Gokkus Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Good question. Glad you asked. Here my short list. 1) Un-Star War-sy looking armor 2) Too linear world design 3) Too Themepark MMO design 4) Lack of armor customization at launch 5) On-rails space combat Up until now, BioWare has done nothing but brag about how great those features are, but are they that great? I don't think so. Well that sounds a lot like having to apologize for making a game that not everyone likes. As far as I know they did not break any promises related to the above bullet points. Not only are they improving most of the things you list but other people might actually like it this way. Personally I would be confused if they apologized. Edited March 23, 2012 by Gokkus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarikLaw Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Blizzard created a fun game because you could do more than just Raid, PvP, and Dailies. There is nothing "fun" to do in TOR unless all you like do is Raid, PvP, and Dailies. There is no fishing or fun activity that does not involve killing something. There are no fun seasonal events which introduce fun events and collectables. There is no reason to run around collecting gear because it looks good and you want to use it. There is no "HAHA, that is Luigi and Mario!" "LOL! That's Links Sword!!" "LOL look at how that mobs death animation" "LOL that trinket just turned you into a random creature". There is no "fun" in TOR, there is only Raiding, PvP, and Dailies (there would be instances but my server is so low population I can't even find a tank, healer, and DPS to group with). World of Warcraft got boring and old with the elitism from the player base. I got bored of WoW after 4 years, after the second month in TOR I've already gotten bored. Here's a little history lesson for you. When WoW first launched, Dailies didn't exist as they do now. Dailies back then were something you were forced to do to gain rep with one or more factions and nobody ever enjoyed doing it. PvP was also virtually non-existant apart from random world PvP and two battlegrounds, there was no arenas and no objective-based world PvP. Thus, by your definition, there was no fun in WoW for several years either as all there was to do end-game was raiding and very basic PvP and even then most people didn't raid because it required 39 other people to do. Blizzard created a fun game, sure, but they did so after 8 years of post-launch development. I played WoW back during Vanilla and if you think SWTOR is boring you should have played Vanilla WoW, where all of the end-game content (what little there was) was inaccessible to anyone who didn't "no life" the game and where leveling felt like a second job instead of being any variety of "fun." Just because you're not having fun (fun is subjective, by the way) doesn't mean that Bioware owes you an apology, it means that this (and probably most other MMOs) aren't right for you and you should try something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamae Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I browsed this thread and saw someone mention TOR and incredible amount of grinding. I had to post after reading that as it was very loltastic, I have played MMO since EQ2 came out, so a few years, it was common when that first came out for people to put groups together and grind heroic mobs( elites in TOR ) to lvl. I have not found TOR to be a huge grind myself, its not terribly original, aside from the storys and voice overs, and getting to 50 does not take to long, certainly far less time than it took me in EQ2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defiantlegacy Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I read this recently & I wondered about the massive number of complaints that SWTOR has suffered & then I tried to compare those numbers of complaints to the miniscule number of complaints Mass Effect 3 has had in comparison & i wondered why Ray would jump to defend Mass Effect 3 so quickly yet remain quiet on SWTOR. I mean really, weren't we complaining loudly enough about the quality of the endings of the 8, 8, 8 class stories here in SWTOR too? Do you all think that an apology is entirely unnecessary or not? What difference would an apology make? Game would still suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ha Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 Well that sounds a lot like having to apologize for making a game that not everyone likes. As far as I know they did not break any promises related to the above bullet points. Not only are they improving most of the things you list but other people might actually like it this way. Personally I would be confused if they apologized. Like I did say, apology not necessary, but it would've been appreciated just the same. It's just that pre release, it seemed that there was very little quality control on what Dev was being allowed to say what, lots of loose lips during that time saying stuff that comes off as complete & utter lies right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defiantlegacy Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Because we all know that wow had an appearance tab... oh wait no it didn't We all know that everyone went on there to fish and cook rather than pvp and raid... cmon now. Games have to move with the times to succeed. I'm tired of people going " WoW didn't start with an appearance tab or a LFG tool, so why should SWTOR? " It's like this, mobile phones 10 years ago didn't have apps, decent 3g or 4g internet connections, touchscreen interfaces, the ability to watch tv or make video calls. Those things were added in later and have become standard features. Try making a cell phone now with the same launch features as a 10 yr old cell phone, then use that line " but the most popular cell phone 10 yrs ago didn't have those features " and see how many you sell. Just because other games added bits in later, does not give BW a reason, or indeed the right, to launch a game without basically any of the standard features we are used to. I find the fact that they launched this way ( and the attitudes of those defending it ) disgraceful. Edited March 23, 2012 by defiantlegacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illgot Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Here's a little history lesson for you. blah blah blah, I can't comprehend any of those words I read after he wrote World of Warcraft or