3 Days as an Advanced Prototype on live: An in-depth Pyro BH’s look

[exphryl]

dude you are twisting things... you are obviously not cappable of seeing any other option in PvP other then kill kill kill. That is what prevents you from ever being a top level player. But hey i'm just going to ignore you because you lack the intelligence to continue to talk to.

 

What's the point of keeping that defending healer alive in Voidstar again?

[Hizoka]

What's the point of keeping that defending healer alive in Voidstar again?

 

 

when you just open a door you never want to kill the defenders... you want to be infront of them going to the door, not killing them so they get to the door first to defend... but then again i can understand how basic tactics elude you.

[Xsorus]

when you just open a door you never want to kill the defenders... you want to be infront of them going to the door, not killing them so they get to the door first to defend... but then again i can understand how basic tactics elude you.

 

And how does AP do that better then pyro exactly?

[LoKiei]

when you just open a door you never want to kill the defenders... you want to be infront of them going to the door, not killing them so they get to the door first to defend... but then again i can understand how basic tactics elude you.

 

That would be usefull if....the game had collision detection(which I think should be added) or AP had a snare.

[Agooz]

when you just open a door you never want to kill the defenders... you want to be infront of them going to the door, not killing them so they get to the door first to defend... but then again i can understand how basic tactics elude you.

 

No you absolutely DO NOT understand. You want to kill them, so they can spawn beyond the bridge, otherwise there is a good chance you wont unlock the bridge! And you are claiming to be a "top" player?? Good thing I am not one.

[Hizoka]

No you absolutely DO NOT understand. You want to kill them, so they can spawn beyond the bridge, otherwise there is a good chance you wont unlock the bridge! And you are claiming to be a "top" player?? Good thing I am not one.

 

atleast you know you are terrible.

[Mapex]

No you absolutely DO NOT understand. You want to kill them, so they can spawn beyond the bridge, otherwise there is a good chance you wont unlock the bridge! And you are claiming to be a "top" player?? Good thing I am not one.

 

It's not as absolute as Hizoka may be implying but the strategies are sound.

 

Ideally your team would distract the defending team on Voidstar after the first door opens up at one bridge while another squad unlocks the second bridge. That second squad then has free reign to unlock the second door while the defending team is still stuck behind on your team's spawn point.

 

The last thing you want to do is kill them all so that they are entrenched at the second door, but you also don't want too many of them at the first door preventing you from unlocking the bridge in the first place. It's a balancing act and your team needs to be coordinated enough to game the respawn system in your favor.

 

But this is a more general PvP strategy and not one that AP achieves better than other specs/classes. We don't lock down healers as well as people believe; 6 second Quell means nothing when it only locks out one spell (and healers have plenty of powerful abilities to cast).

Edited April 9, 2012 by Mapex

[TheOpf]

Okay, let's not get off the bash differing viewpoints of pvp. I can see the strategy for both of them. There are times when it's better to lock down and keep healers from helping, and others where it's best to just kill them. Let's agree that there are different view points.

 

 

I did some serious PVEing and PVP testing today for those who wish to hear more about the point of this thread. I found that I rolled Pyro, and had forgotten how to play overheating every few seconds. However, got that under control, and Pyro is a killing machine. However, this thread is about AP on live.

 

 

AP on live in PVE can be as strong as Pyro in extended fights simply due to heat management. I went AP for today. I went with the RS build, so that I could test the damage difference of RS build vs. Non-RS rotation. remember all the talents that build dps are the same in both.

 

Here is the build I went with - 8/31/2. I went through half the FP rolling the non-RS rotation and the othe rhalf rolling the RS rotation.

 

Rail Shot/Ion Pulse Rotation

Immolate, Retractable Blade, Rocket Punch, Rail shot (if proc), Flame burst x 5, PFT, Rocket Punch and So on.

 

No Rail Shot/Ion Pulse Rotation

Immolate, Rocket Punch, Flame burst x5, PFT

 

 

There are several things I learned.

