

 

Final Fantasy 11 (FFXI). EvE. Darkfall. Lineage. DAoC. Everquest.

 

All of those games are considered 'hardcore' by many of the people that play (played) them but for different reasons.

 

Some like Lineage, Everquest, and FFXI really just demanded your time as the hardcore factor (the longer you play, the stronger you get).

 

Others like Darkfall and EvE were considered hardcore because many things were permanent upon death of your character as in, other people can take your stuffs. You kept your 'skill' but that could be all if you weren't smart about gameplay.

 

DAoC was considered by those who played it as some kind of 'hardcore' pvp game. Having never played it I can't understand why because it just sounded like a casual game to me; log in, get with your faction and do pvp til your eyes fall out in RvR. Since it was a game built on massive groups of people fighting, you didn't have to be hardcore because your faction was so large it covered your 'softness'. You could succeed just by being on the right side which doesn't sound hardcore at all.

 

 

Personally, I never consider ANY game that is able to be macro'ed in any way and played with just three buttons or required a metric crapton of addons just to play it "hardcore".. how could it be? You simply download the programs you need to make it gameplay 'softcore' easy, read/follow some guides and just do exactly what they say do and..voila! You're now a "hardcore" player because you played a 'hardcore' game and beat X boss with 50 addons, your Nostromo and your Steel Series programmable keyboard.

[Jjix]

1) MMOs that don't have "hardcore" players are MMOs that are dying. And the reason, in my view, is that ideally a MMO is a massive self-sustaining virtual world that really has no beginning nor end. (Obviously they do have beginnings and ends, but in the heart of a good MMO one can barely tell.) Anytime you have this situation of a self-sustaining virtual world, hardcore gamers will be there. When the content is endless, more effort and time is always better.

 

SWTOR's problem is that it isn't a MMORPG, it is a SPOG (single-player online game). It isn't a massive virtual world in which there is endless content and community driven activity. It is a single player game that, like all single player games, has a beginning and end. Consequently, it doesn't allow for hardcore gaming anymore than Mass Effect allows for hardcore gaming. All hardcore gamers manage to achieve is that they finish the game faster than everyone else.

 

2) I believe SWTOR represents the end of this "single player online game" design philosophy which has been the bane of the mmorpg world for almost a decade.

 

Since WoW demonstrated that most mmo players spend their time soloing, game after game after game has come out with this quest-based soloing design philosophy, each one failed, and each one blamed their failures on not pursuing this philosophy hard enough! "Grouping" became a bad word; "hardcore" became derogatory; and the well-balanced citizen with a job and a real life became the MMO ideal. These "casuals", as they were called, had too much real life to really want a virtual life, so developers figured that there must be something wrong with the "life" aspect of online games -- and that translated into throwing out the socializing aspects of these games and focusing instead on the solo experience. Solo experience for the tired citizens who comes home from work, sick and tired of people, and just wants to chill out in from of the TV . . . I mean, PC . . . for a few hours before bed. They want the SPOG.

 

Now they've tried it, now they've put every last cent into the ultimate SPOG . . . and the consensus: the game is failing. Perhaps you can blame it on the scifi genre, perhaps you can blame in on the lack of PvP (actually, that is a pretty valid concern), perhaps on the stability or performance, but all of these excuses -- which have worked for failed SPOGs in the past -- fall short because everyone knows this game was the ultimate SPOG.

 

The problem isn't the graphics, character customization, or too much advertising. The problem is that the SPOG philosophy doesn't work (well) and with that realization the dark age of MMOs (the WoW period) is, in my opinion, finally coming to an end.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Jjix

[Shrikestalker]

 

What is Hardcore?

In today's backwards logic?

 

Do you have these things:

 

1. Programmable macro keyboard?

 

2. Programmable macro mouse?

 

3. Programmable macro speciality item like Nostromo?

 

4. Dual SLI/Triple SLI, two/three video card setup for your rig?

 

5. Complete player guides you follow like a Bible written by XJunkies, XClan, or Xwhatever?

 

6. Macros downloaded for every situation you might come across?

 

 

 

If you only have 1-2 of those, you may not be 'hardcore'.

