So the PvP is moving back to 2006 =/

[Tic-]

So you basically want to win because you have better numbers and not because of skill or tactics?

 

I've had much better times eventually losing a defended keep against superior numbers, all the while using great tactics and skill to keep them at bay as long as possible, than I typically do in winning another instance of "kill the guy with the thing".

 

To each his own...

 

/shrug

Edited March 24, 2012 by Tic-

[Bocherel]

I am sorry, I cant get more old school than DIKU Muds. Which WZ is 2 feet square? and which is an arena style again? Man all this time I've been playing the WZs I thought they were objective based, not arena style.

 

What's unpredictable in world pvp? Stealthers camping, and zergfest that comes down to pull push focus fire. Or maybe you enjoy grouping with your buddies and go out to ganghunt questers. Grow up and actually learn 2 pvp in the WZs. I've been in countless 10-20+ vs 10-20+ in illum. There is absolutely no skill or fun in a zerg fest.

 

Can World PvP turn into objective based, of course, but then you are back playing the same thing you started to complain about, and the difference is coming and going as you please.

 

Haha, talk about a carebear

 

Yup, looks like your experience was limited to some mud, that's about it because you for sure know sh*t about world pvp

 

keep crying about your safe enclosed WZ, it's just as boring as your post.

[Bocherel]

 

5) Open World PvP is for noobs and people who dislike a fair fight.

 

It's quite the contrary as it is not fair to be the same number when half of your opponents can't count to potato, they need some more people to help them die faster.

 

I love all the unskilled sheep crying about "fairness" when there's not even such a thing

[Yescek]

........I love all the unskilled sheep crying about "fairness" when there's not even such a thing

 

You should probably give credit where credit is due, not everyone is unskilled sheep.

 

On the flipside, yeah, fairness is a dead concept. There will always be that group of *****s who rolls around in a full ops group 100% of the time, not coming out unless they have the numbers. Who, regardless of what skill they may or may not have, faceroll everything short of an equally stacked group of more skilled players. That's reality, you'll never get away from people who do everything in their power to stack the odds in their favor. You can make whatever excuses you want, but the fact remains that Open World PvP will never be deliberatly balanced.

 

At least to me, that's the appeal.

 

I don't want to know if we're going to win or not before the battle even begins. Part of the thrill I get out of PvP is the unpredictability of it. PvE is bland and boring in my opinion, you learn the mechanics, get the gear, and you can increase your odds of winning until it no longer matters.

 

In PvP, this is only the case to a certain extent. There will always be that X factor of "What's the other guy gonna do?" that you just can't calculate. You can get close, but it's still a unique experience most of the time. I find that fun. In Open World, you can almost NEVER predict the numbers, and trying is just discouraging.

 

My apologies to those that don't have friends, but if I was to come across a large group of SF's out in the wild (please forgive the SWG terminology, 4 years of it is a hard habit to break) and get pwnt, I'm calling for the guild to come help. I know plenty of us that still hang out on Ilum and on Tatooine to try and spark fights simply for the fun of fighting. PvP doesn't really need rewards in my mind. It's not a means to and end for me, it IS an end.

 

I've probably strayed off topic here, but the fact remains that Open World will never be dead so long as you have the initiative to go find it. Yeah, sometimes you get beaten to the point of giving up and sometimes you hand out beatdowns all day long, but the fact remains that the whole point is to have fun doing it.

 

TL;DR - If you're not having fun, you're wasting your time. Open World isn't for everyone, and for those of us that it IS for will probably have a blast once they fully fix Ilum and in the interim we'll have a blast anyways with the few fights we CAN get.

 

Edit: Warzones are still awesome though.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Yescek

[PatrickTheLama]

What I don't understand is why they only designed 3 warzones for the launch? Can't be that challenging a task for the developers...

 

I'm not overly interested in PvP as it seems to attract too many people with the attitude of a sociopathic 14 year-old, but must admit the two WZ (I skip Huttball) in SWTOR so far have piqued my interest. Looking forward to the next one.

[Bocherel]

You should probably give credit where credit is due, not everyone is unskilled sheep.

 

On the flipside, yeah, fairness is a dead concept. There will always be that group of *****s who rolls around in a full ops group 100% of the time, not coming out unless they have the numbers. Who, regardless of what skill they may or may not have, faceroll everything short of an equally stacked group of more skilled players. That's reality, you'll never get away from people who do everything in their power to stack the odds in their favor. You can make whatever excuses you want, but the fact remains that Open World PvP will never be deliberatly balanced.

 

At least to me, that's the appeal.

 

I don't want to know if we're going to win or not before the battle even begins. Part of the thrill I get out of PvP is the unpredictability of it. PvE is bland and boring in my opinion, you learn the mechanics, get the gear, and you can increase your odds of winning until it no longer matters.

