Let´s be honest. SWTOR is pretty solid MMO arround.

[Holden_Dissent]

Never get tired of beating that drum do you.

 

 

All that rerolling does is contribute to the problem. It is not a solution. Stop attempting to pass it off as such.

 

He's right though.

[JudgedCover]

As it has been said by many, there is nothing that feels "Massive" or even "Multiplayer" about this title except for the monthly fee.

 

This game feels more like a single player game, however, we have just got to experience a great BW single player experience in Mass Effect 3 and ME 3 is superior in it's mechanics to SWTOR in every aspect.

 

Somehow BW has managed to incorporate all the aspects of an MMO that people find boring and stale while excluding even the most basic elements that have advanced within the genre the past 10 years.

 

It seems the formula used was: Single Player Experience + Old MMO mechanics = Profit!

 

A formula that doesn't seem to be working.

 

Their inexperience in a MMO seems to shine through every detail in this game, and the few people they put on the team from now defunct MMO's did not seem to have learned anything from their past failures as they have only carried over into this IP.

 

Their focus now is on a system that will enhance an single-player alt. creating system, however, if the journey is stale and the mechanics repetitive how will Legacy help???

 

Crafting is a joke. Community is a joke. PvP is a joke. There are no "Dungeon" experiences, (Heroics with a few more Gold mobs don't make a dungeon).

 

I enjoyed the story and the single player elements of the game, but as I have said before there are a myriad of better SP experiences out there (BW makes some of the best of them) that don't cost a monthly fee. I need a community experience to fulfill my MMO desire and this game fails miserably at such.

[Gorrdan]

lol Go ahead and a try and find a heroic quest group or fp group. Switching servers is out of the question.

 

And lack of finding groups for heroics has what relevance with what i said? heroic content is there but if people skip it doesn't mean it is a single player game unless you want devs to force people into grouping?

Edited April 5, 2012 by Gorrdan

[Rodane]

The problem is people have unrealistic expectations and thought SWTOR There have the same amount of content as WoW.

 

Of course WoW has had since 2004 to build content. All new MMOS suffer from lack of content and in the beginning there is always complaints about hitting max level and having nothing to do. Esp from those who rush to get there. I heard the exact same "I have nothing to do" when I first played WoW on release.

 

SWTOR is not perfect, but it is a good game and Bioware will learn from their mistakes and improve on the game.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Rodane

[Galbatorrix]

Never get tired of beating that drum do you.

 

 

All that rerolling does is contribute to the problem. It is not a solution. Stop attempting to pass it off as such.

 

 

Do you play this game to have a good time? If so, rerolling on a heavy server will do just that. What do you care more about? Being able to complain about playing on a dead server on the forums or actually getting your moneys worth and having a good time?

 

 

I agree, server transfers are definitely needed in this game. I have about 8 characters that I wish I could transfer off dead servers, but, since I'm still enjoying the game a lot, I rerolled 8 different ACs on heavy servers. This way, once transfers are available, I'll transfer the other 8 and have one of each AC on my two main heavy servers.

 

It IS a good solution for anyone that enjoys the game and wants to get the most out of it. Or, you know... you could keep playing on a dead server and constantly complain about it on the forums. Your time is your own, I suppose.

[JudgedCover]

The problem is people have unrealistic expectations and thought SWTOR would have the same amount of content as WoW.

 

Of course WoW has had since 2004 to build content. All new MMOS suffer from lack of content and in the beginning there is always complaints about hitting max level and having nothing to do. Esp from those who rush to get there.

 

SWTOR is not perfect, but it is a good game and Bioware will learn their mistakes and improve on the game.

 

While BW may in fact improve the game, the MMO audience will not be around patiently awaiting to play it.

 

WoW became WoW because it took the genre where it was at that time and made it better than what had come before and what was coming at the time. It advanced, added and even re-invented itself along the way.

 

SWTOR came out and didn't really do anything better. Sure the flesh of the game is more polished but the same old MMO bones are underneath. Which means you have a really pretty girl who can't dance for very long before becoming tired.

[Galbatorrix]

While BW may in fact improve the game, the MMO audience will not be around patiently awaiting to play it.

 

WoW became WoW because it took the genre where it was at that time and made it better than what had come before and what was coming at the time. It advanced, added and even re-invented itself along the way.

 

SWTOR came out and didn't really do anything better. Sure the flesh of the game is more polished but the same old MMO bones are underneath. Which means you have a really pretty girl who can't dance for very long before becoming tired.

 

 

 

SWTOR has everything any other MMO on the market has PLUS it has a great single player experience to boot. Something those games completely lack. The only thing those games have that makes grouping easier is the "finder" tools and Bioware already stated that they're planning to implement such a tool for group content.

 

 

Honestly... what else is this game missing? If you say "people", or "I can't find a group", then again, try playing on a heavy server. Those problems disappear.

[Shadollan]

Gelöscht Edited June 5, 2012 by Shadollan

[Gorrdan]

SWTOR is a good single player game and a solid MMO!

It's more RPG than MMO!

And I was expecting, and I also love it!

 

GW2 is not that what you people dreaming

Ok, the dynamic world is super ... But that's all ..

SWTOR will be even more dynamic .. You will see!

 

regards

 

Hard to say what GW2 will turn out to be without playing it but thanks for telling us to 'simmer down' very sweet of you. And SWTOR will be even more dynamic and i hope that it will but it is not happening for a very very long time so GW2 is still the best option for those who want more dynamic MMO with 3 side skill based PVP.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Gorrdan

[Frostvein]

It IS a good solution for anyone that enjoys the game and wants to get the most out of it.

 

 

Its really not. You fail to understand that all that rerolling does is kill the population you are leaving, thus making the problem worse. Not everyone has the time to reroll a character. I can see how someone with 16 different toons wouldn't understand this, but it doesn't make this fact any less true.

 

While the person who rerolls creates a better experience for themselves, they create a worse experience for everyone else on their server who couldn't or wouldn't leave. It just snowballs the problem. If I go to Fatman, It doesn't matter there in the slightest. The population there is already amazing and my presence there isn't making a difference like it would on my old server where they are having trouble filling BG's.

 

Telling people to reroll is like trying to put a bandaid on a gunshot wound. Its not really fixing anything.

[flyersfan]

We would have been better served if they simply hadn't yanked us around under the belief we were getting an MMO when in reality we were getting a single player blend of ME and Kotor.

 

That's exactly what I was expecting and exactly what I wanted.

[Galbatorrix]

Its really not. You fail to understand that all that rerolling does is kill the population you are leaving, thus making the problem worse. Not everyone has the time to reroll a character. I can see how someone with 16 different toons wouldn't understand this, but it doesn't make this fact any less true.

 

While the person who rerolls creates a better experience for themselves, they create a worse experience for everyone else on their server who couldn't or wouldn't leave. It just snowballs the problem. If I go to Fatman, It doesn't matter there in the slightest. The population there is already amazing and my presence there isn't making a difference like it would on my old server where they are having trouble filling BG's.

 

Telling people to reroll is like trying to put a bandaid on a gunshot wound. Its not really fixing anything.

 

 

 

Your logic doesn't make any sense at all. First off, if you have time to play your main, then you have time to play an alt. You simply reallocating your play time. Also, since you aren't paying the sub for the other people on your dead server, you really shouldn't feel responsible for their poor choice to stay. If you're in a guild, try to get everyone to relocate to the same heavy pop server. If they refuse to go, it's their own fault they're not having a good time during their play sessions.

 

 

Also, with your logic, even a server transfer wouldn't help you. The only thing that would is a server merger and I'm pretty sure that would be a last resort for Bioware. So again, bite the bullet and reroll or continue to struggle trying to find groups. The choice is obviously yours. But don't pretend that there's no alternatives.

 

 

I didn't want to reroll either, but I did anyway and the game instantly became 10 times more fun and engaging.

[Shadollan]

Gelöscht Edited June 5, 2012 by Shadollan

[Gorrdan]

I'm always very sweet

This is the house of BioWare ...

Who can do better than BioWare?

We're talking about BioWare ... any questions?

 

regards

 

Yes we are talking about Bioware whose MMO is inspired heavily by WOW so why can't we talk about GW2 and hope that Bioware learns some things from that one too? however in the end we are still talking about SWTOR.

 

As far as doing better than Bioware since it is a matter of opinion a lot of companies can do better than Bioware. For example Blizzard, CCP, Anet.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Gorrdan

[Avenox]

Yes we are talking about Bioware whose MMO is inspired heavily by WOW so why can't we talk about GW2 and hope that Bioware learns some things from that one too? however in the end we are still talking about SWTOR.

 

As far as doing better than Bioware since it is a matter of opinion a lot of companies can do better than Bioware. For example Blizzard, CCP, Anet.

 

There is no BW

The is only EA

 

EA=BS as I see it.

 

Gaming is dead!

[Frostvein]

Your logic doesn't make any sense at all. First off, if you have time to play your main, then you have time to play an alt. You simply reallocating your play time.

 

So If I have limited time, I have to make a decision between stalling any progression on my main and either playing a character I don't particularly care for on another server, or re-leveling my same class?

 

Neither one of those things seems like a particularly attractive option.

 

"So quit!" you say. That's probably not what Bioware wants nor is that good for the game.

 

Also, since you aren't paying the sub for the other people on your dead server, you really shouldn't feel responsible for their poor choice to stay. If you're in a guild, try to get everyone to relocate to the same heavy pop server. If they refuse to go, it's their own fault they're not having a good time during their play sessions.

 

I (unlike other people) realize that I am not the only person playing this game, and that what is good for me might not be good for everyone else.

 

Also, with your logic, even a server transfer wouldn't help you. The only thing that would is a server merger and I'm pretty sure that would be a last resort for Bioware. So again, bite the bullet and reroll or continue to struggle trying to find groups. The choice is obviously yours. But don't pretend that there's no alternatives. I didn't want to reroll either, but I did anyway and the game instantly became 10 times more fun and engaging.

 

I never said that alternatives didn't exist. I said that pretending like the alternative is an actual solution that fixes the problem for everyone is wrong and short-sighted.

[Krionic]

I am trying to review SWTOR as objective as possible. I rerolled to Fatman recently so I could play SWTOR as it´s meant to be played. And my final impression is SWTOR is pretty solid as both, game and MMO.

 

First of all, I´d like to notice we just didn´t have many SFI MMOs arround to compare.

 

These are positive features of SWTOR I compiled through my 300 hours gameplay.

 

1. SW lore is cool. This is it. It´s very difficult to make SW lore unintresting, and this is not a case. Bioware nailed quite well the overall look and feel of Star Wars universe. Environments and backgrounds are fantastic, really of the best looking arround. After Witcher 2, SWTOR environemnts are the best ones.

 

Its ok.

 

2. Voiceovers really make the difference.

 

Cool the first time through. Now I mash the spacebar and get annoyed at people that do not mash the spacebar

 

3. The dialog options are so good for a MMO. Really. Morality choices are of the best I played before. You can be very evil, neutral or good. Only a few games arround offer this kind of choice, and none of them are MMOs. You may say those choices didn´t matter but they mattered to me, and to many others. Those choices defined my character and myself. I choosed the dark path and I still have remorse for taking some heartsplitting decisions. For the first time, I hadn´t just level up my character but I defined him with my choices too. WoW doesn´t offer this.

 

None of which affects gameplay. those are cool things for a single player game(like mass effect), but for a mmo it is just filler.

 

4. SWTOR offer more chalenege. Heroics and Flashpoints are more difficult that the similar areas from WoW. You must group to complete them and this feature push people together. It´s good thing.

pretty standard mmo fare. nothing great. and super easy i might add

 

5. SWTOR is the most grouping-friendly games I played. People are grouping in this game quite easily. I tried WoW sometime before, and got to level 30, but mostly I played solo. I tried to group with other people, but they plainly ingnored me. During my playthrough in WoW, I couldn´t group not even once, and I was in guild with 50 people.

In SWTOR is quite opposite. If you want to do Heroics, you must group with somebody. The groups usually are of 4. It´s pretty easy to group. I just throw a message to General Chat "Anyone for that heroic" and "LF1 more for <heroic>", and people usually always repond. In WOW, I actually never saw something similar to Heroics.

On Fatman, you can actually find a body even for a single player missions.

 

I'm a little bewildered by this one. I think swtor is not group friendly at all. 99% of the content is for solo play... or more accurately it is easily completed solo. and most groups are 5 mins to complete a daily or 2+/4+. LFG tools are lacking and none of the group content 1-49 is going to give you an advantage

 

6. SWTOR is a quite polished game. Seriously, in comparison to other MMO launches and many single player games SWTOR is shiny polished. I haven´t confronted any bug yet, only get stuck sometimes when jump from the cliffs which is quickly resolved with /stuck command. But I recognize that some bugs exist, I read in forums that some people have bugs. And some features present in WoW are misssing which will be solved with the upcomming patch.

starting to feel like i'm getting trolled.

 

7. Graphical presentation of SWTOR is stunning. As I already said environments are of the best. Some face animations and acting are even superior than in ME3. Right now, SWTOR is one the best looking MMOs arround. Well... if you have a powerful enough PC.

GW2 may eclipse SWTOR, but not so much. GW2 will not have voiceovers and cutscenes for every in-game quest.

 

subjective. I don't think graphics are bad in swtor but they don't make me pee my pants either.

8. SWTOR community is great and friendly. Go on Fatman you will see. The main public of SWTOR is the people who seek for pieceful cooperative experience. There is a guild boom right now, every one tries to create one. SWTOR is a perfect game for people who mostly played single player games and are affraid of MMO. There is no elitist jerks arround, at least by now.

so on fatman you have a populated server? cool. vast majority of the other servers are dead. Some being so dead I'd bet there are a handful of servers that have single digit pops on fleet right now. I'd say the community in swtor is and always was lacking.

9. With the upcomming path, we´ll get more PvsP content.

 

Well. Let´s analize now about the main complaints about SWTOR:

 

1. No end content for 50s.

 

Well... the solution here is just...waiting untill a new big expansion is released. Many 50s will unsubscribe for sure, but new players will come eventually too. SWTOR is one of the most friendly communities arroud, and very perfect for the people who want to try theirselves in a new genre. I was one of them.

 

Certainly 1.7 million population will drop to, let´s say, 1 million eventually. But still 1 million is good number for a starter MMO. Actually this reflects the real worth of SWTOR, not the hyped one. And it´s more than enough to keep the game alive and Bioware happy. And this number, 1 million, will be steady with all ebbs and flows of subscriptions untill a new new big full expansion comes out. After that, the community may be expanded to a few more servers and again stay static.

 

I am not planning to play SWTOR for years either. Eventually I will stop, but my place will be taken by someone else. It´s a natural thing. When a new real expansion comes one I will certainly resub.

 

2. World is not actually open.

 

Well. It´s not like WoW for sure. But areas are very big and extensive and every planet takes me some 20-30 hours to complete. The only difference is there is no gate to pass to another realm, But this is SW, you take a ship and travel to another planet. If you actually want SWTOR world be like WoW then the whole action must take place on one planet which is not ver appealing and plausible and characteristic for SW universe.

 

3. I will not discuss the problem with pop to avoid the closing of my thread. Just rerolled. Try a new alt. Or just wait for a migration tool. No other solution is available.

Rerolling is a natural reaction of SWTOR community for the self preservation. The most of SWTOR community in US is concentrated now on Fatman.

 

Please don´t discuss this topic in my thread to avoid the merge with other threads.

 

Ok...Now lets check briefly the main competitors of SWTOR.

 

I will put them in groups-

 

1. WoW. Terra. GW2

 

Here comes the biggest flaw of this trio. They are not ScFI. This is it. SWTOR already reserved for itself a big chunk of players. I know a lot of people who scpecifically need light sabers, blasters and and tech stuff, they will not come back to sword, shield and magic again.

 

WoW.

 

The people who still playing it will keep playing it. No big loss. The people who stopped playing it will not come back because of Pandas. WoW population will drop eventually to some 7-8 milllions. But WoW will keep the biggest population arround.

 

It will not affect SWTOR population at all. If you like Star Wars, you will like Star Wars. No pandas will change that. Besides new WoW expansion is all about the same. The same everything. Totally not ground breaking or innovative.

 

Terra.

 

Its like WoW but with Pokemons. Yes, and a better combat. The rest is the same: NPCs with excalamation sings floating overhead, text boxes for the missions, no voiceovers.

 

If you like Korean MMOs with pokemons go and try it, but people who are into Star Wars and ScFi will not follow you.

 

GW2.

 

Well it´s the strongest competitor. But is it really so ground breaking ? I watch so many video and read so many previews about it.

 

The main atraction is World vs World vs World. Yep. Cool stuff.

The graphical presntation is awesome.

The combat is new and fresh.

 

Its flaws.

 

It keeps being like WoW. Yes...more mature...better combat...choices affect the world but...NPCs have excalamation sings floating overhead, text boxes for the missions, no voiceovers, killing stuff by hundreds.

 

And it´s not SCFI.

 

Equally, this one is the best looking among all competitor and I will certainly try it.

 

2. Secret World.

 

A very shady horse. It may be a great success or another Age of Connan.

 

Its flaws.

 

It has standard WoW-like mechanics. No groundbeaking there.

Graphically it didn´t impress me.

Secret World lore must compete against STAR WARS. Every new lore has a huge risk to suck. This is a fact. Check the Kindoms of Amalur.

 

Well. This is it. This thread is subjected to further updates.

 

 

**** this was a wall of text. anyway, thanks for your opinion. orignially planned to comment point by point but my ADD is kicking in. The rest of your post from what i can tell was conjecture and premonitions about the success or failure of other/future mmo's. And I just don't see how the failure or lack of fun in another mmo means that swtor is good.

[Shadollan]

Gelöscht Edited June 5, 2012 by Shadollan

[Krionic]

Your logic doesn't make any sense at all. First off, if you have time to play your main, then you have time to play an alt. You simply reallocating your play time. Also, since you aren't paying the sub for the other people on your dead server, you really shouldn't feel responsible for their poor choice to stay. If you're in a guild, try to get everyone to relocate to the same heavy pop server. If they refuse to go, it's their own fault they're not having a good time during their play sessions.

 

 

Also, with your logic, even a server transfer wouldn't help you. The only thing that would is a server merger and I'm pretty sure that would be a last resort for Bioware. So again, bite the bullet and reroll or continue to struggle trying to find groups. The choice is obviously yours. But don't pretend that there's no alternatives.

 

 

I didn't want to reroll either, but I did anyway and the game instantly became 10 times more fun and engaging.

 

I think it is your logic that is flawed.

 

A) I don't want to reroll my character. it is my 15 bucks a month. and it was my 15 bucks a month I payed to develop my character. Why should i have to start over from zero and level up a new character on another server that maintained its health.

 

B) Especially if my only alternative is FATMAN which is a noob gank fest. So not only do I have to reroll my character but I now have to subject myself to a server full of twits with low self esteem that get enjoyment out of teabagging lowbies in a pve environment?

 

No thanks. By the way, it isn't my fault or anyone elses fault that doesn't WANT to reroll on a server that has more than 12 people in fleet. It is bioware's fault for 1) opening too many servers and artificially forcing those players to play on lower population servers with login queues. 2) not allowing for people to transfer servers. Sorry, but I'm not going to replay the same content over the course of the next couple/few months (paying 45 bucks too) just to get to the same point my character is at now. Why on Earth would I or anyone else do that when they can just play another game. it would be like watching 99% of a bad movie and then watching the whole thing over again just to read the credits.

[Ghost_Spectre]

I am trying to review SWTOR as objective as possible. I rerolled to Fatman recently so I could play SWTOR as it´s meant to be played. And my final impression is SWTOR is pretty solid as both, game and MMO.

 

I am a four and half year veteran player of CoH/CoV. CoH is or was my very first MMO game. I originally bought the game when it originally released on December 20. It took me a while to get where I could load it up and play. I am glad that I did. I absolutely love playing that game. The graphics, stories, and environment, are simply stunning. That is, or should I say was, until I logged into SW: TOR.

 

SW graphics are in a class above CoH. The universe as a whole is amazingly wonderful. Comparing it to CoH is not fair as they are two completely different settings and genre. Every world I have landed on has astounded me. I am on Taris with my Sage. I have just stood there looking around and shook my head. Such clarity that you can almost believe it is a real view.

 

The progressive stories for each class are outstanding. Not boring, very entertaining, only to cause your heart rate to go up as you engage in whatever opponent you face. I spent the last 3 weeks playing SW: TOR exclusively and have not logged into CoH maybe three times and did not play long. I subscribe to both games, as I have found two that fulfill my desire to RP or play in, Sci-Fi and Super Heroes. I will soon find my balance between both and enjoy my time playing both.

[Gungan]

I'm always very sweet

This is the house of BioWare ...

Who can do better than BioWare?

We're talking about BioWare ... any questions?

 

regards

 

Based on BioWare's last few efforts, I wouldn't use their name as a pinnacle of quality like I would have a few years ago.

 

On a seperate note. Star Wars isn't Sci-Fi. It's Sci-Fa (Science-Fantasy). The key difference is that in Sci-Fi, you gotta make an effort to explain in real world terms how something works. In Sci-Fa, it doesn't matter because the answer is usually the Force. Remember that time they tried to explain what made people force sensitive? Yeah... that worked well.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Gungan

[Shadollan]

Gelöscht Edited June 5, 2012 by Shadollan

[SkuzBukit]

The "Story" as 4th pillar was a bold move & it mostly works extremely well in an MMO, however the failing of SWTOR was neglecting the "game" it's rudimentary, polished but very basic, like having a polished lump of coal instead of a glittering multi-faced diamond.

 

Had the developers only "voiced" the class-quests & spent the money they (in my opinion) wasted on voicing ALL of the quests, they'd have had the money & time to not only get EV done properly prior to launch but have had Karagga done in full & a whole chunk of what is in 1.2 done for launch too.

 

Pretty solid as an MMO, perhaps, but it is also pretty damn limited & at the endgame very very thin.

Edited April 5, 2012 by SkuzBukit

[Gungan]

 

The progressive stories for each class are outstanding. Not boring, very entertaining, only to cause your heart rate to go up as you engage in whatever opponent you face. I spent the last 3 weeks playing SW: TOR exclusively and have not logged into CoH maybe three times and did not play long. I subscribe to both games, as I have found two that fulfill my desire to RP or play in, Sci-Fi and Super Heroes. I will soon find my balance between both and enjoy my time playing both.

 

I can't even be bothered playing my only alt when class story consists of 5 unique class quests per planet, and 95% repeats the whole other time.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Gungan

[Krionic]

I am a four and half year veteran player of CoH/CoV. CoH is or was my very first MMO game. SW graphics are in a class above CoH. The universe as a whole is amazingly wonderful. Comparing it to CoH is not fair as they are two completely different settings and genre. Every world I have landed on has astounded me. I am on Taris with my Sage. I have just stood there looking around and shook my head. Such clarity that you can almost believe it is a real view.

 

Yeah.... maybe you cant compare the two games graphically either... considering CoH is more than 7 years old. Man that game was awesome though. havn't played it in years. Thinking about that game and how old it is, but at the same time it was much more cutting edge than SWTOR is with its cut scenes gamble. I mean... flying! cant even swim in SWTOR lol. customization. epic battles. fun stuff. game companies should just talk to me when they want to develop a game. I'll guide them in the right direction... free even.

 

Lol. Uh... yah... yer topic.. Um. carry on.