Valor<50 -- Why PvP Prior to 1.2?

[Graushwein]

Condensed version: Edited from some nice contributors to this thread.

 

Wesgile

The main point here was that why didn't bioware just update the champ gear as well, to something inbetween recruit and bm like probably around 850 expertise or so. It really is as simple as that.

 

For most people, Fun in an MMO is created by a combination of character advancement and balanced/fun content. I really enjoy PvP as it isn't horribly imbalanced. But as a Champion, my character advancement is being removed with patch 1.2.

 

The new gear:

Helps new 50's

HURTS Champions

Same for Battlemasters (Well, except that new 50's have a slight chance to win now.)

 

Recruit set takes ZERO PvP grind time and is as good as those of us that ground 63+ hours of PvP for Champion gear.

 

Champions are losing 63+ hours. (See math at bottom of section)

New 50's are gaining 63+ hours on everyone.

 

Are Battlemaster geared players losing 63+ hours of work? No, because their progress toward the next tier is retained in 1.2 as it is used to buy War Hero gear.

Champion progress, toward next tier, will not be retained. 63+ Hrs of work will be lost because we don't get those WZ comms back towards buying Battlemaster.

 

gwyniveth

I PvP to have fun, and I am, but part of that fun comes from winning occasionally. Better PvP gear, compared to opponents, absolutely gives you a better chance to win. I never mind losing a well played match. In the new system their un-earned, instantly purchased gear, will have them in slightly better pvp gear than the Champ gear that took me more than a month to grind out.

Patch 1.1x PvP gear levels:

0. Without PvP gear

1. Centurion- One step above new 50's (Small effort, 16 Hrs)

2. Champion- Two steps above new 50's (Moderate effort, 63 Hrs)

3. Battlemaster- Can't get any better (Significant effort)

 

Patch 1.2 PvP gear levels:

-1 Centurion

0. Recruit- New 50's. Made zero because anyone can buy it instead of speeder skill at 50

0. Champion- Zero steps above new 50's. Used to be two steps above new 50's. Equal to Recruit gear.

1. Battlemaster- Same distance from Champ level in previous patch

2. War Hero

 

 

PROPOSAL for 1.2 PvP gear levels:

0. Centurion- Change stats to be equal to recruit gear.

0. Recruit- New 50's. Made zero because anyone can buy it instead of speeder skill at 50

1. Champion- One step above new 50's. Used to be two steps above new 50's

2. Battlemaster- Same distance from Champ level in previous patch

3. War Hero

 

gwyniveth

That said, I do NOT have fun playing against pre-made groups in BM gear. I don't like getting steam rolled in a match that I or my team mates can't win. (On my server, Kaas City, the Sith outgear/outpopulate us and play with pre-mades so much that I have had two losing streaks of 30+ games in the last 2 weeks, and I'm pretty darn good.) Are they better PvP players then we are , maybe some of them are, but it more comes down to gear. And if you lose more often, you get frustrated because you can't get the better gear that helps you win. So to say that gear doesn't matter is just not the case. If gear were really not important, why have PVP gear at all?

 

I "worked" hard for my better gear so that I could spend more time alive improving my game play. Currently, new level 50's have some disadvantage against me because I earned Champ gear. In the new system their un-earned, instantly purchased gear, will have them in slightly better pvp gear than the Champ gear that took me mor than a month to grind out. Yep, I can buy the gear too, but why do I have to? I absolutely support a beginner lvl 50 pvp gear set for the new 50's. But why does it have to start out being better then my hard earned Champ gear? Why does Champ gear not become the mid tier instead of the bottom tier?

 

Yes, I had/am having fun, but more so now that I have gear in which I can compete. With 1.2, I am starting from scratch, and it doesn't make me happy, not one little bit. Am I still going to PvP? Yes, for fun when my guild isn't raiding. Am I still going to keep working to improve my play style... yes. Am I still going to have fun? I sure hope so.

 

But please for the love off all that is good PvP, stop belittling those of us in Champ gear who feel like we got shafted.

 

MATH

Optimally, doing all daily/weeklies gets you 24 bags = 360 centurion comms for about 14 hours a week, buying 4 bags at 800 WZ each.

Cent set is 432 which takes about 16.4 hours of grind.

 

168 Champ comms per 14 hour week at 7 per bag x 24 bags.

Champ set is 743

4.5 weeks (63 Hrs) to get a full set

 

 

 

 

===============================================================================

OLD version of OP kept for transparency.