 

In PvP, this is only the case to a certain extent. There will always be that X factor of "What's the other guy gonna do?" that you just can't calculate. You can get close, but it's still a unique experience most of the time. I find that fun. In Open World, you can almost NEVER predict the numbers, and trying is just discouraging.

 

My apologies to those that don't have friends, but if I was to come across a large group of SF's out in the wild (please forgive the SWG terminology, 4 years of it is a hard habit to break) and get pwnt, I'm calling for the guild to come help. I know plenty of us that still hang out on Ilum and on Tatooine to try and spark fights simply for the fun of fighting. PvP doesn't really need rewards in my mind. It's not a means to and end for me, it IS an end.

 

I've probably strayed off topic here, but the fact remains that Open World will never be dead so long as you have the initiative to go find it. Yeah, sometimes you get beaten to the point of giving up and sometimes you hand out beatdowns all day long, but the fact remains that the whole point is to have fun doing it.

 

TL;DR - If you're not having fun, you're wasting your time. Open World isn't for everyone, and for those of us that it IS for will probably have a blast once they fully fix Ilum and in the interim we'll have a blast anyways with the few fights we CAN get.

 

Edit: Warzones are still awesome though.

100% agreed.

 

Great post.

 

I was just poking fun at the two guys who are making a misrepresentation of what world pvp is and who are bashing others for what they like; I personally like WZ but doing the same 3 WZ over and over is boring at some point.

 

If you're a fellow SWG player, and played during preCU then you'd know numbers didn't mean sh*t BTW.

 

Even if they were equally skilled only one bad player in their group would f*ck up everything (getting back knocked down targets, putting area dots on warcry'd targets, etc)

 

Anyway SWTOR doesn't have game mechanics made for large battle PVP, it's not designed that way but they should find a couple features to make the world pvp lover happy imo

[Scudmungus]

Welcome fellow True Open Beta Testers!

 

Let us fund this testing process, together!

 

approx £8.00/month!

 

To think, someone folks are paid to test games!

Edited March 25, 2012 by Scudmungus

[FourTwent]

no matter how low the fps was. i do miss ilum

[yukirshiro]

If you believed their line of nonsense about how they had "stunning open world PVP" and how PVP was going to be a focus of the game, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you...

 

P.S. BW make PVE games. They will happily take your money each month if you want to give it to them but don't expect them to respect or pay attention to you for it.

 

PVP is very much the lowest priority in this game.

[FoxNemhauser]

Also, world PvP is not half as fun as it sounds. It usually involves having to wait for more people and zerging a minor group with low FPS. I dont see whats so appealing about it.

The only reason i did world PvP in Illum was for the daily and weekly bags, and most often i wouldnt even bother cause it involves incredible ammounts of waiting around for the opposite faction and so on and forth.

 

Sorry to say, but World PvP is boring.

 

Or rather World PvP is boring in the games you've played.

 

 

There was a grindy (or semi grindy) korean mmo that was also westernized and the name of it was DEKARON and it had great open world pvp.

 

There were no factions and except the starting zones you could attack anyone.

 

There were of course guilds so various guilds were in war with each other and some had formed alliances.

 

 

Not much to do PvE wise (couple of dungeons) so if anyone needed help (because he was being attacked) - lots of people rushed to help and it could quickly escalate to a big fight and various allied guilds would join in.

 

And it was easy to start such things - there were no quests so you were mostly killing mobs, and there were of course some better grinding spots and people would fight over them.

 

And if you saw enemy players groupping up for a dungeon? Even if they were lower levels - you would usually go and try to kill them :-)

 

 

On top of that the dueling system was not blocked in main locations (why SWTOR, oh why?) and you could also duel as a team (would teleport you to an arena) so you could practice your skills.

 

 

Open PvP in SWTOR is a joke, people do it because they want to get their daily/weekly done and then to farm some valor. So they group up and zerg because it's most efficient.

 

In DEKARON you get no rewards for your kills, except seeing cries of the fallen enemies, which IMHO was so much better. Hell, sometimes you could even made the enemy player leave his guild :-) (and no, there was no spawn camp, you always spawned in the safe zone, and traveling to non safe zone was always with 30 sec of immunity so no such crap like camp spawning in this game).

 

 

The pvp wasn't perfect there but it was so much better than any other mmo game that i've tried.

Edited March 25, 2012 by FoxNemhauser

[Wyrdstar]

Bros.

 

 

 

5) Open World PvP is for noobs and people who dislike a fair fight.

 

 

So WoW was your first mmo ?

[hargrave]

I have to agree with op. Do they seriously expect people to do warzones for months or until they "revamp" ilum which im not sure will be any time soon myself.

