No Cross Realm LFG tool please!

[ferroz]

You complain that not having xserver is ruining your experience so you argue that others should be ruined by having one.

No, that's not true at all; the complaint is that the lack of groups is ruining people's experience; the corollary claims are that having xserver would fix that particular problem (and other problems related to server population based on specifics of implementation), and that it doesn't actually ruin anyone's experience, you're just blaming it for things that it didn't actually cause.

 

There is just no other viable solution.

Correct, adding cross server is the only way I'll be able to play with people on other servers without having to relocate.

 

Stop trying to downplay it as if they were just cropped out of thin air, youre not successfully proving or dismissing any of it by doing so. Absence of proof is not proof of absense.

The onus to prove that the problem exists is on the person claiming that it exists.

 

 

It didnt start going to the crapper until BC.

So... years before they added xserver lfd it went to the crapper?

 

If you didnt do those dungeons you were stuck in green gear you got 10 levels ago.

Which didn't impact your ability to continue soloing at all...

 

Hmm ... go into the space station and hope to find a good group ... or enjoy questing at some planet then get some blue moddables at the end of it anyway?

xserver lfg allows people to do both.

 

There are MANY other solutions to this that will keep the community together.

No, there really aren't. There are a couple of temporary bandaid solutions, but none of them fix the problem except for tearing down the artificial server walls (ie: cross server grouping) Edited April 10, 2012 by ferroz

[RachelAnne]

It does have the option to not use it though.

 

The second part is one reason why I would prefer that the group finder offered no extra rewards to using it than are currently ingame for running a flashpoint.

 

There is also the option to be nice and add people to your friend list, move server or join a guild if you struggle with finding groups

 

Yet you ignore all those and demand a tool.

 

I definately think that having a tool to help is fine, but not having a tool that kills everything that MMO´s are about.

 

The wow tool is such a bad designed tool, you get people you dont know, you cant coop before the run, like choosing specs, you cant discuss loot rules before, you cant discuss how the run should be done (fast & skippy / slow & full)...

 

There are way too many different people playing this game, you just wont always have people like you in your groups.

 

There are games which have much better tools for finding players, thats what BW should copy - but not the wow tool which is so badly designed.

 

 

 

People should be able to get somekind of "reputation" so that if you are a good player and friendly, you meet people who are like that as well. Rude behaivour should not benefit players like it does at wow, where as more rude someone is, as more success he has. No it should be a punishment.

 

LoL has a group finding system, where people can chat for over a minute before the game starts. In that time you can see if you want to play with those people or not. Also you get a higher reputation if you win - so that you will be able to skip the rude people sooner or later.

 

Nobody should be forced to play with people he / she doesnt want to. But a LFG tool does exactly this.

[Skirata_Kal]

Nobody should be forced to play with people he / she doesnt want to. But a LFG tool does exactly this.

 

Noone is forced to use the LFG tool in WoW. I know people who refused to use it. They still formed guild groups or linked up with friends. In fact, you can form your own PuG and then use the LFG as a group if you want. Or you can form your group and then travel together to the instance old school style if you want.

 

The accountability argument just doesn't work either. Before WoW had LFG if you reported someone as a ninja, you would get reported for reporting. It was worse to be a whistleblower than a ninja on some servers. As I recall, when using LFG you could only NEED on items your toon could use. With further refinements, you could eliminate ninja-ing pretty much which is where most of the drama seemed to come from (the rest came from dps meters which we don't currently have in game which is another topic altogether).

[ferroz]

The wow tool is such a bad designed tool, you get people you dont know,

This is what happens when you pug with people, and has nothing to do with the tool. This isn't a downside: it's one of the features that I'm looking for.

 

you cant coop before the run, like choosing specs,

Yes you can; I've on several occasions swapped out specs with someone (particularly when I wound up as dps on my priest alt, since I preferred to heal on him)

 

you cant discuss loot rules before,

Sure you can, though it does lock you into a specific superset of loot rules, meaning that the loot rules you decide on aren't enforced by the game.

 

you cant discuss how the run should be done (fast & skippy / slow & full)...