Blizzard! Wow, sorry, that's all I can say because you completely missed the whole point of any of my posts. Wow... Edited March 23, 2012 by illgot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gokkus Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Like I did say, apology not necessary, but it would've been appreciated just the same. It's just that pre release, it seemed that there was very little quality control on what Dev was being allowed to say what, lots of loose lips during that time saying stuff that comes off as complete & utter lies right now... I did not really notice that but I must admit not following everything that was going on back then. However, unless a lot of people are still bugged by this, I think bringing it up would be counterproductive. I find the fact that they launched this way ( and the attitudes of those defending it ) disgraceful. Maybe, but you seem hellbound on attacking those defenders and the game. You appear heavily biased yourself, no more than those you hate the attitude from. I mean, you think it should be illegal to say gw1 is garbage but saying SWTOR sucks is fine? Besides you have played this game quite extensively according to your other posts. If the game would be half as bad as you want people to believe, you would not be here still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janne_josefsson Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 no, an apology is not needed just quit the dismissive attitude Agree on that one, it seems OP didnt get the news about the classchain continuing in 1.2 . Awesome BH questline is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannomite Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) So far, I have no real complaints about any of the class stories. The Sith Warrior story rocked. The Smuggler story was fun. The Jedi Knight story started slow, but got epic. From the bits of the Consular story I experienced while questing, with a friend, it seems interesting enough. (I'd have played through more of them but waiting for 1.2) My complaint with the first bit of end game armor was that all 6 types of end game armor were recolours of eachother, and to make it worse, a lot of the AC subsets were near identical (A cowboy hat and a cape on a Han Solo archetype!?). They also really could have gone with more KOTOR 1/2 influence with the Knight/Consular armor. The leather jedi suits and the force user armors looked really cool. They could have used the mandalorian helmets from KOTOR 1/2 as well, and for the scoundrels there's all kinds of cool looking "tech" headgear (visors/bands/one eye visor-scanner) Really idc about apologies. I'd rather see improvements. Edited March 23, 2012 by dannomite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karudan Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Subjective opinion like everything in this thread. I enjoy the game and it was what I expected to be. Hence no apology is necessary from the Dev team. For the person who was complaining about not enough "easter egg" or fun things around the world. Pay attention to the various NPC banter across the worlds. Notice how only the light armor vendor on Hoth is shaking due to the cold. There are several small details placed around the planets that is amusing if one just enjoys the game rather than rushing to the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubernetic Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 B: If you think that someone has to know how to code an MMO to have an opinion on it then i have to urge you to rethink your logic. Oh sure, they can have opinions on the game. But without having experience coding an MMO (or any general software development project beyond some little school assignment), many of those opinions (and wishes to the contrary of what was provided) will be completely baseless and out of touch with reality. You might not know how things get triaged during development, for instance, when some parts become more difficult than other parts. Or you may not be familiar with general build vs. buy decisions. You might also have completely unrealistic expectations as to how quickly some things might be able to be fixed or changed. And you may not understand how a distributed development team can work on multiple things at once and still have that be the most efficient method for development. Do i need to know how to cook a 5 course gourmet meal to have an opinion on how it tastes? Nope. But you do need to have some knowledge about cooking and how foods and flavors work together to make your opinions on taste, or criticisms and wishes for different flavors, to have meaning and be realistic and achievable. Of course not, in the same vein we don't need to know how to code an MMO to have an opinion on whether it sucks or not. Nope. You're correct. It's just without that, your opinions won't mean much, and may even seem comical to those who know otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Don't care for an apology I just want them to start making a better SW MMO with: A world that feels alive Gear that don't look like clown fantasy Good character customization: gear dyes, appearance tabs, new tatoos, haricuts, makeup dyes... Multiplayer 3D space combat World PvP And before everything else: Stop butchering the lore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLonelyTusken Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Good question. Glad you asked. Here my short list. 1) Un-Star War-sy looking armor 2) Too linear world design 3) Too Themepark MMO design 4) Lack of armor customization at launch 5) On-rails space combat Up until now, BioWare has done nothing but brag about how great those features are, but are they that great? I don't think so. What were you disappointed by? Everything you stated was pretty much known before launch, except the armor, which gets updated every content patch (see WoW). I don't know what you mean about armor customization, you can be competitive with any looking gear you want thanks to mods, and new changes in 1.2 are coming very son that make it even better. The customer is always right but you are way to picky, maybe take a break until 1.2 and then try it out again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ha Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 What were you disappointed by? Everything you stated was pretty much known before launch, except the armor, which gets updated every content patch (see WoW). I don't know what you mean about