 

The reason their was no meaningful open pvp in the first place is b/c they thought what they had on ilum was "meaningful" it was never tested in beta there was never a ilum test night all the high lvl characters in beta were for end game pve testing. So you had ilum sitting thier and never tested until basically 1.1 patch (which i reported in beta about the turrets back then)

 

 

Ive been on the test server the custom ui is nice but all i can think is *** did this take a year or more to do? 6 months ago in beta its all anyone talked about. I still dont get how this is considered an update/game content lol.

 

That new armor set is god aweful and they dont seem to want to change it despite 100 page plus thread about how sh#t it looks. My opnion is their view is of if you dont like it just rip the mods out and put it in something else lol. No justification for crappy armor design

 

As a open world pvp'r 1.2 offers me nothing and takes away open world. So ill see how 1.2 is but my gut is will unsub and play something else what im not sure lotro is sh#t sto is sh#t dcuo is sh^t i cant see paying 30 bucks for 2 accounts where i barely log in now as it is.

 

I do hope they fix the open world and that they do revamp ilum but even if they do heres the problem still.

 

Thier needs to be open world pvp bases on other planets (this will thin out the fights and fix imbalance somewhat) I dont see this happening as they cant even get ilum right in the first place.

 

Faction imbalance - They dont want to tackle this head on from what ive seen. The legacy system will not solve imbalance even if it did it would be 1% or less. The rep side storyline is a pos and it sucks in general

 

Gear fiasco - I still dont know whats going on gear wise lol.

 

So if u enjoy playing pureblood sith jedis/smugglers have it lorebreak away!

 

Gabe is a liar i dont trust him. James ohlen thinks we have the best pvp team yet we have no open world pvp and warzones that are hack/exploiters heaven. Id like to be positive but i see a lot of pr and the legacy system is just fluff to keep you alting due to lack of end game. Well i could go make 200 toons no matter what it wont solve the end game.

 

5 years people have waited for this and this where we are 5 years and still waiting for open world pvp and a custom ui bieng sold as a content update lol come on guys...

Edited March 25, 2012 by hargrave

[Bocherel]

Or rather World PvP is boring in the games you've played.

 

 

There was a grindy (or semi grindy) korean mmo that was also westernized and the name of it was DEKARON and it had great open world pvp.

 

There were no factions and except the starting zones you could attack anyone.

 

There were of course guilds so various guilds were in war with each other and some had formed alliances.

 

 

Not much to do PvE wise (couple of dungeons) so if anyone needed help (because he was being attacked) - lots of people rushed to help and it could quickly escalate to a big fight and various allied guilds would join in.

 

And it was easy to start such things - there were no quests so you were mostly killing mobs, and there were of course some better grinding spots and people would fight over them.

 

And if you saw enemy players groupping up for a dungeon? Even if they were lower levels - you would usually go and try to kill them :-)

 

 

On top of that the dueling system was not blocked in main locations (why SWTOR, oh why?) and you could also duel as a team (would teleport you to an arena) so you could practice your skills.

 

 

Open PvP in SWTOR is a joke, people do it because they want to get their daily/weekly done and then to farm some valor. So they group up and zerg because it's most efficient.

 

In DEKARON you get no rewards for your kills, except seeing cries of the fallen enemies, which IMHO was so much better. Hell, sometimes you could even made the enemy player leave his guild :-) (and no, there was no spawn camp, you always spawned in the safe zone, and traveling to non safe zone was always with 30 sec of immunity so no such crap like camp spawning in this game).

 

 

The pvp wasn't perfect there but it was so much better than any other mmo game that i've tried.

Sounds a lot like Lineage2, one of the greatest PVP game I've experienced; only downside of L2 was the insane grind IMO

[EchoTwoOmega]

open world PVP (in pretty much any game) suffers from 2 major problems.

 

1. The zerg. When you cant fight just over run them with numbers.

And there was much QQ over population balance issues.

And there was much QQ about too many people on my screen and my low FPS makes the game unplayable.

 

2. Objective trading. No one actually bothers with PVP they simpy trade objectives just to farm whatever reward they can get.

And there was much QQ about how ad the open world PVP was designed.

 

 

Sorry, cant avoid those issues.

[hargrave]

If thier was pvp bases on other planets besides ilum i really think it would thin the fights out. The main issue was ilum was all thier was and nowhere else. So its ilum or warzones now its just warzones. I hope the open world pvp is brought on a galactic scale b/c if its still just ilum then were screwed. The only other solution is to revamp rep side and get bleepin wookies in the game already but i dont see that happening

[TryonPayne]

I thinka game without meaningful world pvp is a fail.

