"Resolve is broken" challenge

[kweassa]

Actually, it is even better. Resolve before turning white decays at 25/sec after about 6 seconds since you were hit by last CC effect. To knock you back 6 times in the row, after first 2 times, that can be done back to back, you have to wait 6 sec + 400/25 sec = 22 seconds. It is probably better to just do third knockback, give target 1600 resolve and let it dacay, then you can knock hom back again 3 times;)

 

Thanks for the correction. Forgot to factor in the delay time before decay actually starts.

 

 

On a side note, we've had resolve-related posts for months, and it has always been the same.

 

People come in and start propagating systematically impossible myths, bluffs, lies, accusations... and then others have to join in to explain how much they are ignorant on how the system works. They argue the impossible, so we ask them to present proof (since if such things do happen, it is obviously a bug, since systematically impossible), and then they disappear.

 

The thread dies out, and then, after a few days, someone else starts the same thing all over again.

 

 

As if lies are repeated enough times it becomes the truth... sheesh...

[Kaarsa]

Thanks for the correction. Forgot to factor in the delay time before decay actually starts.

 

 

On a side note, we've had resolve-related posts for months, and it has always been the same.

 

People come in and start propagating systematically impossible myths, bluffs, lies, accusations... and then others have to join in to explain how much they are ignorant on how the system works. They argue the impossible, so we ask them to present proof (since if such things do happen, it is obviously a bug, since systematically impossible), and then they disappear.

 

The thread dies out, and then, after a few days, someone else starts the same thing all over again.

 

 

As if lies are repeated enough times it becomes the truth... sheesh...

 

Sad but true..well, we can now always link them here;)

[Torcer]

This thread is about technical aspect of resolve - ie. it is directed to those who claim that they have been stunned 5 times in the row. Not to those who think that resolve is not working as they wish it to work. Your accusation for "strawman" is therefore false. You posted your opinion about what resolve should do and how it should to it, I am asking for proof that it is not doing what it is currently programmed to do (ie. stop stuns, mezzes,knockbacks and pulls when it is filled).

 

Th)

 

No, my accusation that this thread is based on a Strawman is correct. By Strawman argument I mean that a position is created to argue against when no one actually has that position. I don’t doubt that you can find a handful of people to make an exaggerated claim that they were stunned five times in a row, but that isn’t what the vast majority of people who claim “Resolve is broken” are arguing. That’s why you’ve crated a Straw man, misstating a position you don’t agree with in order to argue against it, most people simply are not arguing that they’ve been stunned five times in a row with a full resolve bar.

 

Furthermore, you misstate your own position. Your OP issues a challenge for people to post a video of someone being stunned with a Full Resolve Bar; your OP does not limit your “Resolve is broken” challenge to five stuns in a row. I already explained why people think they are being stunned with a full resolve bar, i.e., their bar is nearly full, so it appears they are being stunned with full Resolve. Furthermore, Resolve begins to tick down while stunned, so if its timed right, people can get resolved again as soon as Resolve drops below 1,000. This is why there are chain stuns, and why people believe they are getting stunned with a full Resolve bar. Your entire argument is based on a technicality, a 99% full Resolve bar at 999 Resolve is technically not full, but it effectively is for the person stunned twice in row.

 

Diminishing returns, or a limited period of immunity are possible solutions.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Torcer

[Kaarsa]

N

I already explained why people think they are being stunned with a full resolve bar, i.e., their bar is nearly full, so it appears they are being stunned with full Resolve. Furthermore, Resolve begins to tick down while stunned, so if its timed right, people can get resolved again as soon as Resolve drops below 1,000.

 

Since this quote proves you dont have a slight idea about how resolve works, I will answer to your strawman arguments after you decide to educate yourself. Discussing with someone who has no clue what he is talking about is pointless.

[Appletaz]

To all of you who insist I have your vocabulary and terminology and feel that you just can't have a conversation with me because of it, well, learn to adapt. If you really want a real conversation or just an elite conversation? Let me know next time and I will research terms so you are not boggled.

 

I guess my point about all this is that Resolve is an excuse that BW put into the game because some developer convinced everyone else that PvP based within how well you can CC another person into oblivion is the name of the game. I don't know about you, but I've played games where PvP is based on players actually battling each other and not simply incapacitating them and beating them to death. And without a viable "cleanse" type of ability that can be used by, say, healers or the like [without a cooldown or a sec cooldown maybe], it can be used and abused, as it is in this game.