Sure you can, I did this every time I was tanking (since I determine the speed when Tanking) and most of the time when not tanking.

 

There are way too many different people playing this game, you just wont always have people like you in your groups.

and?

 

I'm actually social, so I'm good with this. I don't need to surround myself with a clique or clones of myself.

 

There are games which have much better tools for finding players, thats what BW should copy - but not the wow tool which is so badly designed.

You haven't actually said anything about the tool that is badly designed. Edited April 10, 2012 by ferroz

[Orizuru]

There is also the option to be nice and add people to your friend list, move server or join a guild if you struggle with finding groups

 

Yet you ignore all those and demand a tool.

 

I definately think that having a tool to help is fine, but not having a tool that kills everything that MMO´s are about.

 

The wow tool is such a bad designed tool, you get people you dont know, you cant coop before the run, like choosing specs, you cant discuss loot rules before, you cant discuss how the run should be done (fast & skippy / slow & full)...

 

There are way too many different people playing this game, you just wont always have people like you in your groups.

 

There are games which have much better tools for finding players, thats what BW should copy - but not the wow tool which is so badly designed.

 

 

 

People should be able to get somekind of "reputation" so that if you are a good player and friendly, you meet people who are like that as well. Rude behaivour should not benefit players like it does at wow, where as more rude someone is, as more success he has. No it should be a punishment.

 

LoL has a group finding system, where people can chat for over a minute before the game starts. In that time you can see if you want to play with those people or not. Also you get a higher reputation if you win - so that you will be able to skip the rude people sooner or later.

 

Nobody should be forced to play with people he / she doesnt want to. But a LFG tool does exactly this.

 

How does a LFG tool prevent you from forming your own groups with people you know in the same manner that you do now without the LFG tool?

 

How does the LFG tool prevent you from dropping group when you don't like the people you a paired with in a randomly formed group?

[Omiva]

I am a casual late night player, and since I started playing since the game came out, I have had 3 50's, and all 3 have been able to tank or heal, and I have yet to see a single flashpoint or operation, due to the fact that people only wanna que for PVP cause they don't have to move. And the people that are doing flashpoints only do HM's, which def eliminates any chance I have, cause the only way to do HM's it seems is to just PVP your way to gear:(

 

The LFG tool is needed for us casual players like myself that pay the same amount of money as everyone else, and deserve a tool just like the one they use for PVP, simple as that.

[CorellianWannabe]

There is also the option to be nice and add people to your friend list, move server or join a guild if you struggle with finding groups

 

Yet you ignore all those and demand a tool.

 

I definately think that having a tool to help is fine, but not having a tool that kills everything that MMO´s are about.

 

The wow tool is such a bad designed tool, you get people you dont know, you cant coop before the run, like choosing specs, you cant discuss loot rules before, you cant discuss how the run should be done (fast & skippy / slow & full)...

 

There are way too many different people playing this game, you just wont always have people like you in your groups.

 

There are games which have much better tools for finding players, thats what BW should copy - but not the wow tool which is so badly designed.

 

 

 

People should be able to get somekind of "reputation" so that if you are a good player and friendly, you meet people who are like that as well. Rude behaivour should not benefit players like it does at wow, where as more rude someone is, as more success he has. No it should be a punishment.

 

LoL has a group finding system, where people can chat for over a minute before the game starts. In that time you can see if you want to play with those people or not. Also you get a higher reputation if you win - so that you will be able to skip the rude people sooner or later.

 

Nobody should be forced to play with people he / she doesnt want to. But a LFG tool does exactly this.

 

How does LFG force you to play with people you don't want to? It doesn't let you drop group?

 

Do you honestly keep records of how Darthas took 'your' loot drop? Do you name and shame them in general chat? Would you do it here if Bioware allowed it? Do you write their name down if Sithiroth says in general that Darthas stole a drop during his run? Do you take someone's word for it or do you need to see it yourself? Innocent until proven guilty or convicted by accusation?