 

When rolling the RS rotation, the Free RP's are absolutely essential to use on proc in order to best manage your heat.

 

1. You have 12 seconds from when PFT ends to have your next 5 stack ready. With non-RS rotation you have time for exactly one extra RP or an RB after the rotation before PFT is off CD. Immolate = 1.5, Rocket Punch = 3, FB x5 = 10.5, and you are back to PFT off CD. There is 1.5 sec of free time to add an extra attack in without postponing PFT.
   
2. The Rail shot rotation has more heat management issues than the non-rail shot rotation.
   
3. In 1.2 we will have free space for exactly 1 attack to add into the cycle.
   
4. There is almost no difference in the amount of damage done between the RS and the non-RS rotation.
   
5. I can do just as much total damage as AP as I can in Pyro, but with two to three times as much work. Pyro can burst someone down quicker though. Against a well coordinated team, without the ability to slow or prevent someone from running, I am pinned down, and destroyed.
   
6. Rail shot is the hardest hitting crit we have in pve when specced for all the bonuses. However it hits between 2500-3k depending on gear. Immolate crits for higher, and PFT is your biggest attacks. If you want to weave in RS you can, but there is no noticeable gain on either end.
   

 

I am not sure who else has done any testing, but in pvp I find rail shot only important when Kiting and low on health. Or when trying to get the last shot in on a fleeing republic healer. Our ability to kill a healer presently is absolutely brutal with a runner. However our ability to disrupt ranged and others is very strong.

 

There is absolutely no reason why a non-rail shot/ion pulse build cannot succeed in both pve and pvp environments to the same degree that Rail Shot builds will.

Edited April 9, 2012 by TheOpf

[TheOpf]

that is what it boils down to, the spec works just you have to be a better player to be good at it and so you rather be lazy then good.

 

Seriously, Hizoka, you make it very tough for anyone to take you seriously at all. Do you have this need to pick fights with everyone no matter what they say? Is it your intention to offend everyone to such a degree, that no one ever will take you seriously?

 

I created this thread with the understanding that keeping this type of non-sense out would better help the cause of the Advanced Prototype. Instead you get on here and rip and attack anyone who doesnt' agree 100 percent with you.

 

It has nothing to do with being lazy. Currently Pyro can do more with less than AP can. It takes 3 times the amount of work to do what I can do with Pyro. It's not lazy it's intelligent, why run 15 miles to work, when I can drive there in half the time, and use the remainder of the time to do something constructive.

 

Seriously, please calm the heck down, and start talking constructively. Your negative attitude does more to hurt the AP cause than help it. Your comments drip of elitism, but you give absolutely no records or accounts of your skills. My guess is you get on here looking to attack people because you are constantly getting ridiculed.

 

90 percent of the people on this thread have attempted to stay constructive and study and test the Advanced Prototype tree. Which is what you have been harping on for about 3 months now. So calm down, talk rationally, and take your anger management issues out on someone else.

 

I am not sure what else we can do. I have spent hours trying to understand your obsession with a difficult tree simply because I felt like it would do me a world of good to see things from your point of view. Not only did I do it, I went out of my way to apologize to you, and open a thread explaining my experiences, and work on some ground-breaking AP thoughts, talents, and conversations.

 

Are you upset because people are listening and discussing but no one is thanking you for your contributions? The reason is because you rip on people who help you, and when that happens no one wants to give credit to a mean spirited person. In fact, I have yet to find one constructive post you have made. You have made many posts that includes name-calling derisive comments about our skills, and absolutely rude and inappropriate behavior. You have refused to acknowledge any thoughts outside of your own as valid, and then claim that others are willfully ignorant for not acknowledging pve in their arguments. You are guilty of the same thing.

 

Please for goodness sake, the one time you delved into something constructive it was about Rail Shot, and how often it's used. That was the most instructive and constructive conversation you have ever posted, and it led to the testing of a non-RS build. When you are constructive you can be insightful. Please bring that side back, and stop this anger bashing of others.