 

So just to support the Resolve system like it is this brilliant counter to CCs, my argument is that I would like to see PvP be about MORE than CCs and more about teamwork and skill. To tell me my whole problem is that I have to learn how to use the Resolve system to its best advantage, that is to tell me that PvP is all about that. And you don't find anything wrong with that? Well, it leaves me open to finding some other game that treats PvP with a little respect and not reduces it to a stun/root lock. Yes, I know, please shut the door on my way out.

[heinywb]

Its not just being stunned when you have a white resolve bar ticking down and id argue that this is the less common occurrence. What happens more often is you catch the cc that turns your bar white, and before the 2 secs(or how ever long it is til the white bar starts to tick down) is up, you get stunned again which seems to reset that 2 sec wait til the white bar starts to tick. as long as u cc before the white bar starts to tick down, it works on the player being cc'd. whether or not this can be done indefinitely, i dont know but can happen more than once. most ppl are dead after a couple of these. it seems to occur most when ur carrying the huttball as you are focussed wtih cc's.

 

as to getting stunned with a white bar ticking down, its probably happened less than 5 times in all the matches ive played (VR 82). but what does happen a lot is you get rooted and you can appear stunned since u cant move....maybe ppl are mistaking a root for a stun. roots arent on the resolve system.

[Soul_of_Flames]

I have 3 characters. 2 Republic and 1 Imp. It might just be me, but I noticed my resolve builds a lot faster on my Imp than on either of my Rep's.

 

With my Jedi & Trooper, I'm constantly stunned or pulled/pushed, slowed, etc and my bar is always nowhere near full. However with my Hunter, I get pushed once and my bar fills completely.

 

Now, again this could just be my mind playing tricks on me, but before I made an imp, I've never noticed my resolve bar actually full when I'm in combat.

[Caelrie]

Color me just oh so shocked that NOT A SINGLE ONE of the dozens of people who claim resolve doesn't work could come up with a single video as proof.

[Kaarsa]

Its not just being stunned when you have a white resolve bar ticking down and id argue that this is the less common occurrence. What happens more often is you catch the cc that turns your bar white, and before the 2 secs(or how ever long it is til the white bar starts to tick down) is up, you get stunned again which seems to reset that 2 sec wait til the white bar starts to tick. as long as u cc before the white bar starts to tick down, it works on the player being cc'd. whether or not this can be done indefinitely, i dont know but can happen more than once. most ppl are dead after a couple of these. it seems to occur most when ur carrying the huttball as you are focussed wtih cc's.

 

as to getting stunned with a white bar ticking down, its probably happened less than 5 times in all the matches ive played (VR 82). but what does happen a lot is you get rooted and you can appear stunned since u cant move....maybe ppl are mistaking a root for a stun. roots arent on the resolve system.

 

I agree about second part - when you dont pay attention you may think you are stunned when you are rooted, but it is not resolve problem, it is player problem.

 

About first part - I am not sure what you mean I am afraid (english is not my first language, which is easily noticable I think:))

 

I have 3 characters. 2 Republic and 1 Imp. It might just be me, but I noticed my resolve builds a lot faster on my Imp than on either of my Rep's.

 

With my Jedi & Trooper, I'm constantly stunned or pulled/pushed, slowed, etc and my bar is always nowhere near full. However with my Hunter, I get pushed once and my bar fills completely.

 

Now, again this could just be my mind playing tricks on me, but before I made an imp, I've never noticed my resolve bar actually full when I'm in combat.

 

Well, here

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=390716

 

me and my friend tested some republic and empire CC abilities and it looks like they follow the same pattern. Our observations do not confirm yours. If you have some spare time, I encourage you to test CC abilities we didnt and post results in linked thread, I will incorporate them into my OP.

 

 

To all of you who insist I have your vocabulary and terminology and feel that you just can't have a conversation with me because of it, well, learn to adapt. If you really want a real conversation or just an elite conversation? Let me know next time and I will research terms so you are not boggled.

 

I guess my point about all this is that Resolve is an excuse that BW put into the game because some developer convinced everyone else that PvP based within how well you can CC another person into oblivion is the name of the game. I don't know about you, but I've played games where PvP is based on players actually battling each other and not simply incapacitating them and beating them to death. And without a viable "cleanse" type of ability that can be used by, say, healers or the like [without a cooldown or a sec cooldown maybe], it can be used and abused, as it is in this game.