 

There are 1.7 million playing this game-there will be jerks. How is punishing players on low population servers, with limited time, or odd schedules going to make their experience better? Forcing them to team only with players from their server (who may be those said jerks) doesn't make their play experience any better-in fact it's possible that the only people online when they are ARE those jerks. No group activities for them, I guess? Reroll to a more populated server? Forget the minority?

[chaosdefined]

There is also the option to be nice and add people to your friend list, move server or join a guild if you struggle with finding groups

 

Yet you ignore all those and demand a tool.

 

I definately think that having a tool to help is fine, but not having a tool that kills everything that MMO´s are about.

 

The wow tool is such a bad designed tool, you get people you dont know, you cant coop before the run, like choosing specs, you cant discuss loot rules before, you cant discuss how the run should be done (fast & skippy / slow & full)...

 

There are way too many different people playing this game, you just wont always have people like you in your groups.

 

There are games which have much better tools for finding players, thats what BW should copy - but not the wow tool which is so badly designed.

 

 

 

People should be able to get somekind of "reputation" so that if you are a good player and friendly, you meet people who are like that as well. Rude behaivour should not benefit players like it does at wow, where as more rude someone is, as more success he has. No it should be a punishment.

 

LoL has a group finding system, where people can chat for over a minute before the game starts. In that time you can see if you want to play with those people or not. Also you get a higher reputation if you win - so that you will be able to skip the rude people sooner or later.

 

Nobody should be forced to play with people he / she doesnt want to. But a LFG tool does exactly this.

 

You're not being forced to use it though, that's your choice. Just like grouping with people from your guild or friends list.

 

however for those on low pop servers, that's not much of an option if there's not enough people around to form groups with.

 

WoW's tool was not badly designed. It works as intended and more people enjoy it than hate it. This is proven by the sheer fact that it's still in use. If so many people hated it, they'd stop using it and Blizz would call it a failure. As it stands, people continue to use it constantly. The numbers speak louder than a few crybabies on a forum.

 

moving servers is also a very poor choice. People don't want to abandon characters they've spent months working on, to start all over again!

 

And please, do tell us about other games that have a Group Finder tool that is apparently far better than WoW's and not actually just the same.

[MasterKayote]

No, that's not true at all; the complaint is that the lack of groups is ruining people's experience; the corollary claims are that having xserver would fix that particular problem (and other problems related to server population based on specifics of implementation), and that it doesn't actually ruin anyone's experience, you're just blaming it for things that it didn't actually cause.

 

Its not just me but yeah youre absolutely right. As I mentioned right after, we all just magically came to the same conclusion against the Xserver LFG. Totally fabricated and irrational just as I mentioned previously in a completely non-sarcastic fashion.

 

Correct, adding cross server is the only way I'll be able to play with people on other servers without having to relocate.

 

Says you. You point to WoW which has had successful grouping since day 1 and claim that its the only answer here despite all the negatives its brought ... oh wait ... youre already convinced there are no negatives and its all just a figment on our imagination. Dam youre good.

 

The onus to prove that the problem exists is on the person claiming that it exists.

 

Ah ... the old burden of proof huh?

 

Ok, lets try that again since it seems you didnt click the link ...

 

This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four, (1) true, (2) false, (3) unknown between true or false, and (4) being unknowable (among the first three).[1] In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof."

 

Pay very close attention to the last sentence as its very very familiar to recent posts...

 

 

So... years before they added xserver lfd it went to the crapper?

 

Yeah, because they trivialized all the vanilla content to where running an instance did nothing but grant you gear you'd replace almost immediately for content that was made even easier ...

 

... or wait was this some clever way of cutting my post to make it seem like I said the community went to the crapper before the LFD tool? Nice try. Even if I had said that, it doesnt mean its not in a far worse place now thank to LFD.

 

Which didn't impact your ability to continue soloing at all...

 

It did so much more than it currently does in TOR ... and you looks like crap to boot. Or would you like to point me the commendation vendor in vanilla WoW that gave me Blue quality Blue gear after getting 14 commendations from Westfall? Or maybe the multitude of soloable quests that gave you blue upgrades? Hell ill even take some evidence on how one could achieve a constant flow of blue quality gear by just crafting and RE'ing a few items.

