When can we expect to see a nerf of the Hybrid Sin/Shadow?

[Darth_Acherus]

A tank spec and 2 dps specs?

 

2 Crappy dps specs.

[HyperThomas]

31 points in kinetic is not a hybrid..

 

Thats is why I put it in quotation marks. It is what people are commonly calling it.

[Exilim]

There are a lot of bad players out there. On my Centurion geared Arsenal merc alt I've constantly taken out the server's top Shadows while defending a turret with another similarly gimp character. Yes winning 2 on 1 isn't saying much either and almost invariably one of the two defenders will die, but there's no way even the top Shadow/Assassin should be able to reliably win 1 on 2 if you know how to fight the class. Note that a top Shadow/Assassin can reliably stall for a very long time in 1on2 or worse odds, but that's not the same as winning.

 

This bolded part is incorrect. SWTOR PvP is objective based PvP. Stalling for certain amounts of time can mean winning or losing these warzones. Holding off at doors, or turret controls, surviving long enough to run the Huttball. Either killing or stalling long enough, they both win matches.

[AetherMcLoud]

This bolded part is incorrect. SWTOR PvP is objective based PvP. Stalling for certain amounts of time can mean winning or losing these warzones. Holding off at doors, or turret controls, surviving long enough to run the Huttball. Either killing or stalling long enough, they both win matches.

 

EVERY TANK CAN STALL LONG ENOUGH FOR REINFORCEMENTS TO ARRIVE. It's the nature of a tank spec.

[Redmarx]

2 Crappy dps specs.

 

So, just like mercs, sorcs, operatives, and marauders.

[JackMinn]

EVERY TANK CAN STALL LONG ENOUGH FOR REINFORCEMENTS TO ARRIVE. It's the nature of a tank spec.

 

No other tank can stealth and completely stall an entire team for 13+ seconds.

[AetherMcLoud]

No other tank can stealth and completely stall an entire team for 13+ seconds.

 

Of course they can. Other tanks have cooldowns too. Other tanks have EVEN BETTER COOLDOWNS.

[Slurmez]

No other tank can stealth and completely stall an entire team for 13+ seconds.

 

lol what? You are correct in that no other tank can stealth but every tank can stall a team for 13+ seconds

[JackMinn]

lol what? You are correct in that no other tank can stealth but every tank can stall a team for 13+ seconds

 

Huh? I missed the part where ANY class in this game can stall 6 players of equal gear for 13 seconds while also being immune to CC thus interrupting the objective cap. (Cant CC a assassin in stealth waiting to interrupt).

 

Also even if cooldowns could allow for this, which they cant, cool downs arent as readily available as stealth is. In fact if you wiped and need to stop objective cap its more than likely you already used your cool downs attempting to survive.

Edited March 27, 2012 by JackMinn

[Xinika]

Hahaha how on earth can I take this thread seriously when the OP bases his arguments off:

 

"I solo'd 2~3 bad players at a node, therefore this spec is overpowered"

 

God I wish this game had cross-server warzones.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Notannos
quote

[Izola]

This is a JUNK spec I'm forced to roll....I feel like a DK (Hero Class)!

 

This can't be working as intended. I go all DPS gear/mods/enhac and I survive like a Champ kill anything 1 v 1 exsept healers but they can't kill me either.

 

I miss my rogue man! I fig this class would play with some skill and instead it turns out to be a faceroll class a 4 year old could run.

 

But Bcuz of the survivability/utility/dps of the spec it is BY FAR the best Shadow spec.

 

I'm not saying nerf it but in 1.2 could we make it so DPS gear doesn't make this spec so OP. Like maybe 5% on Combat tech isn't enough. I know this won't work Bcuz ACTUAL tanks won't be able to do ANY Dam.

 

But something must Be done here, KC is not only a low skill cap OP class, There is no way it's working as intended.

 

MY Progect still hits like a truck, I still have Spinning strike that when crits hits most for 4k and Tele throw in Full DPS gear and PROC is insane!