 

 

NOTE: This is a statement from a gear standpoint. Yes PvP is fun, but other things are fun too. Let's present an equivalent comparison for all you Battlemaster gear owners. What if they weren't buffing BM gear and the recruit gear would be better?

 

First of all, I love the game but really hate how BW's chosen to screw Centurion/Champion gear holders with patch 1.2.

 

Centurion gear will be vastly inferior to the new Recruit armor that can be bought for a measly 320k?

Champion gear will be equal, or more likely inferior, to Recruit gear.

 

Champion and Centurion gear won't be sold anymore nor have stats changed.

 

All PvP gear will be purchased with normal warzone commendations, or ranked commendations. Why work for purple bags when the centurion and champion commendations will only net me some crafting stuff or lame blue box with a random (or perhaps a pvp crafting material)?

 

Mercenary commendations will go to a 1-1 ratio instead of the current 3-1. There will be no conversion during the patch. So if I max warzone commendations now, it is 3 times the time/effort than post 1.2.

 

Seriously, why PvP before 1.2?

 

As a person with a family, it took me a while to build up the full Centurion set I had. Now I know that most people think that this isn't much effort, but it actually is when you only have about 4 hours to play a week! I feel like my effort is being rewarded with spit in the face! At least give me the option of trading my centurion, and few Champion, gear back in for the new WZ commendations I can use to buy Battlemaster gear on patch day? With BioWares exchange rate of 1,000.WZ = 45.Centurion = 30.Champion = 1.Battlemaster, I could buy one third of the Battlemaster set based on what I've spent in Centurion and Champoin gear.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Graushwein
Clarity

[NDiggy]

I'm in the same boat as you. Took my time leveling, missed out on the Ilum valor-fests, and had to slowly grind to valor rank 60, which I hit last week. Now, after grinding out the ranks for the past few months BW pulls the carpet out from under us and valor is essentially worthless when 1.2 launches. We get nothing for all the time we spent grinding out those valor ranks and we get the pleasure of completely starting over gearing ourselves when 1.2 drops.

 

Its frustrating not to have anything to show for the two months of time I've spent grinding pvp ranks. All the badges, warzone and merc commendations I've spent on centurion and champ gear were wasted.

 

I admit the system was awful and really penalized late comers to the pvp scene, but the least BW could do was give us something to show for all the time we spent grinding valor. Under the new system given all the time I've spent pvp'ing, I'd have been able to outfit myself and all my companions twice over in Battlemaster gear by now. Instead I have nothing to show for my time but the few pieces of BM gear I bought with WZ and Merc Coms because the drop rate on BM Badges is so abysmal.

[Ronamo]

Why PVP before 1.2? The same reason you'll be PVPing after 1.2 . For competition against other players. If you're pvping purely for gear and not for constantly developing strategy and effort to win against other players, you're missing the point in my opinion.

 

If you can't see any point to playing now, I don't see why you'd see any point to playing later. The point of PVP is to compete against other players, and hopefully to win. Not to get shinies. The shinies just help you win to a degree (though the discussion of the magnitude of their contribution is an entirely different barrel of Mon Calamari spawn).

 

 

EDIT: To the second poster, no -- all that gear you earned prior to 1.2 was not wasted. It went towards helping you compete. If you're a smartphone user, think of it like a last generation phone. Or perhaps a TV smaller than the current market standard. You bought it, it did its job, something better came along. You didn't waste your money on the item -- you paid for the use you got out of it. It might not be the biggest, brightest, or flashiest, but you can certainly continue to use it if you see fit.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Ronamo

[Stradoo]

Why PVP before 1.2? The same reason you'll be PVPing after 1.2 . For competition against other players. If you're pvping purely for gear and not for constantly developing strategy and effort to win against other players, you're missing the point in my opinion.

 

If you can't see any point to playing now, I don't see why you'd see any point to playing later. The point of PVP is to compete against other players, and hopefully to win. Not to get shinies. The shinies just help you win to a degree (though the discussion of the magnitude of their contribution is an entirely different barrel of Mon Calamari spawn).

 

This dude speaks the truth.

[Stradoo]

I'm in the same boat as you. Took my time leveling, missed out on the Ilum valor-fests, and had to slowly grind to valor rank 60, which I hit last week. Now, after grinding out the ranks for the past few months BW pulls the carpet out from under us and valor is essentially worthless when 1.2 launches. We get nothing for all the time we spent grinding out those valor ranks and we get the pleasure of completely starting over gearing ourselves when 1.2 drops.