 

The point, which you so cleverly edited out, was WoW went for so long without any grouping problems because it gave players incentive to do so.

 

xserver lfg allows people to do both.

 

So does same server.

 

No, there really aren't. There are a couple of temporary bandaid solutions, but none of them fix the problem except for tearing down the artificial server walls (ie: cross server grouping)

 

Again, says you. Many others think there is more which can be done without all the negatives ... oh wait ... youre already convinced ... bah I said this already.

 

Same server allows people to go about their business while looking for groups server wide. We'll have to see what results 1.2 has on the population but assuming it stays this way there are other ways of providing a decent pool of players to group from that dont involve promoting even more bad behavior and benefit other parts of the game as well.

[chaosdefined]

You point to WoW which has had successful grouping since day 1

 

If it was so successful why was there a need for Group Finder at all?

[Snoodmaster]

There are games which have much better tools for finding players, thats what BW should copy - but not the wow tool which is so badly designed.

 

Nobody here is arguing that Bioware has to copy blizzard's LFG exactly. Personally, I think that there are places to improve and i would like to see Bioware make some innovation and evolution of the idea.

 

LoL has a group finding system, where people can chat for over a minute before the game starts. In that time you can see if you want to play with those people or not. Also you get a higher reputation if you win - so that you will be able to skip the rude people sooner or later.

 

This is an interesting idea, giving people a short time window, like the queue timer for PvP, to chat to other people in the group, discuss things, and leave the queue without penalty.

 

Thinking about it, I also think it would be interesting and beneficial to add a "rating" system, like youtube likes/dislikes. Each time you finish a dungeon, people can vote you up or down if they feel really strongly about the run. On an average run, people will just not click anything. If the run was amazing, people will 'like' you. Act like a jerk and you get a permanent black mark. Then, whenever you get queued into LFG, you can see the ratings for other people before the group forms and decide if you want to be in that group. It would keep griefing fairly low because someone would have to take time out of their way to downvote you, and since you are unlikely to see the same person again, it is unlikely that griefers could have any sort of meaningful campaign against a single person.

 

Again, the core of this debate should not be a referendum on World of Warcraft, but a discussion of the likely effects, benefits and downsides of restricting an automated group forming tool to each individual server, or opening it up to multiple servers.

[Orizuru]

Nobody here is arguing that Bioware has to copy blizzard's LFG exactly. Personally, I think that there are places to improve and i would like to see Bioware make some innovation and evolution of the idea.

 

 

 

This is an interesting idea, giving people a short time window, like the queue timer for PvP, to chat to other people in the group, discuss things, and leave the queue without penalty.

 

Thinking about it, I also think it would be interesting and beneficial to add a "rating" system, like youtube likes/dislikes. Each time you finish a dungeon, people can vote you up or down if they feel really strongly about the run. On an average run, people will just not click anything. If the run was amazing, people will 'like' you. Act like a jerk and you get a permanent black mark. Then, whenever you get queued into LFG, you can see the ratings for other people before the group forms and decide if you want to be in that group. It would keep griefing fairly low because someone would have to take time out of their way to downvote you, and since you are unlikely to see the same person again, it is unlikely that griefers could have any sort of meaningful campaign against a single person.

 

Again, the core of this debate should not be a referendum on World of Warcraft, but a discussion of the likely effects, benefits and downsides of restricting an automated group forming tool to each individual server, or opening it up to multiple servers.

 

I'm not a fan of "down-rating" players who don't perform well. This type of system is prone to griefing and trolling. There are people out there who will go to great lengths to harass a complete stranger. I think a system where you could "up-vote" a player for doing well though could be useful, however it would likely end up turning into another means for players to artificially gate content for other players. We could end up with a game where the good players who have the most to teach other players require a specific player rating before you can join their groups or avoid being kicked from a group with them.

 

Regardless of whether or not there is a ratings system for players though, the success of a LFG tool is in how it is implemented. This is something many people have been saying on this topic since the first page. I think it's a shame how closed-minded so many players have become on this topic simply because of the relatively few bad experiences they had in another game. There is plenty of room for a compromise that would work well and work for both sides of the issue. It's just proven to be very challenging to get individuals to set aside their egos long enough to discuss it intelligently.