[Doomsdaycomes]

I want to thank the Opening poster for making this thread, as currently on live I'm leveling a new Powertech mainly for the purpose of pvp. I am not the kind of person to min-max and usually play what seems fun despite it's over all effctiveness. That being said, I've been given great insight into the build I wanted to play. I want to say great work!

 

I don't want this to just seem a flattery post, so let me list the points I took notice of and found quite helpful. I wish there were more threads like this for all classes/specs.

 

1.) Myth... 60% armor penterate and a free crit on RS is awesome! When I was first looking at build it, I was quite happy to see that. Now I will reconsider due to the discussion here. I won't say RS has no use, but it definitely not as great as I thought.

(On a side note, does this statement make sense: If Charged Guantlets has a 25% chance to make Rs crit automaticly, and that is when you use RS, isn't that the same as having a 25% crit rate on that skill? It makes sense to me, but I could be missunderstanding)

 

2.) Advanced prototype flame thrower tactics. I know now I'll need to stun as many targets as I can, though I may need to work with my team for that. Mentioning HO as an offsenive ability, also super healpful. On other builds, especially on the other AC, merc, I don't even have flamethrower in a convient hotkey, because it never seems to hit anyone. I know now I will also need to work on superior positioning before popping the flamethrower as many have mentioned. (I especially like the mention of using it as a dual tank-healer heckler.)

 

3.) Heat management. I over-heat on other builds and AC's a decent amount, though I have decent heat management. About the best thing I've seen for the AP spec is it's heat management, and I may even reconsider some points spent for "free" things like RP. No plans yet.

 

On a final note, thank you all who posted specs here so I may analyze them. I even found one that was 3 points off from one of the specs I had fiddled around with, and they will help me greatly. All in all, thank you for all who contributed.

[Agooz]

Seriously, Hizoka, you make it very tough for anyone to take you seriously at all. Do you have this need to pick fights with everyone no matter what they say? Is it your intention to offend everyone to such a degree, that no one ever will take you seriously?

 

I created this thread with the understanding that keeping this type of non-sense out would better help the cause of the Advanced Prototype. Instead you get on here and rip and attack anyone who doesnt' agree 100 percent with you.

 

It has nothing to do with being lazy. Currently Pyro can do more with less than AP can. It takes 3 times the amount of work to do what I can do with Pyro. It's not lazy it's intelligent, why run 15 miles to work, when I can drive there in half the time, and use the remainder of the time to do something constructive.

 

Seriously, please calm the heck down, and start talking constructively. Your negative attitude does more to hurt the AP cause than help it. Your comments drip of elitism, but you give absolutely no records or accounts of your skills. My guess is you get on here looking to attack people because you are constantly getting ridiculed.

 

90 percent of the people on this thread have attempted to stay constructive and study and test the Advanced Prototype tree. Which is what you have been harping on for about 3 months now. So calm down, talk rationally, and take your anger management issues out on someone else.

 

I am not sure what else we can do. I have spent hours trying to understand your obsession with a difficult tree simply because I felt like it would do me a world of good to see things from your point of view. Not only did I do it, I went out of my way to apologize to you, and open a thread explaining my experiences, and work on some ground-breaking AP thoughts, talents, and conversations.

 

Are you upset because people are listening and discussing but no one is thanking you for your contributions? The reason is because you rip on people who help you, and when that happens no one wants to give credit to a mean spirited person. In fact, I have yet to find one constructive post you have made. You have made many posts that includes name-calling derisive comments about our skills, and absolutely rude and inappropriate behavior. You have refused to acknowledge any thoughts outside of your own as valid, and then claim that others are willfully ignorant for not acknowledging pve in their arguments. You are guilty of the same thing.

 

Please for goodness sake, the one time you delved into something constructive it was about Rail Shot, and how often it's used. That was the most instructive and constructive conversation you have ever posted, and it led to the testing of a non-RS build. When you are constructive you can be insightful. Please bring that side back, and stop this anger bashing of others.