 

Its frustrating not to have anything to show for the two months of time I've spent grinding pvp ranks. All the badges, warzone and merc commendations I've spent on centurion and champ gear were wasted.

 

I admit the system was awful and really penalized late comers to the pvp scene, but the least BW could do was give us something to show for all the time we spent grinding valor. Under the new system given all the time I've spent pvp'ing, I'd have been able to outfit myself and all my companions twice over in Battlemaster gear by now. Instead I have nothing to show for my time but the few pieces of BM gear I bought with WZ and Merc Coms because the drop rate on BM Badges is so abysmal.

 

All you had to say to make your post INVALID.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Stradoo

[Vashforth]

I am more then frustrated that my cent gear on both of my 50s are now worthless. They need to make Cent gear at LEAST a little better then credit bought gear.

[JustTray]

You're right you shouldn't.

 

Valor is useless next patch, and most gear obsolete. The plain fact is you shouldn't waste any time at this point if you're not valor 50 yet. You probably wouldn't even hit BM before the patch, let alone start to get geared up in BM gear.

[Mrip]

To have fun

To hit rank 65 for the Baron vehicle that won't be available after 1.2

To not be forgotten or overlooked when people start forming rated groups

[NDiggy]

 

EDIT: To the second poster, no -- all that gear you earned prior to 1.2 was not wasted. It went towards helping you compete. If you're a smartphone user, think of it like a last generation phone. Or perhaps a TV smaller than the current market standard. You bought it, it did its job, something better came along. You didn't waste your money on the item -- you paid for the use you got out of it. It might not be the biggest, brightest, or flashiest, but you can certainly continue to use it if you see fit.

 

Except you could still use the last generation smart phone if you wanted to without being penalized. If you set foot into a WZ post 1.2 in centurion or champion gear you WILL be destroyed. That is the whole point. Anyone who has come over from WoW or any other MMO knows about the whole gear treadmill that constitutes endgame MMOs. In WoW my S1 arena gear wasn't suddenly useless when S2 started, I could use that gear to build upon until my S2 set was complete.

 

BW isn't updated the stats on centurion or champion gear. Both sets will be sub par to a set anyone can buy for 320k credits or so. 2 months of grinding replaced by 320k credits worth of gear. It is demoralizing, which is why the OP and myself are frustrated, its not that we don't enjoy the competition and strategy (lawl) involved in SWTOR pvp. We're just frustrated that the day 1.2 goes live most or all of our gear will be inferior to the new Recruit set which anyone can buy in its entirety from day one.

[coolnamesrtaken]

For fun... remember? That's why you play video games in the first place.

[Stradoo]

Except you could still use the last generation smart phone if you wanted to without being penalized. If you set foot into a WZ post 1.2 in centurion or champion gear you WILL be destroyed. That is the whole point. Anyone who has come over from WoW or any other MMO knows about the whole gear treadmill that constitutes endgame MMOs. In WoW my S1 arena gear wasn't suddenly useless when S2 started, I could use that gear to build upon until my S2 set was complete.

 

BW isn't updated the stats on centurion or champion gear. Both sets will be sub par to a set anyone can buy for 320k credits or so. 2 months of grinding replaced by 320k credits worth of gear. It is demoralizing, which is why the OP and myself are frustrated, its not that we don't enjoy the competition and strategy (lawl) involved in SWTOR pvp. We're just frustrated that the day 1.2 goes live most or all of our gear will be inferior to the new Recruit set which anyone can buy in its entirety from day one.

 

BW did it for the lulz.

[NDiggy]

I am more then frustrated that my cent gear on both of my 50s are now worthless. They need to make Cent gear at LEAST a little better then credit bought gear.

 

They need to update the stats on both Cent and Champ gear or else they'll both remain inferior to the new Recruit set. It'd be one thing if they were making everyone start all over again from scratch, but updating the Battlemaster set and not the other two speaks volumes about which customers BW values.

[NDiggy]

For fun... remember? That's why you play video games in the first place.

 

I take it you didn't read the post?

[sensiblepoast]

For fun... remember? That's why you play video games in the first place.

 

People can have fun getting new gear in pvp the same way they do in pve.

[RabidPopcorn]

Took my time leveling, missed out on the Ilum valor-fests

 

Yeah, I feel really short-changed when they changed Ilum... I never even got a chance to get the easy valor and now I take so much longer to gain valor compared to those who got the easy valor in Ilum, that's what I find unfair.

Edited April 3, 2012 by RabidPopcorn

[Chaqa]

I am in no way happy about the upcoming changes to the PvP gear system and valor in 1.2.