 

 

 

[KrittaB]

The problem isn't the graphics, character customization, or too much advertising. The problem is that the SPOG philosophy doesn't work (well) and with that realization the dark age of MMOs (the WoW period) is, in my opinion, finally coming to an end.

 

The "dark age" that brought MMO's into the main stream and provided entertainment for millions of people instead of hundreds of thousands?

 

 

Sandbox MMO's don't thrive, and just because a game isn't a sandbox hardly means it isn't an MMO

[Lxkane]

In the SWTOR vernacular and on a scale of 0-5, with 0 being a complete misfit & 5 being a perfect fit:

 

• Extreme (0): they live to pwn the game & its community. RL is an accessory to playing. Is either on the pro circuit or wishes they were.
  
• Hardcore (3): advanced player who studies, theorycrafts and practices in detail. Full tier end game success is a desired goal. Occasionally schedules RL around the game.
  
• Casual (5): intermediate player who studies, theorycrafts and practices enough to achieve team play competence. Eventual HM success & occasional OPs participation is a desried goal. Schedules the game around RL.
  
• Occasional (4): plays the game just to play with no set goals other than basic advancement, exploration & socializing. Plays when the mood suits them.
  

Cheers!

 

I like these definitions of the different terms. Yes I think I find a way to paraphrase them into a sig.

 

On topic.

 

I never played wow. I didn't like the aesthetic and traditional MMO combat bores me.

 

(Yes I know swtor has traditional MMO combat and I hate it.)

 

The best MMOs I've played always made pvp the endgame where pve was simply there to fuel the endgame pvp in terms of gear, levels, crafting resources, and money.

 

The hook to those games though was that winning in the pvp of those games would then provide a boost to the pve side of those games. So winning in pvp would garner you more money from mobs, more crafting resources, cheaper store prices for armor etc.

 

This game currently doesn't do anything like that for its endgame. Right now its endgame doesn't revolve around developer designed mechanics but around developer designed content.

 

And that's the problem swtor has, like it's been said swtor is an amusement park ride and you can only ride the same roller coaster so many times before it becomes boring.

 

Instead of building us more roller coasters they need to build us a playground where we can essentially make our own fun.

 

In other words instead of endgame flashpoints, and operations following a wow route, they need endgame pvp systems that have an effect on the entire server. Whether that system is akin to base/castle/fort/town sieges, or open world guild land grabbing depends on the devs.

 

But until then swtor will follow an ebb and flow model where people come and go as new flashpoints and operations are released and take breaks after finishing the new content.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Lxkane

[Vindigore]

1) MMOs that don't have "hardcore" players are MMOs that are dying. And the reason, in my view, is that ideally a MMO is a massive self-sustaining virtual world that really has no beginning nor end. (Obviously they do have beginnings and ends, but in the heart of a good MMO one can barely tell.) Anytime you have this situation of a self-sustaining virtual world, hardcore gamers will be there. When the content is endless, more effort and time is always better.

 

SWTOR's problem is that it isn't a MMORPG, it is a SPOG (single-player online game). It isn't a massive virtual world in which there is endless content and community driven activity. It is a single player game that, like all single player games, has a beginning and end. Consequently, it doesn't allow for hardcore gaming anymore than Mass Effect allows for hardcore gaming. All hardcore gamers manage to achieve is that they finish the game faster than everyone else.

 

2) I believe SWTOR represents the end of this "single player online game" design philosophy which has been the bane of the mmorpg world for almost a decade.

 

Since WoW demonstrated that most mmo players spend their time soloing, game after game after game has come out with this quest-based soloing design philosophy, each one failed, and each one blamed their failures on not pursuing this philosophy hard enough! "Grouping" became a bad word; "hardcore" became derogatory; and the well-balanced citizen with a job and a real life became the MMO ideal. These "casuals", as they were called, had too much real life to really want a virtual life, so developers figured that there must be something wrong with the "life" aspect of online games -- and that translated into throwing out the socializing aspects of these games and focusing instead on the solo experience. Solo experience for the tired citizens who comes home from work, sick and tired of people, and just wants to chill out in from of the TV . . . I mean, PC . . . for a few hours before bed. They want the SPOG.