 

There is nothing about this I like, I understand MOST like it but I'm from the school that High Skill cap = BEST CLASS not rollface keyboard DK style.

 

I'm sorry to all the folks that like this class/spec I am in no way picking on you, It's just LOW SKILL CAP classes are not for me!

 

BRING BACK INFIL SPEC BABY!

 

Xinika 4tw...She/he gave me this spec and like I said I mean no offense to anyone and this is just my opinion!

Edited March 27, 2012 by Izola

[AetherMcLoud]

Huh? I missed the part where ANY class in this game can stall 6 players of equal gear for 13 seconds while also being immune to CC thus interrupting the objective cap. (Cant CC a assassin in stealth waiting to interrupt).

 

Also even if cooldowns could allow for this, which they cant, cool downs arent as readily available as stealth is. In fact if you wiped and need to stop objective cap its more than likely you already used your cool downs attempting to survive.

 

LULWOT? Stalling 6 people for 13+ seconds WHILE IN STEALTH? That's simply not possible.

Also, you CAN CC an assassin in stealth. Ever heard of +stealth detection skills and the Stealth Scan ability? Probably not...

 

On Top of all that, you don't even need the +stealth abilities because TANK ASSASSIN DON'T SKILL +STEALTH.

 

But logical arguments are futile against such trolling power.

Edited March 27, 2012 by AetherMcLoud

[Xinika]

This is a JUNK spec I'm forced to roll....I feel like a DK (Hero Class)!

 

This can't be working as intended. I go all DPS gear/mods/enhac and I survive like a Champ kill anything 1 v 1 exsept healers but they can't kill me either.

 

I miss my rogue man! I fig this class would play with some skill and instead it turns out to be a faceroll class a 4 year old could run.

 

But Bcuz of the survivability/utility/dps of the spec it is BY FAR the best Shadow spec.

 

I'm not saying nerf it but in 1.2 could we make it so DPS gear doesn't make this spec so OP. Like maybe 5% on Combat tech isn't enough. I know this won't work Bcuz ACTUAL tanks won't be able to do ANY Dam.

 

But something must Be done here, KC is not only a low skill cap OP class, There is no way it's working as intended.

 

MY Progect still hits like a truck, I still have Spinning strike that when crits hits most for 4k and Tele throw in Full DPS gear and PROC is insane!

 

There is nothing about this I like, I understand MOST like it but I'm from the school that High Skill cap = BEST CLASS not rollface keyboard DK style.

 

I'm sorry to all the folks that like this class/spec I am in no way picking on you, It's just LOW SKILL CAP classes are not for me!

 

BRING BACK INFIL SPEC BABY!

 

Try 1v1ing someone in a ranked warzone, please.

 

I'll admit though. If KC gets nerfed (which I highly doubt it would) and the other 2 specs remain the same, I will lol so hard.

[Howbadisbad]

Try 1v1ing someone in a ranked warzone, please.

 

I'll admit though. If KC gets nerfed (which I highly doubt it would) and the other 2 specs remain the same, I will lol so hard.

 

Would still be stronger than Operatives.

[Izola]

Try 1v1ing someone in a ranked warzone, please.

 

I'll admit though. If KC gets nerfed (which I highly doubt it would) and the other 2 specs remain the same, I will lol so hard.

 

You didn't copy the LOVE....I gave you Props! You cut it off at the end!...lol

[JackMinn]

Hahaha how on earth can I take this thread seriously when the OP bases his arguments off:

 

"I solo'd 2~3 bad players at a node, therefore this spec is overpowered"

 

God I wish this game had cross-server warzones.

 

That wasnt even remotely what I said. Do you even read?

[JackMinn]

LULWOT? Stalling 6 people for 13+ seconds WHILE IN STEALTH? That's simply not possible.

Also, you CAN CC an assassin in stealth. Ever heard of +stealth detection skills and the Stealth Scan ability? Probably not...