armor customization, you can be competitive with any looking gear you want thanks to mods, and new changes in 1.2 are coming very son that make it even better. The customer is always right but you are way to picky, maybe take a break until 1.2 and then try it out again? I did thanks. Forum breaking it, while I wait to re-sub sometime in April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Nope. But you do need to have some knowledge about cooking and how foods and flavors work together to make your opinions on taste, or criticisms and wishes for different flavors, to have meaning and be realistic and achievable. If I may, the client who tasted something else he likes somewhere else doesn't need to know if it's achievable or realistic. He knows others done it. He likes it and well if he can get it somewhere else with the same or even lower price that's all he needs to know. Anyway he can and he will spend his money elsewhere and you can't criticize him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loanstarr Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Good question. Glad you asked. Here my short list. 1) Un-Star War-sy looking armor 2) Too linear world design 3) Too Themepark MMO design 4) Lack of armor customization at launch 5) On-rails space combat Up until now, BioWare has done nothing but brag about how great those features are, but are they that great? I don't think so. so you want the game producer to apologize to you because the game wasnt to your tastes? /facepalm yea i expect every producer of a product i buy to personally apologize if i dont like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazysam Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 No, SWTOR is more than perfect for a 3 months old game. If you can understand why it is one off the most complete, stable and ''bugless'' new game you should just quit playing MMO's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparklehorse Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Of course i expect an apology for giving us an entirely different game from what they've shown before the game is released but that is personal. I just hate the fact that my favorite game is very familiar to a well known formula that exists within the genre. Exactly what part of the game was different than what was advertised prior to release? They did not advertise a different game than what was delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 SWTOR is a good game. Really, it's absolutely a good game. But honestly, after all the media hype, and the fact that SW is the ultimate IP, many expected an "outstanding" game, something that sets new standards, a revolution, or at least evolution of the MMO GENRE. That simply did not happen. And this is the core problem. You can't just brag about the biggest budget, and the highest subscription numbers and just deliver a good game which is basically a WoW clone. There is no silver medal for "good", when it's about Star Wars. I would be happy if I could really love this game, but I just don't, and that is pretty sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stineo Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 The MMO genre is pretty much the only genre of gaming that 100% requires that you listen to all community feedback, and not have a "this is our game we know better than you" attitude. How long you been playing MMOs? If devs just listened to the whiners, that MMO would just go bust. I played MMOs over a decade and I have seen people QQ on all their forums about nerfs, or whatever and I hear this same vague posts. Same QQ different game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stineo Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 The game is doing fine there are no major issues that would require any kind of apologies from the dev's. The only complaining I have seen is on the general forums here. The class forums is all good constructive discussions. And seeing as the forums only represent about 5% of the player base, and the ones complaining are only about 1% of that, You can see my point. If you do a history of most of the QQers, you will see they just keep repeating the same vague arguements. They get away with it because it's in the general section so they can be vague and general as they can be. Like saying the game sucks, the graphics sucks, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I read this recently & I wondered about the massive number of complaints that SWTOR has suffered & then I tried to compare those numbers of complaints to the miniscule number of complaints Mass Effect 3 has had in comparison & i wondered why Ray would jump to defend Mass Effect 3 so quickly yet remain quiet on SWTOR. I mean really, weren't we complaining loudly enough about the quality of the endings of the 8, 8, 8 class stories here in SWTOR too? Do you all think that an apology is entirely unnecessary or not? You would make up just about anything to QQ about TOR. Mass Effect 3 has sold at least a million more copies than TOR. How do you get that the number of complaints is miniscule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Good question. Glad you asked. Here my short list. 1) Un-Star War-sy looking armor 2) Too linear world design 3) Too Themepark MMO design 4) Lack of armor customization at launch 5) On-rails space combat Up until now, BioWare has done nothing but brag about how great those features are, but are they that great? I don't think so. They owe you an apology because you don't like the features? You really don't think you are that important do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ha Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) You would make up just about anything to QQ about TOR. Mass Effect 3 has sold at least a million more copies than TOR. How do you get that the number of complaints is miniscule? Dude, lemme apologise to you, maybe you'll feel better. I made a mistake regarding the comparison of ME3's sales numbers to TOR's that I'd further elaborated on later in this thread when some other helpful forum poster pointed it out to me. My bad, bro. Now I understand why Ray jumped up to defend ME3 so quickly, money like that demanded it. I'm sorry. I don't play any BioWare games other than SWTOR so I'm not privy to BW insider info. See. Apologies are simple man. Anyone can do them. Edited March 23, 2012 by Tricky-Ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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