 

Having been the main target of his attacks, I would like to summarize his arguments, which anyone can look at his history and confirm that I am not exaggerating:

 

- Those who play pyros and think it is better than AP are "baddies". (That's his word not mine)

- It takes no skill to play pyros

- Pyros rely only on the lucky streaks of procs.

- It take ALOT more skill to play AP. (Although until now I've never read anything from him to prove such a ridiculous claim)

- AP is on par with Marauders in terms of "skills" needed. (again never understood the logic, especially that the comparison makes his argument moot)

- People who criticize AP, are just "unskilled" players who dont know how to play.

That's it, nothing else to elaborate or show his "immense" experience with the tree. In fact, he has shown me over and over, that he knows less others about the mechanics of the class in general.

 

Well all his lashing at me, doesnt really bother me. But I am sure it may get to others. I never once took anything he said seriously. The reason I constantly reply to his posts, is because I know there are many new players wanting some "real" advice, and I just dont feel right at all, letting them read his nonsense and take it as facts.

 

I think he is the ONLY one who thinks that this is actually a debate on which tree is better. He thinks for some freaky reason that those who currently play Pyro just do not want to see AP improvements. Hec if we didnt care about playing the tree, we wouldnt care about criticizing it. It was "OUR" constant criticism, not HIS cheering of the AP, that led to the buffs the tree is getting. Had we never spoken against the flaws of AP, he'd still be one of a handful of people playing it post 1.2.

 

The facts about the 2 trees I think is VERY clear among all the experienced players. The best that his babbling has accomplished, is have someone like you actually spend some time playing with it, and at the end come up with the same conclusions you had when you first started. Maybe you dont have an exaggerated criticism of the tree, but it definitely didnt completely change your original thought. There are many others, myself included, who played the AP tree for some time, and that is why we are critical of its performance.

 

I will continue to reply to his posts. I will continue to criticize and provide feedback on the tree, until I feel that it is on par with pyro, in terms of "effectiveness". Which is another things he doesnt get. No one is saying that AP needs to have the same damage output as a Pyro, just that its role with its enhanced utilities, CCs, mobility, and now crowd damage be balanced with the single target burst and dps Pyro has.

[Agooz]

(On a side note, does this statement make sense: If Charged Guantlets has a 25% chance to make Rs crit automaticly, and that is when you use RS, isn't that the same as having a 25% crit rate on that skill? It makes sense to me, but I could be missunderstanding)

 

I will make it much easier for you to decide. This of course is in terms of the changes in 1.2, which will be very soon so there is no point in discussing the way it works now on Live.

Comes 1.2, not just RP and the initial RB hit have a chance to make the next RS crit, but also every tick on RB. So unless you are unlucky, you will pretty much have a crit RS all time. The argument is that typically you are investing 9points (between AP and ST) for that. What I and others feel, is that it's definitely NOT worth it to invest that many points into a crit RS once every 15seconds, when you can use FB (even if it is doing a little less damage) and have your PFT ready to be used sooner, not to mention putting these points into other talents that I feel are more useful.

 

The crit RS every 15sec, to me, is not worth more than 3points if I would consider it, and I am being generous.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Agooz

[Hizoka]

Seriously, Hizoka, you make it very tough for anyone to take you seriously at all. Do you have this need to pick fights with everyone no matter what they say? Is it your intention to offend everyone to such a degree, that no one ever will take you seriously?

 

I created this thread with the understanding that keeping this type of non-sense out would better help the cause of the Advanced Prototype. Instead you get on here and rip and attack anyone who doesnt' agree 100 percent with you.

 

It has nothing to do with being lazy. Currently Pyro can do more with less than AP can. It takes 3 times the amount of work to do what I can do with Pyro. It's not lazy it's intelligent, why run 15 miles to work, when I can drive there in half the time, and use the remainder of the time to do something constructive.