 

On Top of all that, you don't even need the +stealth abilities because TANK ASSASSIN DON'T SKILL +STEALTH.

 

But logical arguments are futile against such trolling power.

 

Why is it not possible? 1 or more persons cap a node untill ~6 seconds in then you either single hit or use aoe kb based on the situation, now they need to spend 7+ seconds capping again. 7+6 is 13 seconds and that assumes the bear minimum time. Just cause you arent able to envision stalling with respect to the objective doesnt mean it aint possible. 13s is generally enough for the voidstar doors to open again allowing your entire team to return.

 

Yes you can blindly CC and hope to hit the player in stealth, but relying on a random factor is hardly relevant discussion for game balance is it?

 

In fact the very option of stealth forces 1 player in a voidstar to always have to defend a door which will serve as a large factor in actual ranked play when 1 man down actually matters.

 

Even if the stealth isnt in combat, its a very strong utility tool which seperates it from the other classes. When you combine this with the other utility, then also say thats its okay to deal "that damage" because others can, you are simply getting the best tools that every other class had at its disposal.

[AetherMcLoud]

Why is it not possible? 1 or more persons cap a node untill ~6 seconds in then you either single hit or use aoe kb based on the situation, now they need to spend 7+ seconds capping again. 7+6 is 13 seconds and that assumes the bear minimum time. Just cause you arent able to envision stalling with respect to the objective doesnt mean it aint possible. 13s is generally enough for the voidstar doors to open again allowing your entire team to return.

 

Yes you can blindly CC and hope to hit the player in stealth, but relying on a random factor is hardly relevant discussion for game balance is it?

 

In fact the very option of stealth forces 1 player in a voidstar to always have to defend a door which will serve as a large factor in actual ranked play when 1 man down actually matters.

 

Even if the stealth isnt in combat, its a very strong utility tool which seperates it from the other classes. When you combine this with the other utility, then also say thats its okay to deal "that damage" because others can, you are simply getting the best tools that every other class had at its disposal.

 

So your problem is stealth and not assassins. Operatives can do EVERYTHING YOU DESCRIBED HERE. They even have MUCH better CC in their AOE flashbang.

 

An operative can wait in stealth for 6 seconds, AOE Flashbang all the people for 8 seconds, and have them retap the objective for 7 seconds again. So 21 seconds. OMG?! And all those people did nothing to stop it? Not one used their CC breaker? Not one used stealthscan? They deserve to be stalled for 21 seconds.

 

So, all in all your crusade is against stealth, not tank assassins. You trying to get tank assassins nerfed in this thread is nothing else than hypocracy.

[JackMinn]

So your problem is stealth and not assassins. Operatives can do EVERYTHING YOU DESCRIBED HERE. They even have MUCH better CC in their AOE flashbang.

 

An operative can wait in stealth for 6 seconds, AOE Flashbang all the people for 8 seconds, and have them retap the objective for 7 seconds again. So 21 seconds. OMG?! And all those people did nothing to stop it? Not one used their CC breaker? Not one used stealthscan? They deserve to be stalled for 21 seconds.

 

So, all in all your crusade is against stealth, not tank assassins. You trying to get tank assassins nerfed in this thread is nothing else than hypocracy.

 

MY GOD. Everybody KEEPS missing the point.

- Stealth? but operatives can do it.

- High damage? but vanguards can do it with aoe(assassins can match in ST which is even stronger).

- Sprint? but guardians have leap.

- CC? But everybody has it why cant i have the most

- Self heal? but dps sages/sorcs have it.

 

YES if we compare everything to every other class than everybody else has some of it yes. But the point is the Assassins have it ALL. If you dont see this as a problem especially in ranked play where the top will consist of good players able to fully utilize all these aspects, then you are just blind to how game balance actually works.

Edited March 27, 2012 by JackMinn

[Ahhmyface]

MY GOD. Everybody KEEPS missing the point.

- Stealth? but operatives can do it.