 

So just to support the Resolve system like it is this brilliant counter to CCs, my argument is that I would like to see PvP be about MORE than CCs and more about teamwork and skill. To tell me my whole problem is that I have to learn how to use the Resolve system to its best advantage, that is to tell me that PvP is all about that. And you don't find anything wrong with that? Well, it leaves me open to finding some other game that treats PvP with a little respect and not reduces it to a stun/root lock. Yes, I know, please shut the door on my way out.

 

All MMOs have a lot of CC. They have to, because otherwise they turn into FPS without twitch abilities and this is extremaly boring. In SW TOR, thanks to resolve system, you cannot be stuned for more than 8 seconds in the row. If you die in that time, it means you are focused by enemy team without support from your team. With fairly unique guard mechanic, just CCing and focusing 1 target is not enough to kill it during those 8 seconds (it is easily proven by being a ballcarrier in more or less coordinated team).

 

My point is that focusing and CCing target is countered by guards and healing. If you mostly PUG, chances are focus CC/fire will not be countered for you, but it is yet again, not a resolve problem.

[kantnerfme]

Ok, I want to throw a gauntlet to all supporters of opinion that resolve is broken.

 

Please post a vid or link to a vid where someone is affected by stun or mezz or knockback or pull while having white resolve bar.

 

By affected I mean - hit by new one, one that filled resolve bar SHOULD work.

 

If you will get me a vid, we can then ask BW to fix it.

 

If not, I am going to direct all resolve-complainers here.

 

One more time, get me a vid or stop QQ about resolve please.

 

EDIT:

 

after 16 pages of discussion about resolve, diminishing returns, roots, slows, huttball and game developing no one posted a vid showing that resolve is not working as intented.

 

Therefore, it is working as intended. You may not like how it works, but it working fine.

 

Still waiting for video proof that it is otherwise.

 

Resolve might not work sometimes but it is not a often issue.

I won't spend hours of video recording to capture that moment simple to prove that it is happening.

If it didn't happen to you then you can be glad.

I'm having several questions about balance on this game but still i'm not sure to answer if it is me or there is an actual unbalance on classes.

 

Fact:

i sometimes get stuck can't use any skills for several seconds and i don't have any dispells on me. could be my keyboard disfuction with the client , etc.

 

I truly believe that once you notice something is wrong to report so the devs can investigate further.

 

I have recently found out in 1 wz which i didn't heal my self at all noir i have passive healing specs, i end up with 33k healing reward.

[Appletaz]

All MMOs have a lot of CC. They have to, because otherwise they turn into FPS without twitch abilities and this is extremaly boring. In SW TOR, thanks to resolve system, you cannot be stuned for more than 8 seconds in the row. If you die in that time, it means you are focused by enemy team without support from your team. With fairly unique guard mechanic, just CCing and focusing 1 target is not enough to kill it during those 8 seconds (it is easily proven by being a ballcarrier in more or less coordinated team).

 

My point is that focusing and CCing target is countered by guards and healing. If you mostly PUG, chances are focus CC/fire will not be countered for you, but it is yet again, not a resolve problem.

 

Actually, even though they have CCs in other MMOs there is a counter to them, and that is a cleanse skill that can be used easily and often... so the CC simply slows the opponent down and does not fully incapacitate them without reprisal.

[Darth_Philar]

Actually, even though they have CCs in other MMOs there is a counter to them, and that is a cleanse skill that can be used easily and often... so the CC simply slows the opponent down and does not fully incapacitate them without reprisal.

 

The Resolve system is infinitely superior to those DR systems as it requires skill to use while DR is just a numbers game.

 

Once you learn how Resolve actually works you can make it work for you, both offensively and defensively.

 

It really boils down to a L2P issue (I really hate that term, but in this case it is quite applicable).

 

EDIT: Also, there is a Cleanse in this game as well. Ask your local Sage/Sorcerer if it is keybound (mine is on my mouse).

Edited April 4, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[HanzBlix]

Color me just oh so shocked that NOT A SINGLE ONE of the dozens of people who claim resolve doesn't work could come up with a single video as proof.