[NDiggy]

There is also the option to be nice and add people to your friend list, move server or join a guild if you struggle with finding groups

 

Yet you ignore all those and demand a tool.

 

 

Everyone on my friends list (over 100 people) I made while leveling has quit the game or gone to another populated server. I refuse to re-roll because I don't feel I should have to if BW is doing their job correctly. My guild is shrinking as well, and those that could tank or heal a hardmode FP simply don't because there is nothing in it for them. All in all, your "solutions" are about as useful as a sack of hammers. If you don't think this game needs cross server LFG then you're oblivious or you play on one of the handful of servers that haven't died yet.

[NDiggy]

Says you. You point to WoW which has had successful grouping since day 1 and claim that its the only answer here despite all the negatives its brought ... oh wait ... youre already convinced there are no negatives and its all just a figment on our imagination. Dam youre good.

 

Grouping in WoW wasn't easy from day 1. It was always spamming general chat trying to find a mage cause you needed that CC to fill out your group, or a the one prot warrior on your server since druids and paladins couldn't tank that well (or at all) in Vanilla. I'll admit cross server LFG damaged the sense of community on the server I was on, but that was because there was still a community left to damage. At this point where is the community on my server? I won't shed any tears if the "community" of 20 or so people left on my server suffers a bit if I can actually experience the content I pay BW $15 a month to see.

 

 

Everyone against cross server LFG bemoans the effect it will have on the community, but none of them acknowledge that for most of us, on our servers there is no community left.

[ferroz]

Its not just me but yeah youre absolutely right.

Glad to hear it.

 

Says you.

No... it's tautological: Cross server grouping is the only way I'll be able to group with people on other servers. If I can't group cross server then I can't group cross server...

 

Perhaps actually read the text you're going to quote?

 

You point to WoW which has had successful grouping since day 1 and claim that its the only answer here despite all the negatives its brought ... oh wait ... youre already convinced there are no negatives and its all just a figment on our imagination.

No, not figments of your imagination. You're blaming stuff that wasn't caused by xserver lfg on xserver.

 

So, flawed logical analysis paired with rose colored glasses, not figment of imagination.

 

Ah ... the old burden of proof huh?

Yup, if you try to use something as the basis of your argument, the burden of proof is on you.

 

Ok, lets try that again since it seems you didnt click the link ...

I'm familiar with the fallacy; it doesn't apply in this case because you're trying to use it as the basis of your argument, so I'm not setting up a false dichotomy; it's either true, false, unknown, or unknowable.

• If the claim you make isn't true then you have not actually provided a valid argument against the lfg tool.
  
• If you haven't done enough investigation to prove that your premise is true, then you have not actually provided a valid argument against the lfg tool.
  
• If it's not possible to know whether your claim is in fact true of false, then you have not actually provided a valid argument against the lfg tool.
  

 

 

The only time youv'e made a valid argument against cross server lfg is if you can prove your basis/premise to be true. That's how logical implication works.

 

 

So the fact that your entire argument is invalid unless you prove that your premise is true (and that the burden of proof is on you) has nothing to do with the fallacy you've linked.

 

So does same server.

Actually, it doesn't: single server doesn't allow the latter on low pop servers. That's why I ran into 6+ hour queues single server in RIFT while queued as tank, heals, dps, and support (on my alt cleric). That's why someone on gnarlwood was posting screenshots of 12 or 16 hour queues when it was still single server. That's why I had a 1.5 hour queue when we had a tank, a healer, a support and a dps and just needed a 2nd dps (or any role, since the tank heal and support were also queued as dps) even at the level cap.

 

Again, says you.

Indeed: the stuff that you're suggesting simply does not fix the problem. People still have problems finding groups off hours, at mid levels, and on low pop servers; the only way to actually fix that is to tear down the artificial server walls.

 

Same server allows people to go about their business while looking for groups server wide.