 

That being said you PvP to have fun, if your as good as you believe, your peers will know it as well and will invite you to roll in a premade when rated WZ.

 

If its to obtain prestige from a group of non-pvp people then please stop, you wont be missed.

[ohnam]

I am in no way happy about the upcoming changes to the PvP gear system and valor in 1.2.

 

That being said you PvP to have fun, if your as good as you believe, your peers will know it as well and will invite you to roll in a premade when rated WZ.

 

If its to obtain prestige from a group of non-pvp people then please stop, you wont be missed.

 

You guys are full of it, I pvp to have fun and to progress. This is a mmorpg, just because you guys can't fathom the idea of progressing through pvp shouldn't mean we should have our choices narrowed by your close minded thinking.

[Audenlol]

Just be sure not to have champion or centurion gear lol.

 

 

From a gear standpoint, NO there is no point to pvp prior 1.2 unless you are already BM and can deal with biowares ****** bm bags. Even so, it will still be a grind no matter how "fun" pvp is.

 

 

They really dropping the ball by not giving at least champion gear some pitty expertise to keep it inline with the PURCHASABLE BY CREDIT blue set.

 

I mean cmon bioware, use your limited brain power and set the expertise on them to 75ish

[Hobnobb]

Yeah, I feel really short-changed when they changed Ilum... I never even got a chance to get the easy valor and now I take so much longer to gain valor compared to those who got the easy valor in Ilum, that's what I find unfair.

 

How long are people going to QQ about this?

 

I never could participate in the Ilum valor gain fest, because well frankly I didnt understand how good it was until it was too late and missed it (otherwise I would have done it for sure) ... so I did it the old fashioned way ... I am now valor rank 67.

 

From 58 till 67 I did it after the patch (1.1.x?) which increased valor gain alot - so those who are leveling up valor now ... it is much much much easier now than before - before you got 1000 valor per game, now you get alot more.

 

You should be happy you don't have to grind 1000 valor per game like before.

[MightyHalo]

I am at 66 valor now thinking I needed 70 by the patch, but I guess I was mistaken.

[chumeniuk]

So if I'm at valor rank 55, should I keep moving forward or wait until 1.2? Yeah, I get the fun part, but right now it's gear progression that I'm after.

[NDiggy]

So if I'm at valor rank 55, should I keep moving forward or wait until 1.2? Yeah, I get the fun part, but right now it's gear progression that I'm after.

 

From a gear perspective, get 1000 Mercenary Coms and 1000 Warzone Coms ready for 1.2 to spend on BM gear. Aside from that not much reason to do PvP unless you just love being undergeared and fighting War Heroes in full BM gear.

Edited April 3, 2012 by NDiggy

[Graushwein]

I am in no way happy about the upcoming changes to the PvP gear system and valor in 1.2.

 

That being said you PvP to have fun, if your as good as you believe, your peers will know it as well and will invite you to roll in a premade when rated WZ.

 

If its to obtain prestige from a group of non-pvp people then please stop, you wont be missed.

 

You mean you don't play to accumulate items, wealth, increased combat effectiveness and even cool looking gear? Well I have good news for you! Go play Team Fortress because this game isn't for you!

 

The same goes for the rest of you "Just for fun" Trolls with self-esteem problems such that you believe that superiority in a virtual game makes your lives more worthwhile and use laughably juvenile flaunting to anonymously belittle others while inflating broken egos with imaginary success.

 

I was speaking from an effort-expended perspective. I like PvE raiding almost as much as PvP. So balancing balancing fun with character/gear advancement, BioWare has removed my ability to have fun AND advance my character until 1.2 arrives, thus falling below the parity line. In addition, they are negating my pvp gear efforts thus far.

[Chewdatbacker]

I love all the baddies in this thread that are all sad that their gear will be easier to get next patch. Don't you guys remember WoW PvP? Each time a new set of gear came out, the previous version was easier to get. You know how hard it would be it would be to get the best pvp gear, if say after 4 new sets came out? Having to go through all those sets would be hard, and really time consuming. It also wouldn't be fun at all, especially if it is an alt. Also, if the only reason you guys are PvP'ing is just for the gear, then you are doing it wrong. Quit crying about it.

[skarlson]

This dude speaks the truth.

 

Ok, let's leave BM gear the same as it is pre-1.2. Let's make the new blue gear better than BM and make sure warhero gear is better than that. Then everyone will be in the same boat and everyone can pvp for the reasons you have given your seal of approval. No? Didn't think so which means the original poster's reasoning is actually valid.