Valor<50 -- Why PvP Prior to 1.2?

[FoxNemhauser]

Why do you even pvp then? If the sole purpose of you pvping is to get gear and have a cool title, what are you working for? You will eventually get full top ranked gear and then what will you do? Probably come cry on the forums about having nothing to work for.

 

nice, so you are a pvp forum warrior, eh?

 

some people like to chase their carrots, who are you to dictate how they should play?

 

you are whining about someone else's qqing, what does that make you?

[Varicite]

No, it is actually more like you are participating in an iron-man competition to earn equipment that somewhat closes the gap to those leading and also distances you from those that are not yet competing. You have swam to the beach and are running to reach your bicycle for the last leg. But before you can make it to the bikes, your progress is reset and you are back at the starting line with people who haven't worked as hard as you, or at all for that matter. However those that were able to make it to their bikes were able to stay there are are now continuing from the 2/3rds mark. Not only have you lost an enormous amount of ground and capabilities compared to the leaders, you've also lost your lead on those who began the race after you had reached the halfway point...

 

Again, if the Recruit set is a downgrade, why would you go to the trouble of obtaining it?

 

This makes no sense whatsoever.

[TDRedmage]

As of now BM gear on the PTS has no valor rating requirement. At one point one of the original PTS builds still had the earpiece and implants requiring a valor rating. That has since been removed and none of the BM pieces require even level 1 valor to buy. Please do some research before you post misinformation.

 

Oh so patch notes are "misinformation"?

 

Just because a feature is on the PTS doesn't mean it's going into the finished product. Often times devs will alter thresholds so testers can quickly gain access to high end features, for example raising exp gains so testers can try out top tier talents. Or maybe removing valor reqs to test out some new top tiered gear or provide balanced feedback on rated wz play.

 

I'll concede you could be right, but I consider the patch notes to be a more stable source of official information. And seeing as how they have changed the notes along with PTS updates, and have NOT changed the bit about valor rank reqs, I still consider this to be the correct information. I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

[NDiggy]

Oh so patch notes are "misinformation"?

 

Just because a feature is on the PTS doesn't mean it's going into the finished product. Often times devs will alter thresholds so testers can quickly gain access to high end features, for example raising exp gains so testers can try out top tier talents. Or maybe removing valor reqs to test out some new top tiered gear or provide balanced feedback on rated wz play.

 

I'll concede you could be right, but I consider the patch notes to be a more stable source of official information. And seeing as how they have changed the notes along with PTS updates, and have NOT changed the bit about valor rank reqs, I still consider this to be the correct information. I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

 

This website sums up all the PvP gear changes in 1.2.

 

http://dulfy.net/2012/03/22/pvp-gearing-in-1-2/#3

 

Battlemaster gear in 1.2 will no longer require a valor rank to wear and can be directly purchased using Warzone Commendations. The exchange rate is as follows

[Hardsteel]

No I don't think the pre 60 valor set gets the deal. If they REMOVED ALL THE GEAR, handed us all the same gear and said go ahead play... I'd be fine with that.

 

However Im starting to feel like Charlie Brown.. I keep playing the game running to kick the ball and BW/Lucy keeps MOVING IT WHEN I GET THERE.

 

If their going to make us grind... quit making the grind we did irrelevant a month or so later.

 

LOL, that's the catch its a Carrot and stick thing to lead people on to play,, Every MMO has done this its thw evolutoin of video game play, I like my new +1 sword , now it useless i need a +2 sword and look it huge...lol... Behold i just got my sword from vendor for 320k and i dont pvp,, I play the Auctoin house game, he who has the most money wins lol...

 

unfortunely this pvp system of play is just to keep the players waiting, I agree with a earlier post where everyone should jsut get the same game and pvp... thats what its really about fun,,, but people lose sight of that and compare gear and ego's for bragging, Bioware is just re dumbing down the pvp again..lol

[TDRedmage]

This website sums up all the PvP gear changes in 1.2.

 

http://dulfy.net/2012/03/22/pvp-gearing-in-1-2/#3

 

Oh... so BW patch notes are "misinformation", but a 3rd party website has the real info.

 

Okay, so answer me this:

 

If BM gear is available to everyone right from the start, why are they even bothering with recruit?

 

Can't wait to hear your explanation.