 

Seriously, please calm the heck down, and start talking constructively. Your negative attitude does more to hurt the AP cause than help it. Your comments drip of elitism, but you give absolutely no records or accounts of your skills. My guess is you get on here looking to attack people because you are constantly getting ridiculed.

 

90 percent of the people on this thread have attempted to stay constructive and study and test the Advanced Prototype tree. Which is what you have been harping on for about 3 months now. So calm down, talk rationally, and take your anger management issues out on someone else.

 

I am not sure what else we can do. I have spent hours trying to understand your obsession with a difficult tree simply because I felt like it would do me a world of good to see things from your point of view. Not only did I do it, I went out of my way to apologize to you, and open a thread explaining my experiences, and work on some ground-breaking AP thoughts, talents, and conversations.

 

Are you upset because people are listening and discussing but no one is thanking you for your contributions? The reason is because you rip on people who help you, and when that happens no one wants to give credit to a mean spirited person. In fact, I have yet to find one constructive post you have made. You have made many posts that includes name-calling derisive comments about our skills, and absolutely rude and inappropriate behavior. You have refused to acknowledge any thoughts outside of your own as valid, and then claim that others are willfully ignorant for not acknowledging pve in their arguments. You are guilty of the same thing.

 

Please for goodness sake, the one time you delved into something constructive it was about Rail Shot, and how often it's used. That was the most instructive and constructive conversation you have ever posted, and it led to the testing of a non-RS build. When you are constructive you can be insightful. Please bring that side back, and stop this anger bashing of others.

with that mentality no-one should ever be a marauder/sentinel, they take more work then any other class. People play AP because they like it. Some people like being BETTER players, if you match pyro with AP then you are a far superior player then the guy playing Pyro. Saying playing pyro is smart because it takes less work and less skill is being lazy. People flock to Pyro not because it is superior but because it is simple, you do not have to be skilled to perform well with it. However to be good with AP you have to be far better at the game to match Pyro, Gamers at this point in time ,post wow, are terrible as a whole. The spec is not weak like some people claim, it mearly is a spec that requires a better player. Saying its "smart" to play a easy mode facr roller spec is being lazy and promoting bad players, rather then saying you have to be a better player to perform well with AP.

 

 

 

You say Pyro is a better spec, your own admission when playing is you said they are equal, you just have to be better to be good with AP. That craps on everoyne argument that AP is trash, it mearly confirms that people are not good enough to play AP to the level you need to in order to match pyro. Its like saying Arsenal Mercs are the best DPS when they currently are not they are just beyond simple to play.

 

AP is 100% viable, just like Pyro. The caveat is Pyro takes a fraction of the effort, that does not make it a better spec it makes it an EASIER spec. So many people seem to not understand the difference in the word "better" and "easier"

Edited April 9, 2012 by Hizoka

[Agooz]

with that mentality no-one should ever be a marauder/sentinel, they take more work then any other class. People play AP because they like it. Some people like being BETTER players, if you match pyro with AP then you are a far superior player then the guy playing Pyro. Saying playing pyro is smart because it takes less work and less skill is being lazy. People flock to Pyro not because it is superior but because it is simple, you do not have to be skilled to perform well with it. However to be good with AP you have to be far better at the game to match Pyro, Gamers at this point in time ,post wow, are terrible as a whole. The spec is not weak like some people claim, it mearly is a spec that requires a better player. Saying its "smart" to play a easy mode facr roller spec is being lazy and promoting bad players, rather then saying you have to be a better player to perform well with AP.

 

 

You say its better to play a simple idiot proof spec, that is false, its just a spec better suited for lesser skilled players.

 

LOL did I do a good job a couple of posts above at summarizing his history of arguments or what?!