It leaves out the "finding groups" part though. Edited April 10, 2012 by ferroz

[Valkirus]

I'm not a fan of "down-rating" players who don't perform well. This type of system is prone to griefing and trolling. There are people out there who will go to great lengths to harass a complete stranger. I think a system where you could "up-vote" a player for doing well though could be useful, however it would likely end up turning into another means for players to artificially gate content for other players. We could end up with a game where the good players who have the most to teach other players require a specific player rating before you can join their groups or avoid being kicked from a group with them.

 

Regardless of whether or not there is a ratings system for players though, the success of a LFG tool is in how it is implemented. This is something many people have been saying on this topic since the first page. I think it's a shame how closed-minded so many players have become on this topic simply because of the relatively few bad experiences they had in another game. There is plenty of room for a compromise that would work well and work for both sides of the issue. It's just proven to be very challenging to get individuals to set aside their egos long enough to discuss it intelligently.

 

Very good points. And I agree about the griefing and trolling which does happen and would be used a lot in such a reward by players for other players type system.

 

A LFG can only be successful if it based upon a logical fact...the larger the pool of players that groups can be made up from, the more successful it will be in terms of making a group in a timely manner. Blizz tried the server side only tool and it was not very successful, so they went to a cross server one. Rift did the same thing I guess. Anyone who says a server side only LFG tool will work on a low pop server is just not being realistic.

 

Past experences can be a great tool for avoiding mistakes if one is wise enough to take notice of them. That is in reference to helping players find groups for end game content, which in many cases...they never would be able to do.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Valkirus

[Skirata_Kal]

Anyone who says a server side only LFG tool will work on a low pop server is just not being realistic.

 

AMEN! Simply amazing how many people don't get that.

[RachelAnne]

I'm not a fan of "down-rating" players who don't perform well. This type of system is prone to griefing and trolling. There are people out there who will go to great lengths to harass a complete stranger. I think a system where you could "up-vote" a player for doing well though could be useful, however it would likely end up turning into another means for players to artificially gate content for other players. We could end up with a game where the good players who have the most to teach other players require a specific player rating before you can join their groups or avoid being kicked from a group with them.

 

Just let the game rate player performance. There are many examples how this can work well, a completed dungeon can give you points, a run without kick´s can give you points etc.

 

The pointless griefing like at wow, should not be possible at Tor. There people do whatever they want, without any consequences - the horrible wow community is also there because of that.

At vanilla such people were blacklisted and didnt stand a chance on any server.

 

Regardless of whether or not there is a ratings system for players though, the success of a LFG tool is in how it is implemented. This is something many people have been saying on this topic since the first page. I think it's a shame how closed-minded so many players have become on this topic simply because of the relatively few bad experiences they had in another game. There is plenty of room for a compromise that would work well and work for both sides of the issue. It's just proven to be very challenging to get individuals to set aside their egos long enough to discuss it intelligently.

 

I have not met many people at this forum here, who were really intrested in understanding why a LFG tool is not the ultimate solution if rushed.

 

Since January I gave many good examples for such a tool, hardly anyone cared.

 

Many still think that the wow tool was the ultimate thing and is the best content an MMO has ever received...

 

Also LFG tools could be limited to PvE servers only, so that RP and PvP could develop their own community.

 

Compromise is there, but in most cases not by the LFG pro faction.

[chaosdefined]

The bad community was already there long before the LFD tool came in.

 

There were videos on youtube weekly of someone who had pugged a raid, then when a legendary or epic dropped he ninja'd it.

 

There were many complaints of Guilds who would pug a few players then give them no loot at all during the raid.

 

The bad attitudes always existed. But because you're playing with a much larger pool of players, the chances of coming across a bad one were now higher. That's all it was. People didn't change because of the tool, the tool allowed you to see that there were more bad players on other servers.

 

We're also not saying copy the WoW tool exactly, we're saying take the idea of a cross-server tool and work on it to make it better.

[Meldwyn]

Compromise is there, but in most cases not by the LFG pro faction.

 

We believe in compromise, as long as you are the one doing it!