Edited April 4, 2012 by TDRedmage

[Varicite]

Oh... so BW patch notes are "misinformation", but a 3rd party website has the real info.

 

Okay, so answer me this:

 

If BM gear is available to everyone right from the start, why are they even bothering with recruit?

 

Can't wait to hear your explanation.

 

You can buy Recruit gear right off the bat w/ credits. It's for fresh 50s.

 

You still have to PvP for BM gear, I believe, since it costs WZ commendations.

 

The Recruit gear is to bridge the gap between fresh 50s and BM-geared people in 1.2.

[TDRedmage]

You can buy Recruit gear right off the bat w/ credits. It's for fresh 50s.

 

You still have to PvP for BM gear, I believe, since it costs WZ commendations.

 

The Recruit gear is to bridge the gap between fresh 50s and BM-geared people in 1.2.

 

That's odd because earlier in the thread those same people were arguing how much tougher it will be to bridge that gap. Oh well I guess people just make it up as they go along.

[Varicite]

That's odd because earlier in the thread those same people were arguing how much tougher it will be to bridge that gap. Oh well I guess people just make it up as they go along.

 

Yeah, and when I told them their argument made absolutely zero sense, because either you get the Recruit gear w/ credits (easy as cake) because it's an upgrade, or you keep your Champ gear because it's still better they stopped posting.

 

/shrug

 

And yes, people do like to make a lot of things up around here, unfortunately.

[DarthPunitor]

im not pvping my 50, who's now full centurion with his main/offhand champ weapons.

 

Just enjoying the lower bracket on my alts and trying to get my 42 to 50

[Luvsthis]

Okay from what I have read everyone is arguing bak and fourth about the pvp deal. Okay I am an MMO guy and I enjoy this game a lot. The part that I have a hard time with is pvp. I mean for Battlemaster Armor I want it so bad I can taste it I literally have to play pvp to the point thats all I do. I mean for 1 battlemaster commendation it costs 1000 merc and 1000 war comendations. Thats only for one! not including you have to buy 10 merc coms with 30 war coms so all in all your playing a lot of pvp also when a lvl 50 who has that armor is in a pvp match I cant kill him even when were same level and I am okay at pvp but I read the patch notes 350k for a set of pvp armor seems fair so pvp will be more competetive cuz well have the same stuff basically. I would pay 500k for a full set of armor if that meant giving the experienced pvp player a challenge sorry i am tired and typing fast this probably dont make sense but I think being able to buy pvp armor would be great and give players more interest and wanna play more. give them what they need to do flashpoints and enjoy the armor and more so that hard earned credit to buy it. If anyone has a probem with that go play hello kitty island adventure lol

[Nhaok]

No reason to pvp on your new 50 alts right now until 1.2. Besides for the fun of being stomp by people that over gear you. Just wait until 2.1, buy recruit gear, grind BM/WH.

 

You just may realize that you are tired of the game during this break.

 

T minus 39-20-10

[Sorcerix]

Yep, to sum up: it's worth squat doing pvp for relatively fresh 50s at the moment, unless getting stomped on in warzones is your way of having 'fun'.

 

[irony]

But please keep paying your monthly sub while you sit and do nothing. Thanks for your support!

[/irony]

[Proppa]

I was leveling alts in hopes 1.2 would have been here already but now my Scoundrel is also 50 and I'm not logging in at the mo, because it isn't worthwhile until 1.2 is released. If other thing's take my interest in that time, I may cancel my sub.

 

I'm glad they are adding recruit gear, but doing such a drastic change and holding it off, only discourages newer players to not PvP.

 

I have no interest in PvP, when the "PvP" is gear based, meaning fights aren't won or lost because of skill, but because player X has more expertise etc than player Y.

[Graushwein]

Again, if the Recruit set is a downgrade, why would you go to the trouble of obtaining it?

 

This makes no sense whatsoever.

 

If Centurion and Champion gear were available to get after the patch, you would be right. However it will not be available. So if it were buffed to be between recruit and BM bonuses, those that own the off-market gear would be grandfathered in, but those newcomers would not be able to get it. My OP is not moot. The scorned pre-BM players would not lose their progress and the pre-BM gear would not negate recruit armor because the pre-BM armors won't be available after the patch.