[Xsorus]

with that mentality no-one should ever be a marauder/sentinel, they take more work then any other class. People play AP because they like it. Some people like being BETTER players, if you match pyro with AP then you are a far superior player then the guy playing Pyro. Saying playing pyro is smart because it takes less work and less skill is being lazy. People flock to Pyro not because it is superior but because it is simple, you do not have to be skilled to perform well with it. However to be good with AP you have to be far better at the game to match Pyro, Gamers at this point in time ,post wow, are terrible as a whole. The spec is not weak like some people claim, it mearly is a spec that requires a better player. Saying its "smart" to play a easy mode facr roller spec is being lazy and promoting bad players, rather then saying you have to be a better player to perform well with AP.

 

 

 

You say Pyro is a better spec, your own admission when playing is you said they are equal, you just have to be better to be good with Pyro. That craps on everoyne argument that AP is trash, it mearly confirms that people are not good enough to play AP to the level you need to in order to match pyro. Its like saying Arsenal Mercs are the best DPS when they currently are not they are just beyond simple to play.

 

AP is 100% viable, just like Pyro. The caveat is Pyro takes a fraction of the effort, that does not make it a better spec it makes it an EASIER spec. So many people seem to not understand the difference in the word "better" and "easier"

 

A. Marauders and Sents aren't hard to play, I have one, the only things difficult about a Marauder is deciding which Defensive Cooldown you're going to pop...

 

B. AP isn't difficult to play either, No more difficult then pyro, Both are pretty much straight forward on rotations and or attacking people. People flock to Pyro over AP though because the stupid amount of Burst Pyro does... I like AP, it's interesting spec if ya want to play a Defensive DPS, It however doesn't approach the burst of Pyro when ya have TD/Railshot/Flameburst all going off at once. I simply kill faster and do far more damage when playing Pyro then I do AP. I'm beefier and have better movement options with AP, but Damage is simply better on Pyro.

 

C. In closing, quit trying to think you're a better play for playing AP, you're not a better player, you're just playing a worse spec then Pyro.

 

This has nothing to do with 1.2 either, I'm sure 1.2 AP is going to be far better then it currently is, however it still has the middle portion of the tree being absolutely bloody useless (Railshot crit from AP simply isn't worth it before or after the patch)

[TheOpf]

LOL did I do a good job a couple of posts above at summarizing his history of arguments or what?!

 

I would say yes. The logic of his arguments is lost on me. Why use a computer when it takes twice as long to hand write a letter? Because it takes more skill to write a letter.

 

I am still trying to figure out how it makes sense to do twice the amount of work to do the same amount of damage I can do with half the amount of effort. In a PVE environment, where things are static, than an AP can match the output in an extended fight that a Pyro can put out. As long as the AP has the time to get out a few PFT's they can stay within 5 percent or match a perfectly played Pyro.

 

Hizoka, Most of the disagreements about AP have to do with a pvp environment which at least half of us play. Without the ability to dual spec, we have to pick one spec and live with it.

 

BTW, I did not say I could match my output in pyro. I said with 3 times the amount of work I can match the total damage in pyro. When I put the same amount of work in pyro, I way way out damage, kill, and swing a pvp battle. It takes a lot more luck on live to putout the same amount of damage and control that a Pyro currently can. PVP is about burst damge. It's about control and burst, which unfortunately AP on live is currently lacking. I can match the damage some of the time. I cannot match the kills, and the amount of times I send a guy running or render a healer ineffective.

 

The skill level to get high damage on Pyro is not difficult. It does take a lot of skill to manage the heat issues while pumping out the damage. Knowing when to turn off and when to turn on the burst is key. It takes just as much skill just not as much effort as maximizing your output in AP.

 

I never said there was anything wrong with AP. I simply stated my opinion based on the playing of the class. I enjoy AP. I don't enjoy some of the ridiculous aspects of the tree, the RS abilities in the class, and the lack of live talents.

 

Remember, the amount of hard work and effort something takes does not equal skill. Otherwise ditch digging would be the most skilled job in the world.

[TheOpf]

A. Marauders and Sents aren't hard to play, I have one, the only things difficult about a Marauder is deciding which Defensive Cooldown you're going to pop...