 

It works as intended, which is dumb. Being able to be stun locked and killed without being able to push a button at all at any point is simply fail, and it happens WAY TOO MUCH. Dying without being able to make any attempt at survival is not a good system.

 

Make the stun break when the resolve bar is full is the way to fix this.

 

Let me guess, you're a smuggler or op? I know those two classes certainly don't want any changes to the way it currently works.

[Kaarsa]

Actually, even though they have CCs in other MMOs there is a counter to them, and that is a cleanse skill that can be used easily and often... so the CC simply slows the opponent down and does not fully incapacitate them without reprisal.

 

And your counter to multiple opponents focusing you would be? If you die in 8 sec while CCed, how long do you expect to live while not CCed? Defensive CD? Is it to hard to use them before engaging overhelming number of foes, when you anticipate being CCed?

 

Most people who said resolve is broken because you can be chain stunned seems to miss a point. You call 8 sec a chain stun? It is a childs play. And to be stunned (stunned, not mezzed) for 8 seconds, you have to be targeted by multiple opponents. You are ment to die in this scenario if you dont have help from your teamates. Force jumping into pack of 4 enemies alone means you will be chain CCed and killed before you can even react. In no MMO you can do that and succeed.

 

Stunned by 1 opponent? Since stuns (with exception of operative alpha strike;)) deal pitiful damage, your enemy has 2 GCD advantage over you. You seriously die to 2 GCD? You have bigger problems than resolve.

 

To be honest, quite often CCing 1 guy (healer) and killing the other guy (tank) is much better idea than CCing and trying to kill only 1 of them.

 

I am afraid this is well above skill cap of average PUG team, which is not helping the situation - since in average game strategical use of CC just dont happen, it is simple stun and kill tactic, people on receiving end are annoyed. Tough luck, dont get caught next time.

 

Common term L2P in this situation does not only mean "learn how resolve work" but "dont try to be a rambo" too.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Kaarsa

[HanzBlix]

Most people who said resolve is broken because you can be chain stunned seems to miss a point. You call 8 sec a chain stun? It is a childs play. And to be stunned (stunned, not mezzed) for 8 seconds, you have to be targeted by multiple opponents. You are ment to die in this scenario if you dont have help from your teamates. Force jumping into pack of 4 enemies alone means you will be chain CCed and killed before you can even react. In no MMO you can do that and succeed.

 

 

60% of the Pubs on my server (I'm Imp) play smugglers. The good ones can kill me before I can even react, even if my stun break is up. Your argument here is BS. This is on either my sorcerer or sniper. There are three good ones in particular that run together, one is basically impossible to stop, all three is lights out for anyone or anything.

 

The resolve system is flawed. In no game should any class be able to kill you without you pushing a single button before dead PERIOD.

[Appletaz]

There is no point to discussing this with you who think that Resolve is "superior" -- You are missing MY point, which is that pvp should be player vs. player and not player vs. CC.

 

The Resolve system just sanctions CC as the tool of PvP and that is the only skill that is needed: When/who u stun, who/when you slow/root, who/when u kickback, when to use your release skill ... that's is the core of SWTOR pvp.

 

In other words this is the ANTI pvp game... "how often can I prevent my opponent from actually pvping with me" and whoever can, wins.

 

I prefer CC to be used sparingly and only when needed for a quick retreat and the battle to be pursued more often. That is why the PvP system in SWTOR is not for me. And you will never convince me that CC + Resolve is the greatest pvp system there is. It is also why warzones/battlegrounds, whatever you want to call them, should only be diversions and not the focus of pvp in a game.

 

Like I said, this game's pvp system is not about warfare or battles for anything of importance or skill in using your classes fortes, just who can incapacitate the other side more often and whoever does, wins.

[Kaarsa]

There is no point to discussing this with you who think that Resolve is "superior" -- You are missing MY point, which is that pvp should be player vs. player and not player vs. CC.

 

The Resolve system just sanctions CC as the tool of PvP and that is the only skill that is needed: When/who u stun, who/when you slow/root, who/when u kickback, when to use your release skill ... that's is the core of SWTOR pvp.

 

In other words this is the ANTI pvp game... "how often can I prevent my opponent from actually pvping with me" and whoever can, wins.

 

I prefer CC to be used sparingly and only when needed for a quick retreat and the battle to be pursued more often. That is why the PvP system in SWTOR is not for me. And you will never convince me that CC + Resolve is the greatest pvp system there is. It is also why warzones/battlegrounds, whatever you want to call them, should only be diversions and not the focus of pvp in a game.