 

As far as the developer's amount of effort, it would be 10 to 30 minutes max... Subtract the respective bonuses of recruit gear from BM gear and divide the difference by 3 to get x. Then set the Centurion stats to be recruit plus x, and Champion to be recruit plus 2x. Done. I've had to do similar things to others and my code many times back in the day. There is zero debugging or balancing effort needed because you are guaranteed to be between your min and max values. Yay, everyone's effort has now been respected! That is all that I would like. Do any of those in the same boat as me disagree?

 

Or even better, since BM gear will now take less effort to get, offer us the choice of trading in our pre-BM armor for the equivalent Warzone commendations value so that we can be 25%-50% into BM gear.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Graushwein
Smartphone auto-correct...

[Ancaglon]

Ok, let's leave BM gear the same as it is pre-1.2. Let's make the new blue gear better than BM and make sure warhero gear is better than that. Then everyone will be in the same boat and everyone can pvp for the reasons you have given your seal of approval. No? Didn't think so which means the original poster's reasoning is actually valid.

Agree 100%. I'm just into Valor Rank 59, full Champion gear, and there's no way I can play enough to get more than 1 piece of Battlemaster gear between now and 1.2 -- so all the bags I'm getting at the moment are actually only going to be good for buying lockboxes -- all my companions are fully kitted in Centurion gear. I'll push 3k WZ commendations => 1K merc commendations to avoid wasting them, but beyond that? Pretty much a waste of effort.

 

On my Commando alt, I was doing "the smart thing" -- saving 1k merc + 1k warzone, and had bought 1 champ bag -- he's currently 48, looking to hit 50 this weekend, but there's probably no point in buying anything for him prior to 1.2 whatsoever.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Ancaglon

[Graushwein]

Okay from what I have read everyone is arguing bak and fourth about the pvp deal. Okay I am an MMO guy and I enjoy this game a lot. The part that I have a hard time with is pvp. I mean for Battlemaster Armor I want it so bad I can taste it I literally have to play pvp to the point thats all I do. I mean for 1 battlemaster commendation it costs 1000 merc and 1000 war comendations. Thats only for one! not including you have to buy 10 merc coms with 30 war coms so all in all your playing a lot of pvp also when a lvl 50 who has that armor is in a pvp match I cant kill him even when were same level and I am okay at pvp but I read the patch notes 350k for a set of pvp armor seems fair so pvp will be more competetive cuz well have the same stuff basically. I would pay 500k for a full set of armor if that meant giving the experienced pvp player a challenge sorry i am tired and typing fast this probably dont make sense but I think being able to buy pvp armor would be great and give players more interest and wanna play more. give them what they need to do flashpoints and enjoy the armor and more so that hard earned credit to buy it. If anyone has a probem with that go play hello kitty island adventure lol

 

Even though your punctuation is atrocious, it is still easy to understand. I agree that recruit gear is a needed addition, completely.

 

I am a Sentinel in full Centurian gear and can still solo most BM characters because I've actively worked on improving my PvP skill and practices. The whole, "A Champion character will always lose to an equally skilled BM character." argument is such a silly thing to say because 3 will always be greater than 2... But that statement dismisses SO MANY huge variables that you CAN change!

 

Use LOS

understand your character's strengths and weaknesses

know when to use what abilities

know the strengths and weaknesses of the other classes

work together

The list is endless... But don't take that as me saying skill is all that matters, because gear advantages matters A LOT.

[TDRedmage]

T minus 39-20-10

 

Until people find something about GW2 to complain about and cry on their forums?

[TDRedmage]

If Centurion and Champion gear were available to get after the patch, you would be right. However it will not be available. So if it were buffed to be between recruit and BM bonuses, those that own the off-market gear would be grandfathered in, but those newcomers would not be able to get it. My OP is not moot. The scorned pre-BM players would not lose their progress and the pre-BM gear would not negate recruit armor because the pre-BM armors won't be available after the patch.

 

As far as the developer's amount of effort, it would be 10 to 30 minutes max... Subtract the respective bonuses of recruit gear from BM gear and divide the difference by 3 to get x. Then set the Centurion stats to be recruit plus x, and Champion to be recruit plus 2x. Done. I've had to do similar things to others and my code many times back in the day. There is zero debugging or balancing effort needed because you are guaranteed to be between your min and max values. Yay, everyone's effort has now been respected! That is all that I would like. Do any of those in the same boat as me disagree?