 

Correct, I have never understood this logic. I think she means an Anni specced Marauder, and I have heard they are the toughest to play well. However, no one is saying a Rage or Carnage Marauder is difficult or takes more skill to play well.

 

B. AP isn't difficult to play either, No more difficult then pyro, Both are pretty much straight forward on rotations and or attacking people. People flock to Pyro over AP though because the stupid amount of Burst Pyro does... I like AP, it's interesting spec if ya want to play a Defensive DPS, It however doesn't approach the burst of Pyro when ya have TD/Railshot/Flameburst all going off at once. I simply kill faster and do far more damage when playing Pyro then I do AP. I'm beefier and have better movement options with AP, but Damage is simply better on Pyro.

 

This will change in 1.2 when we can actually use PFT in WZ's. In PVE static environments, PFT/Immo/RP/FB can match the burst of RP/RS/FB/TD. It currently can't match the triple proc RS that can happen.

 

C. In closing, quit trying to think you're a better play for playing AP, you're not a better player, you're just playing a worse spec then Pyro.

 

This has nothing to do with 1.2 either, I'm sure 1.2 AP is going to be far better then it currently is, however it still has the middle portion of the tree being absolutely bloody useless (Railshot crit from AP simply isn't worth it before or after the patch)

 

I agree with this assessment. I know that with Rakata and Columni gear you get an additional 8 percent damage to Rail Shot, but for pvp and pve reasons, pushing off PFT seems like a huge loss of damage. Every test I have done shows that by adding RS procs pushes PFT farther and farther down the chain until you are two rotations behind 3-5 minutes into a fight.

 

Even sithwarrior.com's dps compedium for BH's is full of contradictions over this tree. They state that you should use FT every cooldown regardless of PFT stacks, and to sometimes push it off until you have used RS and RP. Then later saying it's a significant dps loss to hold the stack. I can't figure out who wrote it, but it's full of enough misinformation that it confused me so badly about AP that I went to Pyro initially because of that confusion.

 

1.2 does nothing for pve, except I think they want to stop us from dumping Rail Shot from the tree so they put RB's dot in as a bonus for the crit. Personally I will keep it for those times when I get pushed or have to move and attack for pve only. In pvp, I find it a complete waste to spec into serrated blades and charged gauntlets.

[dardack]

No you absolutely DO NOT understand. You want to kill them, so they can spawn beyond the bridge, otherwise there is a good chance you wont unlock the bridge! And you are claiming to be a "top" player?? Good thing I am not one.

 

Um maybe you don't run with any sorcs/sins, but we purposelly don't kill the enemy team with 5 seconds left on bomb. We stun/slow em and let our sin/sorc speed over gap.

 

Yes i Know this is moot in 1.2 but i digress.

[QiBao]

Seriously, Hizoka, you make it very tough for anyone to take you seriously at all. Do you have this need to pick fights with everyone no matter what they say? Is it your intention to offend everyone to such a degree, that no one ever will take you seriously?

 

I created this thread with the understanding that keeping this type of non-sense out would better help the cause of the Advanced Prototype. Instead you get on here and rip and attack anyone who doesnt' agree 100 percent with you.

 

It has nothing to do with being lazy. Currently Pyro can do more with less than AP can. It takes 3 times the amount of work to do what I can do with Pyro. It's not lazy it's intelligent, why run 15 miles to work, when I can drive there in half the time, and use the remainder of the time to do something constructive.

 

Seriously, please calm the heck down, and start talking constructively. Your negative attitude does more to hurt the AP cause than help it. Your comments drip of elitism, but you give absolutely no records or accounts of your skills. My guess is you get on here looking to attack people because you are constantly getting ridiculed.

 

90 percent of the people on this thread have attempted to stay constructive and study and test the Advanced Prototype tree. Which is what you have been harping on for about 3 months now. So calm down, talk rationally, and take your anger management issues out on someone else.

 

I am not sure what else we can do. I have spent hours trying to understand your obsession with a difficult tree simply because I felt like it would do me a world of good to see things from your point of view. Not only did I do it, I went out of my way to apologize to you, and open a thread explaining my experiences, and work on some ground-breaking AP thoughts, talents, and conversations.