 

agree! I understand what you PVE ppl are thinking but if you have something that you put in a game such as a pvp server and the only real way that you can actually play is by going into a WZ what is the point to being on the server? If you had PVE but the only way you could PVE was going to an instance wouldn't you be upset too?

[Tic-]

open world PVP (in pretty much any game) suffers from 2 major problems.

 

1. The zerg. When you cant fight just over run them with numbers.

And there was much QQ over population balance issues.

And there was much QQ about too many people on my screen and my low FPS makes the game unplayable.

 

Its difficult, if not impossibe to to stop, but there are a few ways to try and minimize minimize it.

 

Three factions to start, also, spread out objectives, give slight bonuses to lower populations etc. Its been discussed at length here, and other message boards. But developers keep making the common mistakes. I'm not a developer, and certainly not one of the 'most experienced in the world', but DAoC gets pretty good mentions, and that was some 10 years ago?

 

You'd think by now, we might have some devs that could expand upon that, work with it, refine it.. Sadly, they keep expanding on the same ol regurgatated game, trying to recapture some brass ring.

 

I've had a ton of fun defending my factions keep against superior numbers. Its a lot more "epic" than another game of "kill the guy with the thing".

 

2. Objective trading. No one actually bothers with PVP they simpy trade objectives just to farm whatever reward they can get.

And there was much QQ about how ad the open world PVP was designed.

 

 

Sorry, cant avoid those issues.

 

Stop rewarding the individual, and reward the faction for world PvP. Maybe get some faction pride back in MMOs?

 

Blashemy i know. Who's going to fight if they can't possibly get their next BiS?

 

The biggest problem i think, is its so easy to make another 8v8 game of capture the flag, and people gobble it up. Why would developers take a chance trying to make something as big or "epic" as open world pvp in a massively online game?

 

Slap a new tier of gear on a new instance pvp mini game, and you have the "next gen of PvP".

 

great.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Tic-

[Jrovak]

it like Unreal tournament but yu need to finish the solo campaign to participate in the Pvp maps

Huttball recycle capture the flag with 1 map

Unreal tournament had like 3 4 good ones

Capture and control the nodes was also in UT

also many more maps

 

and it didn't cost 15$ a month and was a truly skilled FPS

 

UT 2003-2004 was a better game than this 10 years ago

Edited March 25, 2012 by Jrovak

[PloGreen]

When 1.2 hits BW have not made open world (on any planet) worth anything, you still get nothing for PvPing anywhere but WZ, and they killed Ilum as well.

 

So basically, you stripping down PvP to only be something you can do in a WZ. You had a broken Ilum, but instead of atleast letting it run till you came up with something better, or letting people get commendations or valor anywhere, you shut it down.

 

So all in all, you moved back PvP to bare WZs. Cept for the story, this game could have come out in 2006. I really thought you guys would make better decisions then this.

 

Ilum is a total car crash so thats why they redesigning it. Its simply too big for one thing.

 

I would personally have love to see ilum blown to hell by a death star at some point. The client also does not like world pvp that much.

 

Warzones are great, more of them are a good thing. Even number of players per team for one thing.

[dlaselle]

If you don't like then game instead of QQ about how bad PVP is when Bioware main focus is PVE which they said from the beginning. Hence the reason why they spent all the money in voice acting instead of 10 WZ.

 

Here my suggestion either play the game for what it is, or quit.

 

QQ will get you no where.

[Carbonated]

Ah I remember when people pvp'd for fun, no gear or anything. it was done in packs, it was fun, it lasted hours. Didn't need a reason to do it. Just did it for the challenge and enjoyment.

 

Now people expect loot, titles and reasons.

[Jrovak]

YES ME! I found the cancel sub button!

WOOOhOOoooO!

[Tic-]

If you don't like then game instead of QQ about how bad PVP is when Bioware main focus is PVE which they said from the beginning. Hence the reason why they spent all the money in voice acting instead of 10 WZ.

 

Here my suggestion either play the game for what it is, or quit.

 

QQ will get you no where.

 

Yea, what were we thinking when they said PvP was going to be a big focus for the developers, or that Ilum was going to blow us away. Or how they had some of the most experienced PvP developers in the world on their team..

 

We should have never believed them.

[Tic-]

Ah I remember when people pvp'd for fun, no gear or anything. it was done in packs, it was fun, it lasted hours. Didn't need a reason to do it. Just did it for the challenge and enjoyment.

 

Now people expect loot, titles and reasons.

 

I remember the same for PvE.

 

People demand more from their games, and you make it sound like a bad thing.

[TheNotorius]

For me, instanced PvP is way better than world pvp which is just mindless zerg.

 

It's more skill based because it's an even match, so it's more fun for me.

 

Of course my "vision of PvP" is different from others, who may think that world pvp with random battles is more fun (but less competitive).