- High damage? but vanguards can do it with aoe(assassins can match in ST which is even stronger).

- Sprint? but guardians have leap.

- CC? But everybody has it why cant i have the most

- Self heal? but dps sages/sorcs have it.

 

YES if we compare everything to every other class than everybody else has some of it yes. But the point is the Assassins have it ALL. If you dont see this as a problem especially in ranked play where the top will consist of good players able to fully utilize all these aspects, then you are just blind to how game balance actually works.

 

The assassin is a utility class. It is not good at doing anything in particular. It just has lots of tools. Get over it.

 

(im deception)

Edited March 27, 2012 by Ahhmyface

[JackMinn]

The assassin is a utility class. It is not good at doing anything in particular. It just has lots of tools. Get over it.

 

(im deception)

 

Yea and that is the final statement people respond with when they realize this. Except they are good at doing everything not that "they arent good at anything particular".

 

Proving either or is a bit hard to do but people already posted the Screenshots of high damage, high protection and high survivability so they clearly have those going for them. All that remains is debating utility which is what I am presenting in my argument.

 

Its not that they have everything mediocore, they have everything awesome. Get over it.

[Drunkenpig]

If all I wanted was warzones, battlefronts, huttball etc I'd play halo or one of the other online shooter games. I liked the concept of open world pvp. Never knowing when you might get ganked, getting friends to chase down the other side's gang. SVT in WoW back when WoW was new was a fun place to be. And the mass pvp fights up at the mill area. Then BFs came and screwed it up.

 

But unfortunately SWTOR is not for open world pvp. Even having a section on pvp for this game in the forums is kind of funny.

 

Dont you guys get sick of playing huttball for the 500th time?

Edited March 27, 2012 by Drunkenpig

[cycao]

Ah good ole darkness, jack of all trades and masters of none.

 

I am quite surprised by the number of replies it has got to be getting nerfed now since this is already past 60 pages.

[Faeldawn]

MY GOD. Everybody KEEPS missing the point.

- Stealth? but operatives can do it.

- High damage? but vanguards can do it with aoe(assassins can match in ST which is even stronger).

- Sprint? but guardians have leap.

- CC? But everybody has it why cant i have the most

- Self heal? but dps sages/sorcs have it.

 

YES if we compare everything to every other class than everybody else has some of it yes. But the point is the Assassins have it ALL. If you dont see this as a problem especially in ranked play where the top will consist of good players able to fully utilize all these aspects, then you are just blind to how game balance actually works.

 

Assassins don't have a self heal. They can spec reactive heals, but they are pretty naff.

 

Assassins get no spec heals, many other classes do and hybrid with that to become extremely difficult to kill.

 

Assassins don't get shields, other classes do but i assume you missed this out conveniently as well.

 

Assassins get almost no AoE abilities and no decent AoE damage, again, you conveniently miss this out as some classes have massive AoE DPS which Assassins/Shadows don't have.

 

I could keep on pointing out why you are wrong all day long but i really can't be bothered, Assassins/Shadows do not "have it all".

[jpgarnier]

It's not possible to nerf kinetic shadow because this spec doesn't need a nerf but a buff because the shadow tank is under the other. The problem that you have pointed out is the fact that kinetic can wear dps gear (that you call "hybrid"). But it's not a problem of shadow but simply one of the possibilities to optimise your character with your gameplay... and that because you play MMO. If you want to force the people to use specific gear you have to retire the gear with mod, soph etc... (that is the originality of swtor). Yes a shadow kinetic with dps gear can have a good survability and a correct dps (but less than dps class just for ex sentinell) but even like that, a shadow is under a sentinel or a guardian with dps gear.

So this post is useless only perhaps on the comments on the 2 other shadow spec, infil and balance. Indeed infiltration needs a up of survability. Infiltration is a cac spec...with light armor and even with the 30% armor buff, the survability in pvp is very very low...

Edited March 27, 2012 by jpgarnier