 

Just kidding. Actually, I am open to a cross server LFG for leveling only, as this is the most challenging for everyone. I am also in favor of having the tool make the choice of loot distribution based upon role and need, role determination (healer spec'd, you heal), kick policy, gear score (to make sure someone is at the proper level for the content), etc...

 

Lots of ways to do it and limit the possibility for abuse.

[Mezla]

The bad community was already there long before the LFD tool came in.

 

There were videos on youtube weekly of someone who had pugged a raid, then when a legendary or epic dropped he ninja'd it.

 

There were many complaints of Guilds who would pug a few players then give them no loot at all during the raid.

 

The bad attitudes always existed. But because you're playing with a much larger pool of players, the chances of coming across a bad one were now higher. That's all it was. People didn't change because of the tool, the tool allowed you to see that there were more bad players on other servers.

 

We're also not saying copy the WoW tool exactly, we're saying take the idea of a cross-server tool and work on it to make it better.

 

Higher total, because you just ran way more dungeons/raids every week, but % stayed the same.

Out of my 1500 or so LFG pugs since 3.3 I have to say 80% were nice and quick, 10% had some drama, 10% were absolute disaster.

I'd rather have that again, than what we have in SWTOR now.

[chaosdefined]

I mean I ran a Flashpoint the other day with a tank who was needing on everything, even gear that was no good to him. Couldn't kick him either as he was the group leader.

 

The current system is bad. We are definitely up for a compromise so long as it satisfies the majority of people. And currently, I'm willing to bet money that the majority of people don't care about 'community' or anything like that, they just want to experience the game they're paying for.

[Buddhalux]

I still don't understand why any x-server LFG is a bad idea. There's countless threads abotu peoples servers dying and no one to group with. Yet people still hold onto "it'll kill the community" line. If the server can't form a HM or Op then it has no community already. If you don't like the tool then no one is going to force you to use it so quit telling people no tool. I'm lucky that my server has a decent pop. I do work graveyard so I see it down in the teens during the wee hours of the morning. I would quit if it was like that the majority of the time. Why should anyone pay a monthly fee for a single player game experience?

[Valkirus]

I still don't understand why any x-server LFG is a bad idea. There's countless threads abotu peoples servers dying and no one to group with. Yet people still hold onto "it'll kill the community" line. If the server can't form a HM or Op then it has no community already. If you don't like the tool then no one is going to force you to use it so quit telling people no tool. I'm lucky that my server has a decent pop. I do work graveyard so I see it down in the teens during the wee hours of the morning. I would quit if it was like that the majority of the time. Why should anyone pay a monthly fee for a single player game experience?

 

You make some really good points. I think some who are against a cross server LFG tool are on high pop servers or in a active guild which does runs together and think there is no problem finding a group sence they don'nt have any. Others are ok with a server side one, but are not being realistic in expecting such a tool to work on low pop servers.

 

I still see it this way...if BioWare insists on having the LFG server side only for PVE then they will need to do several server merges in order for it to work well. If they donot want to merge servers then they have two choices.....create a cross server LFG tool or continue to lose subs.

You cannot expect players to pay the same sub fee and still not be able to do the end game content. I still think a cross server LFG tool is the way to go.

[chaosdefined]

You make some really good points. I think some who are against a cross server LFG tool are on high pop servers or in a active guild which does runs together and think there is no problem finding a group sence they don'nt have any. Others are ok with a server side one, but are not being realistic in expecting such a tool to work on low pop servers.

 

I still see it this way...if BioWare insists on having the LFG server side only for PVE then they will need to do several server merges in order for it to work well. If they donot want to merge servers then they have two choices.....create a cross server LFG tool or continue to lose subs.

You cannot expect players to pay the same sub fee and still not be able to do the end game content. I still think a cross server LFG tool is the way to go.

 

That's almost always the way though with anything at all. Those who don't need it, see it as unncessary, whereas those who actually need it see it as top priority.

 

The problem lies in those who aren't experiencing problems and can't see things from other peoples point of view.

 

It's like the saying goes, some people will refuse to believe in fire until you set them alight.