 

Now they've tried it, now they've put every last cent into the ultimate SPOG . . . and the consensus: the game is failing. Perhaps you can blame it on the scifi genre, perhaps you can blame in on the lack of PvP (actually, that is a pretty valid concern), perhaps on the stability or performance, but all of these excuses -- which have worked for failed SPOGs in the past -- fall short because everyone knows this game was the ultimate SPOG.

 

The problem isn't the graphics, character customization, or too much advertising. The problem is that the SPOG philosophy doesn't work (well) and with that realization the dark age of MMOs (the WoW period) is, in my opinion, finally coming to an end.

 

No, WoW (that you keep talking about) in nothing like SPOG. When at max level, you cant do anything but group in order to advance your chars. All the story (the little one that there is), progresses in the raids. A game that Forces you to group, cant be a single player game.

 

This game, if it fails it will be because : a) after focusing on the relaxed players at the beginning (thus alienating the hardcore), it seems to turn its attention to the hardcore (with 1.2), thus alienating the remaining relaxed players, b) a lot of self centered "hardcore" people, screamed, whined and cried aloud at the forums trying to turn this game into something that wasnt at the beginning (a hard challenging game) and until their wishes came true (call me 1.2), they flamed it so hard that alot new potential customers run away. Funny thing is that they said so many bad things about this game, that even if it does turn to be almost as they want it, they will not come back because they 'd be a "SWTOR player"*.

 

SWTOR isnt a a SPOG as you call it. If it was, I d be able to solo all the content : all the heroic 2/4 quests, all the FP (solo fp's) and all the raids (solo raids). As long as this cant happen, this aint a single player game.

 

* This is fast becoming an accusation, a player description that defines incompetent players who succeed in a very easy game.

[Ravand]

Being Hardcore is not healthy anyway.

Sure you can do it. Everyone can go Hardcore for a while... Soon they realize life is not playing a game all day.

 

Some day you will be an ex hardcore player, you will be disgust at other hardcore players.

It might be cause they will be doing the same mistakes you did

( wasting years of your life running around virtual worlds )

making fun of you when you try to warn them, even calling you a troll.

 

Or it could be that you envy them for doing, what you cant do anymore

[Gungan]

No, WoW (that you keep talking about) in nothing like SPOG. When at max level, you cant do anything but group in order to advance your chars. All the story (the little one that there is), progresses in the raids. A game that Forces you to group, cant be a single player game.

 

This game, if it fails it will be because : a) after focusing on the relaxed players at the beginning (thus alienating the hardcore), it seems to turn its attention to the hardcore (with 1.2), thus alienating the remaining relaxed players, b) a lot of self centered "hardcore" people, screamed, whined and cried aloud at the forums trying to turn this game into something that wasnt at the beginning (a hard challenging game) and until their wishes came true (call me 1.2), they flamed it so hard that alot new potential customers run away. Funny thing is that they said so many bad things about this game, that even if it does turn to be almost as they want it, they will not come back because they 'd be a "SWTOR player"*.

 

SWTOR isnt a a SPOG as you call it. If it was, I d be able to solo all the content : all the heroic 2/4 quests, all the FP (solo fp's) and all the raids (solo raids). As long as this cant happen, this aint a single player game.

 

* This is fast becoming an accusation, a player description that defines incompetent players who succeed in a very easy game.

 

You can solo all the heroic 2 quests, and some heroic 4s can be soloed by stealthers.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Gungan

[Seregul]

In the SWTOR vernacular and on a scale of 0-5, with 0 being a complete misfit & 5 being a perfect fit:

 

• Extreme (0): they live to pwn the game & its community. RL is an accessory to playing. Is either on the pro circuit or wishes they were.
  
• Hardcore (3): advanced player who studies, theorycrafts and practices in detail. Full tier end game success is a desired goal. Occasionally schedules RL around the game.
  
• Casual (5): intermediate player who studies, theorycrafts and practices enough to achieve team play competence. Eventual HM success & occasional OPs participation is a desried goal. Schedules the game around RL.
  