 

Like I said, this game's pvp system is not about warfare or battles for anything of importance or skill in using your classes fortes, just who can incapacitate the other side more often and whoever does, wins.

 

Looks like you think that most important ability in pvp is to execute perfect damage/healing rotation and since CC make it difficult, there should be no or little of CC.

 

I understand that ability to remember that your perfect rotation is 13532553 for example is more important that deciding who to CC, when to CC and how to CC.

 

I rest my case then, because I think PVP is not PVE.

 

Maybe I dont understand your point still, but I think we will just have to agree to disagree.

[Scoobings]

It works as intended, which is dumb. Being able to be stun locked and killed without being able to push a button at all at any point is simply fail, and it happens WAY TOO MUCH. Dying without being able to make any attempt at survival is not a good system.

 

Make the stun break when the resolve bar is full is the way to fix this.

 

Let me guess, you're a smuggler or op? I know those two classes certainly don't want any changes to the way it currently works.

 

I can honestly say that I don't think I've ever died without being able to move unless I put myself into some really god-awful positioning, where I ended up being wailed on by 3 or more people. I'm not even in full battlemaster either. I'm in mostly champion.

 

Maybe that happened a couple times when I was a fresh 50 on my alt. In this game you get punished heavily for making stupid plays. Solution: Don't make stupid plays.

[Elwacko]

Resol...................................................ve.............. sometimes is your...............................................lag not showin.................g................. a full .................. *DC*

[Scoobings]

Resol...................................................ve.............. sometimes is your...............................................lag not showin.................g................. a full .................. *DC*

 

Great. Now we'll never know what he was trying to say.

[Noctournys]

Actually, even though they have CCs in other MMOs there is a counter to them, and that is a cleanse skill that can be used easily and often... so the CC simply slows the opponent down and does not fully incapacitate them without reprisal.

 

This is so patently false its eye-bleeding bad, especially given how the CCs are used in those games (hint: usually you use them ON the cleanser, so he's parked while you turn the fight into a 3v2 and exterminate his friends)

 

It's pretty easy to spend a full 20-30 seconds with no control over your character against a good PvP team in, say, WoW.

 

Resolve works fine.

[Noctournys]

60% of the Pubs on my server (I'm Imp) play smugglers. The good ones can kill me before I can even react, even if my stun break is up. Your argument here is BS. This is on either my sorcerer or sniper. There are three good ones in particular that run together, one is basically impossible to stop, all three is lights out for anyone or anything.

 

The resolve system is flawed. In no game should any class be able to kill you without you pushing a single button before dead PERIOD.

 

apparently all of the rather miniscule number of smugglers/operatives are on your server, then... because it is the second-least-played AC in the entire game - just barely ahead of Gunslinger/Sniper.

[Scoobings]

apparently all of the rather miniscule number of smugglers/operatives are on your server, then... because it is the second-least-played AC in the entire game - just barely ahead of Gunslinger/Sniper.

 

Nuh uh! The last numbers I saw showed Vanguard/powertech as the lowest!

[Appletaz]

This is so patently false its eye-bleeding bad, especially given how the CCs are used in those games (hint: usually you use them ON the cleanser, so he's parked while you turn the fight into a 3v2 and exterminate his friends)

 

It's pretty easy to spend a full 20-30 seconds with no control over your character against a good PvP team in, say, WoW.

 

Resolve works fine.

 

I never played WoW. So I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

But I have played other games where CC was not the objective. In the games I have played other people in your party or on your side can also dispel any CC from you, and that was part of the teamwork that happened in PvP in those games. So chances were that you may be incapacitated for a bit but not all that long. We have different experiences.

 

For me, Resolve is just a bad attempt to counter CC, and that is because CC is the dominant PvP skill in this game, which makes all your other skills a joke.

 

You prefer it; I think it ruins pvp because it makes it ONLY about CC and getting out of it.

[LenrocNewDawn]

Some games have a play style while others another. If you like light sabers and wookies you might want to try and learn how this game plays. There is no reason to make this similar with other games you've played (some will yell it already is). Diversity is a good thing it gives you choices if you don't like this or the other.

All in all, the challenge is still unmet despite of people telling stories about the big bad CC monsters.