 

Are you upset because people are listening and discussing but no one is thanking you for your contributions? The reason is because you rip on people who help you, and when that happens no one wants to give credit to a mean spirited person. In fact, I have yet to find one constructive post you have made. You have made many posts that includes name-calling derisive comments about our skills, and absolutely rude and inappropriate behavior. You have refused to acknowledge any thoughts outside of your own as valid, and then claim that others are willfully ignorant for not acknowledging pve in their arguments. You are guilty of the same thing.

 

Please for goodness sake, the one time you delved into something constructive it was about Rail Shot, and how often it's used. That was the most instructive and constructive conversation you have ever posted, and it led to the testing of a non-RS build. When you are constructive you can be insightful. Please bring that side back, and stop this anger bashing of others.

 

100% agree with this.

 

Nice thread, OP, enjoyed reading it. Hopefully the 1.2 AP changes will work out well in pvp.

[Gomezie]

Its certainly been an eye opener OP... restored some faith in AP for me, and its what lured me to BH in the first place

 

Thanks for the work you have put in

[TheOpf]

Its certainly been an eye opener OP... restored some faith in AP for me, and its what lured me to BH in the first place

 

Thanks for the work you have put in

 

I appreciate that, I was very surprised as to how much damage AP can pump out if you focus on getting PFT out as soon as possible. I am eagerly awaiting Mabex posting his experiences on the PTS.

 

I am fairly positive that the non-RS build will be extremely viable in pvp environments, and am excited by the amount of interest that the build has brought into it. If I was a more marketing intense guy, I would have come up with a sweet name for it. Maybe copyrighted it and promoted it as my build.

 

I do know that this build was a community idea, brought on by several pvp/pve runners who wanted to see the AP tree be used more successful. I mean come on FLAMETHROWER AND PREDATOR STABBING. Anyways, I am glad the thread has helped you think about the tree. Hopefully, we can keep this thread thinking and moving forward.

[mjohnsonfhk]

"I would say yes. The logic of his arguments is lost on me. Why use a computer when it takes twice as long to hand write a letter? Because it takes more skill to write a letter."

 

This made me LOL. Figured id quote such a gem as it may get lost in all this nonsense

[Terrorshard]

I still think the spec is average at best. The spec is on cool down way to often and the opportunities to use flamethrower effectively are way too few and far between. I went several war zones where I would only use it once or twice, and sometimes never.

 

Even after pyro gets gutted it will still be better I believe.

 

Give me a lower cool down on Fire Pulse, increaed damage on gut, and cool down refreshing on stock strike instead of making it free. Then sign me up.

[Zaracen]

I started reading the first few pages when you first put this up and then one day so many posts were made that I became lost a bit. I am glad someone decided to try out AP to the full extent and I have always wanted to play it but the skills in the tree usually aren't worth it. I appreciate your work on this project and hope together as a PT community, we can make this tree viable as an option all across the board. I leveled as a shield tech, PvE (not as much now), and PvP as shield tech. I like protecting people, having the gap closer, and the pull. Perhaps with 1.2 and later, AP will have abilities that make more sense and I will respec to that once I convert my gear.

[TheOpf]

I still think the spec is average at best. The spec is on cool down way to often and the opportunities to use flamethrower effectively are way too few and far between. I went several war zones where I would only use it once or twice, and sometimes never.

 

Even after pyro gets gutted it will still be better I believe.

 

Give me a lower cool down on Fire Pulse, increaed damage on gut, and cool down refreshing on stock strike instead of making it free. Then sign me up.

 

In 1.2 you will be able to use PFT more often because it will be un-interruptible and have a 70 percent slow. Which will mean no more popping it and watching someone run from you. It's usage will go way up.

 

I would prefer to have Charged Gauntlets proc Immolate/Fire Pulse Crits. The Free RP is nice, but I see your point.