• Occasional (4): plays the game just to play with no set goals other than basic advancement, exploration & socializing. Plays when the mood suits them.
  

Cheers!

 

All this tells me is that you think of yourself as casual, and therefore the way you play must be what defines someone as casual. Also that you aren't particularly threatened by people who play less than you, and you feel obligated to take potshots at those who play more than you.

 

The reason most of these definitions fail is because they attempt to look at casual and hardcore as existing on a single spectrum. That isn't accurate at all.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Seregul

[Jett-Rinn]

You can solo all the heroic 2 quests, and some heroic 4s can be soloed by stealthers.

 

I hear this stuff and it's hard to believe; my group finds heroics very challenging and we aren't new at this gaming thing. It maybe easy for a few people but that doesn't mean it is for everyone...we all seen the disaster in Cataclysm with the "Dungeons are Hard" fiasco; millions of lost subs later Blizzard is scrambling to win people back.

 

We currently have a situation where so called pro gamers are crying that it's too easy while us mere mortals are wondering why we have to go through an area of 50 elites to complete a level 40 quest objective and "u r a bad" doesn't cut it when your casual base is lining up to leave after you have persuaded the developers that the game is too easy.

[Blistrich]

SWTOR was made for whoever enjoys it and wants to keep playing it.

 

Did I win the internet?

[DarthDetonate]

 

 

 

(Yes I know swtor has traditional MMO combat and I hate it.)

 

The best MMOs I've played always made pvp the endgame where pve was simply there to fuel the endgame pvp in terms of gear, levels, crafting resources, and money.

 

The hook to those games though was that winning in the pvp of those games would then provide a boost to the pve side of those games. So winning in pvp would garner you more money from mobs, more crafting resources, cheaper store prices for armor etc.

 

 

From the description of what you've enjoyed in the past, at some point you may want to look into the Secret World when it releases Jun 19th if Swtor ultimately doesnt fulfill your gaming needs.

[Shrikestalker]

From the description of what you've enjoyed in the past, at some point you may want to look into the Secret World when it releases Jun 19th if Swtor ultimately doesnt fulfill your gaming needs.

Make sure you let him know that The Secret World is going to have a cash shop (confirmed) which may be a disqualifer.

 

Many players don't like being charged a subscription monthly price AND having a cash shop in game as well, which The Secret World is going to do.

[Gungan]

I hear this stuff and it's hard to believe; my group finds heroics very challenging and we aren't new at this gaming thing. It maybe easy for a few people but that doesn't mean it is for everyone...we all seen the disaster in Cataclysm with the "Dungeons are Hard" fiasco; millions of lost subs later Blizzard is scrambling to win people back.

 

We currently have a situation where so called pro gamers are crying that it's too easy while us mere mortals are wondering why we have to go through an area of 50 elites to complete a level 40 quest objective and "u r a bad" doesn't cut it when your casual base is lining up to leave after you have persuaded the developers that the game is too easy.

 

I don't see why you would find any heroic 2's challenging. I did all mine with very little effort. In fact they felt roughly the difficulty of normal quests in previous MMOs (which involve actual use of class mechanics and strategy instead of blasting mindlessly through like every normal quest in this game).

 

Heroic 4's certainly can't be soloed by all classes, and only stealthers can do it, because they're hax.

 

I don't consider myself hardcore either, and you don't have to be be a competent player.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Gungan

[mattgyver]

I think more fragmentation is inevitable, and not necessarily a bad thing.

 

The key to future success in my opinion will be providing content delivery against multiple smaller niches while leveraging social tools to stich together the various niches and segments into broader communities.

 

I envision a day when both of us can play content that is designed to excite and challenge us while meeting our unique wants and desires (which may be substantially different from one another), yet still be able to connect, share and socialize across our respective gaming environments.

 

I certainly don't want to lose the broader community and agree that a really good game has players of all types that interact and bring something that makes the overall experience better for all.

 

But who's to say that can't be something like multiple SW based 'games' that deliver content tailored to various groups that are all tied together through common social hubs?

 

/agree