 

Or even better, since BM gear will now take less effort to get, offer us the choice of trading in our pre-BM armor for the equivalent Warzone commendations value so that we can be 25%-50% into BM gear.

 

Your math is subject to the values of the recruit set. If the values are high enough then the recruit set can potentially have greater stat values than Cent and Champ gear. But I do see your point.

 

However I would contend that is BM armor is going to be so easy to get, who cares about losing access to the pre-BM sets? The recruit gear is greater than Cent only, and if you have access to Cent gear then you also have access to Champ gear, which is greater than the recruit set. This means that if you're getting pieces of Champ gear than your efforts are not in vain.

[VoidJustice]

Your math is subject to the values of the recruit set. If the values are high enough then the recruit set can potentially have greater stat values than Cent and Champ gear. But I do see your point.

 

However I would contend that is BM armor is going to be so easy to get, who cares about losing access to the pre-BM sets? The recruit gear is greater than Cent only, and if you have access to Cent gear then you also have access to Champ gear, which is greater than the recruit set. This means that if you're getting pieces of Champ gear than your efforts are not in vain.

 

if this is true then, I am fine with the changes. Cent gear was crud is crud and is easily gotten crud, the credits are honestly more valuable. However, the champion gear was and is hard to get. Not BM hard to get... but close enough that having it made garbage is enraging.

[Graushwein]

Your math is subject to the values of the recruit set. If the values are high enough then the recruit set can potentially have greater stat values than Cent and Champ gear. But I do see your point.

 

However I would contend that is BM armor is going to be so easy to get, who cares about losing access to the pre-BM sets? The recruit gear is greater than Cent only, and if you have access to Cent gear then you also have access to Champ gear, which is greater than the recruit set. This means that if you're getting pieces of Champ gear than your efforts are not in vain.

 

Recruit wouldn't be greater if you scrapped the old Champ stats. Take the stats for the recruit armor for the base Champ armor, then add 2x... So essentially they'd be taking Recruit gear, modifying the stats, and then attaching it to the Champ gear 3d Models. That is the easy way of explaining it, but the easy way of actually doing it (from m ylast post) removes room for error.

 

At 12,475 WZ to get a full set, that is over 166.33 warzone games averaging 70 WZ per game. 166 games is a lot from my perspective. Granted though, I don't know if they are changing the WZ reward rate.

 

And the Champ set isn't better than the Recruit set, more close to equal because the 4% expertise Recruit bonus closely balances the Champ stat bonuses. However the effort it takes to get Champ gear is huge, relative to 320k for Recruit. So yes, like what I said in the OP, what is the point of grinding WZ for more champ gear when you could PvE and have way more than 320k when the patch arrives.

 

Champ gear is hard to get if your valor only lets you get bags with 7 champ commendations... Champ and Recruit gear being close to equal, when you compare opportunity costs of doing other less fun things in the game, PvP is in vain.

[jayfourc]

I am more then frustrated that my cent gear on both of my 50s are now worthless. They need to make Cent gear at LEAST a little better then credit bought gear.

 

Cent gear is already worthless. I can crit a full centurion sentinel for 5.6K with my aimed shot. Throw the instant crit charged shot, sabo charge, trickshot, and quickdraw in there? He's dead in 3 seconds.

[NDiggy]

Yeah, and when I told them their argument made absolutely zero sense, because either you get the Recruit gear w/ credits (easy as cake) because it's an upgrade, or you keep your Champ gear because it's still better they stopped posting.

 

/shrug

 

And yes, people do like to make a lot of things up around here, unfortunately.

 

Its cute you think people stopped posting because you're arguments are just that irrefutable and not because maybe they left work and have better things to do like spend time with their family or...gasp...play SWTOR.

 

At any rate, you made the OP's argument for him. Why grind out more champion gear when you can just buy the Recruit set that is equivalent or better when 1.2 drops?

Edited April 5, 2012 by NDiggy

[namelless]

Is recruit gear going to look the same as champ gear or will i look special with my champ gear now? If so, then that's a reason to continue pvping before 1.2.

[NDiggy]

Is recruit gear going to look the same as champ gear or will i look special with my champ gear now? If so, then that's a reason to continue pvping before 1.2.

